How many people think that Bush is going to unilaterally invade Iran
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago
0 - Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
Misha, I've wanted to get out of this country for years. I may still if I can finagle it. I've advised all my children to flee this place before it becomes a third-world hellhole, because I'm sure it's going to.
I have to disagree with you. First, I think he is that big of an idiot. Second, I think whether he is an idiot or no, he will do it because it's good for his pocketbook and he could care less what is good for America. Third, I think he is a very stubborn man and it's on his 'to-do' list and fourth I see the build up in the media.
I know everyone likes to think the Dems will stop him, but they have been in office almost two years now with power and don't and I've lost a lot of faith in them. I so wanted to believe.
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
OK, let me re-phrase myself and expand a bit
He may be an idiot in a conventional meaning, but in order to get that high, he should be really good in evaluating balance of powers. That's a must for a politician of any caliber - at least based on my understanding of how politics work.
With the invasion of Iraq US lost quite an amount of support in Muslim world, but invasion of Iran will put US against the rest of Muslims, most (if not all) of the Europe, and Russia. Not sure about China and East Asian countries joining this list, but majority definitely will not be on American side.
Now, with all American might, US will not win the full-blown war against the whole Muslim world. Especially considering there will be no worthwhile allies. This is all about balance of power, and I'm sure Bush understands the picture.
Well, there is one more variable to the picture, though - current US economic crisis. If the major goal is to distract people from domestic problems (as I think it was with Iraq, btw), then war is a proven solution. This is where my analysis can go wrong, but I still think American political elite is smart enough to pick a different war for this. Not a suicidal one...Misha, I can't tell you how much I hope you're right about this.
Your arguments are so logical. They're dead-on correct regarding the effect this would have on our place in the world.
And that's why I think the exact opposite will happen I have yet to see logic, reason, or fairness enter into any of the decisions that have been made in our foreign policy so far.- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
I agree that it's suicidal for us and that europe will turn their back on us, even England and Australia.... I mean look what their recent elections indicated over Iraq.
That said, you are looking at it from a 'normal' standpoint. You have to follow the money and look at it from an economic viewpoint to see the real picture. In the U.S. everything is about making money regardless of ethics or morals or right or wrong. Capitalism is amoral if not immoral.
Let's say that Bush doesn't care what happens to the U.S. as a whole, which I firmly believe. Let's say invading Iran starts a seemingly unending global conflict - we declare war on a religion and kill a bunch of innocents (which we are already doing) and they start a bunch of terroristic acts here (since they don't have the military might to beat us).
Who gains? People who get no-bid contracts for 'defense' abroad and then increasingly here, and the corporations involved in making weaponry and the people who own stock in those things and those who own stock in oil.
He'll do it and he'll do it because the elite own this government and because it's "good business". They don't care about anything else. - Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
yeah to all of that.
my guess it will end up being giuliani vs clinton and clinton will take it. huckabee can't get it because he's loony (although he seems nice) and the mormon guy is out. ron paul is an economic idiot who would drive us into another Great Depression and if he runs independent he will split the Repub vote ensuring Clinton's win. I would think McCain is their best bet but the GOP doesn't like him because he split on the party line over our right to torture people.
Our side, Obama is too young, too inexperienced and that's even if the bigots don't vote him down. I like Edwards, but he's too nice a guy to have a chance. It will be Hillary in primary. I'm sure of it. I don't like her much.
giuliani is a mafia thug. zomg I am going to put that bloody Hub back up. I had just deleted it because it was so controversial but it's all backed up with reliable sources. I had it up when I first noticed him starting up his presidential bid. it won't be updated yet, but I suppose now I will have to.
I did mention in my Hub profile I'm not a poet. I'm a politco
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
It would be nice to have some sort of debate here, where are the conservatives?
There must be some on here---maybe they haven't seen this yet?
That, or Hubpages is a haven for liberals
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
The problem is that there are currently no justifications for the U.S to invade any country at all. The Arab nations have been attacking one another for thousands of years, why is it suddenly our purpose to bring peace to a land that will remain stricken until the peoples as a whole choose not to fight one another?
America is most certainly not the best country to be the "World Police force."
With the decline of sanity in our government officials, I am merely waiting for the day that Canada takes over. I've even got a maple leaf flag ready for it! - Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
ok, that made me smile.
I wish. I don't have a Canadian flag, but I do have the Irish tri-colour. I'll fly mine if you'll fly yours. "Oh, Canada, my home and native land...."
LOL I have to learn the rest of it- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
LOL I didn't even get the first line right!!!
Thanks gamergirl- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
this is like, the best thread ever. go thoog!
*wonders why people think I am anti-american* - Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
I'm not really anti-american either although it often looks that way. I think our current government is anti-american and has been since the "reagan revolution" and the introduction of supply-side economics.
you guys have to remember I'm really old and I remember the beaver cleaver days of glory of america when people just went to work and could house and feed their families. I want that back. I can't believe I've been drawn into a political discussion LOL. I avoided such things like a plaque for many years...
Anyway, I think we tend to look at politicians and generally at rich people too - umm - one-dimensionally. It's not all about money, they are people like us, they have friends and families, they have kids and things to worry about, they want to love and be loved, etc., etc.
They care about their friends and relatives as much as we do, and do not care about strangers like us as much as we don't care about them. Do you personally care about Bush or Clinton or Rockefeller? Why should him care about you, then?
I think on average their addiction to money is pretty much the same as for poor people or middle class. There are people for whom money is everything, there are people for whom money is nothing, and most of us (or them) are in between.
Also, I don't buy into "money rule the world" or "economics rule the world". I think economics and money (and the rest of what is happening in our lives) just follow what our individual and communal consciousness (or unconsciousness for that matter ) dictates. I've been fed up with materialistic views on the Universe too much in school and university, I'm a total idealist in this sense now
People on the top try to rule the country as good as they can, taking into account their personal (not necessarily monetary) interests first, and our interests second. That is exactly how we perform at work - why do we get so furious about that then? It is in human nature to behave like this, and cannot be changed - but can be accounted for.
So, coming to the conclusion - I don't think it is in American political elite interests to start this suicidal war. Too much danger and hassle to their own families, friends, and themselves. That being said, people don't always behave rationally. It's in the human nature, too. Groups of people are even worse in that sense...
P.S. While I was writing this thread moved three pages down and completely off-topic. LOL. Trying to steer it back on topicTheres's this great old song in Italy that's still aired from time to time,
"Se potessi avere, mille lire al mese" which means "If I could have 1000 lire a month" (which is roughly 1 dollar)
You can hear all the neighbors sigh in unison when it's played
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
I tend to disagree with you, Misha. I think a lot of the ways rich people get rich involve unearned income that is derived from the misery of others and could even be viewed as theft of labor, however legal and that it makes them bad people generally.
However, that said, Misha, don't get mad at me either.I find "Don't judge and you will not be judged" to be a fundamental cornerstone of every religion I know of. It took me a while to understand when I'm judging and when I'm not, though. With my current understanding, I would say that I was judging if I was to say something like you just said
Hey, we're doing rather well with the whole keeping it polite thing here.
Misha, I would really like to think that the guys up top care, but honestly I don't believe they do. They SAY they do, and that is why I find politicians to be sleazy, manipulative and on the whole conniving. Don't tell me you care about the issues that need addressed and then divert your whole attention to invading countries which were never our place to invade. Just care and fix our country.
I do think, on the side, that people as a whole think it is up to the government to fix issues all by themselves. When it doesn't happen, this tends to cause anger which is blindly directed at the government.
When we point our finger at them, we point three at ourselves. Every individual is held accountable, or should be, for any country's decline.I am, by and large, an honest person. I won't lie to get a job, or over exaggerate my skills either. I am pretty blunt, online and offline. My tact programming is like Windows Vista. It's pretty, but it doesn't mesh with 90% of programs.
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
nicely put
Oh pish-posh Misha!! You love to get me talking about something other than the topic, don't you?
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
- Iðunnposted 16 years ago0
we'll have to agree to disagree.
it really has been fun debating with you and I'm glad you posted and I hope to again, but I do have to do some 'good' or 'useful' things around the house, because they aren't doing themselves :p
you guyz have a neat day and hope to catch you all this laterz this evening. As is that why they have heaven and hell?
Sorry Misha, I got dropped, the thread was moving very quickly.
I was refering to
I think that not judging is a valid philosophy, although I disagree with this comment. Christianity raises you with a certain mind-set with regards to good and bad, and subsequently you're ability to judge.
The 10 commandments for instance. The idea of heaven and hell. I'm aware that Jesus said he'd not judge. But it seems fairly paradoxical.
Interestingly, the idea that he forgave us, is a sign that he "judged" us.
I'm not a Christian so feel free to correct me
I'm not a Christian either. And I do not belong to any formal religion, including atheism
The fact that one is raised with certain preconceptions does not give to the mind ability to judge - I think. How many times in your life you saw the event initially considered bad for you turned into good, and vice versa? And then turned the other way? And once more? I've seen this a lot. And this is just on individual level, let alone the great scale of things.
I link not judging in Western religions to non-duality concept in Eastern ones.
As for what is literally written in Bible and other sacred books - I take this with a *huge* grain of salt. After those books were given, they were translated, edited, and re-written million times - and not always by the people without embedded interests...Well, I think one has to terminate personal judgment in order to reach heaven or avoid samsara - whichever rings your bell
I'm really talking about personal opinion here. In that sense, I like Paraglider's motto quite a bit - read his profile if you haven't yet.
Putin - I think both, and Musharaff probably, too. Those things are not mutually exclusive. Remember Saddam? He was a dictator, but his country was stable...
I can lose a lot of fans here ( (c) jimmy ), but I'm not sure democracy is something that grants sanity by default.
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