So, another one?
South Florida police shoot an autistic man's black caretaker who was lying down with his arms raised.
"Sir, there's no need for firearms. I’m unarmed, he’s an autistic guy. He got a toy truck in his hand."
He was shot anyway.
"When he hit me, I'm like, I still got my hands in the air,"
"I'm like, 'Sir, why did you shoot me?' " he asked the officer.
"He said to me, 'I don't know.' "
Well, at least he's alive.
I saw the story, I sat in disbelief, waiting for a 'next' an explanation and there was none.
This does not have to a race thing but a people thing. Can I ask that you be held accountable, every time, as a law enforcement, whenever you unholster your weapon?
They are. Except in very rare cases where the Police department and court system are conspiring, they are.
Not to the same standards as the rest of us are. Which is unfortunate. They should be held to a higher standard because they are paid to uphold the laws. Not to shoot at us willie nillie.
You say ....."shoot at us willie nillie ......." like we all get shot at daily .... Well , I guess some people are just overly dramatic ! How Naive .
I can sympathize with the dangers a police officer must endure when walking the 'mean streets' of a violence ridden section of the city. However, seriously? Seriously? Did you watch the video?
What you guys who defend their right to act in these manners fail to realize is that if you do not stand up now for fairness it will be all of us. And, who will you blame then?
"What you guys who defend their right to act in these manners fail to realize..."
Which guys have defended a cops right to shoot as the video seems to indicate? I missed that post somehow.
I suppose I'm talking about those who tend to be very negative about the BLM movement. This video is exactly what they are standing against. Not the drug lord who gets shot while running, but the guy who is shot, or the one who is tazed, or the one who is harrassed for simply walking down the street in a section of town some yokel doesn't think he should be walking in. I find it impossible to understand how anyone can pretend that there isn't a real problem here.
I suppose I'm also talking about the ones who jump in to defend cops. I have nothing against cops. I feed them every day here in the restaurant. At half price, although begrudgingly. But, they are paid to uphold our laws. If they break them they should be held to a higher standard than you and I. They can quote you the regulation that is being broken.
I'm afraid we have a serious problem in this country and the police forces are not only denying it, but getting beligerent about the entire thing. Cops who walk out of a venue where they are hired, off duty, for security because people wear BLM tee shirts.
Things may get a lot worse, before they get better and one of the reasons for that will be because of attitudes like these. People who perceive a problem and who are willing to take to the streets in protest, to attempt to bring some light to the problem will get more and more frustrated while we sit around with our thumbs up our butts and don't step up to the plate and attempt to create a solution that is fair and equitable for all.
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree. When BLM started I supported the concept although I found the name insulting (as so many others have). Since then, though, they have "graduated" far beyond peaceful protests that harmed no one, and that offends me even more. I've never been happy with the concept that "civil disturbance" is acceptable, and the movement has begun that in earnest.
I also personally find the vast majority of cops to be honest and non-racially motivated. I find that the large majority of police organizations are aware of the problem and working hard to correct it. The BLM (current), on the other hand would have us believe that ALL cops are racially motivated, even the black ones that shoot black people. I disagree.
I think you'd be a little belligerent, too, if your "kind" was being targeted for murder, and cops most definitely are. Whether it is directly from the BLM is debatable, but there is no denying that it is playing a large part in those murders. Unwittingly, I would hope and believe (so far), but still playing a part.
Does it seem odd to you that no one has ever investigated police training, procedures and individual departments? No one from the BLM, anyway? They all seem to agree cops are the problem, but no one has ever pointed to any specific training action that is wrong, no one has ever showed any conspiracy to shoot blacks. Just the statistics that seem to show, without mentioning the whole picture, that blacks are being killed disproportionally?
No solutions, in other words, just a continuing tirade that no cop ever take action against anyone identifying themselves as "black".
I'll add that the incident in this thread appears to me to have some racism involved. In that the cop appeared deathly afraid for his own life, without reason, but likely because the suspect was black. One must wonder if that was because of the recent spate of cop murders by people all crying BLM themes. The BLM has begun to cause more damage than they can hope to solve, and it's going to get worse the more violent the movement (whether officially authorized or not) continues.
That is why I don't care for conservatives types. Black Lives Matter is meant to be inclusive and not exclusionary, you can't see that? The conservative mind is so myopic in scope. That is why Trump is such a hero for so many of you?
For you, 'Peaceful protests' are a civil disturbance unless there are rightwing gunslingers above. When it comes to guns, you suspect the liberal's motive, when it comes to these matters, I distrust the conservative reasoning points. Nobody in the movement are attacking all cops, but the focus is on the abuses. Too many Conservatives are not interested in justice over order and control.
You exaggerate about BLM, they are targeting all cops for murder? More right wing sensationalism and fear. I know that the rightwinger does not like it, but it stays until these matters are properly addressed. So, you don't like statistics that are inconsistent with rightwing dogma? The protests are designed to put pressure on municipal police departments to review and correct errant procedure. Without the pressure, how does change happen? There is no Sheriff Taylor working in Mayberry, Idaho. What else has to be done for the right winger to gets it head out of its bum and take these grievances seriously?
Your last paragraph is a lame excuse for a brutal attack by this officer against an unarmed man and it will not stand a chance among the sane and cognitive persons
Island, you get a slap on the wrist for even suggesting that a cop looking (and apparently finding) a suspect reported as waving a gun around should relax vigilance based on the suspects word. You also get one for assuming that the suspects word for what the cop said is truthful or that he had his hands in the air at the time of shooting. The video shows neither.
Having said that, and based solely on a video that does NOT show the time of the shooting, it appears that the minimum the cop will face is conviction for unintentionally harming another person (whatever the local legal term might be). I can't imagine why he was shot or what the cop was thinking - it almost seems as if were unintentional. Very, very stupid, and intolerable to boot, but unintentional. I also have to wonder at the incompetence in a cop that short distance away, and using a rest, that hit only a leg rather than killing the man. Was he a first day rookie that skated through training, so scared and shaking at the sight of a man lying on the ground that he pulled the trigger by accident, nearly missing the target completely? Unless that man grabbed for a pocket or the "gun" (toy truck) the second man had, this was incompetence in the extreme and almost caused someone to lose their life.
I have to wonder about the veracity of the person that reported this individual had a gun, I have no more reason to trust his or her account over that of the suspect unless visual observation proves otherwise. This entire thing was stupid and irresponsible and I will wait patiently for the 'boom' to be lowered on this 'Keystone Cop'.
Relax vigilance? Where did I suggested that? What about not shooting? Btw, I only quoted his words and asked a question.
Since I quoted him, I'll quote North Miami police Chief Gary Eugene:
"However, I want to make it clear, there was no gun recovered."
Also, the officer fired his weapon, three times according to North Miami police.
I get what you're saying...
But, if a cop is scared and shaking at the sight of a man lying on the ground, and that man becomes a target, shouldn't we ALL be asking what was so threatening about him? Why was him, per your argument, the target and not the guy who wasnt on the ground?
He fired three times?! Hitting a leg just once? Stranger and stranger that the man isn't dead!
Or asking, as I did, why the cop was so scared at all. If the video is accurate (sure wish it showed the shot and cops reply) then there was virtually nothing to be afraid of.
This makes the case for vigilence among the citizenry, there can be no tolerance for excuses like 'unintentional or panic attack'. Urban police departments need to get with the program, properly training officers as to how to behave when Interacting with civilians. BLM, if it keeps the focus on this issue and not permit it to be shoved under a rug somewhere, is AOKin my book. The resulting lawsuits from carelessness will bankrupt urban centers, so I say, 'step lightly'. So, if force is justified, Officer, you damn well better be able to prove it. When it comes to doing their jobs, I want cameras and documentation everywhere.
Law Officer: I respect the work that you do and its difficulty, but like the job of the Air TrafficController, there is no room for error. You need to understand that before you begin your rounds.
BLM isn't interested in seeing that cops are properly trained...unless that training includes to ignore what anyone with dark skin does.
Other than that, though, I fully agree, although I'm not sure just what cameras are going to accomplish - certainly we've heard enough "He shot him in the back when his hands were up!" kind of stuff only to have a camera show the opposite. Too many people don't care about facts, just that their (friend, family, race, whatever) got shot.
"BLM isn't interested in seeing that cops are properly trained...unless that training includes to ignore what anyone with dark skin does."
Wilderness, you are mostly a reasonable fellow, but that statement is ridiculous. Unless you have some evidence that the leadership of this organization has said such a thing?
Having cameras record every interaction will either clear cops or not. Good cops should welcome them, as it will rid the system of the bad ones that are creating trouble for all of them.
Nowhere did I mention the originators or even the current leadership of the BLM movement. But it has deteriorated far from what it was to be when started, and you know that as well as do whether you wish to admit it or not. What started as a legitimate cultural grievance as become mostly a demand for letting blacks alone and, in some far out cases, calling for the murder of cops. Any time you open your "movement" up to the likes of Al Sharpton that's what will happen.
Having cameras will go a long way to finding guilt or innocence in a court of law. In the minds of radicals, family members or loved ones? Not a thing, and you know that as well. They will be declared fake, photoshopped or even done with actors, and we've already seen a little of that even with the small amount that has been released to the public.
Well, then you will not blame the organization, but the individuals, right? Your wording blamed the BLM. The BLM leadership has specifically condemned killing of police officers and other violent tactics. Maybe you should have said "Some individuals identifying themselves with the BLM movement aren't interested in seeing that cops are properly trained...unless that training includes to ignore what anyone with dark skin does."
But then with BLM , with the New Black Panther , , it IS the "dark skin" that most often entitles one lately to assume that BECAUSE of this skin color , that they are entitled to" special treatment ", no matter the law , no matter the infraction ,no matter the adhesion of ALL others to a nation of civil laws and no matter the record of previous offenses ,that they are still entitled to "special " treatment .
Who else in America can assume such an attitude and believe that anything goes !
Sadly, It doesn't surprise me that you would consider the desire to not be shot during a traffic stop as a request for "special treatment."
The White skinned man has always thought that their white skin entitled them to "Special Treatment". Everybody knows that, mike.come mon man.
KKK. White citizen council ALEX, NRA Police unions, all stronger then The Panthers or BLM
Overall right now, white men think they are untitled to rule the world. Israel Zionist bankers own America back by military and policing policies by gun point in 160 countries and Centro banks in all countries except a few they have not ruin yet.
Authorities kills more than the public kill each other.
White supremacists America are the background for fighting in 79 major wars in brown countries to steal food, drugs and oil push their corporation ism. They place black countries into Poverty in which is the greatest killer of them all. African is the greatest murdering continents of them all per capita. In the USA blacks killing blacks is 93℅ of the killings, blacks do have to take responsibility for these actions too.
The unfair lynching of blacks over pot is another case where corporation make money from black building military equipment getting greedy ready for marshal law in America.
The deal is with mostly white elitist. They are busy getting everyone fighting wail they walk away with your money. Evil and simple plan.
I refuse to bow to you, a white man that thinks he is entitled to rule the world.
Different races have Dominate this world at different times in history. More than last two centuries predominately white countries empires like Russia, UK and America. The only recent white country America fought was white Germany because it was Americans job to own the world.
Why all the up rising over Trump banning Muslim a d deporting Mexican and jailing blacks because they bought them as slaves in a country where a white man wanted to be free.
I see. What you really mean, then, is that most of the "first" world - Europe and north America - is primarily white and predominately partriachial and thus it mostly white males that have power. We'll ignore eastern Asia, Africa and South America as they don't really exist.
Don't know of any blacks at all that were brought here as slaves and then jailed because of that action. Want to try that one again, too?
But I did have to giggle at the picture of a super tanker pulling up to Saudia Arabia, stringing a hose to the oil fields in the dead of night and quick filling the ship, stealing all the oil.
Blacks could not vote until 1965 even though it was in the Constitution they could.
There is three times more black jail cells than college domes.
White man leaders just don't give non whites a hand up. They prefer untitletment of suppressing with cheaper hand outs.
Not jailed just because they legally and unwillingly came to America but, because they are slave descendants unwanted in the country after slavery ended. They couldn't go home because they didn't know where home was so the suffered Jim Crow which included mass incarceration over a hundred years after the end of slavery.
When black slaves were given their freedom. They were treated worst in imprisoned suffering more from over work and shorter life spans.
The game is being played out again today. Thank goodness for camera cell phones.
LOL. times infinity. I'd love to know where you went to school, if you did. Interesting take on history.
But he's right. At some time in the long human history every race has dominated their continent - the world they knew of. Even the Australian aborigine's did that.
Caucasians are only the latest to do so, and have held control probably less time than any but the mongols.
No argument there. I just don't think America went to war with Germany because it was our job to rule the world as he put it. The statement was so ignorant, in my opinion, that I felt compelled to comment.
Like you, no argument there. Although Germany wasn't the only caucasian axis country.
True. But, I'm sure Castle can explain to us why only Germany and America mattered in that conflict.
If my memory of history serves me correctly we weren't too keen on joining in, nor were we party to starting it. I suppose the explanation for that will be that we were really sneaky and we manipulated all of the other parties into a war so we could jump in and rule the world.
Having cameras will either condemn or absolve the officer in the eyes of the law. Your mention of disaffected families and such is irrelevant. Ted Bundy's mother supported her son as innocent up to the last few months of his life. But, due process proved his guilt and that was adequate for the rest of us. So, are supposed to ignore a valid source of admissible evidence based merely on your speculation as to the reactions of friends and family?
The insanity of enforcing the police to adhere to every stupid idea that people come up with is nonsense, Altercations with the law begin like this ; people breaking the law ! You , your cherished son or daughter , your brother ,sister or cousin , BUT they break the law in one form or another . Marchers in the street , drunks or drugged individuals carousing the streets at night , teens looking for excitement , ..............someone is breaking a law to the effect that someone calls 911 , a brick is thrown , a car is stolen , a rape has occurred , someone robs a convenience store , .......
But YOU think that the one enforcing the law needs a camera stuck up HIS a$$ ! My advice , contain your errant children , your abusive husband , your intoxicated brother ,turn in your junkie parents , and PUT THE CAMERA ON THE OFFENDER . Not the protector . Cops need camera's on their lapel as much as your average criminal needs a lobotomy , Why not a pasted wrap sheet on the chest of the criminal ?
It seems that liberal intellectuals have the biggest problem here , requiring more of the cop that they do of themselves and That is the bigger issue ! Personal responsibility will have to become once again the bigger part of this issue! Remember ------"do the crime -do the time !"
Here's a shocker for you - there is a huge part of America that believes in the mission statement of law enforcement and law enforcements positive affects on our culture and society , And truly see's the real issue that most liberals do not ,the seriousness of the criminal problems ALL across America . From designer drugs that alter the minds and behavior of your drug cultures , the abhorrent behavior of gangs of illegal immigrant minorities , of moral deficiencies of America's youth walking the streets at night looking for " fun" crimes like the knock out game .
The left believes that anarchy is just fine with all human behavior and all it's moronic endeavors But becomes somehow offended by the same rarity when it happens in law enforcement ? My advice ----grow up and grow your children up , "Clean up your own house " and watch all of these rare cases disappear !
The language of truth , morality and integrity is mostly unspoken by the left today , learn this language and teach it to your children , it might save your child's life in the future !
In other words grow up and grow your family up !
You realize that many cops are decent people? Why should they be ashamed of what they do?
Apparently, you believe police officers are delicate flowers who can't tolerate what working class peons have had to endure for decades. Video surveillance is common in the workplace. Many office and service workers are under video surveillance, not to mention internet surveillance and phone monitoring. Corporations routinely monitor employees in a multitude of ways. As a citizen, I want police officers, who are in possession of dangerous weapons, to be monitored. If a bank employee who wields nothing more dangerous than an ink pen can submit to workplace surveillance then so can police officers. After all, if they are doing nothing wrong then cameras will merely confirm their innocence. That is what us peons are told by our corporate daddies.
Video surveillance has many depressing aspects and I can see why cops would resist their use, but all public servants need to be held to account. Especially those who wield the power of life and death.
When there is a racial or ethnic dimension it is even more important. If Protestant cops were killing Catholics in Northern Ireland at the rate white cops kill black Americans we would soon be back to daily rioting, car bombs and the routine murder of prison officers, soldiers elected officials etc.
Not everyone is as patient as the average black American.
Cameras and the video give me an indeliable account so I am not forced to take the word of police officers, solely, as to what transpired. A picture is worth a thousand words and a moving picture worth one thousand still photographs.
The camera could absolve the officer of wrong doing as well as it works both ways. We ain't going to agree on the purpose of BLM. Do you have a problem with cameras?
Only in that we're already loading down our cops with pounds and pounds of awkward equipment to tote around. I like cameras - can we trade the baton for them?
I will say, though, that cameras are not the be all and end all to questions. They are not movie cameras, you know, very carefully aimed by a cameraman to show exactly what is needed, zooming in and out, and with extending mic booms.
Can't think of the name, but remember the one just recently where a guy was on the ground and surrounded by cops, one of which shot him? The camera failed to show the arm, reaching for the gun in the pocket. That kind of thing will remain common, making them a valuable, but limited resource. There is also that videos of any kind are easily manipulated and we WILL see camera videos only hours after an incident that show something radically different than the one from the cop.
The ability to alter video evidence is not something everyone is capable of to the point that it cannot be detected, this is not Spectre.
These cameras a lightweight are they anymore burdensome than what is in a common cell phone?
It keeps everybody honest and can save municipal departments on the potential for litigation for 'bad shoots', so I think that It is an essential piece of equipment. Not only good for verifying the circumstances of a shooting, but making the cops conduct themselves professionally with each civilian encounter.
I never suggested that the camera be the sole source for making such determinations, but it is evidence that I want available at all times
With all that is going on, I say trust but verify.
And I said I like it. But you never answered if you would trade the baton for it? Or just add more junk to what they carry, on the theory that unlimited pieces are fine as long as each is small?
As far as photoshopping a video undetectably; no one has to do that, because those that don't care will carefully ignore any work done. And those that DO care have other sources anyway. It's public opinion bothers me here, not that a doctored video will be used to convict or set free. We already have way too many arm chair lawyers instantly claiming guilty on no more than a low quality video of something irrelevant to the matter.
Whose says that that 'trade' is necessary?
So, what is your issue with public opinion? You do your job the way you are supposed to, and there should be no issue. So, more evidence to either absolve or condemn should be appreciated is possible with the camera.
I did. We already load them down with too much junk to chase suspects or effectively engage in hand to hand combat and now you want to load more on them.
Whether a cop did his job has absolutely no bearing on whether public opinion will hang him out to dry. Even you should recognize that - every single time a black is killed the cry immediately goes out to convict him of murder. And, Credence, that opinion hurts. It can and does destroy lives even if it doesn't end them.
I'm thoroughly confused about why you believe a police officer who kills an unarmed man should receive more sympathy than the dead man. I understand that sometimes public opinion wrongly condemns an officer but that pales in comparison to being dead. Your concern about police officers being wrongly vilified because of video seems oddly exaggerated when compared to a person being unjustly killed.
Police have been wearing body cams for years and haven't had to give up their guns, tasers, or batons.
It's amazing that you cannot see the importance of this accouterment to the officer's standard equipment, you make that seem superlative. The truth is that this piece of equipment is more important than his or hers service revolver, as it may save lives, money and jobs. Under those circumstances, would you consider such an accessory an inconvenience?
When someone in the black community is summarily executed by an officer without any justifiable provocation then, yes, we want investigations into what happened and why. And yes, when warranted I am going to want to hold people accountable. Why are rightwingers content to make guns available at 7-11 stores but so afraid of this simple concept? Hmm, I wonder, or maybe I already know.......
So, yes, the cameras will be insisted upon and the heat is on. So, all are advised to move with due caution.
Your argument and premise is ridiculous on its face, sorry.
When one cop shoots a bullet. Often that cop or some other cops will empty their guns out into the victim. Making sure he is dead. Then there is less to answer for in court, if there is any court case at all..many lame excuses like a broom threaten them or thought he was reaching for a gun and so on, when there was no gun.
What ever happen to cops laying down their lives for citizens. Getting crazy when People have to get so angry for Revenge on cops.
Here is an extended view of that, (or a second), cell phone video;
Miami Herald Video
It does add a little more context, and it does not look good for the policeman that fired. In this version you can see two of the three, (reported), officers positioned safely behind large utility poles 50 - 100 feet away.
No room here for anything but an honest explanation from the police.
I'm sure they'll be rolling into the thread shortly to explain why it had to be that guy"s fault. It's the evil liberal left who believe a man on the ground with his hands in the air must be innocent of creating the problem.
I know. I'm sure he must have a criminal record.
This case sounds like stupidity on ONE cops actions . Yet , on the other hand , How many calls a day across America do 911 police get stating ........"a man with a gun is.".................whatever ,anything ! A thousand , two ? Who knows . In the answer to that equation alone lies the answer to why , how often , how many black men , white men or blue men are shot by cops , and I don't see the actual moment that this man was shot IN THE VIDEO . Who knows just what actions caused or created this shooting , if any .
If the shot man was dead - then right now there would be a thousand posts about the terrible thing he did when he was 19 years old.
More often I'm the odd man out again.
Vast majority of the people are never shocked to find out Authority's kill far more public persons than the public kills the public persons. Your security and freedom has much been destroyed by the most (1&2) largest corporatism employed corperationism and mercenary for Global elistist.
Considering police have killed 8 times greater than all terrorist groups combined. Than you have police imprisoned or killed a million people in connection with a plant wail only two police men were killed in raids in a year. Then you have the US military, the most employed corperations in the world, stealing, murdering and ruined countries all over the world.
It's petty to hear people over focus one incident when you can see on YouTube and many other online places where cops kill innocent people and worst punishment they get is a desk jobs.
You have seen nothing yet, these are all target practice and test for Marshal law to come. These angels of death have been prepared.
Pull all your money out of your bank when they announce Marshal law. Only 3 million Americans are prepared for ground zero.
I truly hate to see such a juvenile criticism of all our police across America , Not anyone here knows the entire scenario as it played out , Many here in particular ,act like first year law students in a liberal college - jumping to conclusions based on one news media post . How soon it's all forgotten when the arrest records come out in the investigation . Popular opinion is a frail and blind witness to any altercation , I'll give you this to chew on , Google up the average entry level police patrolman's pay , Not much money is offered for a baby sitter , a shrink , a teacher , a social worker and a public mentor , all of these things the latest requirement for a police officers . My advice , raise your own kids and stop asking the cops to be baby sitters for latch key spoiled brat kids , many of them begin life with a juvenile record and they only get worse as they age .
As far as I'm concerned , There are far less Bad Cops than there are Bad People ! It's always been that way - so what exactly HAS changed ?
There maybe many good cops yet their bosses are rotten to the core.
If this version is true, that officer is a threat to the public. Not a bullet to the target but a shot to the one he was trying to save? Btw, no other officer fired their weapons, maybe the others did hear the guy...?
Well damn... Cop was shooting at the white man. No racism at all. Unless of course you are the type that believes in fate.
I lived in London for thirty years and drove into work routinely. There were always a few cars pulled over by the police. And guess what? They were pretty much always black people.
Black friends always left details of where they were going when they went out at night because there was always a serious chance they would end up in a police station somewhere. Maybe, not in the best condition.
Mothers would beg their teenage sons not to go out after dark.
Police racism is a universal problem in white societies.
Now, I am white in a non-white society. Do I get problems? Of course not.
No ideologies have been developed to demonise white people.
Thomas Matthews, the 73-year-old property manager of a corner food store on the street where Kinsey was shot, said he watched the incident unfold through a pair of binoculars.
Matthews said Kinsey and the man with autism often stop by his store to buy candy and juices. “They are always laughing and talking,” Matthews said. He said he saw a female officer with her gun drawn, following behind a male officer who pulled a rifle out of his car, and tried to alert her.
“With the binoculars I could see the toy truck in the autistic kid’s hand,” Matthews said Thursday. “I tried to tell the female officer, but she barked at me to get back.”
Matthews said he then saw the male officer raise the rifle and shoot three times.
On a related note https://www.thenation.com/article/why-i … caregivers. So sad, for so many reasons.
The cop who shot unarmed Charles Kinsey in Miami has been named. The North Miami Police Department named the officer as Jonathan Aledda, who has been placed on administrative leave.
Police also announced that another, high-ranking officer, Commander Emile Hollant, had been suspended without pay after he gave "conflicting" statements to investigators about the shooting.
“The police officer who you’ve just heard named, who has been put on leave, totally violated his trust from the public to protect and serve. By giving misinformation to this department, he not only jeopardized Mr. Kinsey’s life and the life of his client, but he jeopardized the life of every police officer who serves in this city.We will not tolerate those types of behavior,” Councilman Scott Galvin said at Friday’s press conference.
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