Captain America's new enemy....CONSERVATIVE AMERICA!!!

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  1. profile image0
    Stevennix2001posted 8 years ago

    For those of you who don't read comics, last year the original Captain America (aka Steve Rogers) was replaced by his sidekick Sam Wilson aka The Falcon, who has become the new Captain America for Marvel Comics.  For those of you who don't know who Falcon is, but you've seen Marvel movies like "Avengers" and etc., then you might remember Falcon if you've seen such films like "Captain America:  The Winter Soldier" or "Ant-Man."  He's basically the black guy with mechanical wings.  Moving on.  Falcon has been the new Captain America for awhile now in the comic books (not the movies obviously), and he has a new enemy.

    According to Fox News, it looks like the head of the Serpent Society is allegedly a conservative that has many misgivings about the unlimited access of illegal immigration in this country, but the new Captain America isn't having it, as he rebels against the Serpent society.  Needless to say, it's quite a news story.   And while I do have a lot of thoughts on this issue, I probably won't say them because I know over half of you wouldn't want my opinions on it anyway. 

    However, I do think it's silly that Fox News does think that politics shouldn't be in comic books after this came out, but the only problem is Captain America has always dealt with politics throughout his history.  Seriously, with a name like "CAPTAIN AMERICA", and the fact that he's basically a walking billboard of the American flag for f**k's sakes, kind of makes it hard not to have politics play some sort of role into his stories.  Just saying. 

    Anyways, what are your thoughts about this?  Do you agree with Fox News that Captain America shouldn't be dealing with politics in his own comic book series?   Do you think Captain America should be standing on the side of pro immigration?  Or do you think Captain America should be standing by conservatives and protecting our borders from illegal immigrants?  Please discuss.

    1. Credence2 profile image78
      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe, the comix should be apolitical. We cheered on Superman, Spiderman etc for generic acts of daring do. We spoil our comic book heroes by making them political, from either side.

      I have been hearing a little undercurrent from the radical right about boycott of the latest Star Wars film because they claim that whites are being assualted by not playing the leading roles in the film. There is simply too much diversity, I guess. They see the film itself as a 'political statement' and I disagree.

      I hate to see our fantasy heroes mired in the muck of our current political squabbles and controversies.

      1. profile image0
        Stevennix2001posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Well the problem with that is that Captain America has always dealt with politics in his stories. Hell, he's  walking billboard of the American flag for f**'s sakes.  In fact, one of his earlier issues showed him on the cover punching Adolf Hitler right in the face.  If that doesn't scream politics playing a part in his earlier stories, then I don't know what does. 

        The reality is Captain America has always dealt with politics in his stories, so it's hard to runaway from that.  To take politics out of it would be like trying to write an x-men comic without ever referencing the fact that it's something of allegory for racism and prejudices in society.  You can't really get around that.  I think the main issue with some people being "offended" by this new captain america issue is that he's not standing for the point of view that they want; hence they're seeing it as a bad thing.  Hell, I'm willing to bet if it had been an issue about Captain America being on the side of the radical right wing, then chances are they'd be praising Marvel for getting politics involved in it's issues.  However, since it shows a political view they're against, then it automatically makes them root against it like it's a bad thing, while claiming it's something new when it's not.

        Captain America has always had politics play a part in some of his stories. Hell, it's in part of his name. Captain America.  Get it?

        As for the Star Wars thing, I just found out about that too today, and honestly I think it's just sad.  Granted, it's not going to affect me because I just want to see a good movie.  However, if people are seriously boycotting it for the reason you just stated, then I think that speaks to how sad our  society is these days.  Seriously, if you look at most movies in Hollywood, then you'll notice that most of them predominanently feature white male leads.  You rarely ever see minorities take on lead roles in big budget blockbusters, so it's astounding to me how people can get so upset over this.

        Hell, it almost makes me wonder how well "Black Panther" will do once Marvel Studios releases it on the big screen, as that features a black superhero from Africa.

        1. Live to Learn profile image60
          Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          If conservatives are whining about less whites in Star Wars, it may simply be an asinine reaction (tit for tat) to all of the belly aching done whenever a movie comes out these days. I was shocked at the cast in Noah. I felt the eyebrows raised were justified. I heard Moses also had a problem with too many light skin tones. Now my son tells me he thinks Pan got panned because it cast a white girl as the Indian princess. It was already getting a little childish before this Star Wars thing.

          As to Captain America. I agree with Credence. Current politics isn't what I'd like to see them tackling in a fantasy film. I get why they would. Hope to influence a new generation; taint one side of the debate with a dark and sinister brush. However, we aren't even sure where the correct course of action lies on this problem. I don't know that we should villainize any side or faction through fantasy.

          1. profile image0
            Stevennix2001posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            But the thing that both you and Credence are missing though is that Captain America's character was founded on the ideals of America, which does relate to real world politics to an extent.  You can clearly see that from Cap's earlier issue where he's shown on the cover punching Adolf  Hitler in the face.  Therefore, it's kind of hard to really write a Captain America story, without ever referencing politics at some basic level.

            It would be the same story for the "X-Men" and "Captain Planet."  Stan Lee even said this himself that the X-Men have always been something of allegory for racism, so that's kind of become part of their essential elements that gives the comic it's own identity. If you take that away from the x-men, then they're not the x-men anymore.

            Same thing with Captain Planet.  he was created by Ted Turner to be something of a symbol for environmental awareness.  If we were do what you and Credence are suggesting, then how the hell do you write anymore stories for Captain Planet?  Take in mind, some politicians don't believe in the whole global warming bit, so it would be kind of hard to do a captain planet story arc that didn't deal with politics considering environmental issues are a political topic; hence the only thing you could do with him is maybe kill him, or write him out of the story completely.

            I think the problem is that our society needs to grow up and stop taking things so personal.  Although I agree with a lot of the critics that casting a white girl to play Tiger Lili in Pan was ignorant and racist white washing on WB's part (although I do love me some Rooney Mara), I just found the casting to be in bad taste because one of the key essential elements that makes Tiger Lily who she is is the fact that she's an indian princess in neverland.  Casting an obvious white girl dressed in makeup doesn't help that.  Although to be fair, the movie didn't suck because of her, as there were bigger reasons why the movie sucked, which mostly goes towards the writing than anything else; along with the cheesy a** acting from some of the characters; namely the guy who played Hook and Mr. Smith.

            Having said all that though, there have been times when they changed the ethnicity of characters, and I didn't really care because their race really wasn't a part of who they were as characters anyway.  Take Johnny Storm in this year's fantastic four.  I was actually one of the few people that didn't mind the change to his race considering a) he's not an iconic character, and b) because being white isn't exactly key essential element to who Johnny Storm is in the Fantastic Four, so I didn't care about that. 

            As far as politics playing a part in movies, I'm guessing you probably didn't like the original star wars trilogy either huh?  You are aware that movie series featured a rebellion fighting back against an evil empire right?   And if you watch the star wars prequels, there were a lot of politics involved in those films to set up the original trilogy.

            And if you want to go back even further, George Reeve's original superman was once featured in a film called "Superman and the Mole Men."  In that movie, it served of an allegory for racism, where Superman was against bigotry at at the time, even though the film came out in 1951, where racism was more openly accepted.  Are you saying that you wouldn't want a superman film where he's not standing up for the little guy that's being persecuted against just because you don't want politics to be in his stories?

            Or what about Captain America Winter Soldier?  That film makes a few light references to some real world events like terrorism, and fear mongering.  Are you saying that Captain America The Winter Soldier never should've been made?  the reality is films are an art form, and I think it would be a huge mistake to exclude politics out of fantasy stories because then it looks like your promoting censorship.

            You're right. Maybe it might offend some people, as I'm sure some people were probably offended by Superman taking a stance against racism and bigotry back in 1951.  However, if you're going to worry all the time about OFFENDING people, then you should be petitioning Hollywood to stop making holiday films that reference any holiday altogether, as that might offend someone.  While we're at it, we should end all holiday specials on TV too like the Charlie Brown crap because it might offend people.

            Hell, let's go even further. Maybe Brokeback Mountain should be banned because not everyone likes the concept of gay people being together, so we can't afford to offend people right?  Or wait a minute, what about porn?  Oh my god.  Those are sexually offensive towards women, so let's take those down too. 

            Seriously, it's getting to the point that if you even disagree with someone these days that it's construed as offensive...

        2. Credence2 profile image78
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I hear you Stevennix, but is an error not to allow for a changing period of time. There is no question that Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich was the very antithesis of America and what she was supposed to represent especially during a time (early 1940’s) when we were much more cohesive as a society and there was virtually no one living here that thought (tit for tat) that fascism needed to be accommodated, as the ‘other side’. Our superheroes reflected social mores and universally held beliefs of the time. That is not so clear cut now. What is the “American Way”? Should our superheroes extoll the virtues of capitalism, social darwinism or should they wage war against the 1 percent, embrace multiculturalism or see a trend toward socialism as a virtue? While I have never been a fan of conservative ideals and right wing politics in this society, can I really say that they are not a part of it? I have always been a Superman freak, the George Reeves character during the 1950’s was much different from the Christopher Reeve character in the 1970’s.

 … n-of-Steel

          There needs to remain a certain amount of fun in our characters and it is hard for them to do that if they are reduced to mere mortals fighting over our ever changing mundane political issues. I have plenty to fight over everyday, I don’t need it in my comic books. In this realm, apolitical is good. It was just like the ‘Looney Tunes’ when we could laugh together and not at anyone else’s expense. There were no coyotes that complained about offensive content.  The cartoons with the big black Samboes were quietly moved to back of the shelf as offensive today, but not during the late thirties and forties, when they were made.

          I am not whining about the direction things are going on principle and am aware that our heightened political awareness and contention are going to be reflected in our comic book heroes. I accept that reality, but it would be nice if we all could find a little cohesion in our fantasy world
          Fortunately, the Star Wars thing is just a rumble and not a roar.
          This is a great thread thanks for the idea.

      2. Aime F profile image70
        Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        LOL @ at the bit about Star Wars!  Really?

        And they like to say liberals are easily offended.... big_smile

        1. Credence2 profile image78
          Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

          It is true, but the group complaining is very small and really not worthy of any attention. Lets hope that it does not grow and they bring negative attention to themselves, Star Wars and the country as a whole.

  2. profile image0
    Bronwyn Joy Ellioposted 8 years ago

    Less whites in Star Wars? What about all of those Storm Troopers tongue

  3. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

    I believe we've just had a revelation , it's always been well known , Liberals in America  have a real problem with  actual reality .   Yet you have done us all a favor by revealing and reminding us that these same liberals have this  very real perception problem !   Everything political to liberals  shows a direct correlation between comic books  -and reality .  No wonder the obvious rose colored approach to all things political. To all solutions cultural or social .

    Liberals really need to put the comics away , it's almost too late for our country but they could still save their children's future !

    1. profile image0
      Stevennix2001posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Wow, I never thought I'd see  a forum discussion involving politics where both sides seem to be in agreement.  I guess you all would prefer if politics stayed out of comics eh?

  4. profile image0
    Stevennix2001posted 8 years ago

    Well let me ask you all this.  If you were writing the stories for Captain America, then who would you have him fight against that's still in the spirit of his character representing America itself that both liberals and conservatives can get behind?

    1. profile image0
      ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      How about the many enemies of today's America , they exist today as they always have  . ISIL , ISIS ,  The Chinese government ,  "Russia " ,  North Korea ,    or at least  the remnants of communist  eastern Europe  .

      There are also many elements of hatred against America today ,  right here in our southern hemisphere .       As much as we today like to politically kiss the arse of the Hispanic countries ;  They have no great love for "white " America !


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