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America is a Christian nation, you say...?

  1. Zelkiiro profile image85
    Zelkiiroposted 4 years ago

    A little bit of history will show you that's not necessarily the case...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQrD1ty-yzs

    1. Credence2 profile image88
      Credence2posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "Christian Nation" is just a label, is the behavior of the people and society consistent with those tenets or no? Do you walk the talk? The rightwinger speaks of this Christian nation, but they are hypocrites. So what else is new?

    2. Moshka profile image60
      Moshkaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The video is a gross misrepresentation of the founding fathers of the United States. Although some of them were deists (about five of them), the rest were of some Christ based religion. It also asserts that the first amendment of the constitution implies that church and state should be separate when it has no such verbiage.

      This is simply revisionist history typical of the liberal agenda.

  2. Mighty Mom profile image91
    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

    Is it just me, or does it feel like we are in the midst of Crusades II?

    1. HowardBThiname profile image89
      HowardBThinameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think we're in the midst of Crusades II.

      Just the opposite, actually. As an atheist, I'm happy to see religion removed from the public arena, but there is a growing problem.

      Those who want to get rid of Christian influence sometimes make the mistake of bolstering Islam to counter Christianity. Talk about jumping out of the frying pan into the fire!

      The best thing to do is to not to favor ANY religion in any public or taxpayer-supported place. No chapels in universities, no changing of schedules for Ramadan students. No respect of any religion in these institutions at all.

      Citizens are still free to worship in private and at their various houses of worship. That's the only thing that's going to eventually stop these religious extremists of all flavors from trying to influence others.

      1. Mighty Mom profile image91
        Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That's very sensible but a really, really uphill battle. With widespread practical considerations.
        Question:
        I imagine you would prefer that people not swear on a Bible in courts or to take the oath of public office. Do you think it would be appropriate to swear on the Declaration of Independence instead? Something else?

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Does it really make a person more honest to put their hand on a copy of an old book?  Or is a person's word only as good as they are themselves, and a bowl of oatmeal would do as well?

          1. psycheskinner profile image80
            psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Swearing on the Bible is optional already.

          2. Mighty Mom profile image91
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            A bowl could get messy, gloppy or cold.
            How about a BOX of Oatmeal?
            lol
            http://hairstylecrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/3f3e2_Men_Hairstyle_Quaker-Oats.jpg

            And yes, psycheskinner. I hadn't thought about the Bible part being optional.
            But they do make you raise your RIGHT hand.
            Does that somehow make people more truthful than raising their LEFT hand?
            smile

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well...he looks honest, anyway! big_smile

              At least as long as he isn't a "lefty"...

              1. Mighty Mom profile image91
                Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You do know that only left-handed people are in their right minds, right?
                smile
                P.S. Wasn't Nixon a Quaker?
                Nuff said!

  3. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    That video looks like nothing more than propaganda. The rejection of the Christian faith and the acceptance of an Almighty God has been going on before Jesus the Christ was born.

    One need not speculate as to if America WAS a Christian nation one only needs to travel back in time progressively and since the Constitution document was written for the people than the people demonstrated their preference for a Christian nation.

    Consider the pilgrims:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrim_(Plymouth_Colony)

    1. Zelkiiro profile image85
      Zelkiiroposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The Pilgrims, largely comprised of Puritans, fled England because England's government was practically a theocracy, and they wanted some room to breathe.

      That's right, England's religious atmosphere was too suffocating for the Puritans, and so they sailed to the New World so that they could finally live in a place where the government (or lack thereof) wasn't polluted with religion.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Where they formed what was arguably the most religiously repressive societies the country ever saw.  Ironic, no?

      2. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Zelkiiro

        just in case you missed this part of the link:

        (after the founding of Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607) and later the oldest continuously inhabited English settlement in what was to become the United States of America

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          But Jamestown was a combination of commercial venture and penal colony.  Religion played very little part in the founding of Jamestown.

          1. Ericdierker profile image79
            Ericdierkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Mostly Penal for not being the right sect of Christians.

        2. Ericdierker profile image79
          Ericdierkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That is hogwash. I live in the Great American Southwest. We have settlements far older that are continously inhabited. Besides that as of 1776 of so Jamestown was no longer English and ceased to be inhabited by English.
          White Christian Spanish settled this land starting in about the mid 1500's. Or are you a west coast xenophobe? LOL

      3. Ericdierker profile image79
        Ericdierkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That was so they could practice "their" religion. Your deeper point makes clear they were all Christian.

        1. SpanStar profile image60
          SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ericdierker

          I concur with you.

        2. Zelkiiro profile image85
          Zelkiiroposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, many of them were Christians. That still doesn't make the United States a Christian nation any more than Japan's primarily-Shintoist population makes them a Shinto nation.

          In case you missed it, John Adams clearly stated, "[T]he government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion," and he was one of the most important among the founding fathers.

          1. profile image0
            Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You know what?
            If some of you who are so against America being a Christian Nation, would compare it to the "pagan" Nations and Muslim Nations, you might actually learn to be grateful for the Christians in this Nation.

            Syrian jihadists just got through sawing off the heads of 3 people,  one of them a Catholic priest,  and they didn't even use swift swords to do so,  they used knives and keep hacking away at them until they beheaded them;   and all the while, there was a crowd of people including children,  and most of them were eagerly taking pictures and videos,  while some chanted Allah Akbar or whatever that barbaric phrase is.
            I won't post a link here, because that's for anyone to choose whether or not to even watch the horrid stuff.  Just Google it if you want to.    I watched some of it and was about to throw up.

            It's getting really tiresome to see people (American citizens, supposedly) cutting down their own Nation, my Nation, and supposedly theirs too,  especially seeing them denounce the very hand of God that has protected them for many years.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              And the atrocities of the Pagans?  Can you list any of those, based on their "religion" of course and not on a madman running amok somewhere?

              It has always seemed to me that the majority of atrocities and barbarism has been closely associated with religion, primarily the religions of Abraham.  The naturalistic religions (including the pagans) seldom seem to produce the kind of barbaric activities that those with invisible gods do. 

              And yes, Christianity has evolved and come a long way from what it was, but it has as great a history of barbarism and bloodshed as Islam does now.

            2. profile image0
              Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              There's non Christian nations doing just fine, such as Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland...

            3. Disappearinghead profile image84
              Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Pagans tend to be a peaceful lot preferring to hug trees than get on a soapbox to rant against gays liberals and anyone who isn't a WASP.

              Whilst there are many in the Islamic community who are barbaric and care little for freedom of thought and conscience, this is no different from the Church 500 years ago. There can be nothing worse than mixing religion with politics and government, it only leads to oppression.

            4. HowardBThiname profile image89
              HowardBThinameposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              To be fair - the vast majority of our Founders were Christian to some extent.

              They were NOT, however, like today's bible-beater-type Christians.

              Even the most enlightened amongst them, like Jefferson, adhered to Christian laws. He just denounced the hocus-pocus that went with that.

              Jefferson, in fact, wrote his own version of the New Testament - the Jefferson Bible. You can probably find a free copy online somewhere. Jefferson admired the teachings of Jesus - but he didn't ascribe any superstition to the entity of Jesus. For example, Jefferson removed things like the virgin birth - talking to God, etc., from the Jefferson Bible. When Jesus died - they put Him in the cave - sealed it with a stone and left. The End. No arising, Nothing. That was the end of Jesus, according to Jefferson.

              Many Founders believed similarly. They'd just fought against a state religion and they wanted to avoid that in the New World.

              So - while our nation was founded by a "type" of Christians, it was not founded as a nation that was supposed to follow Christian beliefs.

        3. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes and no.  A great many today are quick to claim that particular sects aren't "Christian" at all - Mormonism has long suffered under the claim.

          Much of Christianity of the 1500's, and certainly the Puritans, would not be considered "Christian" today.  Their beliefs and demands of the people are too far removed from what is acceptable now.

          1. Zelkiiro profile image85
            Zelkiiroposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            WHAT IS THIS GLOWING DEVIL BOX AND HOW DO THE LETTERS ON THE DEMONBOARD GET ONTO THE DEVIL SCREEN?!

            WITCHCRAFT AND HERESY!!

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Peace, Zelkiiro, peace. 

              It is but a minor demon, with the unlikely name of microsoft doing this witchcraft.  See that little button on that black box?  It will banish the demon for a time and you shall be safe.

              1. Mighty Mom profile image91
                Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                ... not to be confused with the black button that says "Post a Reply."
                That will certainly not banish the minor demons or make you safe.
                lol

                1. Zelkiiro profile image85
                  Zelkiiroposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  A woman? Reading?! And writing?! THAT COULD LEAD TO THE WOMAN LEARNING, WHICH IS AMONG THE GRAVEST OF SINS!!

                  REPENT, WITCH!! RECANT YOUR EVILS BEFORE THE LORD!!

                2. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Good catch - for sure that one does not banish the demon.

                  But we need to do something to help poor Zelkiiro.  Perhaps if you would fly over his house and wave at him? smile

                  1. Mighty Mom profile image91
                    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    That's a great idea, Wilderness!
                    Here's my familiar with a shout-out to Zelkiiro.
                    smile

                    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/8167355_f248.jpg

    2. Ericdierker profile image79
      Ericdierkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Let me be sarcastic to prove a point. //// No most settlers and pilgrims to America were Buddhist, Shinto and Muslim. The rest were Atheists because most folks who bring their family to a new unsettled land have no faith. Most newcomers were new age and Hari Khrisna type folks and some were Aztec and Roman Pagan worshipers and don't forget the witches.
      What a funny rewrite of history that we are not a Christian nation.

  4. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago

    I'll post this here too;  it needs to be said in several threads.



    For any of you who continue to whine about the Crusades, and barbaric stuff from way back when, well, if you'll consider things, there were acts of barbaric proportions from several different sides, not just the radical sides of Christianity.
    And America, specifically, has corrected its errors of social and literal injustice.   We have a working, decent, fair legal system that's been in force for years and years.   
    Just because we have a "President" and his minions who speak defaming carp about America, doesn't mean you have to.   But as you choose!   It IS a free Country.   Freer than it should be, actually.   A Nation's decent citizens shouldn't have to listen to such insulting and accusatory stuff.

    I dare any of you who are defaming America to go live in a Muslim Nation or some other anti-Christian Nation, and stay there a while 'til you've seen what it's like,  go try to reform a Nation that NEEDS reforming,  do your civic duty and go become political activists there,  fight the Government there,  insult the radical citizens there with the same fervor that you insult us Christians here;  whine about how people don't accept homosexual "rights" there, whine about how they won't let you kill your unborn babies,  fight for women's rights THERE;   I'll bet it won't be long before you'll be running back to America with your tails between your legs crying for the land of freedom that has not only let you have your freedom,  but is even now (wrongly) catering to your obsession with forcing your personal desires into our legal system.

    Whatever barbaric things were legally condoned in America before, they're done with now.  It is a lot of other Nations that are still ignoring and/or condoning and/or participating in barbaric religious acts and terrorism,  and it's leaking into here, into my Country, mainly because many liberals are cutting down America and inviting anti-Christian sects in, and making excuses for people like the Fort Hood killer and the Boston bombers.

    Since you don't appreciate America,  try another Country.   I double dare ya.
    Since you don't appreciate Jesus/God of the Holy Bible, go worship the "gods" of your choosing, in their territory;  I'm sure they'll welcome you, until they get tired of you and start sawing your heads off with knives in front of eager video-makers and little children.

    1. Zelkiiro profile image85
      Zelkiiroposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think anyone saws heads off in Japan. Or Denmark. Or Finland. Or Sweden. Or Norway. Or The Netherlands. Or Belgium. Or Canada.

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Unfortunately, it isn't about living in an anti-Christian nation.  It is about living in any nation where religion IS the government. 

      You are absolutely correct that Christianity as a religion and a people have grown and evolved - it and they have outgrown the barbarism still shown by others in the world.  They have done so primarily by acceptance; acceptance of other religions and acceptance of other, different people. 

      Christianity, more than any other religious force, played a large part in our country, but ever since we became that country Christianity has not ruled.  Our forefathers, both Christian and not, were wise enough to stop the evil that inevitably accompanies such a thing dead in it's tracks.  And with the constitution, the depravity and repression of such religious (and Christian) groups as the puritans died out over time.  We still see a resurgence now and then - the skinheads of northern Idaho are such a group - but they never last long as they do not control the country, either.  ALL the people control it, whether Christian or not.

      If you look back at the actions you mention (crusades, inquisition, etc.) they all happened when religion WAS government, whether in name or not.  The people of the time were a part of the problem, but a far bigger part was that the governing structure of whole nations was the Christian religion.

      So when you attack those that insist that NO religion, Christian or not, be allowed to govern our country, insist that neither Christians nor any other religion be allowed to determine our way of life from their beliefs, understand that.  That every time religion, Christian or not, rules a country it becomes a rule by Satan, not God.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely and it doesn't matter whether the one being corrupted is Christian or Muslim.  Religion, whether Christian or not, whether Protestant, Catholic or Mormon, does not make a tenable master for a nation.  It always sounds wonderful (as long as it's your personal version of religion) but in practice is has always been a total failure.

    3. profile image0
      Deepes Mindposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry, I must disagree to a degree here. Yes, America has come a long way from what it was, but the legal system is still a long way from being what I would call fair. Does this seem fair to you?



      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8171356_f248.jpg


      This is an example of our working, fair, decent legal system at work. There are several other examples of how penalties have been harsher for men than women for the same crimes, blacks than whites, Christians than non Christians, etc...

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I agree it's not always fair,  and some issues slip through the cracks, and there are mistakes made.   But it's the best that can be done, it seems.   Each case needs to be decided on an individual basis.   I think adhering to that instead of the now-popular idea of using one case to determine the outcome of all other cases, would be good.   Although there has to be, of course, precedents taken into account.  It's just become a mess of political activism in a lot of ways, instead of individual cases being judged on their own merits.

        1. profile image0
          Deepes Mindposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Exactly why I stated that it isn't working or fair. We are still dealing with people in prison for crimes that they did not commit as well as the other things I mentioned. There are so many double standards that it isn't funny

          1. Mighty Mom profile image91
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Amen (not meant in a religious sense) to that.
            I think I will start a "legal system horror stories" thread.
            See what kind of personal experiences others have had...

  5. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    As I stand here on this podium I say "Let's not have any religious people lead this country." "Oh but wait-Let's not have any nonreligious people lead this country." "Okay, Whose left?-NO ONE."

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Anyone may lead, religious or not, as long as they are able to keep their beliefs and the needs of the nation separate.

      For the most part, our politicians can do that - there are enough checks and balances built in to prevent abuse.  The bigger problem is when large groups of people, succumbing to huge PR campaigns, begin to insist their politician put their religion before the country.  When that happens, what little ethics the politician has collapses in favor of votes to keep them in power.

      1. Ericdierker profile image79
        Ericdierkerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Amen. This is a great nation. Acknowledging the Spiritual side is appropriate. Being guided by it is good.
        But my peoples who represent me and my neighbors must not have a spiritual ring in their nose that tells them what to do. OTOH if being truthful and pronouncing a total direction of spiritualism is what got someone elected then they should remain true to that position.
        Some of us crazy Christians see God as love. And we usurp all that is good and call it Christ like. In that sense I believe our Nation to be Christian.

  6. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    Wilderness,

    If we are to accept the premise that we should be devoid of religious beliefs as it pertains to Americans than my understanding of what you're proposing is that all the veterans who fought for this country and who come back in a coffin should not have any ceremonial service for their contribution are rather that death?

    If someone like the president dies in office then we as Americans shouldn't bother having any religious service for that death and we as Americans should simply go about our lives as if there death was meaningless?

    The tragic event that occurred in New York with so many deaths simply means we as a people (Americans) should not be wasting our time over the death of so many Americans because we should be a country without religion-correct?

    To accept these actions I Frankly see these as a pathetic, lame excuses for a country.
    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8171728.jpg

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What an odd question!  It almost seems as if you labor under the assumption that grief, sorrow, remembrance and honor of our dead is limited to those with a belief in ancient myths.

      Have you never attended a secular funeral?  A wake?  Have you never known a non-believer that lost a loved one?  Do you not honor our fallen soldiers, god-fearing or not? 

      Have you ever visited Arlington Cemetary, with uncounted rows of soldiers?  Have you seen the changing of the guard or the tomb of the unknown soldier?  Have you noticed the thousands of US flags there or the lack of Jesus pictures?

      Did you look at the photo you posted - the one with the flag but no cross or Jesus picture? 

      Personally, I find a wake or funeral with speakers consisting of friends and relatives of the dead far, far more moving and meaningful that a priest that hardly knew the deceased haranguing the crowd with exhortations to believe or burn in hell.   

      http://s3.hubimg.com/u/8171862_f248.jpg

      Arlington Cemetary, Washington DC.  Without obvious, in your face, religious overtones.

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Wilderness,

        I absolutely disagree with you and I do find it odd that you would concern yourself with the religious ceremony of a country. That may not be a cross at John F Kennedy's Funeral Procession Put on by the Government, it was a funeral event shared by millions of people in and out of America.

        For those people who don't believe in prayer they have their opportunity for a moment of silence-Frankly I have no idea what that does? They don't believe in a God so what is their silence doing?

        Now you can accept a non-religious base belief system all you want that however does not make your selections any better than one who chooses a moral religious ceremony. I also find it odd that those who have no ties to religious ceremony why would they even bother with a ceremony?

  7. Mighty Mom profile image91
    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

    Since no one has brought this up, I will:
    ”Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship…I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between church and State.” – Thomas Jefferson


    The legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion would imply, rather strongly, that the government NOT be Christian or any other religion.

    1. profile image0
      Sooner28posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Great quote!

    2. Quilligrapher profile image90
      Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hey MM,

      Since no one has brought this up, I will.

      The notion that the United States is a “Christian nation” will not be found in any official document. In fact, the exact opposite is true.

      Ten years after the Constitutional Convention, the country assured the world that the United States was a secular state, and that its negotiations would adhere to the rule of law, not the dictates of the Christian faith. The U.S. Senate unanimously ratified the English text of the Treaty of Tripoli in 1796. It states, “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…” This exact text, written by Joel Barlow, is the version duplicated, distributed, and voted upon in the U.S. Senate. {1}

      Furthermore, President John Tyler, in an 1843 letter, wrote, “The United States have adventured upon a great and noble experiment, which is believed to have been hazarded in the absence of all previous precedent — that of total separation of Church and State. No religious establishment by law exists among us.” {2}
      http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
      {1} Frank Lambert (2006). [u]The Founding Fathers and the Place of Religion in America. Princeton University Press. p. 11
      {2} http://www.salon.com/2009/04/14/christian_nation/

      1. Mighty Mom profile image91
        Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        There you go with your facts and sources again, Quill.
        lol

  8. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    It is possible for the truth to be twisted and my experience has been it happens quite often and certainly here in America.

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Vid … FORM=VIRE1

 
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