Greece and the U.S. have some things in common

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   promisemposted 8 years ago

   1) Their governments are heavily influenced by multibillionaires.
   
   2) Those billionaires hide their assets and underpay taxes.
   
   3) Both governments spend more than than receive anyway to appease the lower classes.
   
   4) Both countries are heavily in debt.
   
   Agree or disagree?

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      wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      How do billionaires underpay taxes?  I'm quite sure the tax returns are heavily audited.

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         promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         If I have a 25% rate on a salary of $100,000 and a billionaire pays 20% on capital gains -- taking money out of a corporation via stock options and other means while minimizing salary -- then that billionaire is paying lower taxes than me.

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            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            But paying lower taxes is not necessarily "underpaying", not unless you get to be the one deciding what it means rather than the law.  Is that the case?
            
            Plus, of course, that billionaire is still paying more taxes at 20% on ten million (guess, not actual figure) than you are.  You pay $25,000, he pays $2,000,000.  Two million is more than $25,000, although you both get the exact same thing in return.

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               promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Point well taken about what you get in return. On the other hand, the ability to earn money varies from person to person.
               
               Some have higher IQs than others. Some are born into wealth. Some use their wealth to change laws to their benefit. If I were intellectually disabled, I might not be able to make money at all. Can I reasonably be expected to pay the same amount of taxes as a multibillionaire if I can't work at all?

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                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  True (although by extension we should be taxing intelligence, strength, skill, etc.), but that has nothing to do with Billionairs underpaying taxes.  They pay what the law demands or, presumably, go to jail.

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      Arun Singh Negiposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I know few people from Cyprus they do business in Greece while discussing about the business personnel in Greece they told me that there are very few  people in Greece interested in doing the business with international community thats the reason the nearby country people are dealing on behalf of Greece, I dont whats reality ? but your points prompt me to write here and up to somewhat they look agreeable for me.

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   ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

   The idea that millionaires pay less for anything is ridiculous , every person I've ever known with money pays  for far more of a diverse amount of fees and taxes  and monies all around . Generally they own  a business , employing ....hundreds who then are able to buy and purchase services  .   Doesn't that make them ,    multi - tax payers ,  multiple purchasers of services and goods ?      This thread  simply comes from the certain outlook of "Lets hate the rich guy " syndrome , that  which abounds of late  in our culture . How immature !

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      John Holdenposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Is what you are saying here that employers pay employees taxes?
      In which case why do so many employees complain about the tax they pay!

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         wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         In limited cases, yes, employers pay the tax for employees.  FICA tax, for instance, is divided between employee and employer - self employed people pay all of it.  But no, employers don't pay income tax for employees, although I have had employers "gross up" a bonus to cover taxes in rare instances.

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         ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Quite simply , Because they Buy more than anyone else  ,   they  consume more period !      More cars , homes , toys , trips services and everything  else .   Most Americans think along the lines of  the simplistic mentality that rich people  simply hold their  wealth in the mattress, and that  is naïve .   
         
         In America , there is a tax for just about anything ,  a cold drink ,  a car , a home , a vacation  . So just how is it that we can  believe that one who has money pays less taxes ?  Simple  envy perhaps , and due  course of reckoning suggests that all rich people simply  hold in a can that which  what  we all want ? Right ......

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            promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            There is nothing naive about it. The rich pay lower taxes because of a 20% capital gains rate, so they pay themselves in stock instead of getting a salary. This is the law.

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            rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            "Quite simply , Because they Buy more than anyone else  ,   they  consume more period !      More cars , homes , toys , trips services and everything  else ."
            
            The rich don't hold a candle to what the rest of this consumer society spend. They may buy more big ticket items but the middle and lower class spend the lions share on consumer goods. In this recession they may have spent more proportionally because of their wealthy insulation from the lower classes but certainly not more. You really have this mixed up with the other farce that the rich create jobs. They don't create a thing. They respond to a trend that assures them where to place their money so it will grow.
            
            Nick Hanauer a self proclaimed capitalist plutocrat said it best when he claimed there are only so many pairs of pants he can buy as what would he do with a thousand pairs to make up for the lack of purchases from the middle class? He also states that historically a thriving middle class is the source of a growing economy. He also called for the minimum wage to be raised to $15.00 per hour to facilitate a resurgence in the economy before the politicians did. He warns of the pitchforks coming for him and his fellow plutocrats as the economy suffers more and more under the concentration of money that goes to the top. It isn't a question of a fair share being the answer to our economical health but of a responsible share that is put back into the economy in the virtuous cycle. [1]
            
            [1] https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_ … n#t-667099

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            John Holdenposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            You missed my point by a long way!

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            rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            If you want a simple explanation read some of Warren Buffets writings. He stated that by proportion he pays less taxes than his secretary. Don't mix up the proportional and aggregate sums in this.

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      promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Ahorseback, my net worth is probably higher than yours. If I hate anything, it's injustice in the tax system that favors people who can bend the laws their way.
      
      Please address the point about billionaires paying a 20% tax rate on capital gains and zero-based stock options (and taking no salary) while I pay 28% on my salary. Is that fair?

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   promisemposted 8 years ago

   Larry Ellis, the CEO of Oracle and a billionaire many times over, took a $1 salary but was paid $67 million last year.
   
   How did he do it? He got the $67 million as zero-based stock options. That means he was given free stock in Oracle and then sold that stock on the stock market. It was 100% profit.
   
   Why did he do it? Because he pays only a 20% tax rate on the stock sales while his own middle managers making $75,000 a year have to pay a 25% rate.
   
   How can anyone say that billionaires in the U.S. pay their share of taxes when middle managers have a higher rate?

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      wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Easy.  Billionaires pay more than others for the same service.  It is only the socialist, liberal mindset that has decided they "owe" more because they have more.  In truth, their "share" is the same as everyone else even though they are required to pay 10 "shares" instead of one.

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         promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         From that point of view, a family of four with two parents making minimum wage would pay $48,600 in taxes on income of $30,160.

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      Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Billionaire and the poor are growing and middle class is shrinking.
      
      95% Of the money comes from banks. The Governiments borrows money from the bank and dose not pay it back. The public pays the interest that the governiment borrows. The national debt doubles in ten years and private debt is 20% higher than the great depression. Most people debt excedes their income.
      
      Adds up to me most of us are getting screwed wail the billionaires are walking away with the money. ? Why is it that most people can't + or - and =.

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   John Holdenposted 8 years ago

   I'm sure many of you remember the statement from the woman whose name I refuse to remember-
   "We don't pay taxes, only the little people pay taxes"

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