How many people here have read the FSOG trilogy? I have and I'm very opposed to it. Christian Grey shows all the signs of an extremely abusive man and for a book that's meant to be "soft core kinky erotica" it's very repetitive and even less kinky.
Are we soon going to see women saying "But I thought I could fix him like Ana fixed Christian! I didn't realise that being a tease and pushing him too far could land me in hospital!"
I got it free (as one does) because I thought 'I could do that' and make some money. The fact is I couldn't. After reading a couple of random paragraphs I felt unwell. There was no sex involved. I imagine some happened somewhere but I didn't have the emotional resources needed to reach it.
I would like to give you some examples of appalling writing but I seem to have deleted it.
More than the abusive relationships that may increase because some are willing to let fantasy invade reality, I can imagine an explosion of imitators. Erotic literature is nothing new. Poorly written erotic literature is also nothing new. Erotica finding its way into the grocery store check out, however, is rather new and a little troubling.
Perhaps it is an opportunity for some enterprising soul to write something better crafted and more sensual - without the dysfunctional co-dependency.
If they have a profit motive, a strong alpha male is their best bet. I don't read or write them, but I know they "dominate" the genre. People want to read what they want to read.
It's possible to be dominant without being abusive.
The fantasy includes acts that would in reality be considered abusive. But women who like abusive fantasies have been found to actually have higher self-esteem and have less shame about sex and sexual fantasies (e.g. http://www.springerlink.com/content/n577453510358460/ )
It's just a fantasy and they have secure separation between fantasy and reality.
The movie is even worse. The book was bad but the film....despicable.
Can you say what you found objectively despicable, because I do not see it. i see a lot of things I would not want to do or view, but if others enjoy it I sure don't see any harm in it.
Have read the first book and I agree that to think that abuse is right, is just so wrong on so many levels...and sending a message like this that it is Ok I feel is such a worry...
I haven't read it but it's about kinky or bondage sex I think?
So it seems weird that Tesco - a UK supermarket - have it in prime retail position as customers come through the doors.
Pornography and groceries?
Was there ever a point when someone thought - we don't HAVE to make money out of every bit of sordid crap possible?
I haven't read it, but here's an amusing review complete with gifs:
I have to say that based on this, I definitely won't be spending any actual money in order to read FSOG.
I've not read it, but that review is hilarious
Have read this one before and think it's AWESOME!
No, thanks. I don't see what the big deal is about the book. I don't care for the characters, and I don't want to get hooked into this crap like a lot of people have. Spare me! I do have two sets of cuffs from my former work if you want to borrow them (wink, wink).
Here is another great review of the book
http://www.sponsoredlady.com/product-re … ty-shades/
Getting back to the serious point posed by the OP: I'm also very "anti" anything which promotes the idea that it's possible for women to "change" an abusive man. It's one of those destructive relationship memes that should really have died a death by now.
From what I understand the book is a very BDSM book, like 'The story of O' or the adult Sleeping Beauty trilogy (The Claiming of Sleeping BEauty, Beauty's Punishment, Beauty's Release). I think the point with these books is that they are fantasy, that the human body could not actually endure the various activities engaged in by the characters of these books.
I think the real issue is, is BDSM (and BDSM fantasies) wrong or dangerous?
Not speaking from actual personal experience, but I don't think it needs to be dangerous and I certainly don't think that fantasising about it is morally wrong. And I don't think that people who practise BDSM will necessarily have an abuser/abusee relationship outside the bedroom. (Maybe they're actually less likely to have such a relationship than people with a "normal" sex life - I dunno.)
My personal opinion is that something like BDSM is fine so long as we are talking consenting adults. Long before I heard of the term BDSM I read a book, 'Looking For Mr. Goodbar' where the lead woman has a number of very dangerous sexual encounters with strangers (I think culminating in her being murdered). When I then heard of BDSM I immediately thought, a person similar to the character in LFMG would be better off with it, as a safe way to explore those sexual fantasies and urges. Of course I guess you could say, is it healthy to explore our sexual fantasies and urges or should we learn to control them? (I don't think so but I know that some definitions of morality would suggest you should control your urges)
I have nothing against BDSM - I don't mind a bit of that kind of thing myself.
The problem is that this book portrays abuse in the guise of BDSM - throughout the book Christian attempts to force Ana into BDSM, but as a naive virgin, she keeps trying to get "vanilla sex". Although she tries some of his BDSM practices, she never fully consents to a BDSM relationship, is always fighting it and even goes so far to leave him when she discovers what it's really like.
You may find this article, saying how FSOG gives BDSM a bad name, interesting:
http://m.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and … 21rnq.html
You might find this article interesting...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kayt-suke … 54310.html
"50 Shades Of Grey (Matter): How Science Is Defying BDSM Stereotypes"
I once studied the French Enlightenment (just as an evening class) and managed to immerse myself in the bright, clear world of reason for a while. Then I noticed a De Sade reader in the college library, (similar period) and thought I would take it out of interest. It really was a revelation. None of that 'reason' nonsense in De Sade. Just the the relentless pursuit of selfish, obscure and completely unreasonable appetites written with gusto. A world view all to itself.
I don't think you could have Freud without De Sade or Film Noir without Freud and perhaps even something as evil as games theory (stretching it a bit).
Anyway, porn has its place in history but FSOG is a sad testament to many very ordinary people's desires to give up their lost lives to the first narcissistic, megalomaniacal, alpha male (or female), who happens along.
Romance novels make me gag, and I find this book as an extension of them. Here you have this Man's Man or the Unreachable Man. The Older, Experienced Man. But the heroine, with her pure love, will change him. She will die trying to change him because this is her focus in life. This so-called man. And they live happily ever after once he changes and sees things her way. Oh, pullllease. Since when can you change a man who is abusive. Or is an addict? Or is still devoted to his mama? Why would a woman even try at all? At the same time, you have bestseller because people still buy into the idea. Been there, done that because I was inexperienced and young and dumb. Tell me where this book is doing women any favors?
I have been wondering about the raves this series is getting. I almost picked up the books in the store. But it sounds weird to me. Women always think they can change men, but they can't. And from what I hear, it's kinky in an abusive way.
Clearly the book is crap (although I have to admit that I have not read it) but there is some very clever marketing going on here. Is it poorly written and has abusive undertones for a purpose? If it was not poorly written and did not have abusive undertones throughout the novel would we even be talking about it? I doubt it. Are we not as guilty for promoting the book as the women who think it's a great read and a bit horny?
I'd agree... except for the fact that it's been so well promoted that pretty much everyone knows about it anyway. So the best I can do is, in my tiny way, try and help more women realise it's not a book to be aspired to, and there are far better pieces of erotic fiction out there.
I know, I'm a bit sick of hearing about it on the radio. It sounds a bit Mills and Boom but with fists. I do, however, think that the more we discuss it the more we promote that type of garbage. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for horny literature- but not combined with abuse.
It was originally written as a Twilight fan fiction... so it wasn't intended for any purpose other than a small audience, originally.
Then, that's even more worrying. The readers are promoting. And whilst that's often a good thing it makes me ponder on the readership and our collective values as women.
Yep. I think the biggest issue with abuse is that it's never black and white. A woman would not just start dating a man who is abusive... it starts out nice and happy, and once they're attached, then the abuse starts. And the woman starts making excuses for it, because she knows the man isn't all bad.
Indeed, a whole load of grooming before hand. Abusive men select their victims, and they are rarely feisty, confident women. Although I'm not saying that confident women cannot end up in abusive relationships, but I am saying that a woman who is too challenging, too independent, can also be too much hassle. Easier to label her a dyke, or damaged. Better than facing up to their own flaws.
Yep. IMO, the character (Ana), although Naive and a virgin, is far from the normal abuse victim. And her best friend is even more willing to stand up and say Christian is abusive... then suddenly the author makes the best friend "understand" and suddenly it's all good.
I read the book and I still don't get the hype. Horribly written, ridiculous story line, and now I'm hearing more and more about how they're going to make it into a movie. Makes my head hurt.
Why is it okay to have the shelves full of people who commit murder (often as the hero) but out poor little brains cant cope with some spanking? It's fiction. Adult readers know the difference between fiction and reality.
Have you read it?
IMO it's not sexually abusive. It's mentally and emotionally abusive. Christian shows all the signs of a highly abusive male - controllling her friends, clothes, even buying her workplace. Mood swings. Abusive childhood (oh but wait, that excuses him being abusive!)
It's fiction. With that said, it's FICTION! Anyone stupid enough to live their lives by fiction had problems long before they read the book. This is no different than porn that shows women doing things that most women don't do. If a man lives his life waiting on a woman who is like that, then so be it. To each their own.
Books change the world, how we see it, and our culture.
That, in my opinion is sad. Unless of course those books are fact based.
Why is it sad? You don't like what the Bible, To Kill a Mockingbird, 1984, Atlas Shrugged and the like have done to the world?
Recognizing a good book is one thing. Allowing it to shape you into something such as a woman who makes herself miserable with men is ignorant. Allowing any book to over come our common sense, and allowing it to mold us or our society into something negative is the sad part.
I made the mistake of doing an online search for info on the book after hearing it was a best seller and (I must have been on a desert island or something) and aside from the pathetic writing, the brief paragraphs I saw were tasteless. I guess it wasn't that big of a mistake to search for it online - I could have accidentally bought it, thinking that if it was a best-seller, it would have at least some redeeming qualities.
People have fantasies. This is a popular fantasy. Women are not preschoolers who need to be sheltered from exploring fantasies. They know it is not real life.
A memorable quote from Men In Black sums up my feelings on human intelligence.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow. "
I'm not saying they are smart, just that they are not delusional. Women have fantasies, domination a popular is one and has been for the many decades such things were studied. FSOG is no more or less of a bad influence on culture than rock and roll, miniskirts or the invention if the printing press. There is, quite frankly, nothing new in this book. Pick up pretty much any erotic romance and you have a 30% or higher chance of finding Maledom with a wounded warrior trope. Its so banal as to be boring. This trope has dominated erotic romance for a hundred years ad yet women are more liberated and independent then ever. So liberated that they can buy any sexy book they want and read it on the train. As it should be.
After reading the reviews I have one thing to say...
The safety word is overrated....
I read all 3 a while ago. The books totally delivered on the promise and for that the author cannot be faulted. After all, when I buy eggs I’m not kidding myself its caviar inside the carton! Having read Twilight, and knowing that 50 Shades originated as Twilight FF, I was still disappointed that these books followed the model of writing a book in the 1st person from the perspective of the dullest, stupidest, and most vacuous character. I think this is a HUGE mistake for any author unless the POV consistently stays within the scenes with the most interesting characters/action/conflict. In other words, it got very tedious when it was only Ana and her friends. Plus, Ana’s actions either lacked logic or smacked of melodrama and I kept being jolting out of the story as a result. Still – it’s the Twilight model... so to be expected. Without a doubt Grey was the protagonist of the books and I wish the author had the guts to give the entire story from his point of view. I’m not convinced she had the skills or knowledge to do it though. But it would have been a better book had she pulled it off. Structural criticisms aside, I really enjoyed Grey’s progression and the difficulties he experienced with making what was a significant (life altering) change for himself. There was plenty of tension in his scenes and that's what makes this book a page turner and a huge seller. Aspects of Ana’s character grated on me throughout... but she was useful and served her story purpose well. I fundamentally HATE it when authors gloss over loss of virginity (especially the way it was presented here) and make it merely a trigger for Suddenly Acquired Sexual Dexterity – Best Lover Ever. That sends a wrong message for sure and it sullied this book. Ana should have been older and more experienced in order to carry the weight of the protag's backstory and sexual proclivities. As an aside, I generally hate it when female characters are ‘forced’ by the plot to relinquish their real lives for the sake of the coupling aspect of the story... but could understand it here given Grey’s need for control.
For those who would rather watch than read:
FSoG read out in a voice that the author probably didn't intend (NSFW!). Less than two minutes long, so a short 'n' sweet nugget of hilarity.
@know one: I *hate* when a book's main character is vacuous or stupid. I want to identify with a book's protagonist - not be bored by them. Similarly, it doesn't work for me when the main character isn't likeable. Candace Bushnell's characters are a case in point, which is a shame because otherwise she writes beautifully.
I couldn't agree more. I don't have to like their beginning point but I do have to admire their attempts to change... and the motivation for action has to be logical and the action and emotion has to be appropriate. I don't go for melodrama! It comes down to whether they make me care for them or not... whether they seem real and whether their journey touches me. If they make me care I can forgive almost any bad writing :-) In fact, I'd rather have crap writing with a great and worthy character than the most elegant and praise-worthy prose without.
I've never read a Candace Bushnell book because I so disliked Carrie Bradshaw in the series. Loved the support characters though! In the end 3 out of 4 made me cry :-)
Same old game of "I can fix him , this broken man " , a reflection of the reality or the precurser to an abusive relationship ? A book is just a book , but what does it promote in your youth [your own kids ]. Or in your own immaturity of young adulthood ?...... It promotes single moms raising troubled children
while daddy is out dominating a younger girl friend . Yes...I know it's just a book ! But whats the messege ! How do our youth interpret it ? Its all just Okay though huh?
I honestly do think it is okay. What about it isn't okay? Agreeing to do spanky stuff? Sucking up to a guy for his money and looks... and because you love him? Compared to 95% of fiction out there these are practically virtues. People are hating on that instead for explicit serial killer stories, torture porn etc for only one reason I can see--they don't agree with stories with a sexual focus. Or in the case of some feminists they don't agree a woman has the right to take a subordinate role if that makes her happy. One that, by my understanding of the book, is not abusive. Sexual subordination is the number one fantasy of heterosexual females. If they want to read about it, Lord, who cares. If they want to actually do it, ditto.
I get it. I really do, but let's put aside the whole "two consenting adults in a relationship" thing and just focus on this story, of which I have not read or seen, only heard a bit about. Would you want your daughter or son involved in the kind of relationship described in this story? I realize most adult children/parents do not discuss their sex life, but if you knew... would you want that for him/her? (Just curious.)
I read a lot, and back when everyone was constantly talking about this book, finally gave in and read the trilogy. Firstly, it was in a category I like to call "So bad it's good." It was so poorly written that it made me laugh.
I now know much more about Dominants and Submissives than I ever wanted to. And there was way too much sex, or whatever that was, in the books. At least 3/4 of those scenes didn't need to be in there. After one or two, you get the idea.
People who consent to that kind of sex life say it was not an accurate portrayal of it, though I don't want to know anymore, heard enough, thank you.
Secondly, Ana was a virgin who was never sexually attracted to anyone before, I wonder how she managed to stay that way until after college graduation. So Christian was thrown into a situation he never was in either. He couldn't keep away from Ana, he was attracted to her, and getting bored with his kinky lifestyle. Nor could he indulge in his usual sex practices with her, because of her inexperience. And the first time she finally tells him to show her how bad it could hurt, she leaves him. She walks right out. This is important, I am an ardent feminist who came of age in the 70's.
When they get back together, it's on Ana's terms, a regular relationship, though the sex stuff was still too rough for my taste.
Thirdly, nobody is talking about the abused young boy Christian was. His Mother was a prostitute, and he was neglected by her and abused and constantly burned by her pimp, to the point he won't allow anyone to touch him above the waist. Then he was adopted by a wealthy family, and a rich, bored, trophy wife who was a friend of his Mother's introduced him to that lifestyle, or sex style, or whatever you call it. Of course, Mom never knew, the family thought he was gay, since he was never seen with any of his submissives. Who wants to talk to their adult children about their sex lives? I've had several Mother/Son sex talks, and they are mortifying, though necessary when they are young. But I digress from Christian Grey. So he's very messed up, doesn't sleep all night because he has nightmares about his abuse and cries out, and doesn't want anyone to hear him. He regularly sees a psychiatrist. So does Ana when she decides to marry him.
So for the record, they both rescue each other. Is the story still ridiculous, raunchy and poorly written? Yes. But they are making movies out of the other two books as well, so the author and movie producers must be laughing all the way to the bank. Also, to get the movies made, thankfully they had to take most of the sex scenes out, at least in the US, or they would have been rated X, I presume.
IMHO, growing up when I did, we women wanted "sensitive men." And we got them. Our role models as capable women who could take care of themselves were pretty well defined. But men's roles were not. I don't think men know what women want, and maybe we don't know exactly what we want from them either, except to read our minds. We don't want to get hurt or beat up, and most want to make love, not have kinky sex. But I think women are drawn to Christian's character, because he can make a decision. He doesn't whine, "What are we having for dinner?" He makes a reservation. He makes plans. He does his fair share. He takes control of a lot of things in the relationship besides sex, so Ana doesn't have to plan every social event, pay all the bills, cook every night when she gets home from work. He wants her to have a good quality of life in a lot of ways, he wants to take care of her, and of course, is rich enough so she has people helping her out left and right. So maybe Ana is a bit of a gold digger too, she keeps complaining how hard it is to get used to being so rich. I'm sure it's just awful.
So that's my take on it all. It's only a trilogy of books, and a trilogy of movies. I don't want to see the rest. Oh, one more thing. Dakota Johnson was so frightfully thin, you could count every rib on her. She's a very poor role model for women's bodies, but then whatever woman played this part would never be considered a role model anyway.
Thanks for the explanation, Jean.
I have no interest in reading the books or seeing the movies but I'm happy to now have an idea of what all the fuss is about.
Another issue is that young men who see this movie may be confused and think women want to be treated like that. So I am not defending this badly told tale. But l do want people to know that even in a fake story, it takes two. I'm a romantic and think sex should be the highest expression of love. Don't waste your time with this nonsense.
Since I've been living alone I have time to kill
Perhaps you might fill some time writing a novel, Jean. Try starting with a conversation between two people ... and see where your mind wanders.
My wife talks extensively on this book. Not in a good light either. She fully believes the book details an abusive relationship that does little to truly honor women or show them as being on equal footing. In my personal opinion and from what I've read of it, she is correct. We believe in the biblical concept of submission. This does not mean I have the right to manipulate her, control her, be sexually abusive to her or anything Christian does in the book. It outlines roles of a marriage as the man being the head of the family, but the Bible also outlines that a marriage is a union of two people becoming one. If my wife was suppose to be 'under' me, then the concept of oneness would be completely lost. She is my partner in everything I do, we are responsible for each other and ultimately I'm responsible for my family. The word submission in the Bible is better outlined as respectful. Wives be respectful of your husbands (cause that is how men psychologically experience love) and for husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Christ's love was pure, holy, kind, gentle, protective, powerful and ultimately one of servitude and sacrifice. When understanding the context of a biblical marriage the man's duty to love his wife is one that actually puts him at his wife's services. Because true leadership comes from true servitude.
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