Private Sector vs Big Government

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   Will-Power vs Wishful Thinking
   Republicans vs Democrats
   People vs Politicians
   Individual State Rights vs Totalitarianism of Federal Government
   Conservatives vs Liberals
   
   Have at it!
   
   ( No we cannot be on the same page...
   Sad but true.)

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      rhamsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      What is funny is that everybody talks of change. Either it be on the governments side which usually is a defensive move to allay any responsibility or on the electorates side who thinks they can effect a change with single election cycle. The electorate are just plain lazy when it comes to elections and the running of government. We think that there is a silver bullet to end the problems. We keep repeating history and expect different results. What people don't understand is that we are still in charge for the time being and look how well we have worked together to get nowhere. Partisan politics is how we remain because we must love it that way. Look how far apart we are on any subject. Until we find a way to talk to each other and accept compromise this is as good as it will get. This country has taken over two hundred years to get to where it currently is, how long should it take to get it to work for us?

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         wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I don't really think most people are that far apart, OR so unwilling to compromise (although not so sure about the second ).
         
         It is almost as if the VIP's in both parties are very deliberately requiring such nonsense from the politicians, most likely an effort to maintain their own power and control.  Even to the point that one must wonder if the top party hacks on both sides are in collusion to maintain the farce...

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            John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly, couldn't have put it better myself 
            
            There's a saying in this country, and probably yours too - it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

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               retief2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

               On this you and I will agree, nothing is more certain than government interference.
               
               Benjamin Franklin said, "The only things certain in life are death and taxes."
               
               but,
               
               "Death and taxes may be certain, but we don't have to die every year." -- Unknown

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            rhamsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            "one must wonder if the top party hacks on both sides are in collusion to maintain the farce..." I have wondered this many times myself.

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               wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               So maybe I'm neither paranoid or becoming a conspiracy nut.  Or if I am I'm not alone.
               
               Truly, though, I do begin to wonder that sometimes - it is just too virulent, too vicious for no apparent gain except to maintain the system.

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                  rhamsonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  I think it begins with the large amounts of money that turns them at first and once they have it they wield the power that comes with it. Once they make their exit either though death or retirement there seems to be another one infected by the same wants.

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         maxoxam41posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Rhamson you speak as if "people" were intelligent. If they were we would know it, wouldn't we? The problem is that we represent the minority.
         Kathryn, your title is a contradiction. You can't oppose them since they work for the same interest. Big government implying action in the name of and for the people has always been an illusion.

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      Credence2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      In your presentation of opposite concepts and ideas the fact  is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

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      retief2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I no longer believe that there is a middle, rather the middle is arrived at through conflict.  This is the primary reason why there has been a slow drift to the left in America.  Just as all fantasy, the fantasy of the left is far more appealing than reality and reality is conservative.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         And in the end...reality is more fun than fantasy.
         Really?
         Yes, really.

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         John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Really! I see the right as getting a stranglehold on the worlds economies, pushing the left further and further adrift.

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            retief2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I guess there is reason for hope, after all.

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               John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Seems strange for anybody to hope for oppression!

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                  Silverspeederposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Whichever side holds power the other side will be oppressed!

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                     John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Except "side" suggests some sort of equality, even if only in size.
                     There'll be none of that when it's the few really wealthy and the mass of slaves at their beck and call.

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                        Silverspeederposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        And of course there would be no political elite or better off under a socislist sysyem would there?
                        
                        Maybe i should have stated it diferently, something like people with diferent political ideologies will always seek to oppress the oposition.

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                           John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           False.  The right usually does, the left more often tries to liberate all.

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                              wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Liberate!  As in remove all freedom to negotiate the value of labor or "things"?  As in liberate people from their possessions, in order to give it to someone else?  That kind of "liberate"?

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                                 John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 No,you'll find it's generally the right who like to liberate other people from their possessions.

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                                    wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    Sure - it's the right that want taxes extraordinarily high in order to support the ever growing welfare system.  Gotcha.

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                                       John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes, that's right.

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                                       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       No, its the left that want taxes extraordinarily high in order to support the ever growing welfare system.

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                                          wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                          Sorry, Kathryn - the sarcasm didn't come through well.

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                              Silverspeederposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              The left is the bastion of the mediocre, it seeks to liberate the right of their high achievers and bring them down to the level of mediocrity.

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                                 John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 So the left is responsible for keeping people in low paid mediocre jobs with little or no chance of advancement!
                                 
                                 I somehow don't think so.

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                                    retief2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    Mediocrity is a hallmark of leftism.  British Leland manufactured crap, it was the zenith of British lefty nationalized industry.  Give me a capitalist running dog made automobile, please, something pretty and powerful like a Noble or a Jaguar.

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                                       John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       When British Leyland was privatised, the government sold off the profitable car division but kept the loss making commercial vehicle division.
                                       Within a few years the car division was no more but the commercial division was running at a good profit.
                                       
                                       You should take care when commenting on things outside your remit and dependent on the right wing media for your information.

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                                          retief2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                          It was British media on which I was depending, that and an auto mechanic who worked on British automobiles I knew many years ago.

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                                             John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                             Like I said "right wing media".
                                             I take it your mechanic friend didn't actually work for BL?

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                                                retief2000posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                Worked on, not for.

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                                                   John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                   So,an excellent place to view who was responsible for any fault!  Not.

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                                          Silverspeederposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                          What profitable commercial division was that then John?

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                                             John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                             As I said, the commercial division was working initially at a loss but became profitable later on whereas the profitable car division ceased to be profitable after it was privatised.

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                                                Silverspeederposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                It car division wasn't profitable when it was nationalised and as far as I can remember it never made a profit from the day it was.
                                                The unions broke the back of Longbridge with its reluctance to change and its ever increasing demands.
                                                Rover went belly up along time before the closure in 2005 the same could be said for LDV before its closure in 2009.

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                                                   John Holdenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Always the unions, never bad management! Oh well.
                                                   
                                                   BTW, the privatisations took place decades before the 2000s.

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                                                      Silverspeederposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                                      Well John from personal experience the unions did nothing to stop the decline of the industry their members worked in.
                                                      I Remember my father (who worked there from 1976 till his death in 1992) told me of the time when the unions went on strike because they were to lose the concessionary extra 5 minutes added to their tea break.
                                                      I worked there in 1992 and remember more than one section strike because someone took offence at being told to do their job. I also worked at Longbridge from 1996 until I moved to a BMW plant in 2000, I remember quite a few instances of total madness by union loonies, like the one where they all walked off the mini build because they were told to stop playing football in the new car assembly area.
                                                      
                                                      Partial nationalisation took place in 1975 after the merger of 2 motor companies in 1968, the few profitable car companies like Land Rover, Jaguar and Triumph were ruined by the decision.  After years of taxpayers money wasted at the hands of both bosses and unions the government sold it to BAe systems in 1988 who subsequently sold it to BMW although Jaguar had been acquired earlier by Ford.

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2. 77

   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   would it be accurate to say that this president cares more about the down-trodden than up-trodden?

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      - or the middle-trodden.

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