How have you personally been affected by the government shut down?

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  1. jackclee lm profile image80
    jackclee lmposted 7 months ago

    This is not a political question but a fact checking question. Just curious how the people have been affected by the shut down?
    For me, not one bit. If the news did not report on this, I would not know it. I live in Westchester county NY about 1 hour north of NYC. I am retired, my social security check comes automatically into my bank account.
    I drive to NYC once a week. I cross over bridges...
    The mail gets delivered 6 times a week.
    My garbage gets picked up twice a week and my recycling bin once a week.
    I go visit my son in DC about once a month. So far, have not noticed any disruptions...

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      I went to reserve camp sites for this summer and saw a note that govt. was shut down and there was no guarantee that the campgrounds would be open.  Unlikely, I think, as what I wanted was months out.

      But beyond that I do get a giggle at the "It's YOUR fault!  No, it's YOUR fault!".  And a belly laugh, albeit a sad one, at the democratic mantra of "We'll compromise - by refusing to authorize a single penny for the wall.  Your part of this wonderful compromise is to accept it and walk away without anything YOU want."

      1. Ewent profile image85
        Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        Republicans who aid and abet Trump are as much to blame for this shutdown as Trump is. You laugh at the democratic mantra? Really? And in the next breath you miss the Republican power drunks on another power trip? You missed that they allowed a money laundering mobster to live in the WH?

        You missed that at every opportunity your Republicans blocked EVERYTHING Obama tried to do in 8 years but now allow a mobster the right to bring this country to shame with his now 8,000 lies?

        I'd be more worried about how Mueller will use all that evidence of Trump and Freedom Caucus boys guilt over rigging an election.

    2. Carb Diva profile image94
      Carb Divaposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Your Social Security check will continue to come in because of essential employees who are working even though they are not being paid. Your bridges are probably part of the state infrastructure. The mail is an entity separate from other Federal agencies. Garbage (of course) is a city/metro issue and has nothing to do with the operation of the Federal government.

      But if you think that the closing of the Federal government has no impact on you, think again. The government is not amorphous entity. It is real people with mortgages, utilities to pay, children to care for, and all of the daily needs that you pay for your family.

      You are retired, but if you were still daily employed and your paychecks suddenly stopped coming in, what would you do?

      Those Federal employees still have a mortgage, creditors, and daily needs.

      You probably live in a community in which Federal employees live and shop. What will happen to the stores that rely on their patronage? And that's just the beginning. What about the city/county/state programs that rely on Federal funds?

      It's not about just you and me. It's bigger than that.

      1. jackclee lm profile image80
        jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        Yes, I know that, hence my question to all. How have you been affected personally?
        Sure federal employees that are non essential are not paid now. However, it is temporary. When the government reopens, they will all receive back pay. You can view this two ways. One is perhaps our federal government is bloated. If we can survive without the non essential services of thousands of employees, perhaps they were not needed in the first place.
        All I know is, in the private sector, during time of recession, business cut back and layoff people and it happens every day of the week. Yet, our federal government just keep getting bigger every year and the spending with the zero based budgeting also gets higher regardless of economic conditions.  Perhaps that is why we are so broke as a nation.
        The federal employees just get bigger and even when they break our laws like the VA employees, they are protected by the unions so that they cannot be fired.

        1. Carb Diva profile image94
          Carb Divaposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          Jack, I worked for the Federal Government for 30 years in budget and finance and so was one of those nonessential employees. But let's take this to a scenario that everyone can probably comprehend. A hospital. Who are the essential employees--the doctors and nurses of course. But what happens to that hospital when there is no billing, no maintenance, no one to pay the utilities, issue the paychecks? Even those "non-essentials" are essential but they are in the background. They are the players that you don't see, and maybe you don't need them for your every day life but they are part of what keeps everything going. The same would be true in private industry if, for example, we paid the cashiers who operate the grocery store but not the people who stock the shelves, pay for the lighting and heat, etc.

          1. jackclee lm profile image80
            jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            I am not saying all non-essential workers are not needed...
            I am just raising the question if some of them are needed.
            In the private sector, due to innovation and technology such as computers and competition, business have become lean and workers are expected to do much more...
            It is one reason why Fed Ex can deliver packages and make a profit while the government runned USPS looses money year after year...

            1. Ewent profile image85
              Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              If national security at the borders is such a risk, no security from the TSA now on furlough is not?

              1. jackclee lm profile image80
                jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                The TSA is a joke. I fly many times and the TSA are clueless. Studies have shown they allow knifes through and yet gives 90 year old in wheel chair full body search...

                1. Ewent profile image85
                  Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  Then you obviously do not live in a state affected seriously by 9/11. We lost 11 young men and women in our town here in NJ. When you can say the TSA is a joke, you show ignorance of how the TSA has kept Newark International and the NY airports safe.

                  Studies have shown that without the TSA agents, airports would be bringing in all manner of terrorists right under our noses. All of those knives were caught and confiscated. Nice that you forgot to mention that.

                  1. jackclee lm profile image80
                    jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                    I live in the suburb of NYC. I volunteered to help the 9/11 museum..
                    The TSA is very ineffective. It is there for show. A better way is to use more profiling like they do in Israel.
                    Did you know the TSA already use profiling?
                    Have you heard of PreCheck?
                    That is exactly profiling. They have determined a group of people are very low risk for being a terrorist. They are given preferential treatment when boarding in airports.
                    https://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/ … t-security

          2. Ewent profile image85
            Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Some guys think they have all the answers. You've heard Trump claim he could be a general right? Turns out he had 5 deferrals and that bone spurs BS was diagnosed by the doctor who rented from Trump's daddy in a medical building Daddy owned on Hill Street in NY. More lies.

            Our government must NEVER be handed over to profiteering morons.

        2. Don W profile image84
          Don Wposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          "Sure federal employees that are non essential are not paid now".

          That's not factual. Employees currently not being paid include(1):

          54,000 Customs and Border Protection agents and customs officers

          4,399 DEA agents

          13,709 FBI agents

          42,000 Coast Guard employees

          2,614 ATF agents

          3,600 deputy U.S. Marshals

          16,742 Bureau of Prisons correctional officers

          53,000 TSA Employees

          Most of these are still required to report for work because they are essential federal employees, but they are not currently getting paid.

          (1) https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/n … p-shutdown

          1. jackclee lm profile image80
            jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            These are great stats.
            Our government has undergone numerous shut downs since the Reagan years...we survived those times and will survive this one.

            The question should be about why?
            If our democracy works the way it suppose to be...where elected officials do the bidding of those that elected them, there would be no reason for a shut down.
            Precisely because the public have been decived again and again by politicians that lie. They cause this shutdown by their lies and their inactivity on this important issue for years and years.
            That is why I call for a referendum.
            When the politicians refuse to act, it is up to the people to decide.

            1. Don W profile image84
              Don Wposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              "Our government has undergone numerous shutdowns since the Reagan years...we survived those times and will survive this one"

              No doubt, but that's not really the point. These employees are ordinary men and women with bills to pay. How long before the lack of income starts to significantly affect the majority of them? Some might have enough savings to fall back on. Many might not.

              There are already reports of an increase in TSA agents calling in sick (reportedly 200%-300% in some places)(1). The TSA says it's causing "minimal impact" but how long before it starts to cause significant impact? And it can only get worse, the longer the shutdown continues. Causing CBP officers to experience severe financial difficulties while trying to protect the border, can't be good for border security.

              "If our democracy works the way it suppose to be...where elected officials do the bidding of those that elected them, there would be no reason for a shut down . . ."

              Totally agree . . .

              "The majority of Americans (57%) oppose expanding the construction of walls along the nation's Southern border"(1)

              -

              "Eighty-three percent of Americans favor or strongly favor a proposal to allow "immigrants, who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children, the chance to become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements over a period of time," while 15% oppose or strongly oppose it."(2)

              -

              "Just 39% regarded building the wall as very or somewhat important. The public’s highest immigration priorities were stricter policies preventing people from overstaying visas, preventing immigrants in the U.S. illegally from receiving government benefits, and allowing those who came to the U.S. as children to remain"(3).

              . . . . if only the government would listen.

              (1) https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/04/poli … index.html

              (1)(2)https://news.gallup.com/poll/235775/ame … -daca.aspx
              (3) http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 … ay-for-it/

              1. jackclee lm profile image80
                jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                I don’t buy that statistics. Polls can be manipulated depending how the question is phrased.
                If it is true, Trump would not be elected president.
                The makn reason he was elected IMHO was to deal with the border crisis.
                He was the only one talking about it and making it front and center.
                It is the establishment politicians from both parties that do not want a wall or strigent border security. They voted in the past for a fence and then failed to fund it.

                1. Ewent profile image85
                  Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  So then those polls Trump uses are bogus too? Like the one about how he is the most successful of 44 US presidents? Or the poll that says he has 35% approval?

                  He wasn't elected,. He used Russians to help him win. We do not allow foreigners to donate to our elections nor influence them in any way,. Let me know when Americans get to influence Putin's election. He'd be gone in a heartbeat.

                2. Don W profile image84
                  Don Wposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  Whatever your view on polls, the fact is that essential federal employees, including those who protect the border, are currently not getting paid.

                  Immigration judges have also been furloughed, so the backlog of immigration cases is worsening each day too(1).

                  Under current legislation an asylum seeker can apply for authorization to work if 150 days passes with no decision on their application(2).

                  The average waiting time for cases in 2018 was 1068 days(3). Even accounting for the 150 days, that's over 2 and a half years someone without authorization can live and work in the country.

                  Are you sure increasing waiting times for immigration claims, and putting border protection officers under financial pressure is a sensible approach to illegal immigration and border security?

                  (1) https://thehill.com/regulation/court-ba … o-shutdown
                  (2) https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refu … lum/asylum
                  (3) http://trac.syr.edu/phptools/immigration/court_backlog/

                  1. jackclee lm profile image80
                    jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                    Don, what is your answer to this problem?
                    Tell us so we all ignorant people can understand how brilliant you are.

                    We are here at this impasse precisely because past administrations would not deal with it honestly.
                    The problems you describe with the courts and backlog have been accumulating for decades. As long we don’t address the border crossing issue, we will get more and more of it, with or without a shutdown of our government.
                    We have been pushed to the brink?
                    How many more people can you take in? Can we as a country absorb?
                    Would you open your house to undocumented immigrants?

                    Gime a break.

            2. Ewent profile image85
              Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              Did you catch Trump in the WH sitting across from Senator Schumer in that meeting to work out that deal? He said to Schumer and I quote, "I won't blame you for the shutdown. I'll take the blame."

              Is this the politician to which YOU refer?

              1. jackclee lm profile image80
                jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                Very funny. The politician I refer to are Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schmmer, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell...
                They have ben there foreever and the immigration issue is kicked down the road till now.
                Only Trump is willing to act...like he was elected to do.

          2. Ewent profile image85
            Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            You better hope Trump will not resurrect his famous excuse for NOT paying back wages as he did here in NJ. He calls a closure of his casinos and hotels and left 4400 employees without paychecks.

            When asked why, he said, "They didn't work, so they don't get paid." It was a lie and they sued. Among all of his other lawsuits in the thousands.

            Oh and by the way, his Bedminster NJ golf course got caught hiring undocumented workers and protecting them from getting caught. This from the great immigrant hater who brought his 3rd wife's parents and sister to the US and got them citizenship by pushing them ahead of thousands of others.

        3. Ewent profile image85
          Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          I will have to wait out the shutdown in order file my IRS tax returns and who knows if those who get refunds will even get them this year.

          We are broke as a nation because 1% of the population holds 80% of all the wealth. How did that happen? Offshoring US jobs so they don't have to pay American wages, refusing to use E-Verify to check immigration status so they can avoid paying employer taxes for the undocumented immigrants who make their profits from them.

          Our federal government is the appropriate size for a population of 325 million Americans who PAY the taxes that keep the government running.

          This country is in a mess because Republicans have privatized government "to make it smaller" and in the hands of thugs like Trump, Sessions, Zinke, Pruitt and Scott. All those good ole white boys who view our government and our tax dollars as their personal piggy bank.

          We, the people" remember? or is They the rich the only thing money hungry thugs care about these days?

          Not to worry, that fat Republican tax scam that handed billions to corporate welfare and billionaires is about to end. wahhhhhhhhhhhh ...wahhhhhhhhhh that the cry babies of the 1% whining how they can't afford another ten billion in their piggy banks?

          They don't earn their wealth. They point and delegate and their employees they stiff constantly earn it for them. Time to take an axe to the affluenza.

      2. Ewent profile image85
        Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        He may be retired but he forgets that by furloughing thousands of TSA agents at airports, he may be enjoying another 9/11 terrorist attack when there is NO airport security.

    3. profile image76
      Hxprofposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      No impact on me at this point.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        Try flying somewhere...

        1. jackclee lm profile image80
          jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          The TSA is a joke...how can you expect someone getting $10 an hour be professional...

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            How long were you a TSA agent, Jack? And can you prove they only make $10 an hour?

        2. profile image76
          Hxprofposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          Yeah, I'm certain I'd be inconvenienced if I flew, but in day to day life, no big deal.

          1. Ewent profile image85
            Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Japan and Germany are so far ahead of the US that they are already testing out short term flights using solar fuels.

            The most serious problem with right wingers I see is their vision goes only iin one direction: backward. Never forward. If you tell them about any hi tech advancements, they find some ancient reason it won't work.

            How on earth can any country show any progress with these backward minds? Every scientific breakthrough is met by them with denial.

            1. jackclee lm profile image80
              jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              You miss understood the word conservative. It is not backward thinking but as in conservation...and conserve what is good and tested over time and reject hairbrain ideas...
              I worked in technology and we brought some of the latest and greatest to the public. We did so because it was the right thing to do...and making money at it. Profit is good. It funds the next project and pays the bills...

              1. jackclee lm profile image80
                jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                A great news story about my nephew Chris Lee out in San Diego...
                He is doing something about this...and trying to start a new trend.
                How about it Jeff Bezos, mark Zuckerberg?

                http://www.cbs8.com/story/39776019/san- … nstalled=0

                Our whole family are very proud of him.

  2. Carb Diva profile image94
    Carb Divaposted 7 months ago

    OK, but this is getting far removed from your original question. Am I personally being affected by the government shutdown? No, and you apparently are not either. But our communities certainly will be affected as wage earners who spent dollars have to cut back on their spending. This will eventually hurt small businesses at the very least. As I stated before, it's bigger than just you and me.

    1. jackclee lm profile image80
      jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Ok, I’ll buy that answer. So let me ask you this question? Which is better for our economy? More people working in the private sector and making products and services other people want? Or more government workers who spend tax dollars but do not create anything?
      It is a form of the old Reagan question - who is more efficient at spending money? People or government? Not that one or the other exclusively but relatively speaking, assume both are needed and necessary, which sector is better at making decisions about buying?
      Reagan’s point is a higher tax on the public, takes money away from the individual tax payers who can better decide where to spend the money.
      He lowered the tax rate from 70% down to 39% and the revenue to the IRS went up, contrary to conventional wisedom...

      1. jackclee lm profile image80
        jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        Here is our federal expenditures...


        https://hubstatic.com/14353103_f1024.jpg

      2. Ewent profile image85
        Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        Oh please. More people working in the private sector? Get real will you? Corporations no longer hire permanent full time workers. Today, they make billions in profit hiring in what they call a "gig economy" where workers cobble together 3 part time jobs to earn what a full time job used to pay.

        And how is NO employer paid benefits an employee benefit?

        The reality of jobs in the US is that the December report was a joke. Of course there were 350,000 jobs added in December. That number is the same EVERY year because these are ONLY seasonal jobs.

        Do you really think these fat cats will keep these employees on in the dead of January when there are massive slow downs in consumer buying?

        1. jackclee lm profile image80
          jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          You can blame ACA for the shift to part-time workers from full time work.
          The rule of mandatory healthcare coverage for all full time employees of companies over 50 employees. That forced many employers to reduce the hours of their employees. You can fact check me...

          1. Ewent profile image85
            Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Nice try Jackie my man. But who makes ALL the decisions on hiring and firing? And if you are contemplating using that "Poor Big Business" nonsense that having to offer healthcare to ALL Americans is such a HUGE drain on their profits, you're posting to the wrong person.

            I worked on Executive Row with 3 major corporate CEOs. How much of the profits their employees EARN for them do you think goes to lobbyists and their favorite politicians?

            Employers forced? MY left pitticus. Were employers FORCED to accept OUR Tax dollars when they got tax subsidies too?

            We've heard just about enough of the poor big business BS.

  3. Carb Diva profile image94
    Carb Divaposted 7 months ago

    Jack, I understand your point of view and cannot totally disagree. But does government grow on its own volition or because the populace demands more and more?

    May I say that you and I will probably never agree on this issue. I have read your articles for quite some time and although you and I are very different politically I appreciate that you are always very respectful in your discourse. We can agree to disagree but not be disagreeable. Thank you for the conversation and for engaging in a well-thought-out and civil manner. You're a good guy.

    1. jackclee lm profile image80
      jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Thanks for your sentiment. I feel the same about you.

  4. Carb Diva profile image94
    Carb Divaposted 7 months ago

    Jack, you made a comment above to which I would like to comment. You asked why companies such as FedEx can deliver packages and make a profit but the USPS loses billions of dollars. The red ink of the Postal Service has nothing to do with their efficiency. That's a misconception that has been tossed around for years. Much of what eats up revenue at the USPS is paying for employees’ benefits. Congress has mandated that the postal service pre-pay over the next decade all future expected healthcare and retirement benefits. As an LA Times columnist explained:

    "Those payments totaled $38 billion through 2011, with further installments of between $5.6 billion and $11.1 billion a year due through 2016. At least $34 billion is still owed, according to the annual report. Conservatives who maintain that the USPS should be operated profitably, like a private business, fail to explain why the service should be burdened with a prepayment mandate that its competitors don’t face."

    1. jackclee lm profile image80
      jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      So, that is a problem with the govenment’s business model. As you say, the pension is a big part of the cost. This applies to many local government workers including teachers and union workers...
      They make these expensive pensions arrangements which they cannot fund...
      I say, if they can’t do it efficiently, they should go out of business and let the private sector handle it. There is no magic about delivering mail or packages.

      1. Ewent profile image85
        Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        I hate to be the bearer of bad news but government employees like all US employees today contribute to their pensions. But they get raided by Republican moocher states who are too lazy to create real industries in their states that are worthwhile and profitable long term.

        Instead, they want 13 donor states to pay the lion's share of federal taxes which increases these donor states state taxes.

        Let's stop with the lame excuses. If Republicans had their way NO ONE would be able to retire. I know that because I worked for an ultra conservative Republican who stiffed us on our 401Ks and when he was done ransacking it, he moved on to refusing to allow any salary increases for 15 years.

        Men like him create poverty and then complain about the poor,. If an employer crashes your 401K you spent years saving for and gets a petty $7,000 fine which he paid by NOT increasing wages for 15 years, tell me what your options are to avoid relying ONLY on SS?

        1. jackclee lm profile image80
          jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          Social security was never meant to pay for all your retirement expenses. Every since I started work back in 1974, it was drummed into me there are three components. Social security, pension and savings. The 401K plan was started in the early 1980s. It was an incentive for people to save for their retirement. Unfortunately, some 50% of the workers choose not to participate. Therefore, you are suppose to save as well. A good rule of thumb is 10% of your gross income.
          If you started in your 20s, by the time you retire in your 60s, that is 40 years of investment and growths and gains...
          You should have a nice nestegg even without social security.
          That will be $50 for a basic lesson on saving for your retirement.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Unless you work in a govt job or contract with the govt. Like those now working for free or delayed pay during the shutdown. You forgot to mention this for some reason....

            1. jackclee lm profile image80
              jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              What do you mean? It apply to all workers.
              You are also adviced to have saved 6 months of expenses in cash.
              This is for emergencies like getting laid off from your job or furloughed...
              So, when the government shuts down, you should have enough in your cash account to last 6 months.
              For others that lost their jobs, it is so you can have time to look for a new job....
              Again this is common knowledge. No one should be living paycheck to paycheck...
              That will be another $50 fee for you my friend.

              1. Ewent profile image85
                Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                Even when your employer claims it's a profit sharing company as Trump does and then claims year after year there are NO profits?

                Even when an employer like Trump refuses to hire Americans at American wages as he did in his Bedminister golf course where he and his staff not only hired undocumented immigrants but protected them from being caught by ICE?

                Even when employers pull their BS and hire part time only to make bigger profits? Your post is illogical.

                In order to save 6 months of your wages, you need a full time job. In this part time gig economy?

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  This comment from you is a home run, Ewent. Somebody ought to tell Jack that most people do not have six months of wages for such a stupid eventuality as this shutdown.

                  It was very telling that the CLOWN in chief certainly has used undocumented labor as part of his evil empire. I begin to have just that more of a strong aversion toward Trump and his dishrag support, that grows with each passing day.

                  1. Ewent profile image85
                    Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                    Read my article on this site about the Gig Economy. This is yet another corporate game these CEOs play to avoid ever again having to pay American wages.

                    Look at how jobs in America have changed from permanent full time to part time project work.

                    Oh sure they love, love, love to blame computers for it all. Really? And do the computers make the profits that go offshore in bank accounts too?

                    Since Reaganomics, the Republican Party has been hellbent on forcing the entire government to be privatized. Pure profit for profiteers of Big Business.

                    So they dropped traditional pensions in the 60s, too expensives they wailed. They implemented 401Ks which companies were supposed to match. Now? Find me a big corporation willing to match what employees deduct from their paychecks. If they do, it's a petty 6%.

                    How is it the top US billionaires ALL earn 80% of all the money in this country when not a single one of them breaks a sweat? It's their employees they refuse to pay living wages to who are earning those profits. NOT them.

                    They wailed how expensive employer paid healthcare was and never once mentioned that cute little detail how by signing on more than 50 employees the Big Bucks Boys got a nice cut in the cost of THEIR healthcare?

                    And oh yes. We all know they are not supposed to make a profit when they impound our state and federal tax deductions. Nice how they hide how they put those impounds in an interest bearing account and keep the impounds until the last week of the quarter before they hand them to the government which by then means they've made a tidy little profit on YOUR payroll deductions. How is that not stiffing employees even more than they do when they refuse to increase wages or provide paid benefits?

          2. Ewent profile image85
            Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Neither were banks supposed to use 80% of our deposits in their banks for Forex investments that went badly in the Sept. 2008 Financial Meltdown.

            Let me give you a reason SS is MEANT to protect Americans from the thieving big business boys and banks. Before the crash of '29, my uncle Ben had saved $7,000 in 1928 to buy his first home. My other uncle had saved $3,000. Because of the crash of'29 every dime in banks was LOST.

            That left millions of people out of work. You lie when you claim Americans should not rely solely on SS. Even when their employers like mine cheated on the 401Ks and crash them? Even when Enron stole 33,000 employees retirements so Kenny boy and Skilling could live like pigs?

            Get a clue will you? Many employers are like  Trump. Grifters who know how to spend the profits their employees earn for them and then cheat their employees out of their rightful share of those profits.

            Or, as my former employer told another employer in our building, "I can cheat my employees easier than I can my customers." That what you call honest?

          3. gmwilliams profile image84
            gmwilliamsposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            +10000000, Exactly!   People have to take responsibility for their future, it isn't the government's job to provide for their future.  You are correct, Jack.  Sad that many people believe that the government should provide for them in their old age!

            1. Ewent profile image85
              Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              Sorry I wasn't allowed to demand a wage increase from a right wing control freak Republican. And oh how I would have love the skinny on when he trashed our 401K.

              Make sense or stop posting. The only men in this country who have all the answers are all the WRONG answers. When did the heavens open up for you only and grant you super powers to control fate?

              People like you are the first to make sure you get every cent coming to you even when you have to rip others off to do it.

    2. Ewent profile image85
      Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Or the government could do what has been done here in NJ for decades, promise to pay for government employees' benefits and then accrue billions in the money these employees' paid by using their payroll deductions for everything but their healthcare and retirements.

      He whose mouth makes the decisions, gets the responsibility for those decisions.

  5. Readmikenow profile image96
    Readmikenowposted 7 months ago

    Well, I just watched the state of the union with my liberal Democrat cousin.  I cheered for President Donald Trump and she gagged.  I felt nausea when Chuck Shumer and Nancy Pelosi spoke, she was inspired. 

    I just don't see how we can come together on this.  We left and the right see things too differently.  The criminal statistics provided by ICE and Homeland Security about illegal aliens means nothing to the left.  I don't understand this. 

    My cousin did get upset when I asked her why Democrats value illegal immigrants so much more than American citizens and legal immigrants.  They break the laws and Democrats will give them more benefits than American citizens.  Illegal immigrants don't have to work, and only need to have children to get a refund from the IRS.  This is crazy!

    I know there are those of you who will ask for proof so here is a link for you to read. Factcheck.org...one of the left's favorites.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2012/05/tax-c … mmigrants/

    Why don't Democrats like American citizens and legal immigrants?  I don't get it.  To me there is something wrong with this.

    For the record since we watched in my house I wore my MAGA hat.  She brought over a cut-out face of Nancy Pelosi and put it in front of her face when she talked.  Oh, we had some fun.

    BUT...I'm losing hope we'll ever agree on the topic of border security.

    1. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Your fact check article makes a good case regarding the problem.

      I am fervently on the left politically, yet I find this a distressing problem if it is as presented from your evidence.

      No one should be getting tax refund money if they as not authorized to work here.

      But that has nothing to do with wall jumpers but more to do with the fact that there is no system in place to vet potential labor as to their being "legal". The Right bears its share of the guilt with its obsession and drive for cheap labor. Is that the reason we are so slow to get after the supply side of this equation?  I am all in favor of using any and all tools to create a system to make it virtually impossible for undocumented persons to work here if not authorized or receive tax credits .We have the technology, but where is the will?

      Until this part of the equation is addressed, I see the talk about illegal immigration as just more Right wing xenophobia, and that goes no where with me.

      1. Ewent profile image85
        Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        Don't believe a word these bull cons tell you. I had to write an article for a CL online about warehousing in NJ. In order to do that I went to the largest landport warehousing area that is nearly 10 miles long.

        Here is what I saw first hand. Mini buses dropping off undocumented immigrants every morning at 8 AM and picking them up at 6 PM.

        So after seeing this, I was able to interview 3 of these immigrants. 2 are legal, the other not. Here is what they told me.

        Some of these warehouses are owned by companies whose names you'd know in a heartbeat. I got the facts from them that these companies avoid paying any employer taxes by hiring through an undocumented recruiter who hires undocumented immigrants. Why? Because if they were on the books either the recruiter or the company who contracts with the recruiter would be in serious trouble for not using E-verify to check immigrant status.

        But wait. It gets worse. Because they are hired by a recruiter/employer who works on these big companies commissions paid for each immigrant they hire for the companies, these recruiters keep workers on only 90 days in order to collect a fatter commission.

        These immigrant workers are told they pay state and federal taxes by the undocumented recruiter/employer who then pockets all of those payroll deductions. There is no documentation so they get away with it.

        I'm so fed up with the lies of these middle age 40 and 50 something white male bullheads. Who raised them? Mammy and Pappy Yokum?

        They refuse to get a better education that fits the jobs out there. So they continue to hold us hostage by demanding we heat and coal with COAL and other fossil fuels.

        Enough is enough. None of the male immigrants would speak to me for fear of the one word these employers hold over their heads like an axe: Deportation. See now well that all works for the Big Bucks Boys?

        They get to pay NO taxes on these workers AND they get to abuse them by telling them they have NO sick time,  NO vacation time and NO time off even for the death in the immediate family.

        These illegals are here to save the Big Bucks Boys from having to pay taxes and to fatten their bank accounts.

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 7 months agoin reply to this

          Event, you are on a roll here, thanks for making clear "the truth", and what I have suspected has been taking place in reality all along. The anti-immigrant thing is just a race baiting exercize to give Trump's rightwing cretins the red meat they so crave.

          And as I said before, the Corporate class has been abusing immigration laws for years by providing illegals employment and exploiting their labor to save money at my expense. All this, while diverting people's attention away from that fact as  it is easier to focus on brown people jumping over international boundaries.

          Such is why I hold the political Right and their supporters in such contempt.

          1. jackclee lm profile image80
            jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Now we know how you really feel credence.
            Too bad because that is not who we are...
            We don’t hate brown people or black people or purple...
            We believe in the rule of law.
            Your point about businss hiring low wage workers is absolutely true...
            But we have eVerify and it is so easy to bypass. Anyone can go and buy fake documents.
            So what is your solution my friend?
            Just keeping the status quo?

            1. Ewent profile image85
              Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              Conservatives only conserve THEIR money while they spend ours like it's their personal piggy bank.

              When they don't pay their fair share of corporate taxes, spend millions on lobbyists to keep them virtually tax free and then get to repatriate $47 trillion tax free offshore, I should think that you'd be more concerned that our 13 donor states will decide they've had enough of being the sole support of 37 moocher states who take more from the fed than they pay in.

              When you complain about undocumented workers, ignore that Melania Knavs Trump worked illegally in the US for 7 years before SHE met Trump, became a citizen in less than 3 and then got her parents and sister chain migrated and citizenship in less than a year, you have big time explaining to do about your attitude toward immigrants.

              1. jackclee lm profile image80
                jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                My position is clear. Nothing to explain. I have written many articles on this topic all from personal experiences...

                It is frustrating to me to deal with the same talking points spew out by the left.
                The corporations are not the evil one.
                Let me ask you this simple hypothetical question-
                If all the corporation would close their doors tomorrow, how will you get along?
                The answer is not very well. If you want to read a good book on this, there is Ayn Rand- Atlas Shrugged.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  If all the corporations close their doors tomorrow...
                  No more food deliveries, for most truck lines are incorporated.
                  No more supermarkets, for they are incorporated as well.
                  No more electricity
                  No more trash pickup, and many sewer treatment plants close down.
                  No more hospitals, and not many doctors
                  No more health insurance
                  No more gasoline for travel, and no more bicycle tires, either.
                  Can't even buy a gun or fishing pole to obtain your own food.  Nor seeds to plant.

                  But you could probably still hire one of Jake's $5 car washes...if you have water to wash with. big_smile

            2. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 7 months agoin reply to this

              Jack,

              "We don’t hate brown people or black people or purple..."

              Of course you do, these kinds of issues have been surfacing with Trump since his Inauguration Day.

              You perception of "rule of law" is debatable.

              I can't get away with one penny from IRS, or when was the last time any of the myriads of financial accounts we have been subject to error?

              We do what we want to do, we got to the moon, because the will existed to do so. This is not an intractable problem in our technical world. I just believe it is a problem that the Rightwinger really does not want to solve, that is why we hear excuses and endless handwringing.

              I want the system overhauled, to bankrupt in fines business entities that knowingly hire illegals. Let's get needed fixes to E-verify to close loopholes and make it more effective. As I told Wilderness once, that besides SSAN, the other basic information the government associates with that is place and date of birth. So challenge a potential employee to provide more than just a number as proof of his or her residency. So, your name is John Q Public and you want a job, I have your SSAN. So, where and when were you born? Can't or don't answer correctly, you are not hired.

              I am hardly an expert, but all of this should not be this hard.

              1. jackclee lm profile image80
                jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                Credence, your narrative does not hold. If this country is as racist as you claim, how did we get here?
                You know who is a racist country, try Japan, China, India, UK, Sweden, South Africa...and a host of other countries where their demographics are homogeneous.
                We are the most diverse nation by choice. We accept all races and relligion to come here legally.
                For you and others to make this debate about race is so disengenuous...

                We all know when the left loose its argument, they always pull out the race card. That was why OJ got aquitted of mudering two human beings, but using the race card from the bottom of the deck.

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  Cmon, Jack, you are not fresh off the boat are you? You have been here for a while, no?

                  Put your engineering literature aside and read some American history and come away enlightened.

                  I would have thought that you having an ethnic identity would give better insight on things that I speak of to you today? Obviously, not.

                  The OJ situation for example, Simpson was acquitted by a jury of his peers. History is rife with examples of kangaroo courts driving black men into prison or to the gallows and you and the other rightwingers called that "being tough on crime". That's typical.

                  But you can bet your bottom dollar, that I NEVER FORGET what was done then as the explanation of what is now. Others choose to dismiss the significance of that, but I am here to remind you and those like you. Just because South Africa did not kill its oppressed black majority hardly qualified the society as not being racist. Can't let you throw the baby out with the bath water.

          2. Ewent profile image85
            Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Sometimes, I start out writing about a specific topic and find I get diverted due to some shocking thing I've seen or heard.

            I live in NJ. The Republican Governors Whitman and Christie both knew Trump was hiring illegals at his hotels, casinos and the golf course. They looked the other way.

            The worst I saw as I was driving home from this assignment was those mini buses dumping these undocumented workers off on a main rain where there was NO bus or other type of transportation. The mini buses are owned by the warehouses. That makes them more complicit in exploiting these immigrants.

    2. Ewent profile image85
      Ewentposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Better questions to ask. Why didn't that Maggot Man of yours tell the public how he was going to spend that $5 billion in an itemized account? You know why. Give him $5 billion this month and he ask for $20 million next month.

      His Republicans last year gave him $2 billion for border protection last year. He has spent ONLY 6% of that. You better have the answers to what he did with the rest.

  6. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 7 months ago

    "13 tweets from travelers that reveal the real dangers of a government shutdown."

    https://www.someecards.com/news/news/ov … -shutdown/

    1. jackclee lm profile image80
      jackclee lmposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Here is an Obama official who explain why a wall works...
      https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark … y-do-work/

 
working

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