What is Behind This Colorado Theater Shooting? Did Society Arm the Wrong Guys?

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   Lord De Crossposted 13 years ago

   What is Behind This Colorado Theater Shooting? Did Society Arm the Wrong Guys?
   
   Unfolding news talk about a 24 years old murderer, who killed 12 persons and injured about 50 more at a Batman Movie screening. Couldn't have this been prevented. What is behind this horrific act? Are we arming the wrong guys? Our prayers for the victims and their families.

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   Jack Burtonposted 13 years ago

   I wasn't aware that some guy named "society" was walking around handing out guns willy nilly to everyone he met. As far as a horrendous act of evil being prevented, when you figure out a way to remove evil from human hearts then get back to us with the question. About 100 people were killed at the Happyland nightclub years ago with a gallon of gasoline and a match. The killer could have driven his car into the crowd at the front of the theater and killed as many people.
   
   Let's wait and find out a little more about this person, and the incident... and then we can begin to ask intelligent and reasonable questions.

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   xstaticposted 13 years ago

   Big IF here: IF this physco was allowed to buy guns legally, if he did really obtain them lawfully, then there is no doubt we are "arming the wrong guys."  The sad thing is that he could easily have obtained the guns illegally. It has always been my feeling that there are too many guns of all kinds in this country anyway.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      IF the guy is adjudicated mentally ill it was illegal for him to own or buy guns. Sellers are not mindreaders, prophets or analysts. 1/2 of 1% of guns are used illegally. Do you think taking the guns away from the law abiding 99.5% will fix things?

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      xstaticposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks to NRA folks, we have hardly any restrictions on who can buy guns. But this is an endless debate that will probably never be resolved. Little point in discussing it on HP, it is in letters to the editor daily somewhrere.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks to ACLU folks, we have hardly any restrictions on who can freely speak.  But this is an endless debate that will probably never be resolved. Little point in discussing it on HP, it is in letters to the editor daily somewhere.

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      Craig Suitsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You only mentioned guns used illegally. It's the unregistered illegal guns that is the issue and the problem...

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Craig doesn't know that very few states "register" guns. But he comments about "unregistered guns" as if they are a reality anyway.

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   Eztransferposted 13 years ago

   One of the worst things about being human is you can never tell for certain what good or evil plan someone else has in their mind. Anyone of us is capable of freaking out and going on a murder spree. Most of us refrain from that because we know we would be caught and put to death. For this type of person we should bypass all the courtroom drama and 20 years of appeals on death row and publicly put them to death on the court house lawn. I can't help but wonder why so many young people are going off the deep end here in Colorado. I pray for the souls of all the innocent people who's lives were taken and their loved ones.

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   mintinfoposted 13 years ago

   The same issue always arises whenever an incident such as this one occurs. "Should guns be banned?" and as always the sane answer is "it's not guns that kill people, it's people who kill people".
   
   The focus has to be on the psychological health and stability of people. If someone is in a destructive or distraught mind-state they will find a way to take out their frustrations on society. They will stab, blow up, or even run down others with their car.
   
   Guns have been around for a long time and it is the moral fortitude of most gun owners that prevent them from murdering others, not the fear of punishment.
   
   With that said, it is a lack of morality that is to blame here. There are many reasons for moral degradation, one of which is the glorification of violence in many forms of media.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      deleted

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      teamrnposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Agree that since we can't legislate morality or behavior, I see that a firm example must be set; home, church, school, friends, parents, coaches, When there is a goal to destroy, those bent on destruction will destroy; w/ guns or manure bombs, etc.

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      NateB11posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      teamrn, religion and other separative identifications like family with its emphasis on following and conformity are the seeds of violence. Division is violence and its illusory.

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   Craig Suitsposted 13 years ago

   150 to 200 million guys in this stupid country is what is causing the problem. If that physco only had a knife, he would have had to line everyone up and ask that they stay still while he stabbed them all one at a time. When a coward gets a gun, get out of the way.
   Automatic weapons are for special police groups and the military. They have been designed to kill as many people as they can as fast as they can. What in the hell does an American citizen need one for?
   Allow responcible people to own handguns, target, and hunting guns, kill the illegal importers, and put anyone caught with an illegal gun in Sheriff Joe's Arizona prison for 5 years. Oh and while your at it, dispan the NRA. Their lobbyists are getting Americans killed by the drove every day. Many many innocent children, law officers and anyone else that happens to get in the way.
   Go to my hub pages if you want to learn how to eliminate 100 million mostly illegal guns in this country in one years flat. It's about time don't you think? You would if one of your kids got his head blown off at a school bus stop. Don't wait untill it happens. The chances are going up by the minute.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Craig real problem is understanding the difference between the 99.5% of the good guys with guns and the .05% of the bad guys. But I like his post. It clarifies that those with problems with the 2nd Amend. almost always also have problems with the 1st

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      teamrnposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      legal or illegal guns in this country ouzis or semi automatic. This is not the time to talk politic. I live in Colorado and we grieve for the losses ov the last year. We'll work things our, but there's a time and a place. And I support the NRA!

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   junksellerposted 13 years ago

   I never really understand the argument that if not for Weapon X crazy killer guy would have just used Weapon Y. While this may be true, it does not mean that all weapons are equal in lethality. You don't see modern infantry soldiers running around with flintlock rifles for a reason. I don't see why we wouldn't want to make an effort to specifically restrict particularly lethal weapons such as semi-auto tactical rifles like the AR-15. That wouldn't really be dissimilar to the efforts to restrict particularly lethal weapons such as chemical weapons and high-explosives. That doesn't do anything to prevent crazy killer guys from going on a rampage, it does limit their effectiveness. Simultaneously, we really need to do something about crazy killer guys.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The Marines in VietNam gave the equivalent of the AR the nickname "poodle killer" because of it's low power, yet Junk declares it a "particularly lethal weapon." I don't know much about knitting but I have no compulsion to let the world know that.

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      junksellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      12 killed: 58 wounded in Aurora. 69 killed: 110 wounded in Norway. Clearly these are ineffective weapons. But they were only poodles right? Underpowered in combat does not mean underpowered against civilians.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      A .22 caliber squirrel rifle can kill someone just as dead. A standard deer hunting rifle that Uncle Bob keeps in \his closet is much more powerful than the standard .223 chambering of the AR. They fire 1 bullet at a time just like all other rifles.

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      junksellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Wow, I didn't know any of that.
      
      Big difference in ammo capacities and ROFs between hunting and tactical rifles. Hence the reason they both exist. Have you ever actually seen and/or fired an AR-15 or Mini-14? They are very nice weapons.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I've got 26 years in the military with an expert rifle rating. Yes, AR and AK style rifles have larger capacity mags and sometimes citizens need just that. We cannot limit our freedom based upon the actions of a social deviant. Where do we stop?

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      junksellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Freedom is always balanced against the competing interest of public safety. Not inciting violence vs. freedom of Speech, for instance. To me, gun registration is reasonable. As are stricter requirements for AR-15 type of weaponry.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Junk has trouble distinguishing between action (inciting something) and the state of "being." An AR rifle sitting at rest hurts no one. In the hands of a law abiding citizen it is capable of great good. But he chooses to base freedom on lawbreakers.

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      junksellerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Whatever dude. That's one insult too many to waste my time on. I'll put my vote up free and equal to yours. I have no problem with that. And I will vote to support increased gun regulations.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I prefer to consider it speaking plainly about what you really mean. If you consider that an insult to you, so be it.

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   teamrnposted 13 years ago

   This is not the time to discuss policy on gun control issues. Right now, Moms and dads are sitting around their dinner tables that have an empty chair or two. Pray for the healing that needs to happen. Both the President and Mitt Romney were right to suggest that parents, hug  their kids extra hard tonight. Give it time to heal before politics are introduced.

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      Craig Suitsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I would agree under normal circumstances however people are dying every day in this country because we're made it simple for anyone to abtain any kind of gun they wish. It's an emergency situation that need to be delt with immediatly.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Craig has  never tried to actually buy a firearm,  Let's make it illegal to murder innocent people. That will stop the "emergency situation." Craig can't explain why 40 million law abiding gun owners have to pay a price for the lawless bad guys

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      teamrnposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Craig, we do need a national dialog, but we've been having national dialogs for the better part of 100 years. Common sense: no one needs an AK-47 to defend his front lawn. If a killer wants a gun-HE'LL GET IT. We have a 2nd amendment giving righta.

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      Jack Burtonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I always thought it was the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of What Teamrn Thinks People Need. I have a hub abut Evil Black Rifles. I think it would do Tea a world of good to read it.

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   NateB11posted 13 years ago

   I think it's looking in the wrong direction to point to the tools of the crazy person instead of point to insanity and its origins. Something in our social structure, for sure, creates insanity. If you don't get to the root of the problem, what is behind it, it doesn't matter what tools you get rid of; the problem will continue to pop up. Guess what? The problem is us.

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      teamrnposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Our society causes insanity?  Maybe by creading an environment where individuals can become insane?Sounds to me like you feel you cause insanity in another person. People aren't THAT powerful. What about imbalance in brain chemistry?

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      NateB11posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The person is conditioned by the social structure and the person creates the social structure; it's not separate. Self interest, competition, divisiveness, conflict, violence, illusory ideas about ourselves, doctrine, identifications are society.

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      teamrnposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nate, do you doubt the sheer existence of mental illness, chemical imbalance? It sounds like you feel the ONLY cause for extreme behavior is societal input or lack thereof. Yes, conditioning and other influences matter greatly, but completely?

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      NateB11posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely, there is such a thing as simply, for instance, something wrong with the brain; brain damage, birth defects, etc. Certainly there is such a thing as a problem in the brain, a biological, chemical, or physical problem.

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