Dismal showing for Child Well Being in US and UK

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   Will Apseposted 11 years ago

   The US and UK rank pretty much at the bottom of the pile for rich countries.
   
   http://www.oecd.org/els/family/43570328.pdf
   
   Sweden comes top for children's material well being.
   
   Italy comes tops for family relationships (kids in Mediterranean countries always look like a different species to me. They look happy.).
   
   Belgian comes top for educational well being.
   
   The Netherlands come top in subjective well being just beating out Spain and Greece.
   
   The US and UK fought it out for bottom spot in most parameters.
   
   As someone addicted to travel none of this surprises me. When I see kids in England I feel sorry for them. When I was in the US ditto.
   
   Mind you, kids of the kind these two countries produce make excellent soldiers when they come of age.

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   John Holdenposted 11 years ago

   It's interesting to note that the further to the right the UK swings the higher percentage of children living in poverty rises.

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   Reality Bytesposted 11 years ago

   Different thread, same answer.
   
   Since the USA is a union of fifty sovereign states.  Why not compare a state like Massachusetts to those of the world.

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Have a similar post.

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      Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If that's the case, I vote we all declare a war of annihilation on Texas.

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         Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Who's we?

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            Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The other 49 states. We are sovereign, right?

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               Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               The Republic of Texas was an independent sovereign nation in North America which existed from March 2, 1836, to February 19, 1846
               
               http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas
               
               
               Wouldn't it be easier to allow them to revert back to their Independent status, without the whole central government tyranny forcing them to stay?

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                  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  #1 I doubt they would want to in the majority, polls certainly  indicate they do not.
                  #2 It's utterly irrelevant to this forum post.

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                     Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     That was in response to a post to me.
                     
                     My point is that there is a state in the U.S. that would probably lead the world in living standards, Massachusetts.   Even some Americans do not realize that there are fifty separate states within the nation.  What can be said of Arkansas does not hold true for Deleware.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   The question is, what is Sweden doing differently from England and the US?

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   The rich countries are failing their children. That was the basis of that study. It is just another push for socialism.
   Bah!

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That was the hypothesis, then it is tested against the data to confirm or disprove it, the data confirms that hypothesis.
      By an incredibly respectable research and statistical organization I might add.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         - and this should make you pretty happy, Josak!

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            Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            No it makes me sad, the children of today are the adults of tomorrow and we are ruining our next generation through poverty and neglect, there is no greater disservice a nation can do to it's future.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               The drop out rate in LA means that the kids are smarter than the school system.  The kids are alright in America!

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                  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  No it does not and quite obviously the results show they are not. Not only the results of this study but also our incarceration rates show we are failing our children as a country.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     The school system needs to be changed. When our students drop out they exercise their freedom of speech. Its a GOOD THING!

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                        Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        When children drop out of school thus raising their chances of incarceration, lowering their average income, reducing their life expectancy, massively increasing their chance of ending up on government support etc. that is a good thing? That is horrible.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   We need more freedom. Not less. We need school vouchers. The school system and the government is failing our kids.  The insistence on the status quo must give way to
   power to the community!
   What we need is a revolution in education!
   Dr. Maria Montessori had the answer.
   If we read her books, we will have the answer.
   Respect the inner life of the child.
   Respect the child's interest and joy of life.
     Respect the right of mankind to possess
               self-command
                   through
             independence and
                   freedom.
   The government must stay
           OUT OF THE WAY.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years ago

   The love of independence in/of human nature will always triumph, in spite of the Doubting Thomases who mistakenly feel, in their impulsive panicky mental state, that the government must become/be Daddy/Mommy.
   
   (BTW let's get rid of O MAMA care!)

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This really is a sad desperate attempt to change the topic entirely, the thread is about our failing education system compared to those of other nations not your small government ideals.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It really is all quite connected. Do try to keep up.

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            Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Ok sure,
            
            The US's "freedom" to leave children in comparably terrible conditions and poverty has produced the biggest prison population in the world and the worst child well being conditions in the first world. Congratulations! RAH RAH for small governemnt!
            
            The US's "Freedom" has left poor children trapped and decidedly unfree in poverty and lacking the education or support necessary to get out leaving the US with the highest poverty rate in the first world and the lowest economic mobility in the first world. Awesome!
            
            In comparison those evil socialist nations have tiny crime rates, tiny recidivism rates and much better child well being.
            
            YAY for small government! Continue to enlighten us on how much better it is
            
            What a joke.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I won't bother.  Some people have so little faith in the strength of human nature/spirit. I won't trouble anyone who does not agree with what I have already posted.
               
               I believe that all Americans have the potential to be man/woman enough to live in independence and freedom. Otherwise God wouldn't have sent us the founding fathers! Thank you, George Washington. May you please stop rolling over in your grave and reincarnate already!
               

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                  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Simply avoiding the facts.

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   Will Apseposted 11 years ago

   Personally I think there is a lot going on in these stats. It certainly isn't all about money spent on schools (although that matters) it is also about the way kids feel about themselves. Bullying won't go away with extra money, for example. It would ease with greater respect and empathy. And with fewer examples of violence and aggression.
   
   But I reckon one factor is how much you load onto the children and how much the challenge of growing up is shared around. In the US and UK the price of failure at school is so high and kids are made very aware of that very early on.
   
   In a country like Italy kids still have large stable communities and relatives of all kinds to fall back on in times of difficulty.

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   Melovyposted 11 years ago

   Very interesting data Will. I noticed that the UK is actually high for quality of school life (4th with Iceland, Norway and the Netherlands above us.) That suggests that in the UK at least, schooling is not the main issue.
   
   I have just read an excellent book by Kristin Neff who has spend years researching the effects of focusing on self-esteem rather than self-compassion. She sees self-esteem as looking for differences between ourselves and others and striving to be above average or "better than." It stands to reason that 50% of the population cannot be above average for everything and so this focus is stressful from the outset. But it also leads to over-inflated opinions of one's own achievement which Neff (and many others) see as a major factor in the rise of narcissistic behaviour. At the same time, a sense of self-worth obtained from achievements is a very fragile and dependent on constantly defending those achievements. The result is alienation and fear.
   
   Self-compassion (the name of Neff's book) allows us to make mistakes, and as importantly, it looks for common human experience. When we feel connected we are happier.
   
   Neff's research totally backs up your views above regarding empathy and respect: "It certainly isn't all about money spent on schools (although that matters) it is also about the way kids feel about themselves. Bullying won't go away with extra money, for example. It would ease with greater respect and empathy."

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      Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, apart from needing to prove you are worth something, you will encounter a great deal of judgmentalism in the Anglo world about the most trivial things (from your sexuality to the ties that you wear, or don't wear).
      
      I've been in Thailand for several years now and it is amazing how people just accept others for what they are. It is still shocking to me that people will reveal every facet of their personality on the first meeting if they happen to feel like it. Or they won't tell you anything. Either way, they expect no come back.

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         Melovyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         How wonderful that there is so much acceptance. There's much we Westerners have yet to learn in this respect!

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            Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I would be wrong to overemphasise the advantages of acceptance. A little moralizing would not go astray with the lousy drivers, corrupt officials and the massive sex industry. But it is very much more relaxed on an interpersonal level.

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