The federal reserve wants a North American Union
- Leta Sposted 15 years ago
0 - Leta Sposted 15 years ago0
I'm coming after you now, SIR, for a laugh...
He won't answer the questions because he would rather troll and flirt. I don't care if he flirts, but trolling is boorish.
Lol, moral to the story is that you can't flirt and be a troll at the same time!
- pgrundyposted 15 years ago0
- pgrundyposted 15 years ago0
Looking at history we may see several cases when Nature prevented some pretty bad things from happening, of course in its very perverted ways, like Hitler saving the World from Communism. I would bet the same mechanism will prevent the World Central Bank from appearing
OMG. I know we are in deep, weird waters when I find myself agreeing with Misha.
Ooops, I forgot I did not write Hitler-Stalin hubs yet, and official history is not what I was talking about.
Well, the main premise would be that Hitler did not plan to save the World, he was trying to save his ass, and in the process managed to prevent Stalin from occupying the whole EurAsia and possibly Africa.
So the point is that it won't happen not because people will consciously oppose it, but because of some weird coincidence, which we have no idea what exactly it will be
PS Hi Pam *waiving his hand*
Hell I must be seeing things now. The tinfoil beanie shot was in response to some crack about banks basically starting WW I and WW II and all kinds of other Majestic 12 kinda stuff. There's too much conspiracy theory, mason, illuminati stuff floating around here. It's not good for mental health.
By now it's a sort of inscestual relationship between government and banking. It was, however, politicians who set it up. A central bank could never exist without the faith and backing of a government. Both bankers and politicians get something at the expense of everyone else. The only way to kill central banking before total economic collapse is to kill it using some sort of political mechanism. We have the opportunity to do that, seeing as we elect our leaders, which is why education on the facts is so important.
Misha, I can hope, but seeing the barbarities central banks and central governments perpetuate on people, I don't hold out much hope. I could be wrong, but unintended consequences are surprises. You don't want to live your life wishing for surprises.
Hey Sufi, I hear you, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Inflation kinda makes it hard to start a business, don't you know. If these idiots would get out of our way, we'd have things lined out within a year or so.
bgamall, watch the price of bread. Once that gets too high, people will decide they've had too much. I give it a year or so. We're not hungry yet, once people are hungry, things will change no matter what the political class wants.
But there is always the upside, LDT - some folks have seen through the BS and have rolled up their sleeves. Maybe not enough, but passive resistance has to start somewhere.
- pgrundyposted 15 years ago0
I have to confess I'd rather it be held up by something more substantial,like gold. Right, Pam?
Oh no, I can't bite right now! I'm watching ghosts on the Sci Fi channel.
I'm working on a hub about it though.
Well, I am pretty sure it is accurate. I am with those guys for almost a decade now, and never saw them lying. In fact the one you point to shows exactly the same picture, it is just not as clear because of the resolution.
So, looks like it was different in the last century, but since around year 2000 Fed clearly follows, not leads.
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
Ramen
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
niterz, ledefense. loved arguing with you, as usual.
next time then.
Except Ralph, that it is now used for more than just monetary independence. The fed pushes around Bank of America through the treasury secretary, gives money to central banks in Europe without congressional authorization, etc. That needs to be stopped and investigated, not necessarily in that order. No that is the correct order.
And yes, Led, if we feed a troll like Tksensie he will only want more. I think trolls are one brick short of a completed wall. Or maybe two bricks. Some of them are many bricks short of a completed wall. We wouldn't want to stereotype all trolls. Misha knows about trolls as he is an expert on these boards.
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
too early, at least for me.
but a nice try. :paw, it wasn't criticism.
it was more a statement on my a.m. functionality.
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
I'm sure this will still be going on when I return
I have to get to my house and errands. have fun, you guyz. - DarwinsLaureateposted 15 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
I don't see why not. The basis of your argument here is that if we can't control it, why bother to pass a law to try to stop it. We have laws against stealing, murdering, slandering, and a whole host of other bad behavior. In reality, we can't stop a single crime by making it illegal. What we can do is use legislation to set out a cause and effect, crime and punishment.
And yes, it's a weak argument in some way, ie we all have some area we feel like this about, for example I don't like passing laws against victimless crimes. But stealing through fraud isn't victimless. And it's not a weak argument as in comparing two different things. That part of it is sound, imo. Deregulation leaves a huge opening for violation of someone's property (their investments).
I'm familiar with the tulip bubble but not aware of the others. Assuming similarities to the tulip, housing or other similar, my point would be. I never said deregulation was the only thing to cause bubbles, just that it has been, in this case, part of this bubble. Rampant speculation for any reason can cause a bubble.
I saw a nice piece on this I'll see if I saved later... meltdown 101: how likely will it be for more ponzi schemes to come up... something like that, you can probably google it.
lol, thx on the female ref. but I don't take offence if you say man anyway. hehe.
I can agree people often don't bother to educate themselves on really really important things, like politics and finance and it's to their own detriment. So you have that. However, I disagree that it's because they think government is going to take care of them. I don't think I know a single person who trusts the government now or even before this mess.
And I'll come back to agreeing again on the statement about the concept of any kind of protection that seems to be in place for the average citizen is probably a smokescreen to keep us from noticing the government screws us all on a regular basis.
And here is the part we agree on again and by far the best part of your arguement. I wouldn't disagree with you that competition is absolutely necessary. I don't have the education in the specifics but if there is a hurdle to allowing competiton in the financial market, I would probably agree with you that it should be removed. I'd have to look at the particular legislation and study it to really have a good opinion.
I think as far as influencing pleasing the consumer or customer you are being idealistic. I think corporatism has made these conglomerates so huge, they could care less. In fact, I think a horrible decline in national ethics has also contributed, a decline led in by the "me" generation thing of the 1980s and the rise of yuppies.
What's the better way to police the market than setting regulations and having an agency big enough to inspect and enforce? Maybe I missed it, but surely you aren't suggesting the nature of the free market itself is enough?The reason you don't bother to pass laws against this type of thing in free markets is first, competition eliminates the benefits of doing this sort of thing. I've also mentioned partial deregulation in the past which is what we saw not full deregulation. Sooner or later regulatory agencies become staffed with people from the industry they're trying to regulate or people who want to go work for people in the industry they're trying to regulate. Regulations don't work in the long run. They can't. When you involve government and the economy, corruption runs rampant.
Just trying to be a more modern man. Hey women make up half of the economy, you cannot ignore their effects on it. It is a major reason why our economies tend to outperform patriarchal or matriarchal societies.
Sure they do. What's the first thing that happens when something occurs? Where was the FDA? SEC? FBI? CIA? Look at the salmonella poisonings last year. Everyone knows that the FDA cannot possibly inspect everything, so they have to prioritize. Sooner or later something will happen, it's just a matter of time. If companies are responsible for quality control, however, and there is no government to go to for help, they're screwed if anything happens so they do the best they can to make sure nothing does. The way things are now all they have to do is fool the FDA inspector and it's all good because if something happens, they can blame the FDA. So regulatory agencies deflect people's wrath from the offending companies to government agencies.
In addition, look up Underwriter's Laboratories. They're a private company that test consumer products for safety. Their brand is the little UL you see on things like lamps and such. There's no regulatory agency for lamp safety because of firms like UL. There's no reason that other industries cannot have companies offer the same service. Companies would then fight to get their brand listed because people know, for a fact, that whatever has that brand is safe. Companies like UL have an incentive to provide accurate information because if they slip up, they fail. The FDA being a public institution will never fail no matter how many times they screw up. So where's the incentive to work hard as a member of a government institution?
Of course I am. You've already agreed with me that government sets the rules of the marketplace. One government takes that power, it opens itself up to influence from the very industry it tries to regulate. The industry then rewrites the rules so that the players in the industry benefit. The first thing they do is strangle competition, because that's the biggest threat to them. Once they close them market, their customer becomes not central to their plans, but someone who pays them for the privilege of being a customer. Remember without competition, you cannot go anywhere else for service. Thus companies devote less resources to customer service and more to bribes and CEO salaries.
You cannot have both regulation and free entry into a marketplace. It'll never happen. That's why big businesses only put up token resistance to regulations because they know they have the influence of lawmakers, and if they don't win this one, they might the next. Governments are not meant to run economies. Every single time that has happened, the government has made a hash of it. You're unknowingly, I think, arguing a Progressive belief that only government is large enough and wise enough to run the economy. Government can force it's way into controlling the economy, but there is no way it can run an economy. We're seeing the effects of that all around us today.
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
you've made a good argument and I agree in some parts. however, I shall have to take it apart later as I'm already running late on my errands and don't have the time.
I shall return however and separate parts of your points and note points of agreement and points of disagreement on them then.It's a date then.
I cede the point.
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
gah, I don't have the energy at the moment to take this apart, but to say I stand by my position on most of the top sections - you've made your case, I just don't agree.
On numbers in the workfroce, I say society AND men AND womwn were better off when there were gender roles and people did what worked for a society and for families. Doubled numbers in the workforcew led directly to garbabge wages for everyone and offered even more ways for men to be irresponsible (bet you didn't expect that one). Let's not tangent on that here, (or anywhere, lol) but suffice it to say I don't agree.
I think companies would try to cheat consumers with or without government (like the peanut company and the salmonella in Georgia).
The UL deal just sounds like a way to create another invisible tax... companies get to produce shoddy goods and we put the burden on the consumer to have each item they buy tested by someone in the industry. Not just a tax but the probabilities for corruption are endless.
And the problems you describe in the bottom are ethical lacks and immoral choices, not some sure result from government regulation, yet... here you have that point again. That corruption is exactly what happened. I'm not sure at all that the point isn't... companies are corrupt, with regulation or without so let's regulate the hell out of them. - Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
Klara Tzetkin!
- Iðunnposted 15 years ago0
don't make me look it up.
I've lapsed in my study. It doesn't help that I never got around to buying the Russian learner books. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_Zetkin
Yet I just used this as a common nickname for a female socialist
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