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jump to last post 1-2 of 2 discussions (14 posts)

Trans Pacific Partnership almost set.

  1. rhamson profile image76
    rhamsonposted 4 years ago

    With the devastation to American Labor that NAFTA wreaked are we able to weather increased globalization and survive.

    http://www.ustr.gov/tpp

    1. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Don't know much about this TPP, but yes the earth is shrinking and if we don't play the game we will absolutely find ourselves in the cold.  We passed the point long ago where we can survive without the rest of the world; just in raw materials alone we cannot provide for ourselves. 

      So when the rest of the world decides they want to be on an equal basis with us, we should probably follow along as best we can without wrecking ourselves in the process.

      1. rhamson profile image76
        rhamsonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

        I think it is going more the other way. Are we still so far advanced as a society that we can keep losing jobs and lowering our standard of living to compete with the rest of the labor markets that we compete with? We are living at dangerously low incomes that are on average still 75% more than the labor markets in China. To sink any lower to the new labor markets opening in the Pacific rim is even more astounding. The divide is getting so great that up to 30% of the poor in this country have no chance of escaping poverty. What is going to give in order to either raise their standard without affecting any more or stabilizing ours to insulate us from the rest?  If we sink any lower the whole mess will collapse as our consumer base will disappear with our jobs. The cycle is broken here and unless something is done we will lose our way of life.

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

          I simply do not believe that, for the most part, people cannot escape poverty.  There are those that cannot work, are disabled physically or mentally and they are indeed stuck.  There are those that have spent their future, mostly be producing excessive children to raise and feed.

          But other than that, people that want out can get out.  The problem is that it isn't easy and it isn't quick - couple that with a government that has made it very, very plain that there is no need to get out (we'll feed and house you forever) and they just don't have a reason to put out the huge effort anymore.

          1. rhamson profile image76
            rhamsonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Well I certainly can't reason with you about a belief. The people who are stuck in these situations just cannot comprehend what you are offering as an explanation either. I think generally that people try to do the easiest thing offered them and there is merit for your argument of freeloading but that in itself is a job as well. I know a lot of people in the situation where they feel helpless to change their lot. In most cases I know that they still work their tails off to survive.

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

              No you can't.  Particularly when you cannot supply proof of your side, either.  Both simply believe, without having any proof except that some do get out.

              And that people feel helpless does not mean that they are.  I most definitely count those in the ones that could get out if they want it badly enough.

              1. rhamson profile image76
                rhamsonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                I have had enough conversations with you to know that I couldn't prove to you the the sky was blue so I won't even try to go there. Your musings don't bear out the findings.

                Here is a link that speaks to the problem directly.

                http://www.urban.org/publications/901356.html

                1. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  You have a funny idea of what proof is.  Nowhere in your link does it even say that it is impossible for 30% of poor to leave poverty behind them, let alone provide any studies or tests to provide evidence supporting such a claim. 

                  Nor will you find such evidence; it would require taking several thousand able bodied people and stopping all support to them.  Let them either starve or support themselves for a few decades and see how many made it out of poverty.  We won't do that, thus there can be no evidence to support your claim.

                  Which is exactly what I said, while you ramble about the blue sky and your personal beliefs.

                  1. rhamson profile image76
                    rhamsonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                    I did not say it was in the link. I gave you the link because it speaks to the problem directly. The 30% I referred to is in the film you refuse to watch. If you want to see something from statistical research watch the film "Inequality for All" by Robert Reich. But then again if you are too lazy I can't help that.

  2. maxoxam41 profile image74
    maxoxam41posted 4 years ago

    What does our government do in our interests? Every move of his flatters the elite. What will become of the commoner, you, me, the majority what do they care?
    Again, what do we oppose to them? Silence. I understand why they keep on putting us on the side.

 
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