Lets talk about the dangerous language the left is speaking ?
- ahorsebackposted 7 years ago
0"Time to destroy Trump and company ",......."The most dangerous leader ever elected "..........."lets get him ", Kathy Griffin , is but one source of a voice speaking louder and louder of a language that is dangerous , a language that is already inciting violence in the streets , even creating a trend of violence against cops , two days ago a Bernie Sanders volunteer shot four people at a charity baseball game for republican only senators , after identifying them as such ! This guys Face -Book account show this extreme in hatred too
Its time to hold , for one , the mainstream media accountable for inciting hatred , Hollywood celebrities for the same , human decency cannot be just a part of the opposing ideology .
I blame the incredible callousness of a mainstream news media moved beyond bias hate and right into a world of violence . One where inciting " free speech " has very quickly become the inciting of hate speech . If i were to put an add in the paper that said " Destroy Trump " I'd be arrested .
The intentional Inciting of violence , Isn't this a media moving intentionally out of the parameters of free speech and in sedition or treasonous behavior ?Since when is negative commentary about Trump now considered sedition and treason? He is subject to same scrutiny as any man or woman holding the office. If this is all a campaign to just have the Left 'shut up', that is not going anywhere. Any heavy handed tactics from Trump and his goons to stifle free speech and free press will be flashed around the world at the speed of light. A flood of criticism will then come that he could not handle, being the narcissist that he is.
Yea right , Now lets talk inciting hate and violence speech . Wanna go there ?
For you people, just saying things like "Trump is a jerk" is considered inciting hate and violence.
You are not allowed to actively incite to riot or yell 'fire' in a crowded theatre. But if you are hiding behind your mothers skirts with excuses that we are all obligated not to attack Trump within the legal parameters provided, then you have another thing coming...... because more of it is coming, you can count on it.He is the Mohammed of the far right wing radical. You can't insult the prophet.
What I'm talking about and you KNOW that , Is the Kathy Griffins holding a bloody Trump head ,imagine what political influence that has in the middle east alone , Bernie Sanders , ....."Most dangerous president ever elected blah blah " and Sen.Sanders is supposedly an intelligent man ?........Not exactly your "Trump is a jerk is it ?. It is the hateful rhetoric ranting away to impressionable minds that will create more incidents and already has led to one shooting . All the violent street protests are already the lefts to own There is , and you know there is , a major difference between the lefts violence and what conservatives have ever done. Say nothing about the ivory towers censuring conservative speakers . and the media provoking , promoting the BS of leftists only , I notice with all liberals there is no concern whatsoever with a media spewing one side only , what about your own children , want them to know one side or all sides ? I know I'd rather mine knew both sides .
The left is totally responsible for all the violence so far.The Griffith incident was in bad taste, we all have acknowledge this and she was fired from her job on account of it, so why beat a dead horse?
Bernie Sanders have a right to his opinion, just like the goal of MIT h McConnell where he stated that Obama was to be a one term president. I don't care how any insult on Trump plays in the Middle East. I am after him for what he is doing right here and now. And that will continue without letup.
Re familiarize yourself with the constitution, saying what I want about the Rightwing ring leader is part of what free-speech is about.
I can't nor can the Democratic Party be held responsible for ravings of one old white male lunatic. Bernie, in his heroic fashion, made clear that he condemned this man's actions. I could blame the Giffords shooting on the lock and load mentality attitude of the GOP? But that is different because that assault was coming from the rabid Right? Am I correct?
I am opposed to any stifling of free speech regardless of its source. At the university, I would simply show my disapproval for right wing megaphones, by simply not attending. Let these people speak to no one but the relatively few members of the Hitler Youth on campus that support them. Sparse audiences will encourage such not to return. There is no need for concerned progressives to disrupt speakers.
Oh by the way, on the study yes, is there liberal bias? I guess so, if Fox News is the yardstick by which you measure this. Even the conservative publication, Wall Street Journal, finds more negative about Trump than otherwise. It appears that most recent presidents have received more than their share of bad press. it is just that Trump gets more because his policies, style and behavior merits it. Why is every other journalistic outlet biased? Perhaps, Fox News is biased and the other 99 percent is relatively fair and balanced?
Odd that even FOx had just slightly higher percent of negative stories about Trump than otherwise. If the fawning Fox can't do better, what do you think that the responsible journalist outfits would do?I've listened to such BS. since I was a high school a kid in the sixties , Always the "free speech " line , always for the cause . But always as well to rip order to shreds , all order , any order at all not mattering whatsoever how good it is , The mindless , directionless chaos and intended anarchy was just as full of hypocrisy then as yours is now , that is the only truth that comes out of such liberal entitlement rhetoric . Too bad people like yourselves can't all be in legislature , you could give yourselves raises , more bennies . more junket trips to the islands .
Your reasoning reminds me of your leaders ; Pelosi , Boxer , Feinstein , Sharpton , Reid , Sanders , Warren , Jackson , Obama , Clinton , every single one of them will justify the violence , the inciting of bloodletting ,the cop killings , the president's symbolic beheading , and all the violent riots but the fact is that free speech is the last thing you are willing to listen to if it opposes your own voices , then it quickly becomes "hate speech , bigotry , bias and then its spoken by nazi's , rednecks ,country hicks , ", the only constitutional rights you're kind are interested in are entitlement rights and they had damned well better be free entitlements at that .
This country has never in it's history seen such mindless , directionless unsustainable socialism stuffed down it's throat by the left and this media as has been shown in the last eight years , Sad part is , your movement lost all momentum in this incredibly leaderless DNC election loss that you and your bought and paid for media still cannot stomach. And that's all your ideology has got and all that you are .
You lost the election , pretty simple , now get over yourselves !How about it if you just climb down from your high horse, Ahorseback?
There were civil rights movements, sit ins etc, where change to society was just and necessary unless, you were in line with George Wallace and company, were you? Blaming junkets and such on democrats is a cheap shot as there are Plenty of Republicans involved in the practice. If I were in the legislature, I would provide firm and steady opposition to any and all rightwingers, aka. (Republicans).
What is this nonsense about entitlement, don't you get social security or are you just grazing the grass?
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"Your reasoning reminds me of your leaders ; Pelosi , Boxer , Feinstein , Sharpton , Reid , Sanders , Warren , Jackson , Obama , Clinton , every single one of them will justify the violence , the inciting of bloodletting ,the cop killings , the president's symbolic beheading , and all the violent riots but the fact is that free speech is the last thing you are willing to listen to if it opposes your own voices , then it quickly becomes "hate speech , bigotry , bias and then its spoken by nazi's , rednecks ,country hicks , ", the only constitutional rights you're kind are interested in are entitlement rights and they had damned well better be free entitlements at that ."
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Delusional BS???
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This country has never in it's history seen such mindless , directionless unsustainable socialism stuffed down it's throat by the left and this media as has been shown in the last eight years , Sad part is , your movement lost all momentum in this incredibly leaderless DNC election loss that you and your bought and paid for media still cannot stomach. And that's all your ideology has got and all that you are .
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This country has never seen the rise of such an obviously disqualified person in both experience and temperament soil the Presidency when considering the great men of the past. Donald J. Trump.
We may have lost a skirmish, but the struggle will continue.....Except , "your struggle "is of a mindless economic , social and individual incompetence seeking only vast amounts of personally accepted government entitlements ..............I'll bet you just love the thought of Utopian bennies now that you have tasted your precious government retirement . The problem you have is that you associate George Wallace with all of the ideology of the right , perhaps you on the left should actually read a history book instead of placing them on your pretty book cases.
Green with envy, it appears, why do you keep bringing this up? You get social security, don't you. You certainly don't reflect the sort that would be independently wealthy. I was mandated to save 7 percent of my income for this retirement for over 33 years, how dare you say that it is an entitlement..... It is MINE and you can eat your heart out!!!
I have read the books and that is why I know that your folks and their advocates are basically 'no good'.i am one of those "hayseeds "you labeled , I was self employed for decades , I actually earned mine myself.....all by myself. I didn't jump on the gravy train of some government union and coast my way to double , triple dipping .
Probably self -employed because you don't work well with others.
- Callous, cynical and disrespectful of others
- Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated
- Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
- Lack of empathy for others
-That is you calling the kettle black ?
Every element you describe is today's Alt-left . I am but one voice of a silent majority that usually remains quite silent , If Only You Could Silence Us All . Yes?That was an uncalled for personal attack. You should attempt to stay on topic and not focus on the individual.
So, all of these people receiving social security, military and federal pensions are just mooching from the Government, while you and Trump are pillars of American individualism and exceptionalism?
Now THATS bullshyte!!
You've had your own 'gravy train' somewhere and you just are not telling....If your were really interested , I could tell you about my gravy train upbringing , but it wouldn't fit your narrative whatsoever . in fact , it definitely wouldn't fit even any democratic definition of today's poverty , I will save you that embarrassment however suffice to say it was well below your poverty lines .
Are you telling me that you're not a double or triple dipping retiree SS income , a military pension , maybe another government employee pension ? That's the excess' I'm talking about .Credence2, I hope you don't mind if I jump in with a question for ahorseback.
If you earn a pension from a career, why is it unethical to accept it?
Are military veteran retirees unethical for accepting Social Security, and, their military pension for a career that may have included putting their life at risk protecting your freedoms? Are they part of the "excess" you are talking about?
GANot at all, GA, I wished that I would have asked him that question...
You make it sound like all or nothing is the way it happens , There you are Wrong .
I recently lost a friend at 74 years , a Viet vet , 28 years retired Navy Intel. Lt. , + 10 year career U.S Marshalls , + S.S. benificiary , + Disability VA. pension in the last ten or so years , I won't even go into his physical problems I feel were somewhat self induced .I liked and respected him and his service but do you believe he deserved --4-- Government Checks and still be working as a real estate salesman ? This may be the unusual case however , it happens more than we realize , double , triple dipping .
Now , check out how many senators , congressman do that ?
There is a broken side to government entitlements and until that is checked , It will continue to be a problem and an incredible draw on the system .yes, there is hyperbole and gross examples of excessive largesse in these programs, but to make it appear to be the rule rather than the exception is a distortion of the issue in itself.
correct, a single anecdotal story is not the normal, and who died and made horseback the ruler and decider of who is the deserving and non deserving? Guy sounds cruel and ... something else I can't say without being blocked
correct, a single anecdotal story is not the normal, and who died and made horseback the ruler and decider of who is the deserving and non deserving? Guy sounds cruel and ... something else I can't say without being blocked
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I would not go so far to say cruel, it is just that conservatives believe that when the Government gives anybody anything that it is an unjustifiable entitlement. Nobody truly earns anything outside of people like Trump and the Koch Brothers. All the rest: moochers.
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Horseback is homeless and is on this forum via the library or wifi at McDonalds ... living in a puka in front of a free wifi restaurant picking up dimes and nickels (just kidding)
Sorry Horseback, just want to dig into you.
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Ahorseback and I represent the extremes on opposite ideological poles. It is natural for us to butt heads, but it encourages and invites all from in-between to join in the debate in an attempt to moderate either one of us.No, conservatives, (as so labeled), do not believe that. Some conservatives may, but that does not make your statement correct. Focus, it does wonders for clarity.
GACredence has trouble focusing , as the vast majority of liberals do especially on the pride of personal accountability .Where I come from the people are first working class , blue collar or as I like to say dirty collar , that includes generally liberals and conservatives . There is nothing more telling than the working class environment to discern those who earn their own financial success from those outside of that belief that learn that they can take it from others . I say that's the way I was raised because EVEN HERE where i was raised , the new norm is how can I get on the system ?
It's not like "getting on the system " is wrong , for legitimate reasons there are many who earn that right by sacrifice in military service , physical or mental disability HOWEVER . those promoting the redistribution of wealth by taxation for MORE entitlement are simply thieves . No matter how political the "wealth demonizing" of this issue , it is simple taxation thievery .
I'm sure glad Credence or anyone differentiates themselves from my ideology , In my mind Socialism would be a few steps up from the wealth redistribution wishes of american leftist cry babies.I can see you put a lot into that comment ahroseback, but I was merely reminding Credence2 about the dangers of over-broad stereotypes. Something that appears to be a relevant message for others in this thread also.
GAOn the contrary, I focus to crystal clarity
How do we get from fair compensation to workers in the form of pensions for their work to taking things from others? There has been complaints about the tax code and I confess that I am not always qualified to debate the fine points. We have a progressive taxation system, how much more should the wealthy have to pay in such a system? I am not qualified to answer. But, I have observed this: 1. Fat cats Never have to pay, really, because they have the ability to offshore their wealth. They ultimately pay what they want, or do what Trump does and not reveal what he does pay. 2. The wealthy run the government, both parties, and ultimately set things up to their advantage. Which more likely than not means that they are going to figure a way to pay even less or nothing, why not? Both parties have member of this class, it is just the Republicans that promote this attitude, propping up the wealthy at the expense of all the rest, all of the time
It is only the most stone age of conservatives that have problems with the concept of a progressive taxation program. Where in industrialized society is it otherwise? I cant share your myopic view of things, the most of the people I see work at least a couple of jobs, while what benefits they have had are disappearing. It is just as dire as Will Apse has said. And it is ESPECIALLY true in America.
Conservatism as identified in this society and culture today (Trump) has nothing to redeem it and there can never be any common ground. It is a large part alt-right as determined by your 'fearless leader'.
I am glad too, that I have nothing to do with the Right or any of its ideas.
I don't need to focus just be blindfolded and be able to hit the broad side of a barn. It certainly is not the progressive left that is behind any of the suggestion regarding the withholding to those justly due. So, what is left? Conservatives. I did not say all, but they are still just conservatives, are they not?
That's fine but you know as well as I , There has to be accountability in all entitlements spending , And to deny the huge amounts of abuses in any and all of them is simply immature , selfish and or naive. Unlike apparently liberals , I am capable of looking at whole pictures not just the emotional sides .
I was in a VA hospital wed. and saw plenty of waste , better spent on the veterans bennies and not on VA EMPLOYEE bennies .
You government and mine spends too much !
My husband served three tours in Vietnam. He was shot, stabbed, and left for dead. He saw his best friend's head impaled on a pole. He killed people, face to face. He was once under guard by a U.S. marine, in a tiny room in a tiny outpost, waiting to be shot if they were overrun, because they could not allow him to be captured.. He survived the botched Iran hostage rescue with a broken leg and months of interrogations from his own government. And you dare to question the compensation he receives for all that? Typical self-centered conservative who claims to be a patriot but resents the miniscule benefits received by those who risked their lives and their sanity for all of us.
These are real people you are talking about. No, it is not double dipping. It is compensation for their service and they deserve every penny.This takes us into a different tack, I had recently read a Military.com article where the VA is going to scrap the idea of cutting benefits for disabled veterans. The was initially proposed by the Trump Administration as a budget savings. What the Vets were to receive in return was greater access to medical facilities outside of the VA. It was in fact just a plan by conservatives to attempt to eliminate the VA, the only organization there specifically to serve those who bore the battle. The GOP does not really care about Vets, it is just their smoke and mirrors to have everybody believe that they do.
This is a total lie ," ....The GOP doesn't care about the VA. ........." Its been well known for decades that conservatives are better protectors if veterans ,always have been . While other entitlement programs take away from veterans , Planned Parenthood for one . There are hundreds of programs to cut that would far more increase veterans care . Take one look at the federal tax dollar grants coming back into your states and where that money goes ,
Federal Grants worth chopping ;
Liberal arts , downtown revitalization [architecture ], drug centers , clean needle programs , rent subsidization's, waterfront revitalization's , one grant constantly coming to my state is for clean water studies on one large lake that never goes to clean up these waters , university grants .etc.......The conservatives are better protectors of defense contractors and acquisition of more military hardware. The idea that they care for the common soldier upon their return is a myth. How about cutting outrageous tax cuts for the wealthy and excess military procurement instead of attacking Meals on Wheel or Disabled Vet benefits as Trump planned to do.
Wow , you really bought into all the liberal media BS didn't you , But hey , you always do .
For your information , neither party is favored by vets or does as much for them in general , Obama didn't do as much for vets as he did for welfare recipients , unemployed and unemployables , You don't think Democrats treat those corporations and worse ? No .
Both parties suck for vets - always have ! Don't climb a high horse thinking Hilary would have done more either ! I can tell you many stories about vets and VA center problems, They are my family too.Here is the question credence posed: "How about cutting outrageous tax cuts for the wealthy and excess military procurement instead of attacking Meals on Wheel or Disabled Vet benefits as Trump planned to do."
Would you agree?Problem is the Credence operates under the assumption that anything the "rich" (as defined by the liberal party) has built, accumulated or owns is actually owned by liberals. That any tax cut given that obnoxious and cruel group of people is actually taking money from it's rightful owners.
In truth any tax cut given the rich is not taking anything...rather it is allowing people to actually own and decide the disposition of what they have legitimately earned (we're not talking proceeds from illegal operations here). It belongs to the rich, not to anyone else, liberal, poor or any other label.
Who could ever agree to such a philosophy...except a liberal that truly believes they have a right to anything they decide they want? A liberal that believes that "might makes right" and has the "might" to take as they please?Wealth creation is a group affair. Even if you write a great and overwhelmingly appealing novel, all on your own, you will not get rich unless you have a well developed publishing/dissemination system, and an audience who can afford to pay.
In other words, you will only get rich in an advanced society where millions of people cooperate to create the conditions to produce wealth, from roads to schools to factories to media etc
Who gets what in terms of reward, can be down to naked power relationships or it can be negotiated.
Right now we are moving from negotiated rewards to rewards based purely on power. Which is why the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.Sorry, but in the US wealth division is 100% negotiated. There is no gun held to an employees head to get them to accept the specific job OR terms, just as there is (usually) none held to an employer. Pretending that people are forced to accept specific jobs or wages is just that - pretense, not truth.
Negotiated in what sense. And who is involved in the negotiation?
Right now the the wealthy have most of the cards. And soon they will have all of the cards.
The shift in power from labor to capital has been accelerating since the Reagan era. Investors reap increasing rewards with lower and lower taxes to pay. Significant amounts of that money go into political activity to ensure even an greater concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few.
I am not making sweeping assertions without evidence here. Thomas Piketty's work 'Capital in the Twenty-First Century' details exactly how things have gone in the last thirty years and no reputable economist has found flaws in his data.
And of course when AI really starts to bite, capital will be absolutely everything. The poor will not even be needed to fight wars anymore.Offer made; offer either accepted, rejected or negotiated. The potential employee and the business representative are the two parties involved. No others need apply, particularly governmental representatives, as it is a private contract between those two parties.
Right now the power is probably still on the employers side, but I've watched it swing both ways, several times, over my lifetime, and employee power is on the upswing.
The poor won't be needed? Don't you really mean the uneducated, unskilled won't be needed? As has happened for a thousand years and more, times are changing; either keep up with it or go under.AI is different to the revolution in working that factories and mechanisation produced.
Half of today’s work activities could be automated by 2055, give or take 20 years
Quote from the most authoritative study to date:
...currently demonstrated technologies can automate 45 percent of the activities people are paid to perform and that about 60 percent of all occupations could see 30 percent or more of their constituent activities automated, again with technologies available today.
http://www.mckinsey.com/business-functi … y-cant-yet
Do you want a say in this? And how will you have one if the political system is entirely owned by investors?
Will is right, whether in Britain or here in the states, it is exactly as he says. The plutocrats are hardly being imposed upon....
You might learn something outside the realm of standard conservative propaganda.With the left , just read between the lines , IT ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION , It will begin with the big bad conservative B.S. or end there but it always comes down to--" I want what he has "-- .......I can't earn enough , ........... I can't get the job I want , .......my child deserves more .......I can't pay my mortgage and have a new vehicle and a jet -ski too ...............I want free college ........... my five kids deserve more than this........
What we don't hear anywhere enough about wealth in political discussions is that first we have to be willing to earn it . Those that have wealth did it , you can too We never hear anything but grumbling about the entry level jobs and incomes , make no mistake , liberals don't want THAT ....... they want someone else's share of it . They already have the taxes of the peers , now give them what the wealthy have and they will be happy .
I must be in the wrong forums , where is the work ethics column ?It is the power that wealth delivers that really matters.
There is a feedback loop for the wealthy.
Tax cuts = more wealth concentrated in fewer hands
More wealth = more political power
Power leads to more tax cuts for the wealthy
And so it goes on.
But there is also this feedback
Tax cuts undermine the role of democratic government
Weakened democracy means less say for ordinary people
Weak government means the naked power of money grows and grows.
In the US, everything is drifting to a tyranny of corporations. You could all end living in company towns with no say in anything that matters.You seem to operate under the same misconception that Credence does: that the wealth of those that have more than you do somehow belongs to you rather than the person earning it. It doesn't; those tax cuts that bring their contribution more in line with yours merely leaves more of what they own in their hands, to do with as they wish rather than what you think it should be spent on. When the rich pay less in taxes than you do then you will have a legitimate beef about their share of the country's needs.
Can you explain how the rich, a tiny minority group, have more votes than the middle class with it's huge majority? How allowing them to control their assets rather than giving it to you provides them with more votes in a democratic society?This is what determines your income:
Your assets.
Your position in the economic hierarchy
Your bargaining power.
Your talent, work rate, contribution to the world, skills, are involved but not the dominant factors.
You will most likely die in the class you were born into, for one thing. And throwing up the rare rags to riches story, does not hide the overarching reality.
Studies in the UK, where there is a little more class mobility than the US, have found that that the occupation and status of your great grandfather is one of the primary determinants of how successful you will be economically.Excellent breakdown of wealth description , Yet there are always the minions who have neither the will to sacrifice enough to earn it , the intelligence to keep some of what they do acquire or the sense to marry up ! Who knows what feeds the " I deserve it " attitude of claiming ownership of another's ambition , wealth and treasures?
Gotta ask where or what country you live in will?
And that story defends double or triple dipping which you know happens ? Lets drop the being morally offended attitude and have a discussion , you have been here long enough to know my feelings about veterans and I know you have , but you also know whats happening with these excess' which are happening , Does a Senator deserve the same pension for two -four -six years ,---as your husband deserves ? On top of a lobbying income which 50 % of them align themselves to after "serving "in government ?
Perhaps your emotions cannot allow you to be fair in a discussion about government abuses .It is not an abuse to compensate veterans for their service. You're fine with sending other people to fight for you and then screwing them over when they're no longer needed.
Keep on with the one slant of rhetorical rant as It suits you well , however you know as well as I and your husband too that there are abuses , ask him if you don't believe it , yet you don't and won't address that . Like all government programs there are abuses to be vigilant of .
You want to be offended for personal cause , so be it.You called veterans receiving more than one government benefit "double dipping," did you not? Did you not also claim this is abuse?
Oh my ahorseback, you are sounding a bit like those you accuse of being wealth-distributing liberals. Or even, Pres. Obama's "... you didn't build, (earn?), that..."
Isn't that the same as telling someone how much they can earn? How much of their work effort results they can claim as theirs?
If one honestly earned pension is Ok, then why isn't the same 2nd, or even 3rd honestly earned pension Ok? Why is more than one abuse?
GA
if you were and are so destitute, you would not have time for exchanges here on this forum.
No, there are provisions in the law the prevent double dipping. I function on my federal pension solely with any social security benefits during period when not working in the Civil Service drastically reduced or eliminated. Old time Civil Service employees do not pay into social security and therefore are not entitled to anything in return.
One of the growth industries in Japan is the manufacture of prosthetic little fingers.
Why?
Partly, at least, because in Japan it is very, very difficult to get a gun. Much harder than Europe, let alone the US.
Not easy to be a gangster if you haven't got a gun. So, many Yakuza are quitting and covering up the trademark mutilated little finger with a prosthetic.
Much harder being a terrorist without a gun, too.Really? Do you stand behind that assessment? It appears a moving vehicle works better than a gun and makes terrorism an easy option in parts of the world. Bombs are much less accessible than a gun. They don't seem to encounter difficulty using those.
Cheap shots need to be thought out Will, or they just sound silly.It would be difficult to commit a crime with a gun , knife , or even a truck if we actually had an effective court and jailing system in the US !
Want a lucrative career ? Become a criminal in the US.!
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