Another Police Officer Shows Extreme Unprofessionalism
Another example of unreasonable (and therefore unlawful) force being used by a police officer who was evidently away on the day they covered "de escalation" at the academy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R46-XTqXkzENot knowing what went down to warrant the detaining of the kids, I can't tell either way if the cop was reacting to the threat or escalating it. I did see a couple of white kids being held but there were many more black kids being held. The girl in the bikini was heeding the instructions and at one point was walking away as instructed. I think she said something smart to jack pot herself in it as well. The boy that came up behind the cop and acted as if he had something in his pocket or was just pulling up his pants almost got shot. I think it was more how quickly he moved at the cop than what he may have had in his hand if anything. They caught him as well.
There was so much going on and disrespect it is hard to point to anybody as the culprit. I know when I was young if a cop told me to freeze I would do just that. I would not get into a legal discussion about my rights and further exasperate my chances of walking free.Exactly , the absolute disconnect between youth and any authority is most evident today . Simply put , ego , machismo , extroversion , those all important ingredients in any gathering today . In the sixties and seventies , If a cop ever told us to do anything right or wrong , we did it ! There is simply NO respect for anyone doing that job today . I cannot sympathize with the idiocy of any culture that cannot act civil in a civil setting .
I have no respect for any "man" who acts the way this police officer did. He acted like a petulant child, who seemed more upset because the 14 year olds were not taking him seriously. Being annoyed because a teenager is talking back, is not reasonable justification for a police officer to use physical force.
A video prior to her arrest shows her fighting with another girl. Not hearing the conversation I can only guess what she said. But she was identified as one of the fighters and was arrested for it against her wishes. Her struggling anf not following directions only made it worse for her.
I agree with you, there was no need for such behavior. It seems he already had animosity against the kids before he even arrived.
None of what you said justifies the officer throwing the girl to the ground, and kneeling on their back. If the officer did that because the girl "said something" then his use of force was unlawful.
And if he did it for some other reason it might have been quite lawful (although I thought he was kneeling on her spine, too, when he moved I had to say that perhaps he was not).
I tend to think it was because he was out of control, and his subsequent resignation kind of bears that out.
But either way, to declare the incident to be "extreme unprofessionalism" is out of line with nothing but a phone video of part of the incident to go on. It's the type of verbiage that resulted in the burning of Baltimore.The interaction played out between him and the girl was captured very clearly. She was talking back. He didn't like it, so he threw her to the ground; a 14 year old girl, who clearly posed a threat to his safety as she sat there in shock calling for her mommy. Meanwhile he's repeatedly swearing at a group of minors. Not only is his behaviour extremely unprofessional, it's also an abuse of authority. Resignation or not, unless he can prove that his use of force against that girl meets the criteria for the use of force, he should be arrested and charged with assault.
And I agree that " unless he can prove that his use of force against that girl meets the criteria for the use of force, he should be arrested and charged with assault".
I just disagree that viewing that short (and partial) record of the entire episode gives you or anyone else to claim "unprofessionalism" on the part of the cop. You simply do NOT have the information necessary to make that claim.His swearing alone was unprofessional. He's supposed to act calmly under pressure, not swear at kids because they are talking back to him, let alone throw them to the ground. His chief of police said "He came into the incident out of control, and as the video shows, was out of control during the incident". So yes I think we can judge his actions as unprofessional based on the video. Glad to see the Chief is not blindly closing ranks as usually happens. I wonder if the officer will now be held accountable for his actions and charged with assault. I doubt it. Wouldn't it be refreshing though if the officer held a press conference, admitted his behaviour was unacceptable, and offered a heartfelt apology to the community. I suppose that would be too much to expect from the sort of "man" who throws a 14 year old girl to the ground for being sassy.
Perhaps if the police had been wearing body cameras the whole situation would have been much clearer.
It's absolutely not that cut and dry. There's much more than a cell phone video. The kid who shot the video filled in all the blanks for us in more than a few news interviews. He tells the whole story. Other teens have also given their accounts about being antagonize by one of the white parents.
As for Baltimore, and any other riots including Watts and L.A., people didn't take to the streets until all witness accounts and evidence we dismissed and pissed on by the justice system. Stop acting like people saw a clip on the news and just ran out and started setting sh*t on fire.Don't be ridiculous; people very often take to the streets and riot only hours after such an incident. They don't care one iota about truth or justice; just in promoting a political power structure (promoters of a riot) and in stealing and destroying (those actually rioting).
So yes, seeing a clip on the news is sufficient reason for all too many to riot and set sh*t on fire. Especially when there's a free TV or pillowcase in it for them.LA. Police had barely begun an investigation when the riots took place. In fact, I don't believe there has been a single riot after a police incident where an investigation was completed - rioters don't care what the facts are. A cell phone video, claims from "witnesses" (that also don't care about truth) are all that it takes.
L.A. riots? The one where the police investigation led to a trial, which led to acquittal? You really need to take another look at thattimeline. I live in L.A. and that isn't how it unfolded.
My apologies; I grabbed it from your post while thinking of another. Senility has set in, I think.
No, not LA. I was thinking of the recent riot in Ferguson.Hey I make many mistakes too. Yes, the Ferguson unrest did start the day after Mike Brown was killed. The peaceful protesters and residents actually starting cleaning up behind the looters. Keep in mind that looters are not rioters, and rioters are not peaceful protesters. There are three groups that do not mix well. Looters are just using the opportunity to come up and they don't even care about the subject at hand. But when you watch the news and see chaos pretty much everyone gets blamed, peaceful or not.
Don't misunderstand - Ferguson gave some hope for the human race, IMO (unless I'm confusing them again). Pictures, for instance, of local citizens protecting that thin blue line by lining up in front of them.
And absolutely there are groups that don't mix, but the line is very vague and blurry between "peaceful protesters" and rioters (looting is too tame a word for what happened there). IMO, and it is opinion only, most peaceful demonstrations that disintegrate into riots and looting are actually well planned - demonstrator leaders know very well that peaceful demonstrations do not draw media attention like violence and capitalize on it. There are undoubtedly many demonstrators that truly want no violence, but there also many that do want it for the attention it garners. There is also no lack of big name commentators and speakers that deliberately inflame emotions, IMO to promote a demonstration into a riot. I have yet to see Sharpton or his ilk actually call for and promote peace - the rhetoric is full of loaded words and high emotion, just right to build the fire already smoldering.Yeah I'm not a fan of Al Sharpton. Although I don't agree with rioting, I can understand the anger that motivates it. I was a freshman in high school when the L.A. riots started. I remember thinking it didn't make any sense. I was upset about the trial verdict just like a lot of other people but the looting was lost on me. I couldn't go to school or pretty much anywhere else because there were people running in the streets carrying stolen tv's, chairs, food, etc. The national guard was standing in front of the banks. After it was all over we didn't have anywhere to shop locally and had to start driving out to other areas. My neighborhood still has some of those very same empty lots 23 years later, though bigger and newer businesses have opened here since then.
People don't know what to do with the anger. I don't mean the looters. I mean those who are genuinely pissed off about the situation and just let emotions run amok.Yeah. Well, hint for those that are angry and don't know what to do about it - burning down or ruining your neighborhood isn't going to help.
Truthfully, though, it isn't those that are mad and don't know what to do that are destroying and looting everything in sight. They have better sense - it is those that don't give a **** about anything but themselves. We all have peeves, but we don't destroy our neighborhood 'cause we're mad at something else. It takes a special brand of stupidity to do that.A special brand of stupidity or perhaps a special brand of frustration with a system that they don't see as representing them or supporting them, with no other way of showing their frustration with that system.
How many riots coincide with a court case that appears to ignore the victim and support the transgressor?When frustration results in self destruction/harm it becomes stupidity. We can sugar coat it, we can pretend that it's someone else's fault, or we can term if "special form of frustration" but when it's all said and done it was and is an extremely stupid thing to do. Doubly so when you add in the harm to other people, innocent of any wrongdoing.
A lot of things we do are stupid. Swinging a fourteen year old girl round by her hair is pretty stupid.
Stupid isn't a reason for doing anything. It's an excuse and perhaps once labelled stupid a reason not to look any further."A lot of things we do are stupid. Swinging a fourteen year old girl round by her hair is pretty stupid."
As is grossly exaggerating the event
"Stupid isn't a reason for doing anything. It's an excuse and perhaps once labelled stupid a reason not to look any further."
Not true - it actually is a reason. Just not an (acceptable) excuse.
You should see her in the fight that preceeded the video you posted. It was a real catfish with adults trying to separate them. I don't like seeing disturbing footage like this anymore than you but I also would not want to be the cop thrown into this situation. They are trained to take control of the situation. This girl was just out of control prior to this scene.
She was clearly not involved in a catfight at the time he threw her to the ground so his use of force was unreasonable. That was not taking control. It was an assault of an unarmed 14 year girl. In fact the only person "out of control" was the police officer himself, an assessment his own Chief of Police apparently agrees with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9AagT2zUkY
a main problem, the 14 year old girl was walking away and the cop retrieved her because of what she said? There was no grounds to accost this teen, none whatsoever. Why just the black kids, were not any of the white kids involved? It was a presumption of innocence of the white teens, without anyone really knowing who was guilty and who was not? The use of unrestrained profanity by this officer toward the teens was not professional.
Of course, investigation is needed and warranted, as to whether excessive force was employed and also whether there was equal administration of the law and its application on the scene by this officerLook for the video prior to this one. The girl was involved in a fight prior to this video. And yes I think if you have a big mouth and lack of common respect there should be accountability for it. As far as an only black thing look in the beginning as there are a couple of white kids being told to sit down and shut up as well. Guess what? They heeded the cops advice.
Alright, RH, I will look at the previous video. But wasn't the girl going away from the scene? There is no crime in talking back to the police officer to justify his manhandling of her. The accountability is not arrest and being accosted. I am free to say whatever I like, no crime is committed
As you walk out of the bank just after a robbery it and the cop demands you stop and get on the ground, you go ahead and sass him and walk away.
Then explain to the judge that he had no right to use force to stop you and put you on the ground. That you can say and do whatever you wish regardless of any circumstances or what is happening around you. I dare say it won't go down will with the judge either.I think that she was told to go away and she was doing that, he just did not like her smart mouth. I think that that was his problem, he ran after her and subjected her to the abuse because she 'talked back'. While that cop was swearing like a sailor in the midst of minor children. That lefty side of me does not like people that abuse discretion in regards to their power and authority. Iwas asked to present identification by some plain clothed person at the Denver airport some 40 years ago and I was a smart kid too, he threatened me when I asked to see his credentials. He got indignant about the fact that I dared to ask for it. Was I not justified, I just don't give my ID to anyone who asked for it. and I knew what the cops could and could not do. That sort of thing annoys me and I think that is what the cop did with the young girl. I don't like folks to use authority solely to imtimidate me, without justification.
I found the video prior to this one where the fight was under way. I could be mistaken as the bikini the girl in the fight was wearing is similar to the one the girl who got arrested was wearing but not the same. Maybe the cop was mistaken as well or the witness's that may have pointed her out. Anyway he has resigned and maybe some others have learned from this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAtq_K8XSG8
The way people defend this cop is sickening. The boy who filmed the whole thing even said it was crazy how he, as a white boy, seemed invisible to the cop. So how did this cop pick and choose to detain, since he showed up and had to assess the situation without knowing who did what? IDGAF what that girl said to him but it didn't warrant him manhandling her. That's the same excuse woman-beating assholes use, "She was running her mouth". Get outta here with that BS if you try to justify this.
There's a lack of community policing and not enough accountability for the officers. I'm sure the growing lack of respect is because cops are distancing themselves more from the community than in the past. The struggles between civilians and the police has been long documented and there were plenty of historic periods where corruption and excess violence reigned. We need to preach respect among the youth and the police as well as more communal interaction otherwise it'll be a lost cause.
My observation of police officers has been that most are bullies before they join the force. This video is not surprising to me at all. I hope the one who threw that girl to the ground is the one that got suspended.
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago
0Not many of you here are addressing the FACT that there is little respect by anyone today towards -any authorities . I have little room for sympathy for fools , on either side of the law . But the first response today by most people is wrong to begin with . "Why are you singling out me [ or my child ]?"
Instead most of you are seeing the racial difference , more than likely it is those of you who do that ; that are the real racially motivated whiners . Not more than three decades ago there would have been pretty much nothing but respect for the police , even if you wanted to react like a child .
And if a thirteen or fourteen year old can break the laws like an adult , they can suffer the consequences , like an adult ! There are bad cops of course , but for the most part , there is far more idiocy in the youthful party crowd.I haven't mentioned race once. Not in the opening post, or in any subsequent posts. I think there are questions about race to be answered, but I haven't asked them here.
More respect for police 30 years ago? I don't think teenagers in 1985 had any more or less respect for police than teenagers in 2015. Besides, why should anyone respect a grown man who is behaving like a child having a temper tantrum? Because he will use unreasonable force against you if you don't? That's unacceptable. And talking back is not "breaking the law". Neither is being a immature. Teenagers are immature by definition. They typically do not have the same level of knowledge and experience as adults. If a police officer can't deal with getting some sass from a teenager without resorting to profanity and violence, then he is in the wrong profession. This situation turned nasty because of the out of control actions of one police officer who couldn't control his temper, and it is right to criticize his behaviour. Thankfully he is not representative of all police officers."Besides, why should anyone respect a grown man who is behaving like a child having a temper tantrum? Because he will use unreasonable force against you if you don't?"
Don: I agree with a lot of what you say but anyone with common sense should acquiesce to the guy with the gun. If you have complaints they should be filed later with the corroborating witness's and video.While calm acquiescence to unjustified police violence might be the most rational response, the expectation that people will react that way is unreasonable, because people are not robots. The expectation that a police officer will remain calm and rational, however, is reasonable, because 1) that's what they are trained for, and 2) that's what the majority do, most of the time. So I think it's unfair to criticize this girl for having a reasonable expectation that a police officer will act rationally, and it's unreasonable to criticize her for failing to recognize the danger of not passively submitting to a police officer who was, in the words of his own police chief, "out of control". She reacted exactly the way I would expect any 14 year old girl to react after being thrown to the ground by a full grown man: with anger, fear, shock and a desire for someone to call her parents. There was nothing wrong in her reaction.
Ultimately, a child's safety should never be dependent on their ability to behave more rationally than a police officer. That's an unfair, unreasonable and unacceptable expectation.14 years old is not a baby and there should be some degree op respect already ingrained in her character somewhere. What has this whole incident taught the young girl? That if you yell and scream and resist you will get your way? What if by her distraction the boy seen approaching the cop from the back had a knife or gun? The cop feared something like that could indeed have happened. That is why the gun was drawn. Ultimately the right thing happened and no one was hurt but the whole thing could have had a different ending had the adolescents not begun a fight and the police not needed. Obviously an adult in the situation called the police to get order out of chaos. Eventually that happened with a few parents coming out and saying the police reacted as they had wished. Their words, not mine.
Yes, RH, but respect is a two way street. The cop by treating the kids like animals and throwing around expletives, did not behave professionally which is the basis of mutual respect. The black kids even in the video still seemed to be getting the brunt of the results of the melee. What about the white female that instigated this with her assault? In spite of perceptions by whites, these anomalies always seem to appear and less and less random. Yes, he was suspended and probably should be fired for using poor judgment. I can't visualize this officer waving his firearm around threateningly among a bunch of white teens who "got out of control'. Conservatives always speak about race-neutral, we still have a long way to go before we reach that milestone.
In a situation such as this the cop is supposed to take control of it. Being surrounded by menacing yelling and screaming does not lend itself to calm and rational conversation. And when approached from the rear it goes south in a hurry as witnessed on the video. If you wish to make it a racial thing I guess you have some evidence but don't you think for a minute that black kids are the only one being singled out.
Years ago as I was traveling between L.A. and D.C. in Arkansas I was singled out as a white male driving an older Dodge or Plymouth. I pulled up to a gas station to fill my tank and was promptly surrounded by three cop cars. They got out and drew down on me. What should I have done in response as I had done nothing wrong? Should I have gotten out of the car and started yelling at them to leave me alone as I had not done anything wrong? Should I have espoused my legal rights to demand evidence as to why they treated me in this threatening manner? Mind you these were deputy sheriffs who thought they had a bank robber. I put my hands on the wheel and waited and FOLLOWED all of their instructions. I listened as the radio dispatch described me to a tee. The only thing missing was I did not have a beard. They even rubbed my face to be sure I had just not recently shaved. They let me go in about an hour and I was on my way. The moral to the story is just to do what they say and let them figure it out. If you bark and bellyache about your rights the cops become immediately suspicious of your innocence and will match your anger or respect either way you want it.
A side note is that this all happened in front of a barbequed chicken joint next door where everyone wide eyed had their noses plastered to the window watching it all go down. When the cops let me go I went inside to get something to eat and they all stared at me like I was some sort of criminal. When I couldn't take it anymore I turned to the dinning room and said "they had the wrong guy, it wasn't me". A bunch of them laughed and went about eating.You are a cool dude, RH, lets get this out on the table.
As an adult, you assessed the situation and behaved appropriately, of course. Adolescents are known for poor judgment and impulsive behavior. Heck, I was no different at that age. I don't expect the reasoning skills of a 14 year old to approach that of an adult. There is a bumper sticker that said "Hurry, hire a teenager, while they still know it all"! Regardless of upbringing, teens are prone to get into trouble for just the things that I mentioned earlier. I expect professional law enforcement people to take these kinds of things into account when doing their job.
As for the race thing, check it out, statistics consistenly support a disparity on treatment of AA males and that of whites when confronted with the law officer on the beat, or highways and in the criminal justice system by the judges and juries. Statistics say that blacks are treated with less leniency regardless of the fact that their records and offenses do not differ from that of a omparable white suspect. I can produce stats if you want them. The 'machine' responsible for these disparities is not monolithic, but is made up of individuals; their reactions, judgment and,yes. prejudices. The cops that killed the 12 year old boy in Cleveland, killed the young man in Ferguson, leaving his corpse to rot on the street for 5 hours without contacting anyone, are no more than Borg drones, operating on behalf of the collective. But who is keen to the telepathy and its source that control their behavior? There seems to be an all encompassing attitude by whites toward blacks, pervasive, that people just as soon not acknowledge nor talk about openly. The rage and resentment expressed by the white lady in the Dallas suburb to the point that she assualted a young black woman. But the results of that attitude are shown in the general statistics that must trump any of our individual experiences in this matter.Living near some major highways I have seen your scenario played out time and time again where you have a car pulled over with a black male being ticketed or waiting for a drug sniffing dog to get there and go through the routine. We politely call it a DWB (driving while black). Truth be told every now and again I see a white dude wearing all the gang gear and tattoos that profile him rather easily. Usually there is something like a tail light out of they are speeding but so where many others that were not pulled over. As more and more poor are in desperate situations the criminal element will arise. They are then easy pickings for the profile. How do you train a cop to ignore his instincts? It could cost him his life.
As far as being cool under fire and doing what the cops wanted me to do I was raised that way. I was about 26 years old when that happened. I had a few more wild years in me but I always respected the law and the guy who put his life in harms way to protect mine. There were and still are a few bad apples in the barrel but I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong.I guess that I would say that the law officers ' instinct' should not be triggered on the fact merely that someone has a dark skin, excluding all other factors. Nobody likes racial profiling or that based on non-substantive criteria, it is an lazy workaround to doing good police work.
Don't get me wrong, most cops do thier jobs well, I am just saying that there is a general bias in our society and cops, being part of that, cannot avoid being influenced and affected by it. The effect of that is shown through statistic mentioned previously.I agree but the boy that approached the cop from behind hiding his hand behind his back waistband triggered the weapon out of the holster. I would have drawn down as well in a similar scenario. All the shouting and cussing changed when that happened. Whether it was instinct or what the boy is lucky to be alive.
There are many instances of racial profiling out of hand. Freddy Gray, Trayvon Martin and similar shootings were racial by definition. When you are a cop surrounded by unfriendly screaming faces some of the color shifts towards survival.
The logical conclusion to what you are saying is that there should be unquestioning obedience to police officers, from every member of the public, at all times, regardless of circumstances, under threat of injury or death. Well that's what a police state looks like, so I sincerely hope you don't get your wish.
It's not untypical for a teenager to get into a fight. It's not untypical for a teenager not to listen to an authority figure (let alone one who is acting less mature than them). It's not untypical for a teenager to be confused, angry, shocked and scared after being thrown to the ground by a fully grown man. It is untypical and unprofessional for a police officer to launch into a tirade of profanities in front of a group of minors. It is untypical and unprofessional for a police officer to throw a teen to the ground due to losing his temper. It is untypical and unprofessional for a police officer to behave in a way that causes his Chief of Police to describe his behaviour as "out of control". No, the girl was not the issue. Nothing she did, or did not do, in that video, justified the police officer's actions against her.
And swearing, and being violent is not what "taking control" looks like. It's what being out of control looks like. Teachers take control of classrooms full of unruly, sulky, disobedient, disrespectful teenagers every day without swearing and throwing them to the ground. Not all teenagers are like that, but it's fair to say a good proportion are. Perhaps that police officer should have taken some lessons from a highschool teacher.
Whatever way you look at it, the officers' actions towards that girl are inexcusable. Yet people still want to try to shift some of the blame onto her because she wasn't a perfect victim, despite the offices' boss describing his actions towards her as "indefensible". Trying to defend the indefensible doesn't make much sense to me.Once again , you guys are categorically condemning ALL police behavior to one or two incidents . Yes - one should always obey an officer of the law ! And to do it till it hurts [figure of speech ] even when you know he's wrong , first and always and only IF you know one is acting out of order , then you file a report after the incident ,, hire an attorney , or question in some way the proper authority . Only an idiot would fight the cops and expect anything but getting arrested .
There used to be a saying when I was growing up " You can't out-run a police radio " , unfortunately our youth culture today gets all puffy chested in front of a crowd - sooo , whatever happens , happens !I didn't "categorically condemn" all police officers at all. I said clearly, several times, that it is untypical for police officers to behave that way.
Expecting perfect obedience to the police, from every member of the public, at all times, regardless of age, intellect, maturity and circumstance, is a silly and unreasonable expectation (unless you are a mad dictator). People are not robots. That police officer, with all his training, was unable to control his emotions. Yet ordinary members of the public are expected to remain perfectly calm while being assaulted? That's ridiculous.
And this girl did not "fight the cops". She screamed, and cried, and called for someone to call her parents. That's a perfectly normal and natural response from a 14 year old who is being wrestled to the ground by a full grown man. It's not fair or reasonable to criticize someone for not remaining silent, and motionless while they are potentially being assaulted.
Instead of criticizing this girl for not acting like a robot, it makes more sense to ensure that the officer in question is held accountable. That includes filing criminal charges if they are warranted. As this officer has resigned, the police internal investigation has ended. Is there a criminal investigation underway? If not, why not? The police chief publicly described the officer's actions as "indefensible". Does that mean his use of force can be deemed as unlawful? If so, why has he not been arrested? The emphasis needs to be on the person at fault here. That person is the police officer who acted out of control, not the 14 year old girl who acted, by all accounts, like 14 year old girl.But you see , That Is The Problem , we expect Godlike accountability out of a cop trying to raise our children and expect nothing of proper behavior out of , yes , even a fourteen year old brat . Problem- Everyone ! Has to be held personally responsible for all acts of social behavior. Not un- like in schools today where we expect the teachers to "change the diapers" of bad behavior. It's the same with cops , they are not out there to correct the miss-behavior of spoiled brats . When our youth enter into the social , public world , they alone are accountable for their acts .
What are we teaching our kids - Non-conformity to proper social , public act's , is just fine ?If the police can't control their behaviour, why should we expect "14 year old brats" to be able to?
Your statement just plain doesn't make sense John , You say "If the police can't control their behavior " , why so typical for some ,to generalize ALL police behavior by the acts of one or even a few out of how many , a million ?
And yet , in this culture , it is well known that we expect little impulse control from our precious teenagers ? Truth be known these kids at any party are simply "getting them out of my hair ", by their parents . John I grew up in the sixties and seventies when all social behaviors were being tried and tested and yet we still new NOT to kick a hornets nest .
At the very least , these kids are simply without any common sense , Is it then right to ask our police to be social workers , teachers , mentors of personal accountabilities , Baby -sitters or Au pairs as you might call them ?......:-}I thought we were talking about this one situation, not police in general.
We expect little impulse control from teenagers because their brains are wired differently from those of adults.Kids of that sort of age are widely understood to be lacking in common sense. Did the police believe that they could beat common sense into them?
I didn't see any of those kids kicking any hornets nests, I saw a girl being assaulted by a grown man who should have been protecting her. I saw other kids being chased down by full grown policemen. I saw a total over reaction by the police in a situation that could have been dealt with without arrests or assaults by one less gung-ho officer.
It is no surprise that your police are losing respect.
It is probable that the police of our youth had a better perspective and control.
Police officers being held accountable for abuse of authority is not an expectation of "Godlike accountability", it's just an expectation of accountability. And the expectation that a 14 year old girl is likely to shout, cry and call for her mother after being thrown to the ground, is not an acceptance of improper behaviour, it's an expectation of perfectly normal and understandable behaviour.
I suggest you watch the video again. Whatever misbehaviour you are talking about, it is not being displayed by this particular girl, in this particular video. She did nothing that warranted being dragged to the ground. And once she was on the ground, she did nothing that warranted the officer shouting "on your face!" and pushing her head into the ground. The officer did what he did because he was angry. That's an abuse of authority. You say "Everyone! Has to be held personally responsible for all acts of social behavior". Okay, so why aren't you calling for a criminal investigation to determine if the officer's use of force was lawful?
The point about teachers is that they have to control groups of teenagers without swearing or using physical force, and they do, every day. While it's reasonable to say that students should listen to their teachers, if a teacher threw a student to the ground for talking back, no one in their right mind would say that was justified. Likewise, it's reasonable to say that most police officers are deserving of respect, but it's ludicrous to suggest that talking back to a police officer justifies the actions this officer took. It doesn't.
I don't think there should be unquestioning obedience. For example inappropriate or unreasonable requests. But other than that and especially in a crowd control situation you should adhere to the instructions until a calmer time can make explanations and arguments be heard. A cop is trained to gain control of the situation first, identify the problem and then take appropriate actions to remedy the disturbance. Rushing the cop from behind is not going to get you a arm around the shoulder and a how do you do.
Do we know what she said or did to set the cop off? Do you? There was a lot of action happening at one time. The cop came out today and said it was a very stressful situation and he reacted poorly to it. It was his training that prevented anybody getting shot. He felt threatened and outnumbered. Very stressful in my mind.
Have you been around young people recently. Cussing and trash talking is the norm. If the cop was hearing that coming his way what would be the proper kind of language he should have used?
I don't want to shift any blame on the girl, just her actions. When told to get down on your stomach you should do it. He held her with his knee in her back because he did not want to let his guard down long enough to cuff her. It is very disturbing to watch. Young people are so used to talking back to their elders inappropriately that this is just another example of a spoiled little girl not getting her way.Perhaps we should re-train our cops to give anyone under 18 a time out or stand them in a corner for 10 minutes.
In the case of what was shown on that clip that would have been the most appropriate reaction.
There was no evidence of "cussing and trash talking" but if there was, the proper kind of language he used should have been along the lines of "Am I cussing and swearing at you? Then don't cuss and swear at me, if you continue I shall have to arrest you". None of the police in that clip showed any skill at conflict resolution, in fact many of them showed much ability at conflict inflation.
He was surrounded by a huge group of kids. Kids can and usually will do anything stupid. Calm and collected is not the way to dominate the situation. I will not second guess what these cops did as I was not in that situation. How many times have you heard that a suspect was shot while lunging at the cops? This kid did exactly that and the gun put him in a hasty retreat. Life is not nice and neat with a bow on top. These kids have learned that no matter what you do you can turn it around and blame someone else. We make excuses for our kids and they learn nothing from it. We have a whole generation of spoiled and pampered kids who think they are at the center of the universe.
"Calm and collected" is the only way to dominate that situation.
I'm not making excuses for the kids, but then I'm not making excuses for the cops either.
If an experienced police officer who is trained to deal with emergencies, felt that "it was a very stressful situation", then imagine how the 14 year old he threw around like a ragdoll felt. Yet you seem to think it's reasonable to criticize her for not remaining calm while that was happening.
You say you don't want to shift blame to the girl, but by suggesting her actions are somehow to blame for this officer's behaviour, you are doing exactly that. Nothing this girl did or didn't do warranted the actions this police officer took against her.
And saying "they swore first" to justify the officer's swearing at a group of minors is ridiculous. 1) because on the video no one is heard swearing directly at the officer, but he is clearly heard swearing directly at others, and 2) because someone who is entrusted with enforcing the law (which includes the authority to use lethal force) should have a greater level of maturity than a group of teenagers.
Even though the Chief of Police has publicly described his officer's actions as "out of control" and "indefensible", and the officer himself has said he behaved poorly because of "emotional stress", people are still trying to blame the girl for something, anything. That really is a miserable state of affairs.Sorry you feel that way. Many have come to his defense so I guess we will have to scratch our heads and wonder what the next incident will be.
Sadly you're probably right.
But there is a learning opportunity here. If you watch the video at 30 seconds you see how a different officer is behaving.
He is standing there very calmly talking to a group of teens. You hear him say, ". . . go grab your bag, I'm just saying don't take off running when the cops get here". His voice is at normal conversational level. He isn't swearing, and you can hear he is deliberately using a tone appropriate to his audience. It's the older-brother-authoritative-but-not-your-enemy tone that you hear good cops use sometimes. Teachers use it too. He is calm and approachable, and he is responding to their concerns (one is worried about his bag). In short, he is establishing rapport. In response you can hear teenagers volunteering information: "None of them were involved. . . I know who was involved" etc. So his actions were professional, appropriate, and effective.
That all gets interrupted when T.J Hooker* starts throwing people to the ground. At that point everything goes haywire. So criticizing Casebolt's approach is not just a case of hindsight bias. Uniquely here is an example of two officers taking different approaches to the same incident. One shows the behaviour I would expect of a police officer, the other shows the behaviour that leads to your resignation a few days later. If nothing else, it can serve as training material showing officers what to do, and what not to do. It's just a shame the cost of that material was the traumatization of a 14 year old girl.
*For any "young'uns" who don't know, this is T.J Hooker. It seems officer Casebolt really really wants to be this character.
Without knowing what went on before I found it surprising to see such a heavy police presence for what seemed like a peaceful group of kids.
Surely one or two could have defused that situation. Teenage girls (and boys) fight. They rarely do each other any harm and more often than not, ten minutes later they're inseparable friends again.
It's not surprising that the police are held in so little respect. Since when has idiotic behaviour on its own been a criminal offence?
And Wilderness, these kids weren't robbing a bank, they weren't even threatening a bank! They were having fun, or is that unlawful as well?
Know who else saw the racial difference? The boy who shot the video. Now tell that child that his eyes deceive him. Go ahead and discount his feelings and his own first-hand experience. That is dismissive and lazy thinking.
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
I pick up the news paper and read , story after story involves the immaturity of youth - AND their parents , How many times do we see parents in a fighting mode because of the " My children wouldn't ever do that " syndrome ? I've seen it being on juries , I've seen it in the courts and in our schools ,to say nothing of our college campus' , ........in reality it's more like " the terrible two's" has evolved , somehow, right into adulthood !
We can blame stupid cop's all day , there are a few around but for the most part it's behavioral problems born of the lack of social maturity of our youth ."Immaturity of youth"!
You couldn't make it up. What do you think maturity is?
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
I have not watched THIS video , But still, there is a major plague of disrespect for all authority in American youth culture . And it begins at home with the new waves of free range child rearing today . It is so obvious , we've laughed about it coming out of canned sit coms on TV for two or three decades , we've seen it out of Hollywood rag papers , it's been this way in our schools , from grade school to college . Try to sit down in a restaurant for a quiet meal , it's right there at the table next to you , it's there .In traffic , in small towns and in the cities .
I don't feel bad for those who are arrested or for there parents that have raised and nurtured such generally lousy social behavior in their off-spring . Are there bad cops' too ? Sure . But if the stress of dealing with bad attitudes for a living is what they have to contend with , this is what's going to happen .
We all love the song , "Teach your children well " , but have we? , I think not so much .I suggest then that you spend a few minutes to view the video of a grown man throwing around like a rag doll, a girl half his size. While you are at it perhaps you can tell us all what threat she presented to the officer.
If you watch it it might go some way to explaining why there is such a lack of respect for the police.
- PrettyPantherposted 9 years ago0
Once again, we have the usual suspects doing their usual routine. Excusing the behavior of the armed, trained (supposedly), brave (supposedly) authority figure who also is a public servant while blaming the victims, who in this case, are minors.
Hmmm, brave adult trained to protect and serve the public can't handle a pool party without tossing around little girls in bikinis by the hair and pulling a gun on unarmed boys. So brave. So well trained. Such a role model.
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
One or two in a million , what we need to do is keep it all in perspective , NOT take a few incident's out of context and generalize all cops as being just like these ! I have never been treated without respect by a cop , and they have had reasons to do just that .
Trying all police in the public forum court is like a cheap Hollywood script !
Believe me - the lawsuit will pay off for all the bratty kids, they will never have to work again !I take it that you didn't find the time to watch the short video!
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
Here's a few facts , 114 police officers killed on duty in 2014 , 46 of whom were shot to death . I haven't read so many forum posts about that either , nor will we I suppose and why ? Because we in Hub Page forums don't look at statistics , we flare up the old reactionary threads about a couple of spoiled brats being arrested ? Anyone want to make a hub about cops killed on the job , Ya.....that's what I thought . Want to ask why --look at the "Related Discussions Below "
This is what I mean about keeping things in perspective , thereby not sensationalizing an incident taken out of context , just saying . Who are we anyway , the mainstream media ?176 civilians killed by police so far in 2015, from an article posted onMarch 6, 2015. So, if that rate continues, then well over 1000 civilians will be killed by the police before the end of this year.
Perspective.
Police officer deaths in 2014:
Line of Duty Deaths: 134
9/11 related illness: 7
Assault: 2
Automobile accident: 27
Drowned: 2
Duty related illness: 3
Fire: 1
Gunfire: 47
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 19
Motorcycle accident: 4
Struck by vehicle: 5
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 10
Perspective.
By the way, as is your usual MO, you accuse anyone who thinks a particular cop has behaved criminally of lumping all cops together. I haven't seen anyone do that. However, it is evident that something is wrong with the training cops receive. So many of them seem to be cowards, given how often they "fear for their life" when their victims have no weapon, and are homeless, or disabled, or a teenage girl sitting in a police station, or a deaf black man walking home from work, or a veteran with PTSD sitting in a chair with his hands tied in a police station, or a 91-year-old man barricaded in his bedroom, or a young professional walking down the street wearing headphones.
Shall I go on describing the types of citizens who drive fear into the hearts of heavily armed officers of the law?"By the way, as is your usual MO, you accuse anyone who thinks a particular cop has behaved criminally of lumping all cops together."
How else can anyone read your statement that:
"Once again, we have the usual suspects doing their usual routine."I was referring to those who would defend obviously criminal acts by law enforcement by trying to place blame on the victim. We even had some defend the cop who shot the man running away 8 times in the back.
That's what I meant by the usual suspects doing their usual routine.
Oh please do , why stop generalizing at this point ! I mean you didn't list WHY these innocent civilians were all killed by police .
I could post all the videos but you wouldn't watch them, because it wouldn't be related to your point, right?
There are plenty of good cops. Plenty. What sucks is that the good cops should be trying to force out the bad ones but the system makes it hard for them to do so. Those who have tried speaking out have been bullied, threatened and even killed by rogue cops for snitching. So it's easier for them to say nothing at all. I feel sorry for those who want to do something but feel powerless. A rogue cop gets more support from the protective league than a good cop who wants to weed out the bad ones.
This is exactly right.
Missouri state trooper disciplined after blowing the whistle in custody drowning death
I see outnumbered police. Trying to get control of a bunch of kids that have no respect for the law. Teach kids to respect authority. I see. Running .i see evading. I see argumentative youths doing everything but being cooperative. I see a out of control mob.no wonder cops get frustrated
I see a bunch of scared kids running from the cops because they're thinking of the last boy that got shot in the back, and the guy who cooperated by dropping to his knees only to be choked to death, and Oscar Grant who was shot point blank in the head while cooperating and in handcuffs. Or what about Freddie Gray, who allowed himself to be cuffed and loaded into a van only to show up at the station with a broken neck? Academy training is there for a reason. Being a cop is a scary situation and you can lose your life, but you also have the power to take a life. If the academy can't get you to respect your ability to lose and take life, YOU ARE UNFIT. PERIOD.
Good thing you're not a cop. Too bad so many are like you.
I see your the judge and jury. To bad so many are like you. Bad cops act just like that.
"I see a out of control mob.no wonder cops get frustrated"
No, merely noting that your statement coincides with how the officer treated a group of teenagers. Since you saw "an out of control mob," it follows that yanking a teenage girl around by the hair is justified, pulling a gun on a couple of unarmed teenage boys is justified. No?
I see an attitude similar to that cop, or are you saying you don't think his actions were justified? Somehow I missed that.
I watched the video. Scared of getting in trouble . I saw. . Makeing martyrs of crooks like grey. Will only breed more people like gray. Arrested 18 plus times poisoning his community with drugs. This is the black youths hero. If our kids think that the police are just out to kill them. Well their wrong. Exceptions are not the rule
Your bio says you're aware of your shortcomings. LMAO!
Sorry, but killing a man while in custody is a crime, unless it is in self-defense. Doesn't matter if the man was a drug pusher, serial killer, or pedophile, although many that are killed in custody or on the street by cops have committed no crime at all. We have laws for a reason. Interesting that you care about enforcing laws for some people and not others.
No one is saying Freddie Gray is a hero. You're using the tired tactic of misrepresenting the opposing viewpoint so you can more easily refute it. Requires less intellectual effort that way?
Im not defending anyone. I think it was his tazer he pulled. Two Other cops stopped him didnt they .if i was on a review board id say that the one cop started to act out of anger. And id recommend he be dicaplined.
Btw. Im for putting bad cops in prison for breaking the law. And if they murder a innocent. Im for putting them to death by lethal injection.
It is in the interest of our government to desensitize the citizen. It will be part of our norms to be beaten by "the"police. It will be inscribed in our unconscious that brutality towards citizens is lawful. The US is progressively slipping in a militarized country. The police doesn't look like the police, it is not as approachable as it used to be. They are dressed like swap teams, they are armed like soldiers, therefore they behave as such in an lawless environment. If the law was ever applied do you think that a cop could ever get away with murder? No! We accepted it and now it's escalating towards our government's agenda. And, what is it? Combat dissidence? Installing dictatorship? In which type of government the police beats up ad eternum its population without consequences? I have to acknowledge that only in dictatorship, whoever doesn't see it, he's a denier.
It seems a certain segment of society is quite accepting of police brutality. They view it as necessary to keep the peace, as long as it is directed against "them."
Indeed, it is starting. It is the same people that allowed the government to take away progressively our freedoms. People who repose on government because they terrorized them with former Al-Qaeda.
Did you know that 500 people were killed this year by the police? Sad US reality...It is truly a sad US reality, Max, even though there is no reliable method of tracking the true number.
Law-enforcement officials agree that many of the deaths could have been avoided. That is not to say that they were all unjustified. Ronald L. Davis, a former police chief now leading the Justice Department’s Office of Community Oriented Policing Services, remarked recently, “We have to get beyond what is legal and start focusing on what is preventable. Most are preventable,” he said . {1}
But focusing on the sheer total number should not obscure the facts that surround each individual event. The Washington Post has started a database to record every fatal police shooting in 2015, a task that also counts every officer killed by gunfire in the line of duty. The Post has been looking exclusively at shootings, not killings by other means, such as stun guns and deaths while in police custody.
The Post’s analysis reveals nearly 400 people were shot and killed by police nationwide during the first five months of this year. At more than two a day, the average is much larger than the figures reported by the federal government over the last ten years. {2}
Four out of five (80%) of the victims were armed with a potentially lethal object when shot, consisting mostly of guns but also including an assortment of knives, machetes, revving vehicles and, on one occasion, a nail gun.
In one out of six deaths, the deceased was unarmed (13%) or carrying a toy (3%). Most notable, the number of unarmed black victims was disproportional to their share of the population in the areas where they lived. About one-quarter of all victims shot by officers were later identified by the police or family members as mentally ill.
This is truly a sad US reality, Max. Each unfortunate killing must be judged according to the specific and unique facts that apply. One solution, one explanation, one remedy is not going to apply to every case. But, this does not mean nothing can be done to improve this sad and unacceptable reality.
{1} http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ … story.html
{2} Ibid
Here is a thought picture for you, what if the situation had been reversed: A rather beefy black police officer was sitting on the back of a 15 year old blond teenager girl in a polka dot bikini. What would all the 'law and order' advocates say then? Would they have said that the girl was sassing and not following instructions? Would the national discussion have been the same, what would have Fox News said? I can't help but to wonder.
Looking at the teacher that was fired, the conservatives speak of free speech, but the jobs and professions we choose limit in themselves what we can say and do. How many Anglos actually feel the way this teacher felt, but would not dare say it? The reality is that there are many like her that are teaching our children but harboring a death wish for them, all the same. All of that thinly disguised with the appropriate rhetoric, which for her was too little and too late, this time. She expressed openly what she felt all along, disdain for black folks and their children. She could have been smart enough to keep her mouth shut recognizing the sensitivity of her position, but no....I think law enforcement trainers need to do a better job at weeding out cadets that have anger control issues. A angry cop is a bad cop.
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