There is a problem within the United States that goes back all the way to the founding of the U.S.: the Separation of Church and State. From my stand-point, I believe that ALL religions, from Christianity to Islam to Buddism, must not be segregated from the American public because religions haven't done anything majorly wrong to America or the World. One of the lame excuses that some Americans use to separate religion from the public are the past crimes religions had committed on people, (the Crusades, the Inquisition, witch burning, etc.). What they don't understand is that that was a very long time ago. It was a totally different generation that shouldn't have any effect here in the future whatsoever.
So the point I'm trying to make here is that religions don't believe in the Crusades or the Inquisition or witch burning anymore. They have matured. They don't want to force anyone to join their faith. They don't want to hurt anyone. Again I say, they have matured. The mission of religions now is to help achieve peace and love and to help those in serious need. Anyone who wishes to achieve peace and love in the world must not be segregated or intolerated. Segregation is evil. Look what it did to the African-Americans in the southern states of America. And intolerance of others due to their faith or culture is an bad attitude to have.
However, I will say this: according to my belief, the only thing that should be separated between the church and the government is lawmaking. I do not want the church to tell the federal government how to run things, nor do I want the government to tell the church how to practice their faith. It's only fair that way.
I for one certainly don't want to force anyone to join a religion. All I'm doing is pointing out that religons are not evil cults or anything like that. They are now peaceful organizations that want nothing more than to help those in serious need, for example the poor. They deserve some tolerance.
And that's why religions musn't be separated from the American public.
The Germans and the Italians and the Japanese and the Spanish all about the 1930 really embraced a close tie between their governments and Religions. We call the practice Fascism now. But I think most will agree it was modern reminder of the kinds of things that happen when governments get to cozy to religions.
I am going to guess they are talking about church schools, funding, charities, and the like. Gray areas. But at least they are not like the crazies here lately who believe the constitution only stated that government stay out of religion.
You really have a benevolent eye about religions, a tad overoptimistic ... Anyway the point of the matter being that ... the separation between church and state has nothing to do with religions being separated from the American public...
I suggest that you peruse attentively these forums and you will soon realize that the American public is not only not separated from religions but rather glued to religions, a non-separation that always surprises foreign eyes.
By the way, religions (or most other cultural trait) do not deserve tolerance but acceptance. Who are we to "tolerate" others as if we were their superiors. All of us have to "accept" each other, and each other religion, with great respect. By my saying this I'm proving that I am an overoptimistic person too.
However, I do not understand what you take issue with.
"There is a problem within the United States that goes back all the way to the founding of the U.S.: the Separation of Church and State. From my stand-point, I believe that ALL religions, from Christianity to Islam to Buddism, must not be segregated from the American public because religions haven't done anything majorly wrong to America or the World."
These two things are apples and oranges. You start out with saying the constitution is a problem, and then you end in saying you want religion out of government and law. And that's what the constitution ensures.
Religion seems very available to the American public in many forms. I don't think there is any lack.
You seem harmless, kind of like a butterfly or something... That just wasn't grammatical.
*edit: And OP, should have put this in Religion. Much more action there...all we have is crazies with no argument at all here these days, .
I have been super busy lately, saving the world. I am coming to the realization the world don't fancy saving all that much. LOL
Yeah, lol. I did my part with that in my early 20's. I now need to make $$.
I beg to differ - this is where religion really belongs.
He is not here for a discussion anyway - he just joined up to tell us what we MUST do. And there is nothing but crazies with no argument in the religion forum now. I have given up even talking to them now. I can only take so much cut and pasted garbage that they then complain I do not spend 3 hours rebutting.
And to the OP if he ever comes back - religion MUST be kept away from government. The guys who wrote your constitution were geniuses.
"How the hell do we keep these religious fanatics from running the country?"
"I know - let's tell them we will keep religion and state separate so they are free to practice whatever they like without government interference. They are too blinkered to work out it is a two way street."
I am a little confused by the multiple points of the original post.
The separation of church from state is an entirely unrelated point to the rights of citizens to follow the faith of their choosing.
When the state is not separated from the church you have political decisions being directly influenced by religious beliefs e.g. Iran.
The United states is technically separated from the church although there is a little too much "In god we trust" for my liking.
This implies one religion has a higher standing than another. Either change the saying to "In God, Allah, Buddah, etc. etc. we trust" or better still, leave deities out of it all together.
One look at the passion stirred up regularly in the Religious forums should highlight the danger. The leaders of nations need to act calmly and with reason.
Passion and nuclear weapons do not mix.
This is not a frivolous point. Countless wars have their origins in conflicting religions. Lets hope the world has 'matured' as you suggest. Yes the crusades were a long time ago but The War on Terror seems pretty fresh to me.
People in the US have religious freedom. The problem is that some religions have beliefs/practices that conflict with some of the rights, freedoms, and protections guaranteed by The Constitution. A related problem is that American society, on the whole, does tend to share values/beliefs when it comes to things like the rights of children or women to be protected from what is deemed as "abuse". A good example of where conflict exists is the religion that has young girls being forced into marriage and robbed of many of the freedoms and protections many other Americans have.
If a religion (with practices that conflict with The Constitution and the basic America culture) is to thrive in the US I think the only way for that to happen is for that religion to "mature" (the way others have said other religions have throughout history) and "get with the program" in the US. Another option is to practice those "conflicting" religions outside the US. If people in a "conflicting" religion feel segregated in the US it is because their religion is segregating them from mainstream American society. If that's ok with them then I guess it's their choice.
There is a very big difference between what went on with African-Americans (who did nothing to bring on their horrible mistreatment and segregation; and the treatment of whom actually was in conflict with the nation's stated principles; and people who feel segregated because of the religion they choose to follow (or, in fairness to some believers, they feel they have no choice but to follow). US laws guarantee them religious freedom, but if that religion has practices that conflict with others laws and societal values; those people will feel isolated, but that will be because their religion denies some followers some of the rights, protections, and freedoms The Constitution guarantees. I don't know what the answer to that is (other than practice the "conflicting religion" somewhere outside the US); but I don't think any "segregation" is the fault of the government or the general population, the way slavery and segregation were in the past. Ideally, those "conflicting" religions will modify their practices to bring them in keeping with American government and society, and there won't be a problem.
I'm pretty sure our founders (who may be ashamed of us now, with all our Glen Beckians and other cheap preachers of religion or politics) saw the issues Europe had a few centuries ago.
And, yeah, MK, you are right. I don't want them anywhere near our government.
Really appreciate a poster and a debate that isn't at the aforementioned level, however.
No religious teaching in world has asked their followers to commit crime. It just manipulations by religious leaders to retain their power that enmity among people belonging to different religion is created.
Religions must be tolerated... because birth and death are common to all. Religious intolerance may advance the death of a person.. but cannot avoid it. Everyone is going to die one day. Killing a person in the name of religion and feeling proud is meaningless. The same death comes to the killers also in due course. It will be wise to treat all religions as equal and avoid intolerance.
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