Lying, going behind our backs, and this is how USA treats its friends

1. 79

   LondonGirlposted 15 years ago

   "A senior US official has told the BBC Washington decided not to tell London ahead of time about a deal to resettle four Guantanamo detainees in Bermuda.
   
   A diplomatic row blew up over Bermuda's decision to accept the four Chinese Muslim Uighurs on a US request.
   
   Bermuda is a British overseas territory but the US official said Washington had acted secretly to ensure success."
   
   Whoa, way to make friends and influence people, arrogant sods!
   
   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8098341.stm

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   1. 73

      someonewhoknowsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Take a look at the video below and you might reconcider what you think about your own government,just as I do about mine.
      
      http://www.human-dog.com/lab/?cat=7

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2. 60

   Teresa McGurkposted 15 years ago

   I wish someone would resettle me in Bermuda. . . .

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   1. 0

      pgrundyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I thought they were going to Palau? Watching the pictures of Palau on the news last night, I had the same thought.
      
      Oh well. I'm sure we'll both be classified as terrorists soon Teresa. Don't forget your sunscreen!

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      1. 79

         LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         17 to Palau, 4 to Bermuda.

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         1. 0

            pgrundyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Well, on a more serious note, of course it's very shabby. But then, the whole mess is shabby. I don't understand why we can't just put them in prison here on U.S. soil. The state of Michigan where I live has actually asked for them to come here--we need any kind of work we can get--and so have some other U.S. prisons.
            
            I mean, we're not talking toxic waste here, these are some ordinary guys.  Some are criminals, some we don't know what they are, but you'd think they were lethal aliens dripping toxic acid the way everyone is acting. We have other terrorists imprisoned in the U.S. and none have ever escaped and these in all likelihood wouldn't either.
            
            We have U.S. citizens shooting people they disagree with, and they and their friends are just running around being insane, while the whole world focuses on this motley crew from the mideast. I think it's crazy.

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3. 74

   frogdroppingposted 15 years ago

   Tsk tsk Lgirl - there's nothing like being shit on by your friends huh?
   
   Naughty naughty ...

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4. 65

   Mishaposted 15 years ago

   Did it really surprise you?

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   1. 79

      LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Surprise? No. Annoy? Yes.
      
      
      
      I think the USA should sort out its own screw-ups, not palm them off on the rest of us.
      
      
      
      The Foreign Office doesn't quite see it the same way.
      
      
      
      Fair enough, they are both lying bastards, then.

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      1. 65

         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         The question is then - why are you (UK) allies of USA? (leaving bermuda aside for now). It is not the first case of them cheating on allies, it is not the last I guess. Pick your friends carefully if you don't want to get disappointed

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      2. 74

         livewithrichardposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I wouldn't worry too much, hurricane season started 11 days ago and and I don't think Bush gave up his hurricane machine when he left office.  The Bermudans may need that $200mil to rebuild.
         
         I'm sure your statement was refering to the leaders of the 2 govts and not the people of those countries.  If so, point me to an honest leader that has no agenda.

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      3. 59

         nyliramposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         What you say is true, New Zealand does not trust America, I thought that was unfair, but have changed my opinion somewhat. Even some actions, resulting in loss of life  in Middle East are caused by America.

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5. 69

   ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

   Just out of curiosity, what would you do with them LG?

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6. 74

   livewithrichardposted 15 years ago

   I don't see that it's really that big of a deal.  According to that article that is linked, Britain is supposed to handle Bermuda's defence, security and foreign affairs, but it delegates the authority to make decisions on immigration to Bermuda.
   
   The detainees in question have been cleared of any wrongdoing over 4 years ago but they had no place to go.  China would persecute them (kill)

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7. 57

   Mrvoodooposted 15 years ago

   America our friends?  America doesn't have friends.  Accomplice perhaps.

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8. 86

   Patty Inglish, MSposted 15 years ago

   I feel bad that our govt proceeded without consulting UK, and simultaneously wonder at the suggestion that the Bermuda Governor accepted the Chinese Muslims and $200,000,000 promised US aid to use as a stick in the eye of UK to provide inflamed reaction and further grounds for seeking independence: 
   
   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8096925.stm
   
   It looks like opportunism on the part of USA, which needs to find places to put detainees; but what other political agendas will these placements serve?

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9. 54

   Blackngoldbananaposted 15 years ago

   Seems to me that you ought to be mad at Bermuda.  They couldn't say no?  The US was only half of this secret "tryst."

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10. 69

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Well some of this motley crew were friends of some crazy cats who just happened to crash several planes into buildings and kill several thousand people.  The biggest problem I had with Guantanamo Bay was that you always get some poor schmuck who gets fingered by someone who wants to mess with him.  I'm not sure of the ratio, but just like we've had the Innocence Project get people who were wrongly convicted released from jail here, there are some of those poor schmucks in Guantanamo. 
    
    The main dilemma is how do you separate them from the real hard core killers in there.  A couple of those that were released have already turned up on Al Qaeda cells in Yemen and probably other places too?  How do you know who is who?  What do you think is going to happen if they let one of the crazy cats out and the crash a plane into a building, or maybe they'll up the ante and set off a dirty nuke or something.  What do you tell the families of the victims then?
    
    Well, LG, I suppose we could just line them all up against a wall and take care of "our" mess that way.  I don't think that would be very cricket though, do you?

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    1. 79

       LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Why shouldn't they be re-settled in the USA? Why shipped all over the place?
       
       
       
       Mate, you have a point, and a very good point, too.
       
       
       
       That makes sense.
       
       
       
       Not to the populations of the countries, no, to the actual people who did this dirty little deal behind the bike sheds.

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11. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    The whole thing sounds a bit overblown.  Just right off the cuff, my initial reaction is that perhaps the secrecy has something to do with not wanting to rile the now known-to-be-a-fact right wing extremist groups in the US (after the shooting in the Holocaust Museum and the killing of George Tiller.)
    
    The report on these groups initially shelved has been ordered up again, post-haste.

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12. 0

    pgrundyposted 15 years ago

    Right. Our own nutballs are getting as scary as the foreign nutballs.
    
    I'm not happy with Obama on this. I think these people should be in U.S. prisons and tried here. If they are tried and found innocent, then address the question of what next. Yes it's uncomfortable, but shipping them all over the world like this under the radar is not great either. It makes us look like we can't take care of our own problems. It's not helping.

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    1. 74

       livewithrichardposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       They have already been aquitted by a federal judge of any wrongdoing, at least the 4 going to Bermuda.  And I think Lita is on to something with the incedent that happened at the Holocaust Museum.

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       Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Yep.  Some have remarked that Obama has to have other 'like' him.  But honestly, I think accepting our 'nut balls' as just a part of the fabric of America with 'views' and not want to upset them is wrong.  We SHOULD take care of our problems - there should strength of mind behind his policy making and convictions, and be damned what the Rush Limbaugh crowd is saying.  That is part of the problem.

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       1. 0

          pgrundyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Are you saying we should be taking hate speech and homegrown terrorism more seriously?
          
          I mean, I think so. I think a backlash is gearing up that is truly ugly and dangerous. You saw some of it in the 'tea parties'--all that birth certificate nonsense and Limbaugh saying publicly that Obama is more dangerous than Bin Laden--that's whacked. Even during the campaign we were seeing the beginning of a sort of fascist movement here. It's not just a few nutballs and I don't think it should be seen as some part of 'free speech' we just have to accept. If foreigners were doing this stuff we'd be apoplectic.

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          1. 0

             Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Agreed.  And yes, absolutely, I am saying we take it more seriously.  This is why I cannot abide Limbaugh and the other professional right-wing shock marketers.
             
             It isn't free speech.  It's irresponsible and incendiary speech.  And dangerous.
             
             edit:  And no, Misha.  Not prison camps.  But let's get back to reality and responsibility again and not tolerate this crap for the sake of 'equal time' and fairness.  Yeah, fairness for actual bigots and racists?

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                tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                I take it you felt the same way when the previous president was the target of every possible horrible hyperbole?

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                   Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   This is a complicated issue.  There was not enough real reporting.  Or are you referring to political satire?  That is an art form, you know.
                   
                   Did you know, too, that the ACLU (oh, those evil liberals) protect the right to free speech of pro-lifers?  huuuuuaaaah?
                   
                   But why even attempt to talk to you?  I'm beginning to see Mark Knowles' point about education.

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                   1. 61

                      tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      LOL!!! Oh, of course!

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13. 90

    gamergirlposted 15 years ago

    YAY!! LET'S START DIVISIVE BEHAVIOR BETWEEN OUR COUNTRIES BECAUSE OF SOME DUDES WHO NEED TO BE IMPRISONED SOMEWHERE, ANYWHERE!
    
    (Many apologies for the caps - they're that way for a reason.)

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    1. 0

       Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Well, it CAN be seen as a diplomatic snub, no doubt.

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14. 65

    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    Yeah Pam, let's put all those hate speechers and home grown terrorists into concentration camps. Don;t worry, it's a next step, it's just around the corner

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15. 69

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    LG, we shouldn't settle them here because most of the guys who just got caught up in things don't have a reason to feel grateful towards us. In their view we've deprived them of years off their lives for something that wasn't their fault.  The least we can do is get them somewhere and give them the resources to start over.  That alone may be enough for them not to turn into jihadis. 
    
    Pam, why is it hate to throw a tea party in the US?  Why is it hate to request the birth certificate of the President?  I think you mean that you don't agree with the tea parties and don't agree that the President should be forced to prove his citizenship.  That's not hate, that's you disagreeing with people.

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       Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Obama produced it already. That 'point' is just SO NOT SERIOUS. Nobody with any sense--Republican or Democrat would ever believe such a thing. Have you any idea the clearance level it takes to do anything in government?
       
       And underlying >many< of the tea parties, at least the ones I witnessed on YouTube, etc., was a serious appeal to the right wing 'base'--and yeah, read that word both ways--with overtures of racism, sexism, classism, and xenophobia.

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16. 0

    Am I dead, yet?posted 15 years ago

    You know how the saying goes...'with friends like these....'
    
    Where else should they send them? Many of them were youths when they were captured (some as young as 12 - 14). So much of it is brainwashing. Would it matter where they go? The entire world is screwed up to begin with. There is no they, them, or ours anymore. This is a global society. What the extremist does to cause chaos to any one country, suffers the rest.  Some one has to make the unpopular decision. No matter who likes it or not. You cannot please all of the people, all of the time.

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17. 69

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    Lita, I've worked in the government, my dad was in the military for decades, I've had experience with the types of people who work in the public sector.  Let me tell you there's only a few people that keep the whole thing running.  If you really saw what went on, on a day to day basis, you'd lose your mind.  Obama also said that his bailouts will save the economy.  We'll find the truth of that soon, but I have my doubts.  If he's wrong about the economy, what makes you think he knows what he's doing regarding the detainees?
    
    I'll thank you not to lump me in with racists, xenophobes or anyone else who hates.  I happen to believe that a government that governs least governs best.  That doesn't make me a hater, nor does it mean that I'm evil.

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    1. 0

       Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       OK, my bf was an officer in the army and built/oversaw the construction of Gitmo.  So we both know there is no possible way Obama is not a US citizen, correct?  Well, if you don't, he apparently does.
       
       And the rest of the post about the hater stuff I will ignore, as you do see my point was about the Republican base--and the base (as I witnessed, at least, on YouTube) being very well represented at the tea parties.

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       1. 69

          ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Lita, you're ranting and it's a bit hard to follow the points you're trying to make.  It is entirely possible that Obama is not a citizen.  He could wrap up the problem pretty quick and score a pretty good political coup by producing the correct documentation and ending it once and for all.  With all the benefits that would accrue to him if he did it, the fact that he hasn't is disturbing.  Most politicians in the right would treat this just like Hannibal did the Romans at Cannae, they'd let their opponents mouth off, then cut them off at the knees.  Obama hasn't done this yet and this would be the perfect time for him to do it.
          
          As for the second part of my rant, it was also meant to be a warning.  When you can no longer control your emotions and lash out at people whose opinions are different from your own, then you're in just as much danger of becoming intolerant and hate-filled as the people you oppose.  Of course the racists came out and supported the tea parties.  That is about as close as they can ever get to legitimacy.  Rank and file party members are little different than you are.  There's a lot of uncertainty and fear out there these days, ripping people for their beliefs is not the most constructive thing we can be doing.

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18. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    That was not a rant.  I'm saying, quite calmly--Obama has already provided this information.  This can be researched.  So there isn't a point at all in this, as far as I am concerned.  I am also saying that my bf, a former decorated officer in the armed forces--who built Gitmo, just incidentally--recognizes that to have access at the level Obama has, it would be impossible for him not to have provided his US birth certificate.
    
    In response to the rest of your stuff, that is very silly.  I'm nowhere near being emotional.  You are reading something into my words (maybe you wish were there? I dunno, lol...as I realize you do like a good 'argument.') But you needn't worry at all, as I have absolutely NO emotional intent towards you, I guarantee.
    
    So, I have made my points, and respectfully end the conversation.  (lol--I'll never forget the day you called me a cretin, lol, lol! )
    
    Oh, cheer up!

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19. 69

    ledefensetechposted 15 years ago

    That statement was inadvertent. .  Still it does seem like things are getting more and more out of control, does it not?  One of the first areas I studied in history was the Civil War and the parallels between then and now are chilling.
    
    No I have a hard time believing that the President was forced by anyone to have shown his birth certificate.  He's commander in chief of the military and the National Command Authority.  Who exactly in the military or the intelligence community is going to demand his birth certificate?  He's their boss after all.  No he'd go for the public relations coup.  Since he hasn't well that's still disturbing.

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20. 61

    seemorebangkokposted 15 years ago

    I don't get what the big deal is. US screws there own people, so why is it so unbelieveable they'll lie to allies. It's just a vicious cycle that happens all over the world.
    
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a USA basher. Millions of people from all over the world are trying to immigrate there so the country is doing something right.
    
    But here's a kicker http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_worl … anamo.html
    
    USA is giving Palau 200 miillion USD for holding 17 uighurs. I have a better idea. Give me 17 million, 1 million each and I'll hold them up in my 3 bedroom house. I'll put them in my yard in a family sized tent.

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21. 62

    HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago

    Okay, have not heard this story until now, but do have a thought on the subject. The citizens of the USA are tired of financing the world's wars. We support every country on the globe, even those who back us up and then leave for some unknown reason. I don't particularly agree with US policy. I believe we should let others fight their own battles. We get involved because of an infraction of human rights or poor government control, but all it does is make us look poorly to those nations who could give a damn beyond their boundaries. I know, we are not always right, only because there are many US citizens that would rather keep our guys and women safe at home instead of yielding to political agendas.

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