The game is over

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   IslandBitesposted 11 years ago

   "The game is over. We have to get this done" republican rep. Peter King told Anderson Cooper Tuesday night. King called it "madness" for Republicans to follow Ted Cruz: "It was absolute madness to be saying we're going to shut down the government, to defund Obamacare. It never made sense."
   
   According to King, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) "is a total fraud from the start," and his call to defund Obamacare "never could have succeeded. I can't imagine going into battle knowing you can't win and yet continuing to tell your people you are winning. It's just -- it's like a never-never land. Parallel universes, whatever you want to call it."
   
   “It’s very, very serious,” John McCain told the New York Times. “Republicans have to understand we have lost this battle, as I predicted weeks ago, that we would not be able to win because we were demanding something that was not achievable.”

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It was madness, it was despicable and it was pathetic that the GOP thought they could modify the democratic process to make law through budgeting.  Anyone that did so is unworthy of the office they hold.
      
      It was madness, it was despicable and it was pathetic that the Democratic party thought they should withhold jobs and earnings from common citizens in an effort to force the house to do it's job.  Holding our people hostage for a political gain is unconscionable and anyone that did so is unworthy of the office they hold.   Our citizens are NOT pawns in the political game of posturing and one-up-manship being carried out in our capital. 
      
      Every legislator that voted for EITHER action needs to find a new line of work - they are unfit to lead our country.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      McCain is disappointingly soft;  he caves on almost everything.
      
      Boehner and his group have my respect for standing ground as long as they could.   From everything I can see, they only "caved" because Obama wouldn't even give an inch, so they did what had to be done now for the good of the people.
      It is Obama who is responsible for the shutdown, and responsible for standing in a corner and saying NO NO NO, clinging to his baby legislation like it's his very life and ignoring the lives of Americans.
      He has and is using (and apparently will continue to use) his "bully pulpit" in a very literal fashion,  and gets by with placing blame on anyone and everyone else that he can use as scapegoats.
      
      How LONG will it take for some Americans to see that Obama's propoganda is dividing this Nation more and more with every issue that comes up?   How LONG will it take for them to see that he's slowly and steadily labeling the Republican Party (and any other conservative) who gets in his way, as "terrorists",  "stupid", "unpatriotic", and a myriad of other such hateful un-called-for accusations?    The man is cruel, egotistical, immature, tyrannical, vengeful, manipulative, ..........the list goes on and on and on.     And yet because he's the "President",  people are afraid to call him out on the carpet for his outlandish carp.     Amazing.
      
      What Boehner did is show that this battle may be over, but the war isn't.     
      Wouldn't even have to be a war if Obama wasn't so incredibly aloof and uncaring about everything except himself.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         He is caring about his agenda. He wants help the down-trodden. It 's in his mission statement. The rest of us keep getting in the way. Cut him some slack, Brenda!

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            Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            If he wanted to help the down-trodden, he'd be living in some third-world Country actually trying to help the down-trodden.
            
            Eh....I hope you were being sarcastic in your reply, Kathryn?

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               Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Hey Boehner! Walmart has facial tissues and backbones on sale! Better stock up, you spineless crybaby! Can't believe that you would let those useless teabagging pieces of s**t treat you like a red headed stepchild! We'll see if you and your GOP idiots are still around next year.

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Would you like information on how to delete your ill-conceived ill-mannered words?

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                     Paul Wingertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     What makes you think I have any intention on deleting my words? I was actually being nice about it.

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                  Don Wposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Well how incredibly juvenile. Then again . . .
                  
                  Republicans just got slammed. They stepped up to the President and got slapped around big time. Obama wanted to break the GOP over the debt ceiling and boy did he break them. Ouch. Bohner, you just got schooled son.
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  Good grief. I'm morphing into a troll. Someone pass me a copy of Plato's Republic to neutralize the symptoms.

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                     Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Wow, that's a Grade-A rage-inducing trollface.
                     
                     I think I'll use it.

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         Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It's this attitude that is going to get the Tea Party members swept out of office sooner than they know...
         
         Oh wait, they already rigged their districts to make sure that it can't happen....
         
         Boehner wants to work with Democrats, Obama wants to work with Boehner. Unfortunately, this fringe extreme group is holding everything up.
         
         Its sort of sad when Jim DeMint decided he could hold more power by running a lobbyist group as opposed to actually being in Congress and he was right.

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         PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         How LONG will it take for backward, obstructionist dinosaurs living in a bubble to finally die off so the rest of us can move forward without having to indulge their fear-driven tantrums?

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            Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            "....backward..."?
            "....to finally die off........"?
            
            Oh wow.   What a cruel-hearted thing to say.
            
            How LONG will it take for Obama-copiers to stop making personal insinuations and attacks on people who are simply discussing the actions of our Officials as they have the right to, and the problem of how so many people follow him unquestioningly.?

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               psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You seem to be demonstrating exactly the behavior you are criticizing?

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You seem to be ignoring the fact of the insinuations made by Pretty Panther.
                  I didn't make a personal point directed at her about "dinosaurs" and hoping people would "die off".
                  Really, if you want to defend that kind of rhetoric,  that's your problem.   But don't ask me if I'm doing the same thing, because I did not and am not, so obviously that it ain't even funny. 
                  Some people like to make things personal and don't care what they say or what they insinuate.    I don't respect that type of "discussion" because it isn't discussion;  it's personal hatefulness. 
                  It's been done several times around here.   By liberals and other Obama-supporters.   I personally have never seen that done by a conservative.   It's a tactic that's just wrong.   AND so horrifying!    Really.     I don't understand how people can say they hope conservatives will "die off" soon.    What kind of mentality and personality DOES and SAYS that kind of thing??

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                     Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I would make a comparison between Tea Party Conservatives and the Nazi Party (while casually joking that the Conservatives haven't yet rounded up poor people into concentration camps), but you know what?
                     
                     At least the Nazi Party brought Germany out of debt, and at least the Nazi Party weren't afraid of scientific advancement (they were the first to put anything into space!). The only reason they remain more evil than the Tea Party is because, like I said, the Tea Party haven't yet enacted their plan to wipe out the poor and rule over the country with their backwards, primitive religion.
                     
                     Yeah yeah, Godwin's Law, yada yada.

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                        Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        If I respond to this honestly, I will be banned for life.
                        ( Which is probably a pretty good idea.)

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               PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I presume you and the Ted Cruz followers will die of old age, just like everyone else?  I don't view what I said as hateful, especially considering you probably believe you are going to heaven or some such lovely place.
               
               As far as "backward," I don't think that is hateful, either, just an observation.

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               crankaliciousposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               One of the characteristics of many conservatives is that they seem to have no ability to understand complexity or gradation or anything mildly intellectual. In fact, they generally rally against anything intellectual, as though it were evil. Talking about a political movement dying off is hardly personally offensive. I mean, if you said something like: "I hope liberalism dies off," I wouldn't be offended. PrettyPanther used a reference to dinosaurs to make this statement, meaning that the use of the term "dies off" can be directly tied to extinction. It's a fairly benign statement. In fact, turning this dialogue toward a discussion on personal attacks is a way to change the course of the conversation and is, by its very nature, a rhetorical tactic, not unlike referring to our leader as Hitler (which liberals also did with Bush). It's a dead form of argument.
               
               Anyway, isn't the main goal of Obamacare to provide health care to the poor? And this is the thing that conservatives are fighting so hard to stop. Sounds like the work of Jesus to me.

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                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  No, the main goal of Obamacare is to equalize the riches of individual citizens.  To "share the wealth" if you will, which always has an ultimate effect of decreasing overall standards of living as the incentive to produce is taken away.

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                     crankaliciousposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Where in the world do you get this stuff? You're basically saying that Obama is a Communist. This is such ridiculous hogwash that it barely deserves a response. It's silly, uneducated, misinformed trash. Obamacare is based on a conservative idea, which came from the response to Hillarycare in the 90's. The idea that the government would subsidize people who couldn't afford healthcare by having them purchase that healthcare from private insurers thereby redirecting those subsidies into private industry. If you believe that Obamacare is Communism, then I can understand working so hard to stop it, but you should also probably rallying against people who believe the earth is round.

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                        wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Communist, no.  Socialist, most definitely.
                        
                        It is my major bone of contention with Obama (that and he lies as do all politicians) - that he has such socialist tendencies that given time he would certainly destroy the country.  Giving people that don't earn it as much as the workers and producers of the country earn is quite destructive over time.
                        
                        Label it how you will, ascribe to whatever party you will, the US cannot afford to provide healthcare of the quality demanded to all it's citizens.  To try and do so, by requiring some to pay for all, can only result in financial disaster.

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                           crankaliciousposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           What do we do about people who can't afford health insurance who end up in emergency rooms? We're already paying for that. By providing health insurance and giving people the opportunity to get preventative care, you save money on the back end and dramatically improve the quality of life. And he's not even close to a Socialist. He's just more socialist than, say, George Bush. That doesn't make him a Socialist.

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                              Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE IN A FREE COUNTRY!
                              Its not the same as car insurance.
                              It just
                              
                                                                                             ISN'T!

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                                 wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Then we are not very free.
                                 
                                 Nothing new in that.

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                                 crankaliciousposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 How isn't it?
                                 
                                 Maybe we should get rid of that stupid, Socialist, car insurance mandate.

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                                    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    - because a car we can do without. It is not optional to own a body. Unless we are still sleeping in the arms of the angels, we are mandated by the material world to own a body! it is TYRANNY of the highest order to force us to insure our bodies. Why did we vote for this guy again? oh yeah, we cared about everyone...except ourselves.
                                    
                                    
                                    (Warning: thinking out loud:
                                    I really need to produce that T shirt:
                                    
                                                                                  *Step Away from the Eggs!* )
                                    
                                    Women: Until the government stops forcing us to insure our own bodies in an economic climate that is hostile to a percolating economy... stop factory production!
                                    Its only logical.

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                                       wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       The inference (auto insurance = health insurance) is that we CAN do without a body.  There are tens of thousands of people without car insurance because they don't own a car - that must mean that we can dispose of our body and not owe health insurance either.
                                       
                                       And sure enough, it is true!  A quick swig of hemlock and you won't have to purchase Obamacare after all!  It might even be worth it, considering the direction of nanny care the country is taking...

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                              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              You can treat them.   You can boot them back to the street, You can ship them off to another state, like Nevada does with it's mentally ill that show up there.  You can send them to Mexico.  You can drown them if you choose.
                              
                              I don't know what you would like to do with them, I just know that requiring people to buy something they don't want and to pay for others to buy it as well isn't the answer.  We can't afford it no matter how much you would like to ignore that, an no matter how much you might think we can.

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                                 crankaliciousposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 That's very Christian of you.
                                 
                                 Truthfully, the answer to lowering health care costs is to let people who can't afford health care to die or to deny them service. Interesting we don't talk about that. How much do the uninsured cost this country? I bet it's in the tens of billions.
                                 
                                 If we save enough money in health care costs by requiring people to buy health insurance, then it is affordable.

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                                    wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    You don't save money in country wide health care costs by adding to the cost with insurance company profits.  That's a no brainer.  Buying an insurance policy does NOT cut costs for the country - at best it shifts costs from one person to another, but those costs only go up when insurance is involved.
                                    
                                    Had Obamacare been done without paying insurance company profits, it might work with decreased levels of care.  As is there is no chance. 
                                    
                                    Add in that buying health insurance does not buy health care and you have a real problem as the poor cannot cover the co-pays or deductibles of the policies being offered.  They will still show up at the ER and still can't pay their bill - you're right back where you started plus paying that profit margin.

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                                       crankaliciousposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       It's a fact that preventative health care saves money. Like prenatal visits, for example.
                                       
                                       In order to truly reduce health care costs, the uninsured must be denied access to health care because that emergency care is done on the backs of paying patients. Further, we need to outlaw all pregnancies where there is a genetic defect, like Downs Syndrome because it's a drain on the health care system and on insurance.
                                       
                                       Basically, all the Obamacare opponents know they don't like Obamacare, but they sure don't have a clue about what to do and don't offer up any solutions.
                                       
                                       Did you not basically state that part of your solution is to let people die?

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                  PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Thank you for having the patience to explain.  Mine expired long ago.

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                     wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Understandable - liberals have a definite lack of intellectualism.  They often think that if something is moral, for instance, it is both possible and economical.  Fallacies, of course, but often presented by the liberal mind as obvious.

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                        PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        LOL, that's one funny statement.  "They often think that if something is moral, for instance, it is both possible and economical."
                        
                        Um, the first example of that statement that comes to mind is the conservative's insistence on abstinence education (instead of sex education combined with access to birth control pills) as a way to prevent teen pregnancies, even though abstinence education has been consistently shown to be ineffective and definitely not the more economical solution.
                        
                        Any time you make such a vast generalization, you are wrong.

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                           wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes - the sex education thing is much like claiming Obamacare is a good thing because it is the moral thing to do.  That it will bankrupt the country into a return to third world medicine is best left swept under the carpet just as the results of abstinence is.
                           
                           I thought it went well with the insinuation that conservatives are all stupid as well...

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                              PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Actually, that is not what he said.  Remember that part about understanding "complexity or gradation."

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                              crankaliciousposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Okay, wilderness, so you've proven that you respect science. So, that's good. Thank you. Very refreshing. Frankly, I'm not that gung-ho for Obamacare, but trying to predict the future is a fool's errand. What's your proof that it will bankrupt the country?

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                        PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        By the way, crankalicious said "many conservatives" so while his statement is a generalization, he at least qualifies it not to include all conservatives.  You, on the other hand, were not quite so intellectual in your labeling.

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                           wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           But I'm a conservative, or least partially so.  I have no intellectual capacity!

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                              PrettyPantherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              He didn't say that either.  LOL

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   PrettyPantherposted 11 years ago

   An enjoyable 10-second video:
   
   http://youtu.be/1LOYh7zhwF0

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3. 91

   crankaliciousposted 11 years ago

   You've never seen a conservative display personal hatefulness?
   
   Do you realize that when you say something like that, you completely lose all credibility?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I've never seen a conservative ON THIS SITE display the kind of personal hatefullness that was just displayed toward me, no I haven't.   Maybe it has happened around here, I dunno.   But I've seen several instances of liberals who've spouted the same kind of rhetoric as what we're talking about here.   If you've seen conservatives say such horrific things around here, then you're free to point those out.   I'm talking about what just happened to me and what I've seen happen to other conservatives around here.   Do you understand?
      And yeah it's very offensive, very demeaning, just plain wrong.    It's parallel to the rhetoric that's been coming from the White House for a long long time.    So obviously, the people who say such things think they have some right to cut down their fellow man like that because the man in the White House and his supporters often do it.     It's appalling.
      
      Yeah, looks like the game isn't over yet.   Probably never will be until there is actually a caring, honest, non-manipulative person in power,  because some people can't seem to sort out the issues and see the truth by themselves,  they simply ape the words and behavior that they see on a public podium.

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         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I would suggest that you are not viewing the data objectively.  I've seen you give as nasty as you get. 
         
         The stuff we give tends to seem milder because we thing we are speaking the truth. But of course everyone thinks that.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Um, nope you haven't seen me "give as nasty as I get".    So please refrain from lying about me.
            I've given defense, and yes I've sometimes had to take the offense before too, to take up for myself and explain things even though they were evident already (just like right now in straightening out your erroneous words about me),   but I've NEVER insinuated that I hope a certain group of people DIE OFF because they oppose the great nasty Obama,  or for disliking Bush, or for ANY reason at all,  ESPECIALLY making that insinuation in a thinly-veiled personal insult.
            
            So stand corrected.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Someone who won't mind if WE get in the way. Keep up the good work, Brenda.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you Kathryn.
            It's a breath of fresh air when someone actually stands up for what's right and honest.

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   crankaliciousposted 11 years ago

   http://www.wane.com/news/local/shopping … -as-hitler

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      Silverspeederposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That's a bit bad isn't it? Comparing Obama to Hitler, the biggest mass murderer in history.......
      
      Apart from Stalin that is.........
      
      
      Oh and Mao of course

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   Reality Bytesposted 11 years ago

   Small point:
   
   Obama is trying to force upon the rest of the nation what Massachusetts has already figured out.
   
   Guess what, the rest of the country is not Massachusetts!  We do everything better here in the commonwealth. what works here will not work for the rest of the country because basically, and once again, y'all are not Massachusetts!  It is not a small difference, the difference is staggering.  Sometimes I wish we here in the Commonwealth could separate ourselves from the anchor that is the rest of the union!
   
   
   
   An opinionated Masshole

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   Brenda Durhamposted 11 years ago

   And now, hopefully,  IF mean-speaking-hateful-speaking people will give room, the actual discussion, legitimate discussion,  that's sporadic here can continue on this very-relevant subject.
   
   (I've been reading the comments with interest now that I've also had my say, and some of you are so spot-on.     (wilderness, your posts are increasingly attracting my respect and interest.........just wanted to say that, since we so often are on opposite sides of the issues)..)

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   salah42posted 11 years ago

   It's this attitude that is going to get the Tea Party members swept out of office sooner than they know
   
   http://www.sadasoft.net/7638/realplayer.html

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