Cuba's quality of life ranking vs the US's

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   Josakposted 12 years ago

   According to compiled bank of national quality of life rankings for 2011 based on a variety of criterion the US sits at #31 in the quality of life index, while Cuba sits at a rapidly rising 53 (Up from an estimated bottom 20 of about 150 before the revolution) this despite the fact that one of the criterion for the index is democracy (Where Cuba sits very low) what it means is in our lifespans we may see a Cuba with a better quality of life than the USA. This was just startling to me, what do you think?
   
   http://nationranking.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/2011-qli/

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      rcrumpleposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In looking at all areas of determination, Cuba very well may become a leader.  In the area of Education, Cuba is 5th, the USA 20th.  This speaks for the future.  Our "No child left behind" has become a "No child gets ahead", and is being demonstrated in these rankings.  Individual wealth is still almost 30 slots higher for the USA, and, as you state, Democracy isn't even close, but is is somewhat surprising to see the affects of too much government as the USA has fallen to #15 in the world.  Peace is almost a tie.  However, as far as, protecting the environment, Cuba is leagues ahead ranked at #7, and the USA at #52.  Let's look at it this way, With better educated adults, Industry may be forthcoming.  If so, the individual wealth could increase substantially.  As time goes on and the government becomes more trade oriented, a more democratic government could occur with progressive reforms.  Industry could bring environmental scores down, but still, the path could be running side by side before we know it.  Scary, isn't it, that the tweaking this country needs is taking place 30 miles south of Florida.  Then, again, Cuba did empty its jails to us, so we should be grateful.  C'est le vie!

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      Onusonusposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think you watched Michael Moor's "sicko" and believed it.

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         Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Is that the one about healthcare? I don't watch Moore (there is no educational value) but I have lived in Cuba... and the healthcare success there has been complimented by everyone from the WHO to Kofi Annan.

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      JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I can show how the US is #1, based on a variety of criterion...
      
      #1 - USA
      #2 - Sweden
      #3 - New Zealand
      #521 - Everyone Else
      
      Criterion include: Who has the best natural vistas, Comparable living space per PPP USD, Best movie locations, and preference for flag colors.
      
      USA wins.

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         Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Read the detailed methodology page, here is the direct link: http://nationranking.files.wordpress.co … dology.pdf

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            JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I did.

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               Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Are there any of the stats that appear particularly wrong to you? We can check them vs the WB report and so forth.

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                  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Josak, there are no stats presented. Basic, unsourced methodology, and rankings only.
                  
                  It's one of the worst sources I've ever seen somebody use. Just because there is a pretty chart doesn't make it a good source.

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   rickyliceaposted 12 years ago

   Then why do so many cubans risk their lives to come to the U.S. ?
   The ranking says Cuba's education is the 5th best, what was the last invention to come out of Cuba?
   Cuba is a third world country and it will remain so, until theres regime change.
   
   According to this same ranking Mexico is a better place to live than cuba, so will Mexico be a better place to live than the U.S?
   
   Why don't you look at Chile probably the most free market economy in Latin America, that is ranked much higher and only three rankings behind the U.S.
   
   Ideologues always select evidence that fits their preconceived notions.

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      recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      How does quality of education have anything to do with invention ?
      
      How does regime change affect whether a country is first, second or third world status ?
      
      Many Americans choose to go live in Mexico,  how do you equate this with Cubans choosing to try and live in America AND what makes a country better to live in ?
      
      Ideologues always select evidence that fits their preconceived notions.

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         Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Oooh. Snap!
         

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      gmwilliamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      +1.

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well because there is a wealth gap still isn't there?
      
      Cuba has been extremely innovative especially in medical care they have pioneered for examples new eye surgery techniques and instruments that have made them arguably the world leader is the field, it's a country of only 4 million people (there have also been a variety of agricultural innovations etc. I wil do more research and let you know).
      
      Mexico's quality of life is actually in decline relative to most nations Cuba's has been increasing exponentially since the special period and for a long time before it.
      
      Oh I am a big fan of Chile and the variety of socialist and communist leaders it has elected pretty routinely, in fact I was in Chile when US backed troops in a military coup stormed the presidential house and murdered the first democratically elected Marxist leader and all his cabinet then went on to massacre all his supporters for decades.
      
      lastly you might want to learn what third world means it isn't what you think. Cuba will always be a third world country because it is neither in the American sphere of influence or in the former soviet block (the first was the first world, the second was the second world) I recommend some serious study there is a massive lack of knowledge in many of your comments.

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   JaxsonRaineposted 12 years ago

   Ok, let's look at this.
   
   wordpress.com website. Doesn't comply to webmaster standards, no contact information other than a gmail address, no privacy policy, no attribution, not updated, no sources, actual data not published...
   
   Unless I'm missing some link somewhere about who did this, how they did it, and where they got the data?
   
   ... but it's on the internet, so it must be right. Right?

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   recommend1posted 12 years ago

   Amazing how such a small country that was used and abused by the US, managed to dump their 'colonial' masters, resist invasion by the almighty US, with so many restrictions on their trade and comings and goings - has made it so far at all,  never mind supass the US in so many important areas of life and living.

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      JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I challenge you to present the original data for those rankings.
      
      Why do people think anything on the internet has to be true?

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         JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         OMG I just had the best idea for a website... ever.
         
         Thanks for the idea, hopefully I can make some good money off of it.

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         Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If you read the detailed methodology link the sources are mentioned, I had another link with the actual sources but I lost it most were from the WHO and WB as well as the Commonwealth fund etc. read the detailed methodology most of it is outlined.

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            JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No, it doesn't list sources.
            
            It does mention the commonwealth fund, but not the actual data. No actual sources are listed.

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         recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I am no great fan of internet facts - I always base my thoughts on what poeple I know and trust tell me - and my info comes from good friends who are Chinese teachers who chose to study in Cuba and then teach there for a few years.  What they tell me concurs with these figures in general, plus they really like the food and the free and easy atmosphere in Cuba.  The droves of tourists who go through there are also happy and polite, possibly due to the lack of Americans among them.  My good friend in the UK who took his family there for a diving holiday confirms my 'other' sources of information.  No internet involved.

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            JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You can tell stories like that all day long, but they don't work for objective discussion.

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               recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So you prefer manipulated internet figures over personal experience, figures.

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                  JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No, I prefer reliable information over personal claims.
                  
                  Here's the thing about the internet. Anybody can say anything.
                  
                  On top of that, personal experience is generally a very bad measure of a large system. I went to the hospital once, it was freaking amazing how they treated me. Best system ever.
                  
                  Then I went again, it sucked. Worst system ever.
                  
                  When dealing with fact, you have to realize that objective trumps subjective.
                  
                  So, Recommend. I've been to every country in the world, and I can tell you that the US is the best.

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                     recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     and yet clearly you have not been to every country in the world - so you are clearly a liar.  See how subjective opinion works . .
                     . . now go to your objective figures compiled by someone with an agenda that happens to hit you in your preconditioning and you can see that this is as much a lie as your visiting every country.  see how that works.
                     
                     In my case I am giving my opinion, I am explaining how I get my opinion, people who know me will know that I do not lie, although of course I can be mistaken . .
                     . . . we are the words we speak  and everything you know has been spoken (or written) to you from someone else.

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                        JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Prove it. I grew up in the home of a diplomat, we were wealthy and travelled a lot for personal reasons as well.
                        
                        You're trying to say that my subjective is subjective and your subjective is objective. It doesn't work that way. ALL subjective is subjective.
                        
                        As to whether or not you lie, I wouldn't be surprised. I would judge that off your character, and part of your character is your behavior toward people on an internet forum.
                        
                        Now, with objective figures, I can look at the original data. I can look at the methodology. If there is an agenda, you can find that in the methodology or data. See how that works? That's kind of the whole point of objective.
                        
                        Subjective = me telling you that a rock falls when I hold it up and let go.
                        Objective = me showing you the same thing.

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                           recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           You can make up what you like by tryhing to tell me what I am saying,  you only disclose that you either don't understand the written word, or have no argument.
                           
                           Maybe you might like to try again using your own argument in relation to what I actually said - I will give you a tip, as soon as you find yourself saying - "you're trying to say" and calling people a liar then you have already lost the argument.

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                        JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        And just in case you can't understand what I mean by your behavior towards people on a forum, I'm specifically referring to the times you pop into a discussion and insult everybody who disagrees with your position, calling them morons or some other such sweeping ad hominem argument.
                        
                        Yup, I'm sure going to take the word of someone who thinks it's ok to insult people he disagrees with, and simultaneously criticize them for being rude.

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                           recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           You misunderstand - I am not making an argument when I am rude to people - I am giving my opinion that they are morons.   And I strongly believe that insulting people is ok when they are clearly intelligent but are behaving like morons, or espousing some moronic cause, - and I never make any secret that it is only my opinion.
                           
                           Why should I be polite to morons who try to persuade my students that the world was made 6000 years ago and that jesus will make their sick parent better if they go with them to some secret bible babble classes ?     Why should I be polite to people who want to make the world a more dangerous place than it is already by proliferating weapons ?

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                              JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Actually, I haven't seen you state it as an opinion, I've seen you state it. Period.
                              
                              You are the one who doesn't understand. Calling someone a moron is an argument. It's a specific type of fallacious argument called ad hominem. Even if you don't realize it, you are presenting that fallacy as an argument against everything that they are saying.
                              
                              Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it a moronic cause. You are simply in the wrong about guns, because your ideas are based in what you think, rather than what reality is.

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                                 recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Ah  -  you mean what I think is only what I think, but what you think is reality ?

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                                    JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    Almost, you kind of have it backwards.
                                    
                                    There is the reality: Guns are here. Bad guys have them, and we can't stop them from having them.(All rights issues aside). Gun bans increase crime and the bad guys' ability to hurt others. Guns at home, and carried with a person, prevent crimes from happening/escalating.
                                    
                                    The facts are there. I can show you, or anyone else. But you don't care about the facts. You will call the facts biased, or wrong, or pushing an agenda(even if they aren't).
                                    
                                    So yes, what I think is right, because it is based on the reality. What you think is wrong, because it isn't. Yours is based on emotional response, knee-jerk reaction, and what you think the reality is/would be.

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                                       recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       This is patent nonsense - there are virtually no guns in the UK and most of Europe except Switzerland.  We very rarely have gun crimes around the place and those that do happen are unlikely to have been stopped by anyone else with a gun as they were committed by patent nut cases in infant schools and the like,  and a few where criminals have killed each other.
                                       
                                       Facts are only peer agreed opinions and it is clear that most of the world disagrees with your opinions on this, according to established way of things this means you are wrong.
                                       
                                       For the record,  America is seen as a country of gun toting rednecks which is thought by many to contribute toward your aggressive and loud approach to issues around the world.  This is unfortunate because most of my American friends are nice people at heart and the number of americans I meet who start with apologising for being American is reaching record proportions.  Culture is a cycle of 'stuff' that interacts and affects each part, guns are a really really stupid part of that culture.

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well it is something to consider that the embargo has had a significant impact. I am not a big fan of a lot of Cuban policies particularly their lack of democracy but economically and in a humanitarian sense it's been a big success.

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   JaxsonRaineposted 12 years ago

   
   
   Nope, US is number 1.

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      rickyliceaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I see the USSR is holding up quite well, in fact its doing better than the Republic of Texas.
      
      Empirical evidence can not be denied, socialism works, although the Iranian theocracy is also doing quite well, so I think now the fight is between these two systems of government.
      
      JaxsonRaine master of  all graphs
      
      

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