The lowest quality of life in the developed world: USA?

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   Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years ago

   Of course, I noticed when I came here that many things weren't up to the standard I was accustomed to, and when I say something about it, I'm accused of being anti-American. The fact that one might just be trying to tell a people that they've been misinformed doesn't occur, but anyway, here it is!
   
   http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2010/11/a … truth.html

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In the UN and World Bank ratings the US sits around #15 in quality of life in the world, and falling.

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      GNelsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      AS long as Washington DC pits money above people, we the people have little influence and very little chance of changing anything.

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      tammybarnetteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I have been saying I want to move to Australia for awhile now, I am about ready to just do it after wathching that...but I have to take my whole family,lol...even if all is true, and I'm sure it is, I would have no quality greater than all my children and parents being a part of my daily life...

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      Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "Of course, I noticed when I came here".
      
      When you came here? You could always leave!

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Standard response. Have you ever considered that leaving means one needs a certain amount of money and resources, and that sometimes one is stuck whether one wants to be in a country or not. It is a quandary for many.

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            Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I don't care if its a standard response, if you don't like the U.S. simply leave. Mexico isn't that far away maybe you would like that more.

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               Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Repair guy. I want to make a detailed response to this.
               
               First of all, the retort that if one doesn't like it, one must leave is a defensive retort because one cannot justify what is happening. More to the point, rather than look at what is wrong and what needs fixing, the easiest response is to attack, not to fix up the system that is rapidly destroying the USA.
               
               I want to reply on behalf of all the people who get that standard retort chucked at them!
               
               Firstly, it's not as simple as just to walk into another country. The general 'safe' cost of immigrating to another country is about $500,000. Sure, one can do it on less, but one endangers one's life and the life of one's family by doing it. In fact, unless one has a seriously advanced education for a country like the USA, there are only two other legal ways one can enter" by having a parent or child here or  by having more than a $1 million to invest in opening a business that will employ at least a dozen Americans. The last way is through winning the Green Card Lottery which is about the same as winning any lottery.
               
               Costs include shipping one's possessions, and it's not cheap in the USA. Have you ever tried shipping a household of furniture anywhere in the USA? It costs anything between $2000 for a few basics to $50,000 for a household of furniture and more. International relocation costs are even more. Then there is the cost of travel which is also not cheap, especially if it's international, plus  the cost of visas, the cost of immigration to consulates, etc.
               
               Are you aware that in immigrating to the USA (as with any country), one has to go through and pay for international police checks, medical checks, have various vacinations, pay for visas (I think I paid $600 each for my daughter and myself) and more. None of this is cheap. Then one needs money to live in the country where one is going for at least six months to a year because jobs are not assured.
               
               One cannot just go and live in another country. For instance, if one went into Mexico, they have immigration laws, believe it or not.  If one goes into any country, there are certain laws one has to abide by. The criminal class, of course, will do anything. However, legal immigration is a very tough process.
               
               I know of several people who want to leave but cannot because they don't have the money to foot the bill.
               
               Your retort is childish and ill thought out. People sometimes stay in the USA not because they love it, but because they don't have an option.

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   recommend1posted 12 years ago

   I can't open that link here - but on a similar note, I do social compliance here in China and the big talking point at the moment is about US buyers who insist on various standards in their suppliers BUT operate significantly less high standards within their own organisations !!

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   tmbridgelandposted 12 years ago

   Some things better, some worse. I have lived in various countries. Quality of life in Japan, where I lived for 15 years, I would rate as significantly poorer than in the US, though some specific aspects are better.
   It has been quite a few years since I visited any European countries. My impressions from back then were similar. Different countries had specific points of superiority. Northern Europe scored well in my book, Southern Europe less well, in terms of cleanliness and order. Major American cities tend to be dominated by an entrenched, corrupt political class with little interest in improving their cities. Chicago, near where I live now, is an excellent example. That city is being slowly run into the ground. Detroit has been destroyed. Sad cases, and clear examples of where the US falls down. DC is another example.
   
   Sophia, what standard are you accustomed to?

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   Praetorposted 12 years ago

   "Quality of Life" is subjective; it's based entirely on the individual's perceptions.
   
   In that blog post, the author bases his assertion on the things that are important to him; those same criteria wouldn't apply to everyone else. He also fails to take into account the "veil of ignorance" (you can't miss what you don't know).

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      Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Uh.  The point of the article is to highlight what people don't know...
      
      Your quality of life claim is also chicanery.
      
      If I get health benefits, vacation days, clean air and water, and a job that doesn't treat me like a cog in a machine, I am going to be much more satisfied than someone who doesn't have those things.
      
      If quality of life is so subjective, then I guess you can't really complain about anything anywhere.  If you don't like Obama, your critique is just your "individual perceptions."  Same with Romney.  It's totally self-defeating.

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         Praetorposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So the "Sooner standard" (health benefits, vacation days, clean air and water, etc) is the only valid measure of quality of life?
         
         Those things only improve your quality of life if those things are important to you; since not everyone cares about vacation days or health benefits, your "standard" is limited.
         
         Quality of life being subjective doesn't mean that people can't complain, it means that they all have a different standard by which they measure that quality.

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            Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Oh but it does mean exactly that.
            
            If you are going to minimize what other countries provide for their citizens because you know the U.S. is seriously lacking and you can give no justification for it, then falling back on 'subjective interpretations" allows you to  avoid having to defend the lack of standards here compared to other industrialized countries.
            
            You did it in your response to me, and accused me of using the "Sooner standard."  Nice try.

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               Praetorposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               First of all, no one is "minimizing what other countries provide for their citizens"; since I don't live in "other countries", I could care less what those countries offer their citizenry- that's their business, not mine.
               
               Likewise, neither I, nor the US Government needs to "justify" the quality of life in this country to anyone other than the citizens of this country.
               
               You're claiming that people can't be happy with their lives unless they meet your standards for "quality"; well I would imagine that most people, when told that their quality of life is somehow sub-par because they don't fit your criteria, would be more than happy to tell you exactly where to go with your "Sooner standard", and what you could do with it once you got there.

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                  Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Again, you only kind of respond to what I actually said.  'I don't have to justify myself to anyone.'  Why don't you just stick your fingers in your ears and yell lalalalalala like a child does when someone tells them something they don't want to hear and they just say no no no?  'I don't need to give a rational justification for the economic situation of the people in this country!  Ba humbug to that sir!'
                  
                  Furthermore, I did not claim people could not be happy without all the standards I laid out.  There are many people who are happy IN SPITE OF the fact that workers here are treated poorly compared to other industrialized countries.  Human beings are very resilient.  I was only arguing happiness could be even higher if people were not treated like animals that are used to enrich the few.
                  
                  And your final response is still amusing because you continually refuse to defend the lack of benefits for American citizens.  Perhaps it would be better if you just yell at the top of your lungs: ' I WILL NOT ENGAGE WITH ANY POINTS YOU MAKE!'  At least then, I would understand what I was dealing with, and would not have made the mistake that you would at least try to give an argument for what you believe.

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                     Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     There is a blind refusal in this country to acknowledge that virtually all industrialized countries have a better quality of life than Americans do. This is fine. Ostriches are allowed to exist as well. What is irritating, though, is that many of these people are the same people who are speaking about American exceptionalism, and how America is the greatest country in the world...

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                        Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Funny how it always goes hand in hand huh?
                        
                        If you care about someone, you don't pretend the person doesn't have faults.  You try to help them become a better person.  The "love it or leave it crowd" (which is a fallacious false dilemma) regurgitate an unthinking conditioned response when any criticism of the United States is pushed.  Our rulers are doing their jobs .

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                           Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           That's about right. And it is very, very sad. One cannot fix up something if one denies it exists. Of course, fixing it up would mean a change in the rich robbing the poor, and that's why they're bent on the propaganda machine which so influences many to believe the lies...
                           
                           I also think that people whose egos are involved with their countries have a need to believe that their country is the best....

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                              Sooner28posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Don't know if you are familiar with Howard Zinn, but he wrote a book called The People's History of the United States, where he tells the history of the United States from the perspective of the Indians, African Americans, women, etc.  If you haven't read it, I suggest picking up a copy.
                              
                              Also, he is in the documentary "You can't be neutral on a moving train."  Definitely worth watching.

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                                 Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 thanks for the heads-up. I'll do that.

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   CHRIS57posted 12 years ago

   I wouldn´t know where to put the US in a ranking list, but it would be certainly not as high as most Americans would think. And refering to some official ranking, i would put rank below official marks, because that official list is offset by the living standards of the top 1%.
   I was raised in the US in the 60ties and 70ties, then went to Germany and lived some time in post communist Russia. That should give me a little headstart to evaluate living situations. Compared to what i remember from the early 70ties, the US went downhill just by comparing with themselves. Comparing to peer developed economies the downturn reveals a true drama.
   Not everything is money or economics. There is also more to it than health and medical care or how much vacation you have in your respective country.
   How do you rate access to culture? What choice does an average American have to go to a theatre or an opera house? Of course there is NYC or Chicago with their famous theatres, museums. But what does someone from Idaho Falls or Albuquerque or Wichita have to do to see a performance of Shakespeare´s "Romeo and Juliet" or Puccini´s "Madame Butterfly"? He/she will probably have to buy or download a movie and watch at home.
   People who don´t know of how life could be have little possibility to complain. What puzzles me is that in today´s world of internet and information interchange, people are still ignorant on such things.

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      Petra Vlahposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There are many practical things in the US that make life easier (from washers and dryers to parking spaces, form sprinklers to the possibility to solve most problems over the phone) - my comparison is made in regards to Italy in this case.
      In terms of vacation time and exposure to culture all European countries  win, hands down, but everyday life in US is easier and more affortable

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         CHRIS57posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         There used to be a difference in "every day life", but within the last 10 years the gap diminished. And the gap was not related to money, but to regulations, red tape, laws, at least when comparing to Germany.
         A real drawback in the US is distance. To buy groceries you are almost without choice required to use your car. This is certainly different in central Europe where bicycle-hiking is not limited to infamous Lance Armstrong. But of course  having much space in a big country is not what the US is to be blamed for and the US shares this handicap with many large countries like Russia, Australia, Brazil, ... However what you do with large space, how it is utilized is something that could be worked on.

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      Chams1956posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I live in the reddest state in the union.
      The city nearby is quite likely at any time to have those shows you just mentioned in production and on stage. There is a very active arts community here. There are more concerts happening than a person could possibly have time to take in.
      Quality of life is very subjective and I personally don't believe in living by an "index".

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   prettydarkhorseposted 12 years ago

   this is an index used by UN - index for quality of life (Human Development Index) and US is fourth - not bad!
   
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … ment_Index

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That is the HDI it's used for differentiating between developed and developing nations. This is the quality of life index:
      wikiepedia's old version US ranks at 13 but data is out of date.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_Index
      
      
      Rankings for 2011 US ranks at #31
      http://nationranking.files.wordpress.co … 1-qli2.png

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         prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks josak, but QOL is inclusive already in HDI, it is one of the index used

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      recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And of course the US dominated UN can apply whatever elements it likes to make up the estimates it comes up with. 
      
      Outside bodies do not always agree so meekly, China famously put out their human rights index a few years ago and (using the same indicators set by the UN) calculated  that the US, in its activities all over the world not just at home, rates way down the scale with third world countries.

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         prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         recommend1 good to see you. You know very well that nations meet and gather to come up with this stats HDI, QOL (demographers and population representative from each countries). They spend UN money to come up with this, ;-)

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            recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Nice to you too pretty dh. 
            
            And of course you are right to some extent.  Maybe you didn't note the bullying going on in the run up to the Iraq war when the US refused to pay over its share of the UN running costs ??  how the UN was then running in debt and having to suspend humanitarian operations all over the place ??   
            
            The UN reports have substance but the 'requirement' of the US that the reports are made in ways that leave them in a better light are quite clear.  In the same way that the US demands the extradition of other nationals in accord with the UN and other negotiated agreements - but refuses to extradite its own nationals wanted by other countries !

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               prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Other representatives from more developed countries could influence others in the deliberations for the Human Development Index used specially if the sponsor is a powerful organization like world Bank etc.
               
               Other than that in my opinion, these statistics or measures - human development index, quality of life index etc. do not include the most important thing - the question - "Are you happy?". Happiness is relative. We should look beyond the number. :-)

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            Chams1956posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Now you don't really think they will admit they know the game is rigged here so you?

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         Chams1956posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If the UN is US dominated why are they going to monitor our elections?

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            Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Because there are plenty of foreign employees o the UN with integrity that monitor elections all around the world.
            If you are so concerned about voter fraud you should be glad.

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               Chams1956posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I f I thought for one milli microsecond that it was fair and they would look at BOTH sides of the election that would be fine but you know good and well it's just stacking the deck.
               
               Here it is:
               Romney wins........"civil rights groups" go to UN and wail and rend their garments.
               UN tries to have a US Presidential election overturned.
               You know this is what is being set up. Especially with the Snopes debunked stories about Mitt Romney's son owning the voting machines. Yes we want 2000 all over again don't we?

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            recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If you can't see that you answer your own question then there is little hope for you - and you will deserve the next set of pre-determined politicians that are going to screw you yet again.

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               Chams1956posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Do you actually know anything? Or do you just make rambling answers that make you seem profound?
               I am betting the latter.

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                  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I only seem profound because you don't understand

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                     Chams1956posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     You only seem profound because you are deluded.

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   maxoxam41posted 12 years ago

   Nothing surprising there. As you rightly stated it, the ones who open the eyes of their compatriots are boxed anti-American. What about them being more realistic, more objective? If we are more objective, what are they then?

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   rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

   A blog written by an unhappy American?  ...   in 2010 encouraging people to pack up and move out of their country, a lot has changed in our world since that writing.
   
   Comparing the US, which is a large, diverse country to a much smaller western country is hardly relative.  France is the size of Colorado.  Switzerland is probably about the size of Maryland.  It's hard to make relative comparisons.  Our personal quality of life is made, not given.
   
   America is still a young country.

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      gmwilliamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      + 1,000,000,000,000 !

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   LeanManposted 12 years ago

   Your quality of life is what you make it rather than relying on and complaining about others.
   
   Personally I could not afford to survive and live in the UK or the US the way that I want to live. Now I am relaxing in  the Philippines with good weather most of the time, pleasant scenery, clean air, and friendly people..
   
   But of course health care and other things are terrible compared to back home but hopefully I can avoid needing that!!

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