What are your thoughts on Police Brutality? Especially about the recent death of Walter Scott
So, someone finally takes note of the elephant in the room. Inspite of public fatigue regarding this issue, this case is particularly egregious.
I had some problems with the story, the guy was obviously making the video virtually right on top of the crime scene, the officer/shooter was oblivious to this guy all of this time? The guy with the camera was more than willing to have his image splashed upon national tv for someone that said he was afraid of reprisals from the North Charleston PD. Was the black female officer on the scene an accessory to the crime? I did not see her properly attend to the fallen man. Perhaps the influence of the blue line supercedes that of the color line. Too often life puts us in a situation where we can ill afford to bite the hand that feeds us, making all sorts of moral depravity by otherwise decent people possible.
This officer seemed pretty cool calm and collected for someone who discharged his weapon 8 times shooting a man in the back. This is more than an exceptional instance of the many similar cases. The officer's swagger and confidence in committing this crime, speaks volumes. Under the circumstances, the mayor speaks of 'bad choices' and consequences. He has got a 'dirty harry' type running around his city with a badge and a gun.
I have commented before of the very nature of race relations in this country, when we get past the PC and get to hearts and minds. We are going to need to make the videocam standard equipment for law officers as much as their service revolvers.
Interesting, when I read the comments to the articles on this story, there are still a lot of people that want to blame the victim for failing to follow instructions and running implying that the execution was something that he had coming.
Maybe, it is like this, as my spouse told me that contrary to my opinion that rape occured infrequently much like having my wallet stolen, as a student at the University of Colorado, she said that it was much more commonplace and a source of constant fear and concern among women. As a guy, I guess that I would not know nor appreciate that reality from the viewpoint of those that are the victims.
Perhaps, that is why so many Anglos don't 'get it', when AA speak of police brutality and the occupying force, as it is outside their life experience and their perceived reality
I'm interested to see if some people will still somehow make this the victim's fault.
Did he do what he could to prevent it or did his actions fuel the fire so to speak? When you start looking for someone to blame, where do you stop? Credence insinuates another cop was an accomplice because she did not give sufficient (In Credence's eyes) first aid. You can also add in the shooters boss and his trainers. Plus the people that wrote the training book. Plus, some will claim, the gun manufacturer.
Wilderness, I noted some peculiarities as to how this all played out. But, I will make this clear that 95% of the blame belongs to the officer/shooter, shooting a man in the back without provocation, make no mistake about that.
The only place I'll disagree with is the "without provocation". The 95% I fully agree with.
we agree on half of it, the question is does the provocation experienced by the officer justify his response? That is no more justified then my shooting a fellow in the head for cutting in line in front of me. Provocation is not an excuse when you wear the badge and are responsible for using restraint that is commensurate with the circumstances.
You should hear all the inane comments from people that link Mr. Scott's fate to the fact that he was driving a Mercedes while not paying child support. The red necks will do anything to avoid acknowledging the obvious and this attitude help explains why the AA community remains in a state of agitation and distrust of authority. What about the issue of giving false witness, planting evidence and such after the dastardly deed?
Top of my head, no the provocation did not equate with a shooting.
However. We have allowed the US crime rate to go far beyond any reasonable figure, and I put at least part of the blame on allowing criminals to go free. When we decide that running from a cop is to be allowed at will, the results are just what we see; crime in every facet of our lives.
I realize this a giant stretch (what did the cop know, anyway?) but allowing your child to go hungry, homeless, unclothed, etc. - should we then do nothing about it? Just let him run away because he doesn't want to support that child?
In my mind at least, we have crossed the line in what is "reasonable force" too far in this regard; almost nothing justifies deadly force and it is resulting in a crime wave that is hurting us all. IMHO.
But also, IMO, shooting a runner even if he was known to be not paying child support, is out of line. I doubt the cop knew that, though - more likely he knew nothing but that a traffic stop produced an immediate runner. Car thief? Murderer? Bail jumper? I doubt that cop knew anything but (possibly) that he was wanted, and probably not that. Just that he was running, and that is insufficient reason to kill.
"Reasonable force" is a tough question, seems to me, and not one I have a good grasp on.
Mr. Scott should not have run away.
The police officer should not have shot Mr. Scott for running away, and he will face justice.
But the situation appears to be escalating. Mr. Sharpton is heading down there. When he sticks his nose in, truth becomes obfuscated by ‘exaggeration’ and catchy chants. He does not bring peace with him. He brings ‘no peace’. He brings ‘no justice’.
In an ideal world, the ‘know peace’ community would turn their backs on him. Let us hope that all ends well in that community. Let us hope that they recognize that the path to ‘know justice’ is already started, and started without the help of Mr. Sharpton.
FJ, don't tell me you don't like Al?
Yes the situation is resolved with the cop's prosecution. But I still think that if were mayor, I would want a shake down of my police department reviewing procedures and screening for these rogue cops. I certainly would not want these kinds of incidents associated with my town during my watch.
Many of us see Al as driving the media to pay attention to issues that could otherwise find themselves swept under rug.
Yeah Credence, I don't like Al. But the reason I don't like Al is rooted in a core value that one does not have to resort to violence and destruction (or incite others to resort to violence and destruction) in order to resolve an issue. Blowing stuff up and inciting riots teaches violence as a means to an end. According to the core values I live to - that is fundamentally wrong and outright evil.
That said, is what he trying to accomplish a reasonable goal? I would say yes. I agree fully that if I were mayor “I would want a shake down of my police department reviewing procedures and screening for these rogue cops”. But I would say yes with a degree of caution. Rogue and crazy are two different things. One crazy police officer is not necessarily a justification for wanting to redo an entire system. Find out what went wrong, determine if there is something that could have been done, and then go from there. Charging the guy is the first in a long sequence of steps to doing that.
Getting the media to pay attention is a good thing. But his presence is now also widely associated with ‘Where Al goes, trouble follows’. His presence is also associated with willful misrepresentation of events. The best possible thing he could do is stay away, and not bring any more attention to an already well advertised situation.
FJ, I do associate him with political agitiation, not violence or destruction. No one is advocating violence, but in the case of Ferguson we have systemic problems and ignoring them is worse. What was it that the FOP Fraternity of Police for North Charleston said the other day? "We do not need outside agitatiors". Sounds a lot like George Wallace in 1962. Removing a mole on the body without getting to the fundamental cause is just asking for another mole elsewhere to appear.
It is getting difficult to tell the difference between rogue and crazy in regard to cops in black communities as many of these shootings and the municipal culture that gives egregious behavior the wink and nod everyday has to be confronted even if that makes people uncomfortable. However, Sharpton has given praise to the city of North Charleston for the way the aftermath of the shooting was handled. But it is good to have someone on hand to see that this was handled properly rather than swept under the rug which probably would had been the case without the video evidence.
For minorities communities the saying is "Where Al goes the needed attention follows" We don't always feel comfortalbe having the fox guard the chicken coop, without a little motivation and oversight so that all perspectives are presented.
Credence, the praise offered by Al was a welcome surprise, but given the history , well, the Al Sharpton bandwagon is already fully occupied (even if it is empty )
Wilderness summed up the overall national situation the best when he said “And maybe it's mostly because the morality and ethics of both cops AND citizens have fallen drastically. Theft, rape, murder, child abuse - all OK for too many people.” The only thing I would add to that is that the fall might be attributable to a failure to hold people (cops, citizens, and criminals) responsible for their actions.
I could agree with this; when there is no responsibility (and thus no consequences) there is seldom any concern about morals, either.
I know that we are both trying to sort this out. The fact that there is crime is not an excuse, we have always had crime. What about the white collar crime, they are more likely to be rewarded for their theft from the public over being prosecuted. They certainly would not be executed, so this "everyman" argument does not hold well with me. Restraining a running suspect that poses no danger based on his escape and executing same man are two different things.
It is a giant stretch, we do not know the circumstances as to why this person had problems with his child support. But, he is not the only one, what about the thousands of men that get away with it, without being shot in the back?
I expect these people to be more professional and keep their biases, emotions and indignation away from their job, or at that very moment they cease to 'serve and protect'. Brcause the cop did not know the whole story, he should have been smart enough to let due discretion be his guide, and not go off, guns blazing. So now he has ruined his life for good. He has only himself to blame, unfortunately, the victim did not get a chance to reconsider his
I will have to support giving law officers less discretion in these kinds of encounters, prescribing specific procedures to be followed with their being held accountable if they deviate from them without justification (which is also prescribed)
Can't disagree with anything you say...but still hate that I have to lock my home and car if I'm not in them. And hire a security company to boot. And stay out of parks at night. And pay extra to cover shoplifting. And buy identity insurance. And watch like a hawk where my kids go online. And, and, and.
And I still feel that a part of the problem is because we LET the criminals get away far too often - sometimes simply because they can run faster than a doughnut laden cop.
And maybe it's mostly because the morality and ethics of both cops AND citizens have fallen drastically. Theft, rape, murder, child abuse - all OK for too many people.
You know, Wildernes, it is a lot like the high speed auto chases that have been banned in many cities because of the danger poses to typical motorists and passersby. How long do you think that the person being pursued can remain at large? This cop fired a weapon 8 times, did he think about the danger of his rounds hitting innocent bystanders before he starts shooting? These bad guys get caught eventually under conditions that are lawful and pose less danger to others.
"Without provocation," will be the sticking point in this one. The police officer used excessive force - probably. There was a fight, the "victim" may have used the officer's own tazer on him. By the time the "victim" was shot he had committed several felonies. This is will prove to be, yet another, case where rushing to judgement will pay off for Al Sharpton, but not the truth. We have yet to hear the whole story.
We do KNOW!! that there was no "hands up don't shoot" in the last high profile lie fest and subsequent rioting. Let's hope the lies are kept to a minimum in this case.
And there we have it, a representative of the ever shrinking but very vocal "surely he deserved it" crowd.
What, in your mind, could possibly have occurred to have justified 8 shots to the back of a man running away from a police officer? What? I'm dying to know.
I don't speculate. I wonder if you were part of the rush to judgement in Ferguson, where the ever growing and completely mistaken "gentle giant, hands up don't shoot" crowd got it 100% WRONG!!! and then burned down the property of the innocent. GOOD CALL!
You don't speculate?
"The police officer used excessive force - probably. There was a fight, the "victim" may have used the officer's own tazer on him. By the time the "victim" was shot he had committed several felonies. This is will prove to be, yet another, case where rushing to judgement will pay off for Al Sharpton, but not the truth."
Lots of speculation there. But, I am still wondering what truth could possibly be found that would justify 8 shots to the back of a man who is running away? Please speculate. Tell me what would justify that--legally, morally, or whatever justification you can find.
If this plays out, as I suspect, the officer will have used an inappropriate level of force on a criminal. Neither the officer, nor the man shot, will be innocent - unlike the officer in the Mike Brown shooting.
Why are you using quotes around the word victim? Michael Slager committed homicide, and Walter Scott was the victim of that homicide. Whether it constitutes murder remains to be seen, but there is no question that Walter Scott was a victim, just as there is no question that Michael Slager is currently a murder suspect.
And I'd also like to know what you think could have happened that justifies 8 shots in the back of Walter Scott while he was running away?
Because, like The shooting in Ferguson and the one in Sanford, all the evidence is NOT in and NO ONE knows exactly what happened - thus quotes. I am sure many said Mike Brown-hands up don't shoot-shot six times, once in the top of the head-execution by cop- RUSHING to judgement and getting it 100% wrong - like OBAMA/SHARPTON/HOLDER et al....
The story isn't complete.
Three relevant definitions of the word victim from three different dictionaries for you:
"A person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency".
"A person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action".
"A person who has been attacked, injured, robbed, or killed by someone else".
How does Walter Scott not meet the definition of a victim? What information do you think is required before we can safely describe Scott as a victim, rather than a "victim".
And Michael Slager is not a police officer. He is a former police officer, and currently a murder suspect awaiting trial.
Ouch. The cops at it again...
He knew he was wrong. He knew he was not justified. Thus, first cuffing the dead guy, then walking over to get his lil taser, and dropping it by the victim.
What was going through his mind while shooting??? Only a guess must suffice. He probably won't tell that part.
Sad part is... many of them feel that way.
Thank God for video... that was a nice lil set-up at the end. As we're finding out... he probably would have walked easily, after his "he scared me" speech.
I have not personally had many run ins with the police and I am a white male. I was on the brink of getting a beating by a couple of Hawaiian cops back in the 70's but a white cop happened to drop by in the knick of time to reason out the predicament. I have learned coupled with my white skin that I just listen to the guy with the gun very intently and deal with whatever I did. It does not matter if I am right or wrong. Whatever it is my running or fighting with the policeman will never benefit me.
Having said that I have watched the clip of Walter Scott and what the policeman did was inexcusable. In hindsight even if Scott had managed to escape who was hurt? The policeman's feelings? Maybe the policeman did not know what Scott was running away from, but his lack of knowledge of Scotts decision to run warrants taking his life? Then the cover-up story of his life being threatened is the icing on the cake. I am sure both had great loving families and that we shall hear the wonderful things they did and were to them but both are now inextricably harmed because of bad decisions.
Your thoughts are good! I feel that since you are a white man, there isn't much to be concerned about in confrontation with police. They are not seemingly that interested in belittling you. Even black cops would watch their step with you these days, it's hard to find and keep a job. And for some reason, I feel that they would ensure, especially with your kind, that, "strictly by the book" is the only way to go; though a black man would afford him a bit more leniency at the station.
I hate that things are this way.
I am a black woman (that's me, in the top left corner ) and I have not had as much run-in with the cops myself. I come from a family where police are "authority" figures and my momma always said, "If a grown-up tells you to do something, anything short of bad touching, do it, and tell me later if you feel you were wronged." I would not run from a cop. But I must think that the experience of black men and police are much different. Being a 50+ year old, he probably had a much different experience with police. (Beatings, belittling, possible shootings, maybe even silver-platter crack) It forces me to feel like black men have a different sort of fear of police, in many U.S. states. I mean I am a girl and though I haven't been in any trouble, I received their BS charges on my one incident with them. So I know, that they do...
I really loved your question:Who would have been hurt? The officer's feelings??? And the answer to that, judging from this tape and others, is simply yes...
Did you see that the officer didn't even TRY to catch him?????????????? Just opened fire, and set up the scene... like he has experience doing so... or, often seen it done.
I hope he sings like a canary in an effort to not go down alone. Because I'm sure, he's not.
You are correct that I have no idea what it is like to face a police officer with a black face in this country in this day and age. I would imagine it gets old being pulled over while minding your business but it is a reality in this country. I have witnessed many situations driving past a traffic stop and seen a black face in the car being detained and wondered what they did that I am not doing. I speed just about as much as anyone else I guess but more than not I still see a black face in that car. Maybe the stereotypical reasons give the police cause to ticket these people because statistically they will not have the funds to fight the ticket or better yet get them for some other warrant such as child support to make an arrest. I don't know and probably never will as I don't wear a black face.
don't feel bad... I'll loan you mine... Lol
Those raggedy cops are at it again, rhamson...
You are correct about the way they reason on financial status that they can get at least one more, due to ineligibility to pay the "fines" which often feels like a "black tax" running tab-like.
Thanks for understanding... Your support is not unnoticed. I wanna bake you a cake! but I don't know how. Lol...
But my heart says yes. ♡
NOW THIS COP [Not ] , needs to be fully prosecuted ! Unprovoked shooting , except running from him? . Where's all the body cams ? There is however a huge diff between this shooting and Michael Brown's ! , The tragedy is in that crime stat's are out of control ,all human nature is becoming far more selfishly motivated in recent years .
The usual crime inclined perps ,, the gestapo wanna bee's for cop's , We got to sort this crap out soon or I see a revolution in the streets coming .. Recently I was given a warning from a cop who asked me " Where are you headed today ", Twice ! . I kinda got into it with him about why he asked that . ...He chilled , I chilled too .?
Good AH, it obvious that you can see when things get out of hand.
He chilled??? AFTER you had the gall to say something??? Hmmmm... must not have had any extra lsd packets lying around. Or his hand was still hurting from his last traffic stop. Yes, I'm exaggerating. But not a lot.
The police are supposed to arrest people, not shoot them, unless required to save the life of another. It doesn't matter if the person they are arresting is a murder suspect, a deadbeat dad, or a jaywalker. If a suspect is running away and is not threatening the life of the police officer or of another citizen, then it is against the law for the officer to shoot him or her.
It is incredible to me the lengths some people will go to defend cowardly cops. It is a cop's job to arrest suspects, so that they can be constitutionally tried in our justice system. It is not a cop's job to beat up or kill a suspect without provocation. Sorry, running away is not provocation. Neither is mouthing off or hesitating to jump when barked at. Police work for the citizens, not the other way around.
Yes, Pretty Panther, this is one hot mess. As to your comments, my sentiments exactly... North Charleston certainly ain't Mayberry.
The news article I read said the cop was already indicted and would be tried. Was that not true?
Thankfully, it is true. I wonder if it would be true had the encounter not been video recorded by a bystander?
Almost certainly not as fast. Maybe not at all; from the little I see the cop tried to cover his tracks and hide what happened and might have been successful without the video.
I live in a lily white small town, and it ain't Mayberry, either. I have instructed my kids to turn on the video recorder whenever they encounter cops, whether personally or tangentially, and I do the same. I cannot imagine what is must be like for people of color or of a certain socioeconomic level.
You can probably multiply your experience by a factor of XXX. There are so many factors of fear, racism, distrust that bring out the worse on both sides. The fellow with the camera was lucky he wasn't shot as an accessory and conviently made to disappear as a 'loose end'. But, I probably watch too many cop shows on TV.
Clearly, police brutality is at an all-time high. I don't think there's a week that goes by without talking about another victim of thugs with badges! Not only is it African-Americans but whites and other ethnicities as well. When we were younger the policemen would come to our class and call themselves "Officer Friendly" Well, those days are long gone and it seems that the "boys in blue" just want to beat you black and blue.
Actually, I doubt it, but it HAS become more newsworthy that it ever was. It has hit the public spotlight big time and, like anything else, that changes our perception of how often it happens.
The cop seems to have kept the lie part all for himself on this one.
This time, we get to see the lie play out on tape. How fortunate.
I still think that Michael Brown was a victim too... too much of that incident was not captured on video. The holes were filled in by police and "credible" witnesses. The jury in that case did what is being done today on Hubpages. No tape...... no problem...
In this case, we get to see how it's done... the officer followed the "usual" procedures in cases like this. But whoa... the tape was rolling... oops...
Not even the shiniest badge on the force, can recall his way out of this one.
We're still waiting to see what his consequences will be... I'm sure it wont measure up. But one step further from absolutely NOTHING being done.
Apparently the Department of Justice agrees with the Jury and not with you.
I know you mean luckily...
But not this time...
Evidence is evidence. Delusion is delusion.
Too bad we need video nowadays to show which is which...
You and I both know that if there was no tape, most of us would be yelling, "But that man tried to take his taser!!!!!!!! It was laying RIGHT BY HIS HEAD!!!" But not me..
I believe that this time the evidence is damning for North Charleston police officer. Would you consider the possibility that many of these tragedies unfold as CG suggests, but because they were not filmed evidence was omitted. Because of the tenancious nature of institutional and structural racism and the determination of those that practice it to have events interpreted so that plausible deniability is always part of the outcome formula, we need video cams and Sharpton. I think that these things happen more often rather than less as that the perps circle the wagons and the victims usually have no recourse or allies to challenge the 'official line'. With a world of ubiquitous video camera, placing everyones action on an indisputable and permanent record , we could just have the remedy to these shootings and the endless explanations and excuses that always seem to work against the AA community.
So do you like the camera idea, more for the citizens and the police? Now we can discuss fact verses delusion. Dr. ML King once said that Bull Connor and the brutes in his Alabama PD during the Civil Rights Era were made to heel due to the glaring eye of the television camera. Now we have this new medium which is the 21st century equivalent.
yes, always a standard scripted answer, so what was the object that the officer threw down next to dead man's body? The camera will make it difficult to fabricate a "story" this time.
And a standard, scripted evidence shuffle... I remember Ferguson's little production... and now this "different" cop.
And WHY did I see the Tulsa, Oklahoma bombing from 1921 today??? My heart is beating fast. I gotta go do some breathing or something. I'm not hot-headed... my smileys are real... this ish is getting ri-damn-diculous...
"Why don't they just DO something for themselves....???" "Why are they so criminal???"
Black people have been the targets of city AND State AND Governmental terrorism since this country began... and they're being blamed.
It's odd to me...
CG, you might be interested in an article found in slate.com entitled " Ignorance of the Law, a recent supreme court ruling allows the kind of traffic stop that led to Walter Scott's death" It tells an important story as to how we all got from there to here, with a most disappointing SC ruling, giving law enforcement far too much latitude and discretion. What about the mess in Tulsa?
I did read the article before my last post. It was bittersweet. The guy who wrote the article looked white to me.
But I came back to say:
Ok, we can stop a person for a broken light (the person behind you may not be able to see only 2 lights ) but how far do we probe during that stop?????? Do we now have to search your car because "I just think that you look like someone who needs to be checked (black male)???"
I honestly believe that many people here feel that this man, and all the other dead men who died like this, are justifiably dead because they ran... it's a hard thing to fairly say aloud... because the law does not state that police officers should shoot runners...
Imagine a day in America when all ethnicities , every individual of economic division , every criminally intended slime-ball will have to account for their own actions , individually !
What ever happened to personal accountability ?
Personal accountability is a funny thing. Sometimes, people are really not responsible for what happens TO them. But thank God we can rest easy that the bad guy will answer this time. I really hope it happens more.
Hey!!! With those new body cameras installed, we can see ALL that mischief that keeps getting those black men into so many encounters with police.
I think we may even see a decrease in crime everywhere... just because of police cams...
Let's check the stats on crime in America one year after camera installations...
We might really gain a clearer picture on criminal activity, and of whom...
Credence2... I have been stopped for having an incense tree on my rearview mirror. As well, a single plate light was not working.
I think I felt harrassed. Luckily, all my legal documents were in order. He wo. ldn't have searched my car, this time... I know better now. The last time I was ia car that was searched, I ended up with a charge that was not, my personal responsibility. But that of the nasty cop who told me, "You NEED to get an AIDS test!" during the ride on the way to the station. (Thank God I made it to the station.) That kind of evil is capable of much more chaos.
I was stunned to silence. And I don't stun easily. I never thought someone i never met before, could be so nasty, especially wearing a badge. I had heard that police had done this type of crap and more. But I did NOT believe it... This stuff did not just start. My incident was almost 15 years ago.. I
Baltimore cop speaks out against police brutality and, himself, becomes a target... suing.
I smell a wave forming...
I believe that if we put camera's on ALL cop's we're going to see a great silencing of the liberal media's generalized war against cops and authority ! I believe we would see just how horrific the attitudes that perpetrators of most crimes really do have ! The average American doesn't nor can they begin to understand anything about how some perp's act outside of an average traffic stop . Even in small town America , the police are so used to dealing with the same criminals and crimes that they soon begin to look at Everyone like they're about to rob a convenience store or sell crack on the street corner . Sad but true !
And yet so many of the forum dwellers here seem to enjoy associating ANY cop with the four or five that beat Rodney King up ! In truth 99 out of a hundred are sincerely "there for you " ,By the way , No -I am not a cop , nor am I related !
All you gotta do is turn on Cops. Every time I watch, I see a white man cussing and resisting treated with kid gloves and smiles and patience. Black dudes lick the floor after a flinch. Not all...
And yet you never hear about the opposite, black on white crime in the news. It's not newsworthy I guess. And it's more prevailant than white on black crimes. You can look up the stats yourself.
Why do you think that's the case?
We're talking about police officers.
The pick just posted was SOOOOO controversially stereotypical and misses Eminem's bunch... and the Arian bunch. And the hockey championship bunch...
Somehow I feel better...
Do you have actual stats? Is there any evidence for your assumptions?
Your assumptions that there are more white cops commiting crimes against black people (than the other way around. That is your assumption, isn't it?
No stats then?
Here's a hint. I already did your work for you.
You think there are more black cops harassing white people?????
I'm asking how you know. What I think is irrelevant. Did you research the issue?
I know that cops pick on blacks more because I'm black... got black uncles, black cousins, black pastors, black friends. I talk to black people often. And I hear their repeated, almost verbatim, police stories.
How bout you???
So you're not going to do the research?
You hear stories, you probably watch tv. Please research the subject before you make assumptions.
Assumption??? I have the "horse" with me on a daily basis, for many years. And as much as I stay out of police view, I have my OWN story... research??? Been "researching" for years. A book may only tell me what THEY think... I know... I would look silly asking books when I have experience being black...
Not one book is going to tell my story but mine.
Sounds like a horrible request. You read what they say about blacks. I'll keep talking to them... thanks tho
So you know all the crime data on blacks AND whites? (and Hispanics and Asians, for that matter?) I don't think you're looking at the big picture.
Your view is myopic.
And remember, I have no agenda, as I am none of the above.
People are people. They ALL have things. There are more white people in the US. The numbers should be more even than they are. If you put white people in squalor and tell them they are unemployable as these few blacks who are wreaking havoc on the statisticians are, you would get the same numbers for whites. Especially if you add black cops "approaching" them because they look suspicious every so often and slamming their heads against concrete and talking to them like they're nothing. White people don't even allow cops in their faces like that. They know how to make the cop f-off when they SAY f-off..m
They realize that police work for citizens. And the police remember that when dealing with whites.
Now, let's look up those white people crime numbers... do you know how much money is stolen in America on average from dudes in offices??? Prob not, nobody's shakn down Wall Street. Calln them Boy, telling them to shut up...
"White people don't even allow cops in their faces like that. They know how to make the cop f-off when they SAY f-off..m"
I doubt that very much. You are just making things up now.
It doesn't matter what I think. I'm sure there's a "chart" somewhere.
I don't see the point in basing my beliefs on anecdotes. I actually prefer to know what's really going on in the world. Go figure.
Only certain numbers though...
What's really going on, comes from the people who experience it. Not people who look at bogus police files.
And you haven't experienced the situation from the white or Hispanic or Asian etc. perspective, so you have no idea DO you.
Absolutely not. This conversation is about brutality of cops against blacks.
You wanna tell me some white/Hispanic stories?
"Meanwhile, the case of Dillon Taylor, a white 20-year-old shot and killed by a black policeman outside a 7-Eleven in Utah has received virtually no media coverage beyond local news reports. His brother, who was with him at the 7-Eleven, says Taylor was unarmed"
Are you outraged by that?
http://theweek.com/speedreads/447379/wh … ce-officer
It's the some thing.
I gotta find out if I'm outraged...
This white man gets shot by a black cop. I wish I could put money on whether or not this was one of those white guys who "know their rights!!! And acted like it...
Was he stealing?
Did he resist?
Did he reach for the officers gun?
Was he carrying drugs?
Did he lunge at the cop?
Was the cop scared.
Cuz you know that all these things matter when some thug who an upstanding cop shot, is discussed.
So showing what happened night after night week after week, and I am not even showing the businesses burnt to the ground, the elderly man on Oxygen carjacked and left lying on the street with a near empty O2 bottle, the gun fire and the looting. But that picture is 'stereotypical' huh? Gotcha.
I guess this didn't happen either and is just stereotyping too, right? I worked the LA riots and I know what happens, I had several friends who are still active LEO's in Missouri who were there, the pictures don't tell half the story.
The one riot has lots of pictures, I'm sure...
The one posted, is stereotypical. But it was, in their opinions, time to act stone loco... it's not representative of usual behavior.
I would assert that it is, for this group, and is becoming more so. The LA riots were in 1992, so it seems that the go-to response for the black community not getting their way, evidence be damned, is to riot, assault and loot. And three decades on this has not changed. I was a police officer in LA when the riots occurred in 1992 and I can tell you that the official death toll is not even close to the truth.
But to the subject matter at hand, body cameras are not going to be the boon the black community seems to think they will be, in fact I think they are going to show a truth that they will wish had not been brought to light. It's the law of unintended consequences.
And, of course, there will be the constant claims of "photo-shopping" (never mind that PS is not used for video manipulation) or selective editing, and motions to keep video from being introduced as evidence, and somehow, someway, they will attempt to say that video is 'racist' and 'prejudicial'. Or unfairly discriminates against black criminals.
I can even envision a lawyer attempting to ban the use of video cams by police in the future because it has a "Disparate impact" on black defendants.
Mark my words, someday a PD is going to be accused of racism because they got body cams only in order to convict black people. That will be the claim of the race baiters.
Unfortunately, you are speaking with one who knows a bit about how police officers get down in black poor neighborhoods.
It's a tale I've told too often.
Body cams will show a decrease in crime among this population.
When black dudes are standing around (their right to do so) they scatter when police come... not reach for guns... more often than not, the officers pick one or two to shake-down (to the ground) cameras will keep this foolish crap from happening. And the jail-count will suffer...
It is they who think that black people are mostly criminal, who will be surprised.
Cameras all around!!!
If you believe this, you are in for a very rude awakening, I can assure you of that. Do you wan to know who is the most suspicious of blacks in crime ridden, gang infested neighborhoods? Black cops. And why do they run? Because they either have warrants, drugs, guns, or all three, they know it and they know we know it.
Personally I say let the 'Hood have what they want, let them be police free, no more patrols, no more enforcement, and see how long it takes for them to start screaming that they want the police back.
I hope you will remember that the two NYPD cops ambushed and killed by a black person in the name of revenge for 'racist cops' and 'social justice' were Hispanic and Asian. I guess they were racist too huh?
You lot act as if the only type of cop that exists is a white male. I have worked with male, female, white black, Hispanic, Asian, Samoan and even one that was an Inuit Eskimo for Christs sake.
Uuuuuhhhhh... I LIVE with these people. (I hope not "the lot" you are referring to).
I could breakdown ANY cop/black people relations for you, but you already know...
Why would they have to run??? Why the hell are cops approaching??? Most run because word on the streets is, "Cops are goons" and nobody wants their hassle.
When they approached me... I didn't run, nor cuss, nor spit, nor was I doing anything. DWB...
Wish I had done all those things. That cop hauled me in with an apparatus he and his buddies found in the alley. Neither my life nor my outlook will ever be the same.
I had heard that they did stuff like that to my homies... but I never believed it. Then it happened to me... so now I KNOW what they did to others...
I'm the educated one of the bunch. And I got papers to prove it.
No one is exempt from their set-ups...
Up to your old tricks again, eh, Superkev? We know the stats but where is the justification of shooting an unarmed man in the back, regardless of the statistics? Are you saying that black high crime rates gives justification to "Dirty Harry" type police work whenever they are involved? Because of your blanket stereotype, I suppose that you believe that in a confrontation between any black resident an police that the police are always justified in using whatever force they deem appropriate?
Just this morning when I was on my to get a cup of coffee, I witnessed about 10 young negro thugs beating the hell out of an elderly white wino.
I regretted that I was not packin' my Roscoe, because I would've shot some of their a$$es in their backs.
Who needs police???
Seems violence runs deep for you... I understand why you feel the way you do about blacks.
I do not have a problem with the vast majority of "my people."
It is just that I do like all the ones who are out there getting in the way of black progress by doing such things as gang-bangin', irresponsibly impregnating girls and women, assaulting and raping elderly black women, killing little black children during their drive-by shootings, and roaming around in the streets looking dangerous and ugly.
Wow, that is a huge straw man you have there!
Tell you what, instead of putting words in my mouth that you wish I had said to support your bias, why don't you find something I actually have said that would support your accusations?
And then, could you explain to all of us why this black police officer who shot an unarmed white teen (And I mean really unarmed as he was stark naked) was justified, how it was not racist and why since it almost exactly parallels the Mike Brown shooting, there was no rioting or calls for racial, social or other "justice" by Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and others? Can you explain why almost no one, myself included, had even heard of this until now?
Was he justified? The kid never touched him, unlike Mike Brown. So tell me, tell all of us, what is your opinion on this? Should this black officer be arrested and charged with murder and civil right violations? If not, why not? And if so, why should he? Thanks!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 … /?page=all
Somebody say naked white boy running around???
That will NEVER happen in the hood...
You must not have been around during the "angel dust" epidemic in '80s.
While high on "dust," many of the homeys in the 'hoods stripped off all their clothes and ran around in streets, and some even climbed up trees and power poles -- while they were buck naked.
Every time I saw one of those wasted dudes, wild apes and monkeys came to mind.
I don't know what's happenin' in Chi where you live, but here in New York City, a whole lot of young home boys and home girls are gettin' high on "angel dust," and goin' crazy while they're under the influence. I see them nearly every day.
I was pretty much at the epicenter of that whole era. Saw some very bad stuff because of those 'Super Cools'. The things they would do when high on that junk boggled the mind.
Devil's Advocate question to all, IF the police did get a body camera, would they (the police) be honest? What do you think it will show?
I can tell you that it's not going to turn out for the thugs they way they think it is. If you want to talk about honesty, why don't you talk about all the people who, when confronted with VIDEO evidence, of Mike Brown committing a strong arm robbery, insisted that the video had been "photo-shopped"? Or still insisted that, despite the scientific forensic evidence, and three autopsies, one by the Obama/Holder DOJ, that Mike Brown had his hands up and was shot in the back?
There is a certain class of Dindu Nuffins that will never, ever admit that anyone but the police officer is to blame even in the face of incontrovertible proof to the contrary...it just does not fit their narrative or world view.
You will see more things like this photo than you will ever see police misconduct, so I say bring the cameras on.
Oh and please remember that we have a cop in jail for murder for doing what has been done a million times over... but THIS TIME on tape...
Yep, and no one is claiming that video was faked now are they?
As for the rest, heard it all before, all the same BullSh*t, and in 18 years on the job I never once saw a person set up in any way or did I ever see a person in jail who didn't swear they were innocent.
Why do they run? Because they don't want to go to jail, that's why.
Why are cops approaching? Really? That's what cops do, we are allowed to ask people standing on a corner in an area known for drug sales what they are doing, and maybe we just observed them selling drugs, drug dealers hang out on corners, and, wait for it........sell drugs.
Someone is selling drugs, doing drive-by shootings and all the rest in the black communities, who might that be do you think?
Always the same crap, didndu nuffins, well let me tell you something, someone is doing a whole lot, and it isn't white people sneaking in to the ghetto selling drugs, tagging the place up and shooting people. If your neighborhoods are frakked up, it's YOU who are doing the frakking, no one else, yet you throw the blame on anyone and everyone except the real guilty parties.
It's time the black community started taking ownership of it's shyte.
I wonder did you have the same reaction just a few months ago when a black Salt Lake City police officer shot an unarmed white kid who was walking away from him? Guess what, there were no riots, no looting and no burning of businesses to the ground. Barely made a ripple on the national news.
While Ferguson acted like a mob of petulant children who were refused a chocolate bar. So please, spare me your self-righteous claptrap will you?
I see we view the shyt from differing perspectives. Lol... how could we not???
Americans did not listen when the hood was yelling, "Them cops are f'n with us and setting us up!!!" Now, we FINALLY have the "alleged" impossibility on tape.
I don't need a tape for MY PERSONAL incident, I know... that gives my boldness wings. I've seen the shyt with MY own eyeballs. And I'm STILL appalled. I was really nice to my attackers... I was raised by GOOD blacks now they have a scar that has yet to be discovered. But they paid. I'm sure my God ensured it.
So... selling drugs and drive-bys are NOT black people things EXCLISIVELY white people carry more drugs OFFICIALLY... erbody's got a dog in that fight. But we only stop and frisk certain ones.
Not every black boy who stands on the corner is selling drugs. Cops have NO BUSINESS approaching citizens standing unless there's a problem. But when there's a problem, them suckas DISAPPEAR isn't THAT something??? Seems to lend credence to the though that the precinct is hoping they eat themselves up...
White America doesn't let that happen to their numbskulls... They understand THAT deviance and cover up...
I think America should do that for MY babies too...
Nothing alleged about it, but it's ONE bad shoot, as opposed to how many over just say this last weekend, in LA, in Newton Division, where it is a black gang banger shooting another black gang banger, or missing and hitting a 5 year old, or, maybe, just going up to some random black kid who wants nothing to do with gangs and killing him for NOT being in a gang? Seen all that and more, yet you still want to point to cops as being the problem, yeah, ok.
So you just left it huh, didn't report it to IA, a federal agency, the media, nothing huh? Funny how with all these stories they all have one thing in common, the victim claims they never reported it, to anyone, very convenient if you ask me, especially in this litigious age when a nice payout is just an accusation away.
Do you have anything that backs up your made up little factoids? White people carry more drugs huh? More drugs than who? And where do they carry them? And I will stop an obvious MS-13 banger just as quick a I will an AB member. They are all dirtbags in my eyes, and I am an equal opportunity kind of guy.
No, not every black kid is selling drugs, and that is a fact, but if they are standing for hours on the same street corner, in a known area where drug sales are being made, then yes, we have every right to come up and ask them what they are up to, you have no expectation of privacy on a public street. And if they are known gang members or are flashing gang signs and wearing gang colors, you better believe I am going to find out what they are up to. Rather give them a kick in the arse now, than have to see another dead baby in a bassinet from one of their stray or mistaken bullets.
Ever seen what a chopper does to an 8 month old baby? I have. And it was all because someone claimed the wrong set.
But please, keep pointing and yelling "Squirrel!!", whatever it takes to keep you and the black community as a whole from having to take an honest look at themselves and admit what the real problem is, we can't have that now can we? Something might actually get fixed then, and then what would young black men do for fun?
I live near Chicago. Kids get shot by police often here. I know I've heard of it too much.
They finally opened a class action suit for all the police brutality. They're speaking of the UNCONSTITUTIONAL stop n frisk policy because it's getting out of hand.
Yes, black dudes will shoot yo face off and not think twice... but white people do that too...
The differences are that we don't stop them and ask them what they're doing often.
Have you read any of the expectations studies?
That would explain your black cop... he's been bashed around too though. Must be great to do the bashing.
White people kill their own spouses... sometimes with poison that takes a long time.
Stalk any fed-up housewives??? Any broke white dudes praying for a payday, night after night..??? Any sick-of-my-MOM-telling-me-what-to-do!!! teens??? Any I cant take it anymore!!! new mothers???
We ALL got crap... I won't point out yours... if you don't point out mine;)
Yet none of that is confined to whites now is it? The facts, and this is according to the FBI/DOJ statistics, is that blacks are ~14% of the population yet are responsible for ~72% of all violent crimes. That dear lady, is a problem. If you come to a doctor complaining about a pain in your foot, he doesn't run tests on your heart.
There is no ethnicity that will ever be devoid of a criminal element, but the AB isn't going and doing drive-by shootings on a regular basis. Nickerson Gardens does not have a majority white population, nor does any high-crime housing project I am aware of.
All of the top ten most crime ridden cities in America have one thing in common, they are either a majority black or have a very large black population, Detroit being #1 on the list.
Feel free to check the statistics on this graphic, the source is clearly listed. You cannot fix a problem if you are unwilling to be honest about what the problem is. So don't play victim to a circumstance you created.
And I bet that these numbers do not account for recidivism. (if accurate at all)
So... we've got 35 murders this week in a poor black neighborhood, johnny is responsible for 22 alone... and two or three mobs handle the other 13. This would paint a different picture, Yes??? So call me when you get THOSE numbers together.
Then compare to others.
I bet you'll be surprised.
Because the list you think is not confined is LARGELY confined.
Strangely, I cannot pick up any statistics on people who kill their children. They list the occurrence just fine. But I have not been able to find out the racial identity of those killers. Anyone know??? I think a man who kills his own family will kill yours much faster. I'll search the racial profiles on children who kill their own parents in the meantime. But I'm not expecting to see it for some reason.
You can keep trying to parse and deflect all you want, the numbers are from the Obama/Holder DOJ, not me.
Did you read today about the girl who was convicted of shooting in to a McDonald's because they forgot the bacon on her cheeseburger? I'll let you guess what ethnic background she comes from.
And I'm pretty sure Johnny isn't out popping 22 people in a week, another nice try at deflection but again, weak and not supported by facts in evidence.
You are a perfect example of what I have been saying.
You seem to be a perfect example of what I'm saying too!!! we twins
My point is, we fk with the numbers to paint the picture we like. America likes her bluebloods. She will not speak against them. So, she deflects, and parses. Lol...
Did you Google the 10 most prominent mommy killers today??? They all have one thing in common... guess what...
Really? The Obama/Holder Department of Justice is going skewer the numbers to make blacks look bad?
As far as the "mommy killers" let's see your numbers, I will bet lots of money it happens significantly less frequently than black on black murders in any given metropolitan city.
Basically your argument is the same one liberals have been making for six years every time one of Obama's policies turns to crap "What about Bush!!!!!????"
You have zero arguments to counter what I am saying as I am backed by gov't statistics which prove it, so you scream "What about XXX?" Well, what about X? You have some actual, DOJ numbers which would give any factual foundation to what you are claiming? Or are you once again testifying to facts not in evidence?
I heard yesterday, that white-on-white crime is horrendous too...
But we are not shining any spotlights in THAT direction. People are people. Blacks are not worse than whites. Some PEOPLE are worse than other PEOPLE. But that's as far as we may slice the pie.
The American government does not belong to Obama... He has American parameters...
We've known for a long time what they are...
And more and more (thank God for my cellphone camera) we see with our own eyes... no more "parsing deflections" like He scared me (while I was harassing him on the streets)!!!
So the answer is no, you have zero facts or evidence to back up your claims. That's what I thought.
Obama and Holder certainly do control the USDOJ, and they decide what happens there and could certainly refuse to release or otherwise suppress evidence and statistics they do not want seen, just look at Holder's refusing to co-operate with congressional subpoena's, and Obama claiming executive privilege in relation to the same.
I don't know where you got your understanding of the US gov't and how it is run but I can tell you that everything you claim to believe is dead wrong.
I guess the Obama administration is way more concerned about the statistics of black-on-black murder, than all the other people killers. Cuz I can't find them... I know it happens.
Seems to be not AS important...
As today, we discuss black on black murder... what about white-on-white? Not sparkly enough??? I know. The numbers are just as bad and seem to double-dip somewhere because if white on white murder is 88% how the heck can black on white be any higher than 12% not counting all other races who get mad at white people...??? Maybe I just don't understand the WAY they figure their numbers either. Seems kinda difficult. I'm sure there's purpose for that.
Why are you surprised that there are more white on white murders than black on black? The white population is like five times higher. The PERCENTAGE of black violent crimes is totally disproportionate to the number of blacks. THAT"S what people are noticing. It's really not that hard to understand the number. The WHY is much harder to understand.
We're trying to say that those numbers are representative of black people being MORE murderous. There are many more white people but their people don't on average go back and forth to jail for their crimes all their lives. Recidivism rates show that not ALL blacks but THE SAME blacks...
However, when I kill my mom. I don't got no more mothers. Much purer statistic... but we don't know it...
I doubt that. A criminal is a criminal. I've seen plenty of whites repeatedly go back to jail. My sister's ex boyfriend is one. The cops even know him by name. Is there a disproportionate number of blacks? Do you have real stats on that?
You must doubt it. Remember when I was telling you about how we look for evidence to back up what we already believe???
I always look at the evidence form all sides. If you look at my other threads, you will see that. For example, you can take a look at my interactions with Headlyvonnoggin. I provided evidence from both side of his argument (several times) to show the fairness of my stance. I even found him evidence he hadn't seen before that bolstered his point of view. I don't cherry pick. Not intentionally, anyway.
That's one of the reasons I put my ideas on the forums, I know people like wilderness and slarty will come along and point out the inconsistencies, so I can rework my theories and ideas.
There is no crime in standing on a street corner, unless, of course, you are black...
What is this, some sort of Gestapo tactic? You better have probable cause or reasonable suspicion that a crime has or is going to be committed before you accost me about anything. I can stand on any street corner I like. Sound like that "stop and frisk" nonsense in New York, rightwingers are just fascists at heart!
And poor Trayvon was just walking through... "looking suspicious."
This world is sad... some cops (and that dude wasn't even a cop) are prowlers.
I'm sure, after listening to you, that you were one of the good ones. Probably rose up the ranks swiftly.
And I appreciate your protection of my people from my people, (wait... protecting the surrounding property from the damage of my people) in Watts. I do know that my people can be scary when one is alone, and aint no strangin rope around. They were born strong and muscular, that's all we think they're good for...
Want the stats on black people killed by police in Chicago in the last 3 years including women and children??? Probably not so important. But it shines a light on how viscous ALL police officers are...
Now, time for the little "percentages" trick... cuz blacks make up uhh how many percents again??? Let's ask the mathematicians here who figure that...
It's shows that more whites are killed by police.
But they kill blacks more than 50% as often!!! Do blacks account for half the American pop??? We know how to do the trick when we wanna paint a prettier picture to our eyes.
Most stats say that white people do more of everything to everyone but we gotta take into consideration what the percentages of blacks are THEN.
BASED!!! See it now???
Actually, blacks are anywhere from 2 to 8 times more likely to get killed by police. I already looked it up a couple days ago. But I was waiting for YOU to do the research yourself before I said anything. I can give you the link if you want.
I just want people to do the research before jumping to conclusions.
Now we have to look at the REASONS for what is going on.
No, it's because the police are where the crime is happening.
All the time... poor white kids being killed; raped; and stolen from have nobody to protect them... all the cops are where the "crime" is...
I don't really know what you're getting at.
Do you think it's a bad idea to have more cops in a crime-ridden area?
Statistics do support the fact that blacks are pulled over percentage wise at greater frequency for investigative stops. The are not traffic violations where there is no or a negligible difference in stops. I am speaking about the kinds of stops that are not responses to violations but so that officers that are otherwise suspicious of the driver can investigate further. It is the basis of racial profiling, See Supreme court decision US vs Rodriguez.
Ok. Show me the stats. One court case isn't a statistic.
I think you are the one not seeing it.
Non-Hispanic whites are 63% of the US population, that is 197.7 MILLION people out of a population of 313.9 MILLION Americans.
Blacks are 12.4% of the US population (According to the most recent numbers I can find) or approx. 37.6 million people.
Non-Hispanic whites are an order of magnitude more numerous than blacks, yet blacks still commit ~72% of all violent crimes in America and are killed by police just a bit more than 50% as often as NHW.
There are 160 million more NHW in American than Blacks. There's your percentage. Honestly, you really should just drop this conversation, you are far, far out of your depth on this one.
Great!!! So you know the percentages of blacks in America. Them cops are REALLY f'd-up aren't they???
It's the cops fault, and not the criminals' fault?
Alls I know for sure is, it was the cops FAULT when I was the "criminal" I'm sure it happened just like that for others too.
Cops are people. They make mistakes. They can also be criminals too.
It doesn't make people less guilty for their crimes, just because some cops suck.
EVERY police officer I've ever met has been VERY nice to me. I'm sorry you had a problem with one, but they are not always like that. Mine have always helped me out, and been very professional. Even caring when I was going through bad times.
"The Color of Crime"
The report The Color of Crime (2005, second expanded edition) by the New Century Foundation states that while the official crime statistics show large racial differences in the United States, there are several problems which tend to cause underestimation of the racial differences. One example being "Whites" sometimes including Hispanics. Another is not adjusting for that the different racial groups differ in population size. The report reviews the more accurate statistics that is available and describes many large differences in crime rates between races. The report also examines the research on possible bias against racial minorities in the justice system and the police and concludes that bias not a significant explanation for the different racial crime rates.
It major findings were stated as:
-Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
-When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
-Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the White rate.
-The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is Black and Hispanic.
-Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving Blacks and Whites,
-Blacks commit 85 percent and Whites commit 15 percent.
-Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are Black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When Whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are Black.
-Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a White than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
-Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.
-Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
-Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
-Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
-Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than Whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.
its vile, its wrong, and we knew it would come, we know that we can lash back but our society is like jenga move one block and it may or may not fall. They know we are strong but put a weak person in authority and that happens.
Damn!!! I'm no math-head but it sure seems like police are REALLY killing blacks at MUCH higher percentages. Anyone got that number??? take your time...
Uhhh... I'm still waiting on feedback about cops being filthy Americans...
Since they aren't, as a group, I don't think you will get that feed back here.
Sure!!! This panel LOVES wide brushes... I can tell
Come on!!! Let's paint some more!!! It's getting fun...
Cops are killing my people at MUCH larger rates than they kill others...
Cops are killing my people at MUCH larger rates than they kill others...>> yes, and there are obvious correlations as to why. I'm sure if you looked at the individual cases, there were reasons for the killings
Have you looked into it? Probably not.
ODBs...>> no idea what that means
There's "reason" for ALL killings... unless you count serial killers who just kill people. But those aren't really blacks either.
I don't care WHY... it doesn't matter WHY it SEEMS that blacks commit more crime to anyone here... I know black people personally...
They're just as good, if not better in some cases, than my white friends.
Who's gonna write THAT down???
"There's "reason" for ALL killings... unless you count serial killers who just kill people. But those aren't really blacks either". >> Yeah, they're more often white, and sociopaths
"I don't care WHY... it doesn't matter WHY it SEEMS that blacks commit more crime to anyone here"...>> of course it matters why. You can't solve a problem if you don't know why it's happening. And I've already told you what the root of the problem is, you just ignore everything I say on the matter. Because you think blacks can do no wrong, and you think it's not their fault
You mran white with a "good excuse"???
You have no idea, the root of the problem... how could you...?
You ignore everything I say... we're twins!!!
Because I study the stats.
Of course, to you,. the fact that 70-90 % of black families don't have a father in the picture. That can't have anything to do with the crime rates, can it? The fact that 50% don't graduate has nothing to do with anything, does it? It's a culture and behavior issue that is easily solved.
Fathers are important. Do you know what they do with all the black fathers here, since they started our country???
What do they do specifically? And who is "they" specifically?
I'm not speaking to you on this one, you have your charts for reference. lol...
Which means you know you are simply talking out your arse again and just typing words that have no meaning hoping no one will notice.
Kryptonite to a person like you consists of two words "prove it".
Throughout this discussion I have asked you to support your factual assertions with proof, you have not once done so. If you think you are going to be a writer someday you better learn how to source and document your claims. Because I have news for you, "Because I said so", doesn't cut it.
Your entire argument boils down to "This one time, in band camp..."
I think it's more of a matter of what fathers do with themselves, in todays world. Don't you agree? Where are they? They certainly aren't taking care of their kids, and keeping them in school like a father should be doing.
Please don't give the excuse that the reason is because they were at one time slaves, a hundred and fifty years ago. Because that's just ridiculous.
They get thrown out of elementary school for shooting spit-balls and they hang on the streets waiting for the police to approach and cart them to jail... or shoot them on the way... look it up!!!
Again, you completely ignore the point I bring up. Where are the fathers?
I'm still waiting to hear what "they" do to black fathers and am completely intrigued to find out who "they" are.
At this point she's just being a typical liberal troll, she's got nuthin', and can't make a cogent argument to prop up her baseless and ridiculous assertions. She's just typing words that mean nothing because everything she has said has either been disproved or she deflects when asked to provide any factual basis for what she is saying.
Good luck on that writing career LOL
No, black daddies are not "largely dead or in jail."
The vast majority of them are busy doing such things as impregnating two or three females at a time, escaping paying child-support payments by hiding out on the streets and in homeless shelters, hangin' out with their homeys, and doing what dudes do when they're on the down-low.
White people leave their kids too. Watch Maury??? Not all the fools are black.
But how many black men are in jail?
How many are dead???
Now how many of them are in the "other" category?
Wow, girl, you base your world view on what you see on "Maury?"
And I repeat: Black daddies are not largely in jail or dead. Most of them are merely missing in action.
Okay, let's count.
According to the US Census Bureau, in 2013, 67% of black households with children were headed by single parents, and only 25% of white households with children headed by single parents.
Noooo!!! We're looking for jail stats and dead stats.
We lookin for black fathers.
We don't have to worry so much about jail as the reason white daddies are gone tho.
"Somebody say naked white boy running around???
That will NEVER happen in the hood..."
Wow, lot of compassion there. Sounds a lot like the guy was probably mentally ill. Or on drugs.
I will say it one more time: The majority of missing black baby-daddies are not in jail or dead. They are either hiding out, out gallivanting around with a whole lotta 'hos, or too busy being on the down-low.
We must use the statistics bible...
White daddies are gone too...
Why are you so concerned about what is going on among the people that you obviously regard as the bosses?
Let's see the statistics. But of course you won't provide any real statistics.
You're starting to get it now!
YES, white people leave their kids too. There are MORE white criminals, because MORE white fathers are absent. Get it now? It's the same thing with blacks.
You are NOW saying, what I've been saying all along... welcome!!!
Say it with me... ALL people got stanky sh*t rotting in the fridge...
Of course ALL people have bad apples in their group. Blacks just have a higher percentage.
That was a totally false and inflammatory statement...
But I hear you guys like kool-aid too...
Completely true statement. I have the stats. Why should the truth be inflammatory? You see a problem that needs to be fixed, I see a completely different problem.
The statistics show the same thing for whites that they show for blacks. You have poor, fatherless home, you get crime. Just shows that the percentage of poor blacks is higher. Not inferior. There's a big difference. That's how I see it any way. It could easily be the other way around. Whites are quickly becoming poorer and poorer.
It also has to do with less church influence, in both blacks and whites. I read an article today about it. I think if we get people back in church, we could cut the crime rates. I never thought so before, but I guess religion really does have some beneficial effects on communities.
I tried to delete this post.
Yeah. Poor people are more criminal. Not black people are more criminal.
More poor people are black you say???
Prob not... not enough black people here, and a lot of them are rich.
For many years now, nobody has done anything to "black fathers." "Black fathers" have been their own worst enemies.
And sort of in that same vein, many, if not most, of today's black children do not even have fathers. In many cases, their daddies are either players who simply walked away after "making them," they are behind bars for breaking the law, or they do not even know they are fathers -- and could not care less.
Well, no wonder you think you're horrible...
My dad was home. I was about the only one. But of ALL the kids on my old block, two are dead from gun violence. Says something of the strength of an at home mom. Oh, my blockers were aid recipients... lol...
How in the hell could I think I'm "horrible." I'm a REAL good-lookin', hip dude.
You black and y'all be shootin' up the place!!! AND done left yo kids. Cute don't matter. And "hip" is "thuggish" too!!!
Check it out, I am a sophisticated, urbane black man who shaves and showers every day, and my personal grooming and daily attire is impeccable.
I am not, and I never have been, some field negro who looks like, thinks like, and behaves like a slave.
As a matter of fact, most of the young homeys in my neighborhood have nothing but the highest respect for me. And every chance I get, I reach one and teach one.
You're damn straight I'm a house negro. And so far as that goes, I come from a very long line of house negroes.
Anyone can tell by the way I write that I am a polished house negro and not a crude field negro.
Yep... that's what I said...
They have ALWAYS been "better" in their eyes... then, the massa agreed. You're returning the favor, from my view.
However, most of the world's black population missed slavery altogether. America has the bulk I think...
So we have field negros, house negros and the uppity...
I think I come from that last bunch.
I have no one to thank but God. And HE made me equal to all...
When it comes to violent crime in the US, the number of blacks murdered by white law-enforcement officers is infinitesimal. In fact, if the only blacks who got murdered each year were the ones murdered by white lawmen, hardly any blacks would be the victims of homicide.
I must say that all of the blacks who are out there crying and complaining about police brutality are both fools and hypocrites.
They are fools because, evidently, they are not even aware of such things as the large number of black women and girls who are being forcibly raped by black men and boys, and the thousands of blacks, including the elderly and children, who are being snuffed out by vicious, ugly-a$$ black thugs.
And they are hypocrites because they are pointing accusing fingers at white lawmen for committing crimes that blacks are committing scores of times over.
Oh... you believe that too...
No problem for me. You are who they cross the street to pass... I hate that you're such a (statistically) horrifying individual and that you deserve all the stank crap you ger from those thugs who are (statically) just like you.
I'm not buying it for me and MY people.
My blacks are the most upstanding citizens America has...
And I LOVE them dearly.
Yes, there are some doozies, but I swear I know many more Good black ghetto dwellers than I do bad ones...
I guess it's just how I was raised.
Wait... some of us remember a time when blacks were murdered in large numbers for being black... I guess all those murderers died, taking their filthiness with them...
I wish they would've taught my people how to do that before they left...
Cgenaea, the way you bluster is breathtaking.
Anyway, because I was born and raised in a "ghetto" a very long time ago, I was well aware that the vast majority of the residents of such communities are good, law-abiding people long before you were even born -- and maybe even before your parents were born.
Furthermore, I despise black thugs, and the reason why I do is they are bringing nothing but pain, harm, heartache and suffering to a great many of "MY people."
I aint said nothin about no blockbuster!!!
The black "thugs" are causing harm as well as the white "thugs".
More (and I mean many more) black people are good than bad. I'm not going to let a chart tell me otherwise. I know what I know what I know...
Im 42... so you grew up wit my grandma. But she NEVER put down blacks...
Now her own 4... different story... but we ALL (and I mean ALL) do that too.
"More (and I mean many more) black people are good than bad"
True. No one disputes that.
If you are 42, I am not old enough to be your grandpa. Your pappy, yeah, but not your grandpappy.
And my parents and grandparents shot down various other black people all the time -- and that was because they were deeply concerned about the progress and wellbeing of black society, and had a strong desire for "our people" to be all they can be.
More black on black crime... please let them now that thats just your family. That's where all that crime is coming from!!! (Sarcasm )
My people shot no one.
My people's people were good folk too!
I've met so many good thugs... I mean murderous in NO way...
For the sake of accuracy, it's not murder, an on-duty killing is still considered a homicide, but lacking any criminal actions and in the furtherance of your duties, it is a Justifiable Homicide, not murder. Just FYI.
And too, there are more than just white cops, not every on-duty shooting resulting in a death is involving only a white cop for Christs sake.
But yet, time after time in this thread you fail to support your claims with any factual evidence.
You don't even attempt to debunk my numbers and statistics because you know you cannot and that the source is the Obama/Holder Department of Justice, to do so you would have to call your Messiah a racist. Which you would if the president was white, but Obama is half white, so maybe you can blame his white genes??
And since you cannot dispute my evidence, you resort to snark, well your snark does not change the truth. I have said all through this thread that the biggest problem that the black community faces in all this is that they simply will not be honest about what the problem is.
You have shown that in stark relief.
You're getting tickly. Lol...
88% of white murder is committed by white men (I said that, but you just brushed right pass it huh??? Lol...
I don't have to refute your numbers with numbers. I have much more valuable information... EXPERIENCE..
Been black a long time...
The hoodlums were the same few in every neighborhood. I've lived in A LOT of Chicago neighborhoods...
You people (not even the black people) will NEVER convince me that those dear, sweet people are the worst individuals in the nation... it's simply not possible.
Now police officers, did you have many many black people in your hoods disturbing the peace??? Or was it the same few you had to arrest over and over and over??? Remember... we have recidivism rates handy dandy...
And yet your "upstanding citizens" all join in when there's a riot and looting to be had.
But Google riots of white people. From my understanding. There's usually no real cause whatsoever.
I wasn't insinuating white people don't riot. They usually do it after sports games. Lot's of testosterone flying around I suppose. No excuse for that either, however.
But you jumped quick to excuse first... did you notice that???
No, I don't know what you're talking about . There is never a good excuse for rioting, not in this country. I can see it being excusable in another country where real freedoms are being violated.
And, no I didn't jump to an EXUSE, just a reason. Which is even sillier than the anger reason you give for Ferguson riots. Anger and "boys will be boys" are NOT excuses for riots.
Your gleeful rioters are the real issue... blacks wait until something outrageously egregious happens. They are not prone to "just because" rioting. Sorry... my people act a fool in these situations.
It's their last resort... it's all they got... they always wait until the verdict. lol...
The primary reason why a number of contemporary blacks riot is they think and behave in same "unliberated" ways that their enslaved forebears were brainwashed to think and behave.
Except the gleeful rioters don't burn down entire cities, and riot for weeks and months at a time.
Ahh, I see, you anecdotal evidence in your tiny little bubble trumps nationwide statistics and documented evidence, gotcha.
No one is saying all black people are bad, one of my very best friends in the world is a 78 year old black woman who is my neighbor, I have dinner with her once a week, sometimes she cooks, sometimes I cook (Although the better meals are the ones she makes) But the thing about her is she is honest about the issues in the black community and she will call a thug a thug. She makes no excuses for how many young blacks act today. We have discussed this many times.
There are always some in any local that are frequent flyers, but by no means was it always the very same 10 or 20 people, not even close. So instead of using that word over and over again in an attempt to sound like you know what you are talking about, why don't you show some factual evidence to support your claims? Just because YOU say it, does not make it so, or did no one ever teach you that?
Experience is the best teacher... did no one ever tell you that???
Your black friend has been disillusioned. Older blacks are much quicker to agree with the big house... they know better than us all, that agreement earns rewards...
Your black friend is one of many who are drinking the kool-aid... none for me, thanks.
Good Lord was that not the most predictable response ever? LOL
Just go ahead and Call her an Uncle Tom, or the female equivalent, I know you want to.
This woman has been all over the world (USAF) and has experienced many things in her life, including the very real racism of 1950's South Carolina. Yet according to you, she is too stupid to see and and think for herself. Only person drinking the kool-aide is you, because you think someone should think, and probably vote, a certain way based solely on their skin color. How did you become such a racist?
How many black friends do you have??? How many of them come to the black-bash dinners???
I have many black friends, in fact my neighborhood is predominantly black, both of my neighbors on either side are black, and the three nearest across the street are all black families. I know them all, and visit with them often.
Do you have anything of any value to add or are just going to continue with more meaningless drivel at this point?
Could that explain why the "racists" insist that black folks voted for Obama because he was black? No a lot of credit given there for independence and experience.
Cops are not "filthy Americans," however, homicidal black thugs are.
Those are "people" problems. No one race is exempt.
Nobody but nobody is gonna tell me that black people are worse... no no nooo...
If a person is accused of murder, and he gets off on the insanity plea; is it still counted statistically as murder???
It is not only counted as a murder statistically -- it is also counted as a murder legally (murder by reason of insanity), and it is also counted as a murder morally.
And besides, an individual who gets killed by some nut who doesn't know what he's doing is just as dead as a person who gets killed by someone who has all of his faculties.
Well, Sir, I see you've stripped yourself naked too.
We wave off and disregard stupid people. All of us do. Lol...
I'm not smart. Common sense works well if you do not read the "papers" first, become jaded...
I appreciate your refrain from incomprehensible drivel. ...wait!!!
One day... I will sit down with this chart and find the discrepancy.
We didn't want to do percentages on the killer cops... but ok.
There aren't enough stats. I'll find the page again which shows a rough estimate.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 … -race-data
The chart stated that there are more white people killed. However, when you look at the percentages it shows black people killed at much higher rates. Right???
One major glaring problem, is they aren't being systematically reported in a meaningful way.
May be quite significant. But we rely on these numbers that highlight what we want it to highlight. And shield, ever so slightly what we want it to shield.
I'm standing on my position. Black people are NOT more criminal. I just know too many of them. And I got my own percentages based from experience with these very people.
Well, there's a place for you to start at least. Now you can advocate for transparency in reporting of police shooting/crimes.
Not my fight... transparency can only get so transparent. Ratwheel race... we have to start jailing the real criminals... it's a shame how much criminal activity our leaders become involved in. Goes unpunished and unsurveilled after much damage. Regular audits... jail for thieves of government funds in office and stiff fines and penalties including jail. It is amazing how the country hides who it wants. And pays under the table betrayal of the trust of the people and misuse of their funds should create a black scar that no lawyers can erase. And immediate dismissal from the country. Treason!
But I'm just genaea...
Sure, great ideas. But that will do nothing for what you want to see happen. In fact, it has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The good will trickle down. Good political actions create good laws and good justice for all.
In other words janesix, she is going to make up her own facts and percentages to suit her preferred narrative.
She's a troll, her entire argument is, and has been for pages now of this thread, simply "Oh yeah? Says you". She says nothing meaningful, does not back up any of her assertions with anything other than what she makes up in her own mind and then just posts nonsensical gibberish to get you, or I, or feenix to reply.
I could also make up my own percentages based on my experience with Muslims, and they would be just as accurate as hers, that is to say, not at all. Let it go or she will just keep trolling and responding with nonsense that makes sense, apparently, only to her. She doesn't want the truth, she only wants you to agree with her.
I just want her to see reason. I tried to get her to do the research on her own, but she won't do it. But when I find research that fit's her agenda, she's all over it.
What are 5 reasons why you like or dislike Al Sharpton?
Recommend you make this question into a totally separate question here on HubPages. It will spark both rants and good discussion.
I was thinking about doing that. It's good to see you share my thoughts.
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