Barrels of ink have been spilled over Medicare during this year's campaign. There's nothing wrong with that: Obama and Romney have fundamentally different approaches to Medicare and they deserve attention. Romney, for example, wants to increase the eligibility age to 67 and convert Medicare into a voucher system that relies primarily on competition between private firms to rein in costs. That's a big change. At the same time, the actual differences in what the two candidates would spend on Medicare is fairly modest. This is more a fight over means than ends.
The same can't be said for Medicaid. Romney wants radical changes here too, promising to "block grant" Medicaid if he's elected. This means the program would be turned over entirely to the states. The federal government would continue to provide a share of funding, but that funding would go straight into state coffers, and states could decide how to spend it. So the question is: Once released from federal regulations, what would states do with their Medicaid money? More here:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2 … n-medicaid
Good, there is another reason to vote for him. Thanks Ralph.
For your sake I hope your not a 47 percenter.
No I'm not, I actually work and pay my own way, no needs from this job killing government.
Well, congratulations to you. Be grateful that you're not downsized or outsourced, or grossly underpaid for your job.
Repairguy, so you don't have aproblem with the "living prophet" of the Morman church, speaking FOR GOD to it's followers? SO, if the living prophet tells, say a president Romney go to war, that's okay? Do yourself a favor and search living prophet and planet kolob and the Morman church. Republicans made a big deal out of Rev. Wright, correct? You might be shocked with the google search results forf living prophet and planet kolob. That search makes rev. wright a saint! And no, I'm an Independent not a Democrat. You know? One of those swing voters! lol
And you seem to be in denial of the facts. I voted for President Bush. I believed him when he said giving tax breaks to the rich would create jobs. Did it? No And I believed he would sign the health care bill allowing "like businesses" to pool together to get pricing on health insurance. Did he? No. Many Republicans want to attack the POTUS for Rev Wrights statements, yet you refuse to research what I wrote above?
Do you know that with the billions, even trillions of dollars of tax breaks that Bush gave to the wealthy and such, that only 9% of that went to job creation? That means that 91% went back into fattening up the already fattened back pockets of his wealthy friends.
Interesting comment. I assume you refer to the (large) group of Americans that do not share in the financing of the federal government.
If so, do you mean that anyone wishing to continue living off the forced charity of others should vote for Obama? At least in the field of free* medical care?
*Actually, "free" is a poor description (there is no such thing as free medical care as someone always pays for it); "paid for by others" is a better description.
\Wow those people came down long enough to write something? Must have cleaned out the old bong huh?
Credibility issues there Ralph. I know you don't think so but.........
Just every bit as much as someone will refute when I use a Breitbart link.
Or try to link to Wikipedia.
plug into factcheck.org there are tons of links to choose from, and they call out both parties on BS..this is a good place to check facts, I use it daily...You can not believe anything you hear and only half of what you see:) I am a democrat, but...I want to know the truth about both parties:)
Guess what Tammy? i am a Democrat too. When the idiots leave the Party I will come back. I speak this as the black sheep of my family.
Me too,LOL...I live in TN, I'm the black sheep of the majority of my state....HAhaha....
I am originally from Kingston in Roane County.
You know where they have the plant with the two big steam stacks on I -40.
I'm not familiar with the area, are you southern by the grace of God as well:)? I always liked that saying...American by birth and Southern by the grace of God:)
Hate to break it to y'all but you ain't southern, I'm southern, Texas is the real south. Y'all are just Yankees!
Sorry but Tennessee is the Promised Land. Nuff said.
Texas ain't nearly as Southern as South GA! Y'all are westerners. Y'all don't even eat the right kind of BBQ. BBQ was invented for pig cookin' - not for beef brisket! lol
Repairguy, wow, I'm not really southern or American in your point of view, wow, how slim is your point of view?
I'm sorry your not southern by the grace of God, I'm happy to be a Texan so if it makes you happy you can claim my birthright as your own.
We have a republican governor here in Wisconsin. I can pretty much guarantee that he would not use the block grants for medicaid to help the poor get/stay insured. Only the extreme impoverished would be safe, and the rest would go toward programming like abstinence only sex education.
I also have a problem with social security funds getting used in such manner. Unlike what Romney says, SS is NOT necessarily an entitlement program. Only unless you're benefiting w/o having the work behind it to pay in. Otherwise, for the rest of us working chaps, it's OUR money for OUR retirement.
Maybe instead of turning into a voucher program where there is a cap, once that money is used, that's it, he should use his own tax breaks to pay back the IOU's stuck in the S.S. pot. Same goes for the 1%.
Hi, Ralph as always the rightwinger by definition remains a statutory irritant.The president and progressives need to "out" Romney, a term used within homosexual circles. In effect we need to corner the weasel and give him no where to move just prior to a checkmate in a good chess game.
We progressives need to be as bold in making the Romney and GOP lies clear to everyone.If the President can get this kind of contrary information out to people asking questions in tonights debate, it would be great. Let us all put the heat on the little plutocrat and force him to explain why he is anything but the moderate he keeps portraying himself as.
Just another liberal scare tactic. I'm sure you believe that RandR want to kill their parents too.
The program needs revised in order for it to survive. The current administration doesn't have the guts to do anything, so they put down those that have ideas to consider.
Only true morons would believe that Romney would actually obliterate Medicaid.
Same goes for the scare tactic regarding women. obama is not only clueless and incompetent, he is vicious dirty politician who is running scared because people are actually starting to see thru his facade.
That sounds like a reasonable comparison, Ralph, but when you consider the history of the Republican Party and its positions on social issues -- especially since the FDR days -- then it becomes clear (to me at least) that Romney's plan is just an initial step to start the dissolution of Medicare and Social Security. Romney's campaign as a "severe conservative" during the primaries and his numerous lies during his first debate with President Obama make clear he will say what he thinks his audience wants to hear. His true position, however, is clearly to eliminate social programs while cutting the taxes of his fellow millionaires to the greatest extent possible. In short, he simply is not believable.
Would you mind pointing out those lies and provide proof they are in fact lies?
Repairguy, may I ask, why would you want millions of seniors to lose their medicaid? Are old, fragile, sick people just not good enough to be Americans? These people worked their behinds off their entire lives and paid taxes into this government, so what is your beef with them being able to see their doctors and take their medications, and be comfortable before death...I mean what is your reasoning with these statements your making? Your voting for Romney, okay, good for you, but what in the world makes you think you are superior to the elderly?
Are you talking about Medicare or Medicaid? Medicaid isn't specifically for the elderly - that's Medicare.
Yes, but over 60% are elderly, the rest are usually children of poor families and the disabled, which I believe makes the same point...I do not understand this new superior line of thinking that I am hearing from the right these days...
You said "they worked their behinds off." Some people on Medicaid have never been employed.
Most of the people on Medicaid who have never been employed are disabled. So should we cut them off, since they didn't pay into the system? Many people who also have worked their butts off didn't make enough to have a significant amount of money to get back in S.S. - so that would make them needy of Medicaid as well as Medicare.
p.s. Most of my family works in the health care industry in some form or another. I get my facts from what I see, and what others see first hand.
According to Kaiser, only 10% of those on Medicaid are elderly. That's the 2009 figure, but it's hard to believe it jumped 50% in 3 years.
http://www.medicaidprogram.net/ I also noticed that being poor is not enough to be qualified
I didn't see the figure in your link about 60% of Medicaid recipients being elderly. Did I miss it? Something interesting I did see was the amount of fraud and errors that cost $$$$.
I believe it said 68% were in nursing homes...maybe I shouldn't have assumed they were all elderly persons, I know some disabled are also in nursing homes..
Nursing homes have evolved, they are now long term care facilities. HMO's realized years ago it was cheaper to put a person who needs a long recovery and rehab into these facilities since they are already staffed with nurses and CNA's. The cost is much less than keeping the person in the hospital.
I have had the unfortunate experience of having resided in two such places over the last 5 years. I can tell you first hand that it is difficult to make a statement on percentages because it is an ever evolving situation. One day there can be 55% under 55, the next day 55% over 55.
The quality of care sucks, to say the least. I know first hand how Medicare and Medicaid work, currently, they do not. Incredible waste and fraud, little attention to patient care, constant fighting to get them to approve procedures and testing.
I have been getting sicker by the day after 9/11, I was there. I had no insurance and pad my own way. I spent over $200,000 but no answers. I became very ill and ended up in one of the long term care facilities. I was there about 2 1/2 years. I was released and 3 months later was rushed to the hospital, I almost dies. I had a HMO from Medicaid at this point. The emergency room called to confirm coverage and get approval of the Trach operation needed to save my life and a list of tests they wanted to run. Medicaid said NO TO IT ALL !!!!. The surgeon who evaluated me said screw them, did the operation, and put me on life support. If not for the DOc, I would be dead today. I was in another facility for another 2 years.
My point to this is this, I am a former 1%er. I paid in SS and medicare withholding more that most people will make in a lifetime. But based on the way the system is set up, I am not eligible to collect. During my stay, I got $30 dollars a month to live on.
Nothing will change in this system if Obama is re-elected. Medicare is going broke in 2016, SSDI is going broke in 2015, SS is going broke in 2033, it was 2037 last year but due to Obama policies it keeps getting shorter. These are facts.
Under the Romney Paul plan, they will take the insurance out of the governments hands. Companies will offer policies and you will choose the coverage you want. Today's Medicare has you pay a premium, which by the way has a rate increase coming this year. Under the Romney plan, the poor pay no premiums and it scale up where the rich pay way more in premiums.
Is that not what the Left wants, the 1%ers paying more? Here is a program that does it and the Left balks at it.Go figure.
AV, wow man, I had no idea what you went through, bless your heart, I am glad you had a good doc and are here today to help go after the crooks.(I think you are part of Jim's organization, right, if not I apologize, if not you should be:)) Anyway, there is no more ethical standards on state levels, that's my first point, my second point being that taking all that cash and floating it in the stock market is a bad idea for reasons I have said and third, we can all agree that stricter regulations on these programs can make the solvent...off the top of my head, we shouldn't be borrowing from them....I want to help fight the underlying corruption that is bankrupting these programs as well as the rest...As far as the sliding scale, that is a great idea, I'm sure the rest of the attached parts of the bill is the reason dems say no...
I have concerns about the pre-existing condition issue. Just having a spine curvature, for years I had to fight mean doctors who tried to blame any illness I had on my back, no matter how unrelated it was. I would never want to go back to that, but did pay my own insurance then, I was not on any assistance, I was still working.
So you had bad Doctors? Do you think Doctors will somehow be superior because of Obama care? Actually they will probably be worse an less of them. If you think thats a good trade then good luck.
The strawman argument, nice tactic. Works better when you use the right demographic group however. Nice try though.
I DID use the right demographic group, look it up! 60% are the elderly, the rest are mostly children and the disabled...So are you saying you just think you are superior to the poor?
I said that I would be glad for the states to control medicare, I said I worked and paid my own way. How you came to the conclusion that I feel superior is beyond me.
Medicaid is mostly controlled by the states, I pay my own way, but I do not think that those whose lives aren't as easy as mine should just crawl in a corner and die...what in the world is going on with people these days! Heavens sake, their are hurting people in this world that DIDN"T get there because they are lazy and want to live off of the stupid government! Sure, there are people who abuse the system at the bottom, but FAR more that abuse it at the top!
And who is promoting that they should suffer? I think the states would do a better job. How do you get the thoughts that I want people to suffer? I know where, you made it up because you think and want others to think Republicans or Conservative are mean. Typical left wing tactics...
Repairguy, I have no need for tactics because I actually have facts. I do not like the conservative party that is running for office, I do like many conservative people, even at the top...Huntsman seems like a great man, he should be running, That would be a fair choice for the conservative party
Funny, when I ran a forum endorsing Jon Huntsman, I was executed by everyone on the right and left. Now there are so many for both sides of the aisle that wish he was the guy. I hope when Romney wins that he at least makes Huntsman Secretary of State.
Repairguy: Where's the strawman? That typically means the responder creates a character to stand in for a real person. This isn't the case with this question. Those seniors, many of whom worked their fannies off to get us through a war on two fronts, have little or nothing to fall back on. They are real however, not strawmen.
Medicaid is already run by the individual states, under federal guidelines. Perhaps the states would do a better job if they had more control.
Habee, I hate to say it, but I seriously doubt that. My grandmother passed away last year right before Thanksgiving. She worked on the space shuttle...Hell of a woman! At the end of her life she was hold up in a tiny room in a nursing home....They have recently built on to this nursing home....my aunt went in last week, the rooms are still just as tiny so they can shove them in and take their money! It is so sad the way we treat our old people in this country.
Sad to hear.
At the same time she worked for one of the most elite of government agencies and that is all it got her?
Now we are supposed to believe they will do better for the rest of us?
Sorry for your loss but that may have not been the best example for you to use.
Absolutely agree. Don't get me started on how we treat our seniors, our elders. It's a total racket. Get Grandma into the home and have her pay for a couple of months. Then her money runs out and they can't kick her out. They get paid by Medicaid. Yes. Medicaid, not Medicare.
That whole system needs to be seriously overhauled. But I suspect that given the rapidly advancing sea of Baby Boomers, there is little incentive to reform an industry that's raking in the dough while letting old people stew in their own piss in -- as you point out -- undignified conditions.
I agree that we need to treat the elderly better. My mom died in an assisted living facility. She wasn't on Medicaid. She had enough retirement income to almost pay the monthly fee, and my brother and I covered the rest. It was a wonderful place - a far cry from most "nursing homes." What really angers me is the families who totally neglect their elderly in nursing homes. I volunteer in elderly facilities sometimes, and I always leave sad and depressed. Some of these individuals have been all but forgotten by family members.
I hear ya, Habee.
My dad put himself into a retirement facility after my mom died, also private pay.
It was also a high end, really nice one. He met amazing people -- former judges, pilots, lots of WWII vets (women and men).
But you're so right. If your family abandons you there, it doesn't much matter if the surroundings are nice or nasty. And that is all too common.
Hubby and I moved in with Mom when she first developed Alzheimer's because we didn't want her to have to leave her home. When the condition advanced, however, we had no choice. I was still working full time then, and she had to be watched 24/7. That was one of the worst days of my life. At least we didn't forget her, though. I visited almost every day, and sometimes more than once a day. My brother, my daughters, my grandkids, and other relatives and friends visited often. Also, Mom had several old friends in the same facility, so that was nice.
My grandfather took care of my grandmother as long as he could. Most beautiful love story I have ever seen. She was visited often as well...Although they both retired well from good careers, her illness almost bankrupted them...the cost of her medications alone...There are plenty of people who played by the rules and are getting screwed over by the system....And yes MM, it robs them of their dignity! It's a crying shame to say the least.
Details would be nice as far as Romney/Ryan ticket. I hear 5 point plan but no details. Wants Obamacare gone, entitlement programs as well. These politicians has the best insurance tax payer money could "Give them", and yet in their opinion, "Some" shouldn't be helped! I'm starting to wonder here? If he's elected good bye SS, Medicare, Medicaid, disabilty? Wish he would enlighten us what his "Plan Details" are?
I am over 50 and unless I win the lottery will be relying on these programs. (you just threw in SS, so I will ignore that) At some point you have to say -- yes this would be better for me, but that would be better for my country. Then you got to support that.
A really fine thing about the USA is that we have a legislative and executive branch. And as we see with Obamacare a Judiciary. Neither can just do as they please. So I think a president with a bent toward redoing and decentralizing will result in a proper balance moving forward. No one here rules by fiat, so I like to look at how ideas fit into the whole system. We need a tug away from socialized medicine not the other way.
Why people over 50 are buying into Romney/Ryan has more to do with racial politics than sense. Romney actually does not want to obliterate Medicare because he can't. We paid into those programs.
What he really want's to do is to hand the nation's most rich treasure over to his greedy cronies for their profit.
He is fully aware that it will cost more to administer Medicare if private firms skim off money for profit, but as long as he and his friends get richer, that is all that matters.
This is a man who resents the soldiers who are fighting the wars he loves so much because many of them don't make enough to pay taxes! It is not a stretch to see this sick man grabbing a solvent system and enriching himself.
And if people are so appreciative of their medicare, then why are they voting for the man who will destroy it and them? There is something irrational and wrong with almost half of America, for Romney to be showing so well in the polls.
Where do you come up with this garbage?
You all need to face the facts that both Medicare and Social Security are going Bankrupt. These programs are going bankrupt because funds from these programs were raided and mismanaged almost from the onset when it was recognized by previous legislative bodies these programs were easy to “borrow” (pilfer) from.
Had these programs been left alone and untouched, rather than poached to fortify the General Fund to pay for other entitlement and social programs (Welfare, Planned Parenthood, Endowment for the Arts, just to name a few) they would have provided exactly what was promised with billions in surplus. Thank the Left for the ruination of two great ideas.
I think it is a bit funny and extraordinarily pathetic, that you all have been duped by the lies being told you by the very people that stole the principal from the Social Security and Medicare annuity funds to begin with.
The simple fact of the matter is neither of these programs have the money to pay the benefits as promised. Why do you think this government is borrowing money now from countries around the world?
So you can choose to go merrily along and watch these systems fail and drag our nation deeper in debt (the Obama Choice) or you can attempt to address the issue to correct the problem, (the Romney Choice.)
Let's make it simpler you can buy a porterhouse steak tonight, have a great meal and starve the rest of the week, or you can use the same amount of money and buy soup to eat all month.
readytoescape, look up the numbers from the CBO who has sais that obamacare will actually decrease the deficit and the R/R plan of repealing it will add to the deficit...run the numbers for yourself...There are ways to work on all social programs to reienforce their humanitiarian causation and purpose...SS for instance has a huge accounting error, the cap is set to low and has not been updated to inflationary measures, something Obama mentioned in 2008...there is always a way for America to work together for the good of all people...R/R plan to throw all of the money people have been paying in to the stock market right at the time the Fed has decided to no longer report M3, which is by the way the best measure for economic bubbles, so what happens when the stock market goes belly up again....all that have already paid in lose everything ie...401Ks of the last bubble burst..people need to quit believing in talking points and look the points up and do the math as a concerned citizen should.
I sent you a link once before showing you the latest CBO figures showing Obamacare will add a trillion dollars to the national debt and insurance premiums will go up approximately $ 3,000 per year, and millions will be left without insurance. I know you reject the link last time but it does not change the fact of the CBO conclusions. The report you cite is Pre Supreme Court decision, he CBO updated after the Supreme Court decision.
I sent you back the updated link and apologized for sending the older one before the supreme court decision, as well as the link providing the letter to Bahner about the immense added cost for repealing ...
By the way I provided the link from the CBO not a left wing oraganization, the one you sent me was from the heritage foundation a known right wing organization...I would also be glad to send you links about the Fed decision to stop reporting M3 if you like.
Ignore it all you want, does not change the fact your links were prior Supreme court, the Heritage link was post Supreme court and had the actual latest CBO report.
I am disappointed in you. I thought you were someone who wanted all the actual information even if it does not agree with your viewpoint. We have had some good civil discussions in the past, one of the biggest reasons I have respected you here on HP. TO not read something, I know you are better than that.
I read every link including these two very outdated links you provided, one from March 23, 2006 and the other from May 23, 2006. I think it is safe to say things have changed since then. I always find them informative as to why a person has the belief they have. Sometimes I even find facts I was no aware of.
The link at the bottom of this page is the UPDATED link that I sent you, yes it is from right after the courts decision...and I DID read your link, I told you that on the last forum, I respect you and your views and I appreciate that you return respect to me..we just disagree, I still think your an awesome American:)
AV, let me get on my soapbox for just a moment...I want a country that is best for all Americans....I respect your point of view as well as, women who may seek abortion, gay persons who want to get married, people who want to come live in this country legally,people who do not believe in God or believe in a different God, people who want to choose their own paths and their own way of life...I believe that is what America is all about..that is why I am proud to be an American..I am a Christian, my values may not support the actions of those listed but my values are mine and I want them to be respected and understand that others feel the same about their own values...this is also why I am a Democrat, liberty and justice for all....we need to learn to respect all people, we may not agree but everyone deserves the respect of their own choices...I write about coming together, I write about issues, I have not written not even one piece to slam Romney...I talk about what I believe
JSChams, I can tell you this, we have bluecross/blueshield and our premiums haven't changed...just a people story, but a fact:)
I guess we will have to see JS, I read all of the budgetary information and so I will have to wait for a new report...I will be checking though my friend:)
See let me tell you about something I have a tendency to do.
Seems every time i post or get into something here all of a sudden everyone has all these links to this that and the other.
i look out the window and see what is happening.
i call it the proof is in the pudding.
now someone made that a headline somewhere.
Where's the pudding?
Because i am one of those who believes the internet is such anyone can find whatever numbers they like to shore up their argument.
look out the window and see what's happening. not what a calculator says is happening.
I do agree with that to an extent, here in my neck of the woods people are doing pretty good...jobs on the rise, employment down, huge college enrollments...I mean we are doing great, people at the church are doing great...BUT, the food pantries are running out of food so, we still have many hurting, even if their not in my neighborhood...so the churches step up drives, the school kids get out and collect, we do what we can with what we have.
Paul, Medicare is only going to be around for another 11 years (according to Office of Finance) at the rate its going. Changing things, so it lasts a bit longer is going to hurt how?
And I never said you weren't American! That's you in hysterics. Liberals tend to be overly emotional.
Yes I am hysterical and emotional and not southern not American...what else am I or am I not since you know me so well...I do not get hysterical nor emotional sir, I have had 3 teen girls and a new baby to care for all at once...Getting emotional and hysterical would not bode well in those circumstances nor in these hard times we are facing, but you may choose to believe whatever you so wish...you already do politically so why wouldn't you personally, LOL
Repairguy is full of unadulterated crap. Unless, that is, he built his own home with tools he made himself, built the roads he uses to do his repair work, created his own tools for the repair business, built his own car and so on.
That or he doesn't get "you had help somewhere along the line."
We would all be better off taking care of our own health to the extent that we are able to through diet exercise and omega 3 fatty acids found in seafood such as canned salmon flaxseed oil ,organic fruits and veggies eaten raw of course raw almonds and high quality protein and healthy fats found in avacado, extra-virgin Olive oil and taking a superior multi-vitamin mineral suppliment as well.
Organic cultured yogert with omgea 3 fatty acid oil along with fresh organic fruit for breakfast .
Stay away from GMO'S -Genetically Modified Organisms - food from genetically modified seeds such as corn and soybeans two of the biggest crops Corporate Farms and some Independent domestic and foreign farmers are practically forced to buy along with pesticides and herbicides that are killing honey bees and making people sick.
We are killing ourselves by letting corporations take over our government.
Monsanto is in charge of the FDA . The Fox is guarding the hen house and killing the hens.
The roosters are all dead except for the few needed to keep the hens around.
FOX News is the one guarding the henhouse!
For the record, Obamacare includes widespread wellness support to reduce chronic health problems in our fat, sick population.
I've heard health care providers (hospital systems and existing community health clinics) talking about changing doctor incentives to pay them to keep their patients WELL rather than rewarding them for treating patients only when they get sick.
What a concept, eh?
@Mighty Mom, what a concept indeed! lol Can't wait for the other sides rebuttal to your statement! lol
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