So who didn't see this coming?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … -coma.html
I got into an argument with someone about PC being at fault in the shootings. Looks like I was right. PC in the military, that's another thing we can thank Billy Clinton for.
Wow! The investigation is already over. That was some quick work by the FBI. :-D
well this creep won't get away with it. he will have a MILITARY trial and i hope he gets justice in the form of a firing squad.
Did you know that attempted murder is just as bad as murder? At least the law says so.
But al-Qaeda did not recruit him, he tried to get their blessing and obviously failed.
Of course, it was a horrendous crime and he should be punished for it...as he will be.
Why go to them for "a blessing"? Obviously because of what they stand for - it was in line with his sick thinking, which was fanned by the same Imam who preached to the 9/11 terrorists. Why are you being so obtuse about this?
I am not. Obviously he decided to do this...and thought he would join them after the fact. There is a difference you know.
So, you're saying that because he came around to the muslim jihad way of thinking after he joined the military that it wasn't terrorism? Or not an act of either war or treason against the US because of when he decided to act?
Yes I am... I still believe this guy snapped and did not join the army and make his way to Major just so he would do this one day.
I do believe he should get the full punishment that is coming to him. I'm certainly not trying to justify what he did.
And she will think this way despite all evidence to the contrary. Thats what good little lemmings do!
Snapped? Did the 9/11 guys "snap" too? At what point do you admit to yourself what they actually DID? It doesn't change what he did, how he justified it in his own mind, and what it's definition is. Terrorism is terrorism - and this was muslim-jihad-based.
The 9/11 guys knew exactly what they were doing and had the blessing of Al-Quida. The two are completely different things.
A blessing which he wanted. It still doesn't change what he did, and why.
He did it because he was scared of going to war. As I keep saying, definitely not justified, and it was a repugnant thing to do.
So you know why. Been talking to Hasan since he woke up have you?
Who's being snippy? You said you knew why he did it. Since I seriously doubt you've been allowed to talk to him I simply pointed out the absurdity of your statement.
He himself gave his motives in his blog and in his other actions - the biggest one being that he shot his own colleagues and fellow countrymen in uniform.
I have only heard this through the media, however in this case, I don't think they would report that aspect if it weren't true. If you have another explanation for his terrorism, I'd love to hear it. You seem to want to believe that his actions were everything and anything but. I'm very curious as to why it is so necessary for you to believe this.
They showed pages of it on CNN before the government took it down.
Maybe google still has is cached.
I'm noticing some news organizations are treading on this story carefully and others are sensationalizing it.
The media is falling all over themselves to define this as other than terrorism. It's like they're saying it is through implication and not saying it outright. Not sure yet what their motives are . . .
CNN isn't trying I know that. In some ways Fox has been more careful than CNN. Astonishing.
For myself I'd like to know what the Army investigators come up with. And frankly I find it oddly comforting that they want a military trial.
Right now the Army is saying courts-martial, but that could still change you know.
I would say he committed an act of war, or treason. That's the death penalty
Another manifestation of the attitude that let that sick dog get to this point?
Implication works better with some people; direct accusation better with others. It's all pretty much the same though.
Imply or assert there's little difference in the end result.
I just hope we can all stay calm before we start stringing up every A'Rab we see from street lights.
Why? You got plenty of street-lights in your neighborhood? Plenty of A'Rabs too?
Yeah and plenty of California losers too, its just a melting pot here, when you coming?
Grew up there. Love the people; the climate not so much.
I'm here to stay.
Oh, kinda makes my post seem mean, wasn't directed at you!
Actually I thought you said it cause you knew where I was from.
Just a little friendly poking on your part.
Hey, I was in the service. I can take some ribbing. Sure got plenty in there.
I didn't know, but I like Californians as long as they stay in California, they move here to get away from all the taxes and then try tell us how we should do things, nobody gives a shit how it was done in California!
I figure when in Texas do as the Texans do.
When in California you can take pretty much any side you like and find a lot of friends that feel the same way.
We may have a reputation for liberalism, but it's just not true. Orange County is very conservative. And both Richard Nixon and Ronald Regan came from here.
I'm pretty sure Reagan wasn't from California, transplant from somewhere else, and Nixon ain't exactly anything to brag about. And before you say anything Bush was not born in Texas!
I don't see that happening. People are a lot more aware than the media likes to portray them
It's very clear he joined the military like so many others....free education. But he wanted to get out early because he didn't believe in the wars.
But the government wouldn't let him because he owed so much for his degree.
But the government messed up by giving him orders to Afghanistan when it was clear he was against our war and sympathized with suicide bombers.
I just don't understand how the military did not see the signs when the FBI was watching him for a month or two.
The military pretty much egged him on, in my opinion.
Oh yeah, it's the military's fault this sick POS killed all those people. It's the military's fault they gave this worthless dog a valuable education and the opportunity for a worthwhile career.
How 'bout it's his fault and no one else?
Yes it is. If you have someone in your ranks (especially an officer), creating blogs that sympathize with suicide bombers and not know about it, then the military made a mistake.
He made it quite clear he was against the war in Afghanistan to his superiors but guess what? Where do his superiors send him? To Afghanistan.
They didn't want to release him early because of money.
Yes, it's the military's fault for making this dude go extreme. He wouldn't never went to that level if they would've seen all the signs. Especially a blog.
Ah but did the FBI notify the Army?
I read somewhere that Hasan wrote a letter to higher ups stating that Muslims should be released from service and treated similar to conscientious objectors.
Is that the act of a terrorist?
"Yes I am... I still believe this guy snapped and did not join the army and make his way to Major just so he would do this one day."
I also believe he didn't intend to join to work his way up the ranks to turn on his own people. He had his beliefs, and was against the war, but I don't think he just snapped. He tried to get a terror group's 'blessing.' If the guy just snapped, I doubt he'd show up at the place he did. If he was against the war, it made sense that he did the shooting in a deployment area. I'd say it was a statement if anything, he didn't snap.
There's snapping and there's insanity. One of his spiritual advisers, a Muslim by the way, told him "there's something wrong with you."
A person with mental health issues doesn't just snap. There's a buildup of perceived "wrongs" that just can't be "ignored" anymore and "must" be acted upon.
Oh yea he will be surely punished in jail especially. That is if he makes it to jail but something might happen along the way...hopefully!
No No NO UW. You're not connecting the dots. He is a Muslim, just like Obama and this whole thing was planned in the white house as a distraction to the communist takeover of our healthcare system.
I'm really getting tired of having to spell it all out for you. No wonder Canadian football sucks.
Still not cute, still not funny. What the hell is the point of comments like that? Do you think you're being clever?
What a waste of time.
lololol I like a guy who can wield satire in the right nooks and crannies.
Subtlety--like, oh, I don't know, the meanings of different words--lol, are beyond them. They do have trouble with ambiguity and complexity after all--scapegoating is just easier, damn it. Doesn't tax the gray matter.
Yes? A Muslim terrorist wanted to make contact with the most well known Muslim terrorist group, do you have a question?
Our intelligence agency is worthless. Wasn't 9/11 enough to make sure you follow EVERY lead?
And how was he allowed to stay in the military? Because they didn't want to discharge him without him paying back the government for his schooling?? Is that it Army??
I know our government is broke but that fool should've been discharged and followed like a hawk. But nooooo...can't let him go without paying back his education.
Then you try to send him to Afghanistan when you KNOW he was sympathetic to terrorist causes because the FBI was already alerted of his actions 6 months ago.
Who the hell made that decision??
They definitely blundered with this guy. They blundered with 9/11.
Granted, I'm sure they foiled many other plots against us in the U.S. but it would make me feel safer if they told us about certain plots.
Read Operation Northwoods.
It can be found in full text on a pdf through google.
Read it, and then we can discuss this overall topic's theme in new light.
Not that I believe Obama is a radical Islamic dude but I guarantee you that we have Al Queda dudes climbing the ranks of our military.
They are patient as hell and I'm sure some of them enlisted long ago just climbing and waiting.
Did you know <b>YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A U.S. CITIZEN</b> to join the U.S. military? http://www.todaysmilitary.com/faq/entra … ts#foreign
How crazy is that?
Sorry, it thought basic HTML would work in a post.
But, yeah, it just boggles my mind how you don't even need to be a U.S. citizen to join our military. Makes absolutely NO SENSE!
It does if you want to build a military that doesn't care about Americans or our Constitution.
Armies have been built like that since human race began. Look at The Romans, they were a completely non-exclusive multi-cultural society. I had a great uncle who served in the French Foreign Legion, he is about as french as starbucks. The British army has whole regiments of Ghurkas, from Nepal, and have had since the 19th century.
That said, I would want a very strict screening process on non-British born Muslims.... and would very much hope that there is one present. In fact, all muslims, since the tube bombers were British born also....
Actually it makes perfect sense. When I was in the Marines i served along with men and women from South Korea and the Dominican Republic. The military service needs willling and able people to do a job that most Americans (who benefit from the global imbalances that the military propogates) refuse to do.
I also noticed, while serving at many duty stations across the nation and on different parts of the planet, that Black, Hispanic, and Asian make up a disproportionate percentage of overall manpower within the military.....with ethnic minorities making up the majority within the most grueling of job classifications.
Those who served with me, though from foreign nations, did so honorably, and I don't believe that there is any way to justify xenophobia, which characterizes the remark to which I am responding here.
I'm sure that most of the "Blacks", "Asians" and "Hispanics" you served with were American citizens. I don't know many African Americans who are actually from Africa.
And, unfortunately, with the new world of terrorism, we need to be stricter with who joins our military. Things need to change.
We can't even watch over our own citizens, much less foreigners in our military. Makes no sense to me in this day and age.
You seem to miss my point. The people whom I mentioned from South Korea, the Dominican Republic, and elsewhere speaks to the diminished whiteness of the military....
Secondly, it is wrong to associate terrorism with foreignors solely....and quite misguided.
Also, read Operation Northwoods....then we can have a real conversation about military policies, national security, nationality, and terrorism...
I don't care about the "whiteness" of the military, as you put it. I'm talking about non-U.S. citizens. White has nothing to do with it. I don't want Russian non-U.S. citizens in our military.
We can't live with past rules. We have to change and adapt to the current times. Terrorism is our new enemy, not Russia or China. They even have their own terrorist groups after them.
We have to screen our military more than before or we'll have more of these incidents happening. Yes, this Ft. Hood dude was a U.S. citizen but his actions showed he sympathized with terrorist ideologies. Our government did not watch him as closely as they should've.
Maybe there were too busy keeping tabs on non-citizen troops who were doing suspicious stuff to worry about this other dude.
Let's cut down our worries and only enlist U.S. citizens.
I guess you don't read the papers.......military enlistment is suffering, and American citizens are not as willing to participate anymore......
Aside from ongoing economic distress and the collapse of public education, at least in California, on the home front, how does the military complex drum up the ever increasing numbers that it demands???
Supply and demand coupled to desire of the individual youth to either enlish or not......
There is a point when reality sets in...
Plus I suppose no one here knows what the School of the Americas is and what its graduates have been up to....all financed by your tax dollars.....
....I call it ignorance..
You don't read the same papers I do. Enlistment has been on an all-time high with the Air Force and Army hitting their goals in record time.
Not sure where you're getting your info.
But it's ok to recruit questionable people, according to you, just to make goals. That will surely protect us!
will it solve the problem, this is not a problem of race or whatever, or terrorism, it is a psychological problem, and all sorts of people can be affected, whether you are a US citizen or not, Many military men have traumatic experiences brought by training, field battle or inner turmoil. There was an interview yesterday in CNN and the US colonel said that there is a rise in cases of psychological problem in the military.
What better way for a terrorist to obtain the needed combat skills than to enlist in the US Military? I don't think the problem is so much the NON US citizen factor than it is relaxing rules to provide warm bodies to serve. Gang members have been joining the military for these reasons why is it so hard to accept terrorist are doing the same thing?
yes, your probably right, we dont exactly know how many of them have joined the US military already....I dont know the screening process in the military......specially for those who have tendencies to be suicidal or terroristic ones, maybe a consistent follow up is needed and they should not disregard small and initial problems when they noticed that something is wrong with a military man.
Kinda scary if you think about it, our Justice Dept is so worried about returning veterans when they possibly should be worried about current soldiers/Marines/sailors/airman
I was a rich whiteboy who did some "grueling" things in the Marine Corps, I didn't complain and most of those I served with didn't either, no matter their lot in life!
I don't think the situations are the same anymore, or that xenophobia plays a part in this. The evidence is mounting that we must be more diligent in whom we allow into our military.
Cool, does that mean I can try out? Would serving in the US military win me a green card? Wouldn't mind a bit of Miami!
Also, the Marine whom I spoke of from the Dominican Republic, for all intensive purposes, was African-American.
Do we forget that black slaves left the west African Coast bound for the Dominican Republic (Spanish colony of Hispaniola), Cuba, and the colonies that would become the United States?
When this man becomes an American citizen, which he will if he hasn't already, what "ethnicity" box would he check?
"Dominican Republic" doesn't work....... So, shut up the ignorant babble and start using critical thinking skills. Anything less is a waste of brain matter..
Why are you giving all these people excuses??? Why can't these non-citizens take the citizenship test??? If they are willing to die for the U.S., they should have no problem becoming a citizen.
End of story.
Can I give you a citizenship test and see if you pass?
Can I revoke your citizenship if you don't and give it to someone who is willing to learn?
African-Americans were serving in the military long before they were considered citizens, as did Mexicans, Japanese, and many others.....of course, what does citizen mean anyway, aside from being subject to the protections of the Constitution of the United States, right?
Why don't we have a discussion about the Dominican Republic, Mexico, South Korea, Vietnam, or the many places that American military recruits come from and see what American backed forces and industries have left for "these people".
Again....xenophobia plus ignorance equals misguided perceptions of things like terrorism.
Look at the recent settlement paid out by Shell Oil to the Ogoni in Nigeria.....
Think about where your gas dollars go....
Read the March 2006 Citigroup memo detailing why, in our American plutonomy, the price of oil will increase in the future....and then realize that "these people" is the clasification that they pass down on to you....
All this can be found easily online....and then there is Operation Northwoods.........I believe it mentions something about "developing a Cuban Communist Terror Campaign in the Miami and Washington areas" as well as other places........
How does one "develop" such a thing....especially when the publisher is the Department of Defense....
Critical thinking skills anyone?
What are you talking about? The point here is one of loyalty and how to prove it. Becoming a citizen goes a long way toward that. Nobody cares what color they are.
I don't believe that citizenship signifies loyalty at all....it is simply something touted like a status symbol....something that most Americans take for granted because they randomly happened to be born here.... Do we discriminate against those who have been given a different status based off something out of human control?
Doesn't this distrust of others work only to undermine our ability to diffuse the social, political, and economic inequalities arbitrarily set up by nationality status, and even exacerbate discontent against America??
And all we will contine to say to places like the Dominican Republic and elsewhere is "we will establish ourselves in your nation, and benefit from your human and natural resources, and cut off from you a path to move out of the status that we have helped create......I guess if you're from the Dominican Republic you might as well work really hard at baseball....then your citizenship won't matter.....
Loyalty is found through the willingness to sacrifice self for a larger idea.....citizenship does not establish that.....there are enough of my fellow legal, documented Americans who have been found to be otherwise....history speaks to this far more than I can.
How many times do I need to say this...THE RULES NEED TO CHANGE so quit bringing up the past dude!
Yes, great we allowed non-citizens in during the past. Great!
But guess what? Times need to change.
Quit bringing up past military practices. I'm not arguing that dude.
And yes I can pass a citizenship test because I helped my friend pass his and studied with him for weeks. Yes it's hard but who cares??? I want it to be hard. So you must be implying that it's easier to pass the military tests than a citizenship test.
Geez dude...keep bringing the excuses to allow non-citizens in the military. What is so wrong with them being citizens???
You know that you are talking about a reinstatement of the draft don't you?
How? All the branches exceed their goals way early this year. And if they didn't and the draft needed to be started again, then so be it.
No one should be scared to defend this country that are U.S. citizens.
Yo. Dude! I just asked a question. Simmer down.
That's why the quotas were filled with no foreign nationals right?
I'm not talking about the past....you just fail to see the present...and I feel for you...really.
The School of the Americas is not the past....
Shell Oil global terrorism subsidized by American consumers and supported by American favoritism is not the past.....it is ongoing..
I think more people here should enlist and serve....and then speak.
I have watched, while in the Marines, pressures either from deployments, abuse from within from fellow servicemen, or stressors dealing with relationships represent itself in a variety of ways.....
The military, also from my personal experience....especially in classified jobs, like I had, take a very negative attitude towards seeking mental health assistance.
Thusly, if the military had done the right thing, which was to let this man leave the service and settle his education related debts another way, this event would have never happened.
What country one comes from, what religion he or she has, or what citizenship is held is irrelevant.
And there is another part of this issue that completely goes unnoticed....of course because most of those talking have never been in the military, and therefore have no clue.
Every base I ever served on had foreign military men stationed there.....In my intel unit we had an Australian officer working with us.
I have met jet pilots from Egypt....the vigorous international training that takes place on each base across the nation enables people....military trained people wearing the uniform of other nations, to work and live on American bases....
So....if we can't trust an American soldier in uniform.....should we ban all international personnel from U.S. bases?
They could be a threat, right? Especially if their Muslim?
The logic of the "foreigners out" camp here is ridiculous....and the religous intolerance that is boiling under the surface in this whole thread is troubling.
Why, do you think it's difficult? The difficult part is completing the mountains of paperwork and slogging through the massive, maddening bureaucracy.
So you think maybe this was a staged act of terrorism? You think that the suspect would still be alive if this was the case? I think your "critical thinking" skills have done you a disservice!
Actually, being "staged" is probably the only "reason" he is
Well, after decreasing their enlistment goals for the year, I do believe that the Army will show a filled quota....
But profiteering of economic loss on the home front is nothing to be proud of.
This is what happens when you have non-U.S. citizens in our military.....they don't want to fight against their people when the U.S. goes to war with their people. You know why? Because they are loyal to the country of their citizenship!
My dad's friend who was in the U.S. Army was Serbian and remember when we sent troops to protect Croatia? Guess what happened? He got issued orders to defend Croatia!
The military threatened to kick him out if he didn't go and guess what? He didn't. He got to keep his education and everything. Taxpayers paid and he's not even a U.S. citizen.
This is a real-life scenario.
Hasan was born in Virginia. Last time I checked Virginia is in the United States.
This is one of the many things that makes this so disturbing.
Hasan is an educated medical doctor with a degree in psychiatry. He's a U.S. citizen...by birth. He's a Major in the Army with most of his formal education in the military.
This is a betrayal on so many levels it's hard to comprehend.
Geez dude, I am talking about non-U.S. citizens. I never said anything about Hasan not being a citizen.
My argument has been about non-U.S. citizens in our military. Read my posts please.
We aren't talking about Hasan anymore? Sorry, I lost track.
Others are...I'm talking about non-U.S. citizens in the U.S. military. I'm on the side with not allowing them anymore.
Yes, only American citizens should die for your country...
Well...I was just commenting on what he said...not off topic at all
Are there some Canadians that want to die for America? I believe in everyone's right to die for what they believe, especially terrorists!
It is your sarcasm that is off-topic. Your desire for "multi-culturalism" in the US military and it's PC leanings are seriously misguided in light of the current events.
You better alert the Pentagon then. I don't think they've changed plans to continue to recruit Muslim/Americans and native language speakers.
we never really know if he snapped or not, in other countries military suicide is high, but not like this one, they rather just kill themselves not involving others, we dont really know what is going on in his mind, one is certain, there is flaw in hiring US military men? dont see this happening in any other countries?
"Hasan is an educated medical doctor with a degree in psychiatry. He's a U.S. citizen...by birth. He's a Major in the Army with most of his formal education in the military."
You forgot Muslim terrorist!
So you say. I'll wait for the military analysis.
But don't you think the military will come to the conclusion that makes them look good and not negligent?
In this particular case they might. Usually, they are damned honest, but when there's this much political liability at stake who knows. I keep thinking about My Lai.
Anyway, sorry to get off topic again but I'm off to have some sushi.
Maybe they are trying to wait until all the facts are in before they decide.
Anyway, I'm definitely off now.
I think if one watches enough news from a number of perspectives one can actually weed out the crap and get a good handle on what's known. But it can sure take up a lot of time.
Amazing isn't it....so difficult to find the truth. We need Walter back!LOL Now there was a communist! However he was trusted! Why? Journalistic integrity...kept his personal beliefs out of his reporting.
Trust isn't a word I would ever use whilst discussing the media . . . but discerning why they're saying what they do can be a fun little exercise
Read the reports. This has been considered before it happened. Senate and DOD investigations have been done that stated "lone wolf" members of the military could be radicalized. The research and monitoring has been going on since 9/11. It would appear we got ourselves a lone wolf jihadist. This guy was doing research on GWOT and the effects on American Muslim soldiers. I think he was swayed over to jihadist/terrorist. I'm pretty darn sure that is going to be the Army's official response. Is he a "terrorist/jihadist" I think in his mind and America's popular definition...yes. Mark my words... Lets review.
He started out a good guy. 9/11 came and went and he begain to question, he got hung up on the wrong ideology and presto, we got ourselves a "lone wolf jihadist"
This "link" to Al-Qaeda is tenuous at best. Let's wait for the evidence one way or the other before jumping to conclusions. People like some of these posters are so paranoid that they're starting to see terrorist behind every tree and rosebush. And Obama for the record, Obama is NOT a Muslim...what is with you people and the conspiracy theories and paranoid delusions?
He shouted Allahu Akbar as he started shooting. Do you know of any other group other than Islamic religious fundamentalists who use that particular battle cry? He was overheard praising various suicide attacks and vocal about his disappointment that the President hasn't reduced troop levels overseas. It's not jumping to conclusions but going where the facts lead us.
Why is it that so many people are afraid we're going to go on a Rosewood-style rampage because of this? If there was any time in history that we would have done such a thing, don't you think 9/11 would have been that day, 9/12 at the latest. I think you underestimate most Americans when you think they can't handle things like this. We can. We've faced these sorts of threats before and have overcome them. Remarkably with more to fear now than we did in the dark days of WW II, we still haven't sunk as low as our forefathers did then and put these people into interment camps.
I think some people are afraid of the truth. Afraid of what the truth could lead to....widespread, indiscriminant attacks on Muslim’s in America. I think America by and large is bigger than that. Do I think that some American's may act out? Absolutely! I believe that will happen no matter what the truth regarding these events at Ft Hood turns out to be. Reckless violence begets reckless violence. It’s a fact, a part of human nature, and there is no getting away from it. Some people will always respond inappropriately, just make sure your not one of them. It's about personal responsibility. What have we come to in America when telling the truth is iresponsible because some one may react irationally?
With some of the sentiment in here it is will truly take an amazing act of justice to even approach the shooters motive. This is nothing new as we have tried a lot of cases in the media. It feeds Americas need for instant gratification.
Your statements are filled with irony as you write them on the internet.
The use of irony is unintentional I assure you. I try to look at the two sides of the argument and decipher the sentiment and respond to it. I really do try to not be deceptive but sometimes sarcasm is the result.
I know it. Its frustrating. I didn't mention it to be argumentative.
I know this to be the case with you. I enjoy your cool headed posts and sometimes they are the only thing that snaps the topic back into relativity again. Keep on truckin'
by Raymond D Choiniere 9 years ago
Hey everyone,Check this out?The insurance companies who insured the Twin Towers has filed a lawsuit against Al-Qaeda and been awared $9.3 Billion.http://news.yahoo.com/ny-judge-al-qaida … 08127.html
by Deforest 7 years ago
forthcoming terrorist strike from our government in the name of Al-Qaida in any of our cities? The fact that the threat comes from the Saudi peninsula and that the Saudi house is our friend, what is the probability for a terrorist act to happen with their complicity on our soil? Remember Sept11, it...
by TimTurner 11 years ago
Most of you know I am very critical of Obama but it looks like he is going to send about 20,000 to 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan which is what needs to be done. At least, that is the rumor on the street.For all of you who support Obama, I'm assuming you will be against this...
by Deforest 7 years ago
What a joke! We've been fed lies over and over.Pierre-Henry Bunel, former French military intelligence quoted "The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public...
by Mohideen Basha 12 years ago
Stamping out Al Qaeda "once and for all" and capturing or killing its elusive leader Osama bin Laden would be a "top priority" for the next US Government.,President elect Barak Obama has said.OK. Obama vs Osama - in this game who is going to win.?
by Reality Bytes 9 years ago
Sovereign citizens are a loosely organized group of people who claim they are not subject to government laws...........from the linkhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/1 … lnk2|64172I have been a Freeman On The Land for many years, I do not condone violence in any way. Yet the govt...
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