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US Government

  1. profile image48
    We Conservativesposted 7 years ago

    *  The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broke.
        * Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke.
        * Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get it right and it is broke.
        * War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.
        * Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are broke.
        * Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broke.
        * The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

    You have FAILED in every "government service" you have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars.
    AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??

    1. MikeNV profile image81
      MikeNVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      40,000 new laws went on the books today across the United States. Each year more and more freedoms demolished by Government.

      Core functions of Government went by the way side so long ago that none of use were even born.

      Now each year the Government looks for more ways to create more programs. When times are tough these programs do not go by the wayside, the Government looks for more ways to TAX, then creates more programs.

      Congress gave themselves a 6% Raise this year.

      At the core is the flawed and illegal Fractional Reserve Banking system put into play by the "Invisible Government" who pulls the strings. For those who don't understand the "Invisible Government" ... it's the Wealthy Secretive Bankers that control the Federal Reserve / Central Banks of the World and hide behind corporate privacy laws as they push forth their own agenda unencumbered by laws. They simply by the Politicians they need on either side of the fence.

      Being conservative means nothing because the Real Conservatives can NOT get elected.

      Both parties in the United States are paid for by the Banking Elite who runs the government. These people are "Above the Law".  They do anything they want.

      Exxon paid NONE of their damages for the Exxon Valdez spill. Thank You Justice Souter.

      Souter also sided with the Government in 2005 in their quest to have complete autonomy with regards to Eminent Domain. The Federal Government can take your land for any reason now.  The Guise is "Economic Development".

      George W. Bush appointed Souter.  How conservative is that?

      People need to wake up and quit supporting a party ideology.  People need to support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

      The Federal Reserve must go, and the Invisible Government will fall by the wayside when it does... "if" we can elect people that support the Constitution of the United States of America.

      And Barak Obama... a law professor who taught constitutional law is NOT supporting the Constitution.

      His role in the United Nations is clear evidence.  Obama is the Banker's Puppet.

      Not surprisingly most people do not know that the land the United Nations was built on in NY was donated by the Rockefeller Family.  The very people who pushed and shoved and swindled the public until the Federal Reserve Law of 1913 was passed.

      Rockefellers are part of the "Invisible Government" and the Bilderberg Group that has purchased Obama lock, stock, and barrel.

      Connect the dots and the answers all lead to the same place.  Hidden Secretive Wealthy Banking Elite calling all the shots.

    2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      What a brilliant post!  I can't believe you have only 1 follower and have written only 1 hub.  It must be a conspiracy.

      1. Mitch Rapp profile image60
        Mitch Rappposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        roll

      2. profile image48
        We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I take it you didn't like my hub? Can you point to a government program that is operating in the black?

    3. profile image0
      Poppa Bluesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      As you have illustrated, the government does nothing well! Therefore government should be made as small as possible. It's not fair to blame voters for the state of affairs, when it is those that are elected that make the rules for the passage of laws and for consequent elections securing the positions of incumbents and establishing rules for debate and the passage of bills that serves only the party in power and not the will of the people.
      The current health bills are the perfect illustration of this with polls showing the majority of Americans against the proposal and congress passing the bill anyway. Indeed, even ignoring the fact that congress lacks the constitutional authority to pass such a bill! It's an outrage and the American people aren't going to stand for it any longer! Change is indeed coming, and not the socialist change the Obama promised, but a new revolution to return freedom to the people!

    4. sooner than later profile image56
      sooner than laterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You forgot Amtrack, Border Patrol and many many other fine areas that our Government is failing.

    5. Brett Winn profile image87
      Brett Winnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You forgot the public education system! LOL!  Great points!

      1. mdburks profile image58
        mdburksposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Thank you Brett

    6. Mikel G Roberts profile image82
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this
    7. Pr0metheus profile image60
      Pr0metheusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      So, your argument for not fixing the health care system is that everything is "broken"?  If you really wanted to make this argument you'd have to find an instance where these programs were allowed to execute a plan without being hindered by opposition (right wingers), or even their own party.

      We, as americans are in an old pinto that is breaking down (health care).  You're argument is that we should just keep riding this old car until it explodes and kills us all instead of going and getting a new one.  I'm not saying government run health care is in order, but some change is needed.  If you don't see that, then you're... well, a moron.

      1. AdsenseStrategies profile image74
        AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        WeConservative is right. All these organizations should be run by large corporations. They are far more likely to serve the average person, look out for the average American, and not rip the small-man off.

      2. profile image48
        We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        No, thats not my argument at all. My post is pretty straight forward and easy to understand, government has never run anything successfully so what makes anyone think this will be any different. No offense but you don't seem to be able to read or at least comprehend!

        1. Pr0metheus profile image60
          Pr0metheusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Its called reading between the lines.  Thanks for the insult though, however dimwitted it was.

          Stop arguing what shouldn't happen and start trying to find a solution, you might actually help out.  These "this is the wrong way" arguments are kind of obnoxious and just work to halt reform.

          @Adsense, I agree.  I don't think government run health care is the way to go.  It is pointless to just point out what isn't going to work though.  We need to work towards a solution.

          1. profile image48
            We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You are accusing me of insulting you? adsense is more right than he is wrong, the majority of private business in this country are not corrupt, the majority did not take bailout money because they were greedy and screwed their customers! Private industry can do anything and do it cheaper than the federal government.

            1. Pr0metheus profile image60
              Pr0metheusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Yes.

              Private industry can do things cheaper than the government, but that is NOT the same as serving the average man.

              @adsense again... I figured you were being sarcastic.  There needs to be a sarcasm tag...

              1. profile image48
                We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                It was not my intention to insult, but seeing as you didn't comprehend adsense's post I may be correct.

                Businesses in the US serve the average man day in and day out, government shackles the average man day in and day out.

                Have a nice day

                1. Pr0metheus profile image60
                  Pr0metheusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL, resorting to insults again.  How did I not comprehend adsenses post?  That makes no sense.  Come up with some good arguments or go home.

                  Actually, private businesses running rampant serve as the shackles.  Banking industry?  Private - screwing us over.  Prison systems?  Private - screwing us over. Businesses serve THEIR INVESTORS day in and day out.  Take an economics class, man.  Stop making claims without proof.

                  Wayne, sounds like a start to me.  Whats going to replace health care for those that currently have that HMO?

                  1. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
                    Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Cash money. Once the prices get down to a reasonable amount (like they used to be prior to HMO) normal procedures can be paid for out of pocket. The only reason you should need insurance is for legitimate emergencies.

            2. rhamson profile image76
              rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              I don't think it is a question of corrupt behavior but of profits.  The way HMO's make their money is by not paying out dividends.  What is in the way of a moral dilemma such as denying benefits for profits when it comes to the bottom line for a corporate spreadsheet.

              If it was to change to anything in the private sector for healthcare insurance it would have to be a closely monitored non-profit organization.  This would at least take the denial of benefits as a means to bolster corporate profits for the private HMO's.

          2. AdsenseStrategies profile image74
            AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I was being totally sarcastic

          3. Springboard profile image80
            Springboardposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Prometheus; I would only point out that republicans DID offer MANY solutions throughout the health care debate. None of them were put in the bills. None of them were really discussed on the house floor. And the dems all but closed the doors and didn't let the republicans to debate the finished product.

            I'm not saying they were the RIGHT solutions, but to suggest that none were offered is false.

            1. Pr0metheus profile image60
              Pr0metheusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              I wasn't directing that comment at republicans in general.  I was directing that at We Conservatives and this post.

              Conservatives and Liberals alike are loony, and should not be allowed to control government.  If either side gains ultimate control we end up with a sh1t storm (You get to vote for Stalin or Hitler for our next president!).  Balance is the key in everything.

              Honestly, I don't think either side is doing it right.  I think America as a country is screwed.  Greed is running rampant, and measures have been put in place to keep citizens in virtual slavery.  Big changes need to happen.

    8. profile image0
      cosetteposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      you know...you could always leave and start your own country.

      1. profile image48
        We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Is that a liberals version of "love it or leave it?

        1. profile image0
          cosetteposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          why do you assume i am a "liberal"?

          1. profile image48
            We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Because a conservative would be as outraged as I am at a government who has done what this government has, a liberal would say "you know...you could always leave and start your own country."  It is no assumption!

  2. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    A question: Have you voted recently?

    1. profile image48
      We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yes

  3. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Then you, as well as myself, have contributed to the problem. It is that simple. Whatever side of the Aisle you subscribe to is irrelevent. The problem is with the corruption of Capitalism and Big Business interests meddling in the Government. Elephants and Donkeys aren't the ones in the driver's seat.

    1. profile image48
      We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Have a good day!

  4. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    I am having one, thank you. I suspect then that this conversation is over?

    1. profile image48
      We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I think its best, capitalism is not the problem with corrupt men, the corruption would exist in any system.

  5. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Yes, but the system of which you speak is the American Government, is it not? I merely state that Democrats and Republicans alike are just instruments of very powerful business and political lobbies. That is a fact.

    1. profile image48
      We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      They are instruments of their own greed, the greed existed before they were elected. Greed exists in every political and economic system in the world not just capitalism!

      1. Marquis profile image79
        Marquisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Not all of them. Even though I believe more of what conservatives stand for than I do liberals. That is when it comes to money and the spending of that.

  6. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    True. I didn't say Capitalism was to blame; merely the corruption of it. I do not argue your point of greed either, rather I agree. But, personal special interests override the common good of the nation's population. It is the dynamic of corrupt politicians and the powerful lobbies that undermines the very basis of Democracy. It strips the people of the very right that was given to them by the Constitution. These Politicians were elected by us to represent we the people, not the Big Businesses. Presidents Obama and Bush contributed their part but the diseased Body Politic carried the weight of the transgressions brought about against any real progress.

    1. Hmrjmr1 profile image82
      Hmrjmr1posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      an apt analysis but see no solution on either of your answers Denno and we concerv. What do you propose?

    2. SparklingJewel profile image76
      SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      everyone has played their part...the government started doing wrong and the citizens allowed it to continue by not speaking up.

      businesses, corporations and organizations got bottomline greed
      and citizens allowed it to continue by not speaking up.

      the US Constitution has been blatantly abused and forgotten and the citizens allowed it to continue by not speaking up.

      all sides, all people, all businesses, all governments are responsible for what we have...

      who is going to stand up and not allow these corruptions of our country and constitution?

      I AM !!!!

      1. profile image0
        Denno66posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        And THAT'S what this country needs. WE THE PEOPLE!!!

        1. Hmrjmr1 profile image82
          Hmrjmr1posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          concur and very stirring now please elaborate on your plan

          1. SparklingJewel profile image76
            SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this
          2. SparklingJewel profile image76
            SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            check out www.givemeliberty.org  and see what has recently been happening.

            1. Hmrjmr1 profile image82
              Hmrjmr1posted 7 years agoin reply to this

              I have perused the web site I do not see a constitutional plan for resolving the issues of Politicians not working for the people. I do not think a fundamental need to change the federal reserve system is required nor even desirable. There is no individual or collective profit in the system and it most recently avoided through action a national depression. You'll need to come up with more than the tired old bankers rule everything philosophy to convince me or for that matter most independent voters

              1. SparklingJewel profile image76
                SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                read everything...see the 'big picture' of actions they have taken through the years...all strictly by the constitution...

                read the Articles of Freedom in it's entirety...

                it is not possible to peruse the site and get the full story of what is happening...its up to the people to take action and get serious

    3. JYOTI KOTHARI profile image69
      JYOTI KOTHARIposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      @Denno66
      You are right my brother. However, common American citizens are also responsible for the same. They do not want to learn from the past experiences. It seems that they not even care for their own financial interests.

      I have written many hubs about financial problem and economic crisis of America even before the banks collapsed. I have even warned of collapsing banks long before it actually happened.
      But to my utter surprise I had lesser traffic in those serious hubs.

      Top searched words in the internet were about funny news, gossips and entertainment. Poll in my hubs suggest that Americans are not financially intelligent. Polls also suggest that they have to change their habits.

      It is better to be financially intelligent or at least financially educated. Otherwise politicians and business tycoons will get advantage of ignorance of common Americans.

      Think! Think! Think again and again. US economy can not run on debts for ever.

      Thanks,
      Jyoti Kothari

      1. rhamson profile image76
        rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I think your characterization has some merit and Americans are to blame for the way they trust their government.  But the truth of the matter is that plain Americans have no control over their government and the politicians know it.  We elect them with promises to clean things up only to find the elected official becomes further entrenched in the mess and makes it worse.

        The problem with America and its' politics is the greed and lack of moral character to stand up to it.  Many are opportunists and play right into an easy score despite the ramifications.

        Fix Congress and you take a large step to fix America.

  7. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    To be honest, Hmrjmr, only mass grassroots campaigning by the people and not Special Interests is the only solution I could venture. But, the inertia against the established Parties is formidable a best.

    1. Hmrjmr1 profile image82
      Hmrjmr1posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Tea party folks have potential not sure how that will work out though

      1. Springboard profile image80
        Springboardposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        It always comes down to viability when one talks of any third party movement. Though this one does seem to have some legs. I think the current GOP is lacking in leadership. I think we've abandoned much of the GOP conservatism. I think Bush definitely hurt the party and created too much more big government.

        Barack is a disaster to be sure as well. And I'm not saying that just because he also happens to be a democrat and I lean right.

        The interesting aspect of the current third party (of which the Tea Party seems the strongest) is that its largely conservative. Even more conservative than the current GOP leadership, and so I could actually see it as a possibility that some republicans could lean toward the Tea Party, or even convert. The independent vote, which is undeniably what ultimately picks our president, is leaning to the right at present. Whether they decide that the GOP or the third party right is THE right one to vote is in question.

        My prediction is that republicans will win the House and Senate in 2010. I think 2014 will see either a republican or a third party, maybe even an independent in the White House. I think the democrats have sealed their fate at least for now and Barack will have a difficult time winning a 2nd term.

        1. Springboard profile image80
          Springboardposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Just needed to correct myself here. The 2012 presidential election is what I was referring to—2014 is of course when the health care bill would take effect. Yikes, and I think I've done that twice. smile Anyway, I'm outta the way to continue in your debate.

  8. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    One walks a fine line with this, however. A credible candidate with enough votes to get on the ballot, talented individuals for a cabinet is a good start. A massive campaign to collect funds for said candidate. Even if that were possible on the city and state levels, the federal level could be a bit tougher. Once that happens, they will have to remain relatively docile until their numbers could pull any weight. Then, the sharks, who are waiting in the wings, pounce.

    1. SparklingJewel profile image76
      SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      are you responding to my link to givemeliberty?

      there is more going on than candidates rising up to take over where others have failed the constitution.

      read the "Articles of Freedom"...it is a 'redress of grievances' to the current government to be responded to...if not...than there are legal constitutional consequences that the citizens can take action on

  9. mikelong profile image73
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    I think this is an important issue and topic....


    I believe that we need to live in a system reflecting balance...

    Capitalism and Socialism can be melded together.

    While there are private auto insurance companies for those who can afford it, there also insurance supplied by the government to make sure that people who are poor or who have gotten their driving record tarnished have access to traveling for themselves....because our society has ensured that we must...

    There is also the loophole for the wealthy person who can put 30 thousand dollars in the bank in an account designated for auto insurance....this person doesn't even buy insurance or pay any premiums....money saved (the rich get richer).


    Medical should be the same way....

    I have the VA....so I am completely free, but should that only be for military veterans?

    You don't have to wear a uniform or work for the government to struggle for America.....

    I'm not saying that "free" is the answer....

    But why should one group be able to dominate a forum?

    Why are we afraid of fusing ideas together? (especially when we are, and have been, doing it for a long time).

    1. swquarles profile image60
      swquarlesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Well put, mikelong. Capitalism and Socialism need to be melded together to achieve some kind of balance within our society. Throughout history, both of those systems have been problematic and sometimes detrimental to a population.
      Capitalism benefits the corporate empires and Socialism aims to overthrow those empires, but when it comes down to it, one cannot survive without the other.

      1. SparklingJewel profile image76
        SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        giving through small charities is better than providing through large government systems. govt. systems become socialistic because they can't provide the individualized needs because all the money is spent on keeping a big bureacratic system running...the individual becomes a number instead of a person

    2. XtineTheWriter profile image61
      XtineTheWriterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      This US veteran is hoping that real "change we can believe in" will surface in the next election.

      1. profile image0
        A Texanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Oooohrah!

  10. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    It is a climate of fear that keeps alot of people in check.

    1. SparklingJewel profile image76
      SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      this liberty action already has over 7 million on record ready to sign the 'redress'

      mass action is the answer

  11. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    I clicked onto this, I had no idea what was going on in my own backyard! This bears a closer look! big_smile

    1. SparklingJewel profile image76
      SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      you clicked on www.givemeliberty.org  ?

      1. profile image0
        Denno66posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, I did. This is some great stuff! big_smile

        1. SparklingJewel profile image76
          SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          pass it forward...get the word out   smile

  12. TMMason profile image71
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    Nope. They cannot handle it, nor anything else they take over, or create.

  13. aware profile image70
    awareposted 7 years ago

    i am america . not my goverment

    1. SparklingJewel profile image76
      SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      that is great smile so what does that mean to you?

      1. aware profile image70
        awareposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        it means  beware to all who wish war against the us government . for its not them  they will face . its us the American people that will meet them . here still biger than our goverment here .

  14. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    What are your thoughts Hmrjmr?

    1. Hmrjmr1 profile image82
      Hmrjmr1posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I can honestly say I still do not see an answer. I wish I had one beyond the only thing I know how to do is vote independently and at every meeting, in every forum continue to hold my representative accountable for their actions.
      I think the Tea Party movement is growing at grass roots and rapidly organizing. They have many good ideas on these issues but some that I can not subscribe to as well. They are a little too quick on the conspiratorial gov theories for my taste. If the government and the Bankers can't run their own shops how the hell have they been able to manage this conspiracy since 1910, just doesn't jive with the known facts.
      I continue to look for an appropriate answer here and across the web and all other media.

      1. Hmrjmr1 profile image82
        Hmrjmr1posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        one other note here if you study economic history you would understand the necessity of the Fed. The late 1800's and early 1900's were fraught with Bank runs recessions and depressions. While the monetary supply was unregulated and controlled by Wall Street. Some of the hardest times this nation has ever faced were during that time period.

      2. Danny R Hand profile image60
        Danny R Handposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        We could START with a constitutional amendment which requires our body of government to erase the national debt within 20 years. NOT THE DEFECIT! THE DEBT!!! And back it up with penalties of strict, ENFORCED, criminal prosecution for conspiracy to commit treason if the politians avoid, resist, or ignore the LAW. This would only be a begining, and many would say it's to radical. Considering the number of problems this country faces, and the numerous factions fighting any type of reform, I suggest radicalism is exactly what is needed. AND I strongly believe our forefathers would concur.

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I agree that something like that should be done but you would be asking the "Slime on the Hill" to do something that is against their own interests and that of the lobbyists.

          We have to circumvent their ability to navigate and legislate the amendment to a nothing bill as they always do.  I think referendum is the only way to get around their meddling.

  15. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Well, I think that the power needs to go back to the people; how that can be done safely is another matter altogether. Abuse is always a heartbeat away, the power base needs to diffuse enough to avoid corruption, but strong enough to actually get anything done.

    1. Hmrjmr1 profile image82
      Hmrjmr1posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      concur continue to seek it out! Hooah!

      1. SparklingJewel profile image76
        SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Guys...read the "Articles of Freedom"   it does have answers to the problems...only by mass NONVIOLENT action and clear communication can the problems be solved

  16. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Transparency is the most elusive of all of the goals unfortunately.

  17. profile image0
    Madame Xposted 7 years ago

    "It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonoured by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money;

    Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

    Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lord’s temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves become the greatest grievance. Your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse this Augean stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous proceedings in this House; and which by God’s help, and the strength he has given me, I am now come to do;

    I command ye therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place; go, get you out! Make haste! Ye venal slaves be gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there (Parliamentary Staff), and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!"

    Oliver Cromwell, commanding the English parliment to disolve - April 20, 1653

    Doesn't seem like much has changed, does it?

    1. SparklingJewel profile image76
      SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      wow! what a great quote...thanks for posting it...

      yes, sad to say, humanities ill gotten gains still continue to this day  hmm

  18. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Sadly, no.

  19. Presigo profile image58
    Presigoposted 7 years ago

    I like to hear the spirit of most comments on this thread.  It is we the people and we the people can change the way business is done in D.C.  Things have gotten out of control we have become too dependant on the government.  Both parties have added programs and it is time to put good people in office who represent those that voted them in, no more special interests

  20. rhamson profile image76
    rhamsonposted 7 years ago

    I think we have to revisit the power of the referendum vote as a step in the right direction.  It has had the power of the peoples desires made felt on crooked politics and overridden many bad legislative decisions that were not constitutional.  This could be done on a grass roots basis which could also gather support by the politicians clambering to save their jobs.

    Even in this corrupt version of democracy we live in there could be a way to use the system rather than letting the government use us.

  21. Danny R Hand profile image60
    Danny R Handposted 7 years ago

    I agree 100%, but how do we convince the "SLIME" to put the matter to a referendum vote? They would resist that with all of their power. And they DO have alot of power. Many people resist this, and some would call me crazy, but The FBI, state and local police ARE their A in the hole. Our government is corrupt, but like it or not, the law of the land, is a nice way of saying police state.

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Although it is not possible in all states there is a way to begin the process.  The referendum allows issues and legislation to be introduced without your representative interfering.  I imagine smaller political groups can help but I believe signatures are what is needed in most cases to get it in a ballot form.

      http://www.ehow.com/how_16374_start-pet … ation.html

  22. profile image48
    We Conservativesposted 7 years ago

    This is a very interesting conversation. Have any of you considered joining the "slime" on the hill to effect the change from within?

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Too many forces at play to make any difference.  You would have to become as them to gather any support and when you would try to make the change needed you would be slandered for being one of them and thrown to the side.

      We need the people to institute this and it has to be bi-partisan to negate the politics the "Slime" would try to engage.

      1. profile image48
        We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        You may be correct however that old adage of the squeaky wheel gets the grease comes to mind. It has served Jesse Jackson well for years, an elected official who is angry about the 'business as usual' attitude can certainly gather a media crowd, how can the "slime" prevent that?

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I don't know that Jesse Jackson is a good example as he has a whole lot of baggage that can be picked at by the opposition.  I think you have to think on terms such as grass root understandings and ultimate objectives rather than the individuals that fall for the creature comforts of power.

          I think the constitution should be part of the rallying cry and efforts to re-institute it as the objective.

    2. Danny R Hand profile image60
      Danny R Handposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the suggestion, but a recovering alcohol and drug addict with a felony conviction, a 20 year old mistake, I would be morrally and publically crucified by political parties and the press. No thanks.

      1. profile image48
        We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        It never seemed to hurt Ted Kennedy, I get the point.

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          But who has Kennedy money that would join such a moral cause?

          1. Danny R Hand profile image60
            Danny R Handposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Not me! Have the money that is. Hehe

  23. Danny R Hand profile image60
    Danny R Handposted 7 years ago

    I like what I'm hearing from you, and agree with your reasoning. However, although I'm not yet comfortable with a bloody revolt (LOL), I have become quite cynical after having taken a good look at the majority of our social culture. Finding the people who are intelligent enough to see through 'party doctrine', and not so self absorbed that they even care enough to learn about the problems, much less give their time to it, could be quite a difficult thing to acomplish.

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The apathy is what has enabled the "Slime" to control the vote for many years now. I understand your frustration and the tendency is to see it as what can I do to make a difference?  The short answer is nothing and the more difficult answer is something.  The only thing we can do is talk to each other outside of politics and relate on a direction.  Some people will fall away as they can't divorce themselves from personal agendas but a spirit such as the founding fathers has to take over and lead us at some point.  Remember 5% of the population controls 95% of the wealth,  But 100% of the people control the vote.  It is our only weapon they have left us.

  24. profile image48
    We Conservativesposted 7 years ago

    I think you miss the point about Jackson, he hasn't had anything new to say for twenty years, but he always has an outlet for saying it.

    I will bow out of the discussion and just read the comments.

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think the point I make is that Jackson would polarize the issue and not garner enough support to enact referendums for changing out the "Slime". I know that leading by commitee is the worst way to run anything but there does need to be some oversight of anyone who rallies the cause.

  25. Danny R Hand profile image60
    Danny R Handposted 7 years ago

    Rhamson, I concur, The Constitution is our only real weapon. It is the foundation of law in our country.

    1. SparklingJewel profile image76
      SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Read the "Articles of Freedom" at www.givemeliberty.org

      the whole premise of action is based directly on what the Constitution says to do when government is out of control

      it defines actions possible to take for government, for states for citizens...the Articles are a great piece of work to consider getting behind for action

      1. rhamson profile image76
        rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I guess this is a beginning but the religious element may restrict it before it can gain any momentum.

        1. SparklingJewel profile image76
          SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          most of the people involved are the Christian religious element...or did you mean that the Christian religious element concepts, not the people, will hinder the momentum? explain what you mean, please.

          1. rhamson profile image76
            rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            The task at hand is changing bad and corrupt government practices.  This is a legal aspect and needs to be addressed in a legal way.  Inclusion of the christian element either being professed as a believer or christian priciples bleeds into one fuzzy element and adds confusion as well as a distraction from the cause. IMHO.

            1. SparklingJewel profile image76
              SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              the Articles of Freedom are for everyone interested in bringing Constitutional Laws back to where they belong in our government...what is more legal than following constitutional laws????
              just because it appears to me that those that started this are Christian...may not be so...but they definitely are believers, like the Founding Fathers, of Divine Providence's hand in the US.

              Read the Articles of Freedom,then we can have a discussion about what is, instead of what you think it is smile

              1. rhamson profile image76
                rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                I read a good deal of it and was taken aback by the religious element as I stated.  I feel that a great number of people would have the same take.  This is a flaw that would need to be corrected in order for some of the very good ideas they have could happen.

                1. SparklingJewel profile image76
                  SparklingJewelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  yes, they need to go back and reword the section on the "God" stuff...but weren't they only "strongly suggesting" asking God for guidance...I don't recall anything but I got a twinge while reading that part(like it wasn't quite right how they said it)...but I am not suggesting taking the God stuff out, because that is the basis for the original Constitutional ideals...it's how to say it where it is understood for what is meant, not what some perceive

  26. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Bashing Uncle Teddy again? big_smile

  27. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Do WE not have the power to reverse these things?

    1. sooner than later profile image56
      sooner than laterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      It is too late.

      1. profile image0
        Denno66posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        No, it is not.

        1. sooner than later profile image56
          sooner than laterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you will see the US become a third world country in your lifetime. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just being honest.

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
            Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            That will happen before Dec 22, 2012?

          2. rhamson profile image76
            rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I believe we are just short of this happening.  The transfer of the money from the middle class to the very wealthy is almost complete.  There will be two classes, the very rich and the poor.  America still thinks the breaks to the rich are going to turn it around and save us.  This has been a very clever deception.

            1. sooner than later profile image56
              sooner than laterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Did we ever find out what happened to the 7 + trillion dollars that came up missing in the bail out distrabution? For anything to "turn around" our government would have to bleed itself.

  28. Will Apse profile image93
    Will Apseposted 7 years ago

    Is US government really so bad? I thought the US was great at everything?

    1. profile image0
      Denno66posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Its people are just like everyone else, Will. Its government has behaved no differently than any other world power. When the next superpower rises to claim the throne, the world will aim its sights on them.

  29. mdburks profile image58
    mdburksposted 7 years ago

    The pen is mightier than the sword. I can’t remember who said it. To my way of thinking the pen and the vote are the one and the same. When the Congress gave the right to mint our monies to the Federal Reserve they misused the power of congress.  Now I am thinking that “WE the People” missed used the right to vote when “We the People” did not vote those congressmen who voted YEA out of office.
    What “We the People” have to do is get our Act together and start using the power of the vote that we should be holding so ever close and dear to our hearts.  This is the only way we can take our United States of America back
    We also need to base the US Dollar value as a Gold Certificate or something equally valued throughout the world.

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      While I agree with you the Constitution is the basis by which the politicians should abide there is a good deal of corruption and interpetation that they employ for their own gain.  The whole parliamentary procedure is subverted so as to manipulate the votes on bills the members have not even read. When you have this type of discourse going on where do you start? 

      It is like a big ball of string,  you pick away at it to find the beginning only to realize afterwords the end is nowhere in sight.

      1. mdburks profile image58
        mdburksposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        We start by votingthe corrupt out we know who they are.

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I agree and that is a good start.  Locally where I live we have been able to overturn the local elections twice and I see no change as we get rid of the slime.  The funny thing is when you begin to do this the corrupt ones show their colors very quickly so they can move on up the line as fast as they can before they are caught.  I can only think of two locally who have been able to do this and they are prime for termination in the next election.

  30. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years ago

    So many comments I'd like to respond too that I'll just post my own.

    The Fed needs to be dismantled. Go back to the gold system. We can keep regulation by the SEC in place to help ensure banks and wall street are being kept in line. Our currency is becoming less and less valuable every year. Inflation is literally destroying the middle class.  The people have no say in who runs the Fed or any of their decisions. They can do what they want and this needs to be put in check!

    Freedom is the answer! Every individual needs to have the ability to defend themselves against bad business, environmental, and social problems without being drug through the court system in a costly manner that can bring them to ruins before ever standing before a judge.

    Lobbying should be made illegal and there should be a very limited amount of funds allowed for campaining so the little guy stands a chance.

    I have more, but will pause for now.

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      These are all good points and should be followed up on but how do you get "The Slime on the Hill" to cooperate?  They want it just as it is and have been working at it for a long time while the electorate sleep.  This is our (electorates) fault and up to us to fix but the polarized bickering brought on by the slime is their entrenched method of keeping us from the truth.  How do you suggest we circumvent this?

      1. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
        Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        My suggestion is to start local. Apply pressure from the bottom up so to speak.

        I believe the states can determine the requirement to run for the House of Represetatives. Petition signatures, campaining contributions etc.  If you get state officials in that are willing to level these regulations, you may be able to start that way. I know one state in particular requires up to 10,000 more signature for someone to become an indie candidate than the Reps or Dems. That's not fair. Level that to the exact same number of signatures.

        Also, a more proactive constituency (spelling?) can help with pressure. You're dang right I write my Congressman when I see something going on I don't like. Sometimes several times on the same issue. HEE HEE. I usually get a letter stating how he is much smarter than I, and I am wrong. But, if EVERYONE that didn't like the policy or potential law would get off their keester and do the same, it would be a little harder to maintain the holier than thou attitude.

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          So what you are talking about is basically a third party.  This is going to take a lot of organization and grass roots help to make happen.  The reason why I say this is that anyone who has any money will have to jump on board to their the own detriment.  The reversal of tax laws protecting them and allowing them to keep more of their money which would happen is diametrically opposed to their welfare. You need some real patriots to make that happen.  So it would be in we the peoples hands to make it happen.

          I have a great name to call this party and a great basis for it to go by.  It could be the Constitutional Party.

          1. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
            Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            If this third party started out with State Senate's or even at the community level, this could help build that momentum for change.

            I like it.

            1. rhamson profile image76
              rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Do you know anybody that would jump on board and organize something along these lines?  It would have to be someone who is not married to the party system and is not easily coerced into alliances of expedience.  The party platform would be based on the constitution and the reformation of the lobbyist and big business based corruption we have now.  Another key element would be for term limits and publicly funded campaigns.  People involved would have to be squeeky clean and have no baggage to hinder the movement.  This would exclude a great number of the current slime in state and congressional positions. I think the time could be ripe for change.

          2. rhamson profile image76
            rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I googled the Constitutional Party and it is already taken as a name.  By the way the movement is a mess for them as well.

  31. donotfear profile image89
    donotfearposted 7 years ago

    One thing for sure, even if we don't know one freakin' thing about politics or social issues: The problem can't and won't be solved by ONE MAN who's been uplifted & placed on a pedastal.

    1. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
      Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think I like you. LOL!

      1. donotfear profile image89
        donotfearposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Cool....nice to know I have friends in good places.

  32. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years ago

    I don't know anyone right now.

  33. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years ago

    Maybe, we should get rid of the broken HMO that Congress put togethor in the first place and caused medical costs to skyrocket. Then, protect the pharmaceutical companies from having their drugs stolen from foreign manufactureres that didn't have to spend the R&D money on it.

    Then, maybe people could get a pretty straight forward quote on a procedure that wouldn't be inflated by the insurance companies only paying a portion. You could have insurance for EMERGENCIES.

    Maybe?

  34. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years ago

    As usual, I offer a potential solution and people are too busy bickering to pay attention.

  35. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years ago

    That's an issue we will have to figure out in order to get us to our end result.

  36. SparklingJewel profile image76
    SparklingJewelposted 7 years ago

    reducing the size of government is the first step along with getting back to constitutional law

  37. mdburks profile image58
    mdburksposted 7 years ago

    The first thing is we need to unite the citizens of the great country in order to accomplish anything!
    The second is we need to vote the crooks and derelicts out and put in some good people, but with restraints.
    Third we need to take control of the government back from the hands of big business (Insurance companies, Hospitals, Oil Industry, and so forth.
    Fourth lower the gold price back in line with the world economy.
    This would start the return to being the OUR home again.
    Once we stand to gather as a people then and only then will we be able to have our Government Of The People ,For the People, and By the People.

  38. mikelong profile image73
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    "Top searched words in the internet were about funny news, gossips and entertainment. Poll in my hubs suggest that Americans are not financially intelligent."


    Americans are not taught to be financially intelligent....we are trained to work on impulse...to see that commercial on t.v. or to get that ad in the newspaper and to go out and shop...

    We are being taught to covet....to find our happiness in worthless material objects.....instead of family being a cental point to gain a feeling of wellbeing, hedonistic consumerism is what is classically conditioned into many young minds...

  39. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Big Business's carefully-crafted work bearing ffuit.

  40. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years ago

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

  41. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years ago

    Does anyone else thing lobbying should be made illegal?

    1. shazz01109 profile image80
      shazz01109posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      No it shouldn't.  It's actually how much work gets done, especially in Washington, and at the State levels as well.  Lobbyist can actually serve a good purpose.  They're not all evil.  It's takes to however, to make things sketchy or evil: 1) the lobbyist and 2) the politician.

      1. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
        Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Right, but it's not a level playing field is it? Larger corporations, can give more to lobbyists than smaller groups can. Would a cap on lobbyist funds be an acceptable alternative?

    2. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely!  But how can you get "The Slime on the Hill" to get behind what essentially is the lifes blood of their campaigns?  There are a lot of good ideas such as term limits, publicly financed campaigns, line item or even better one issue for one bill types of changes that could mean a world of difference to our congress and the way it carries on its' criminal ...er...um... business.

      As long as we rely on the crud to govern us that is all we will get.

  42. profile image0
    cosetteposted 7 years ago

    oh boy.

    well, i could waste time attempting to explain to you my political beliefs and personal philosophies, but i think i will just, you know, not.

    think what you want, i really don't care. roll

    as far as your "outrage", what do you think should be done? what are you doing, if anything? or do you just like to b*tch about stuff?

    1. profile image48
      We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I could tell you all about the groups I belong to or all the fund raisers I attend for conservative candidates "but i think i will just, you know, not."

      Love it or leave it, the new liberal mantra!

  43. profile image0
    cosetteposted 7 years ago

    big_smile all righty then! haha...angry people are so funny!

    1. profile image48
      We Conservativesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not angry, I can just tell when a rival doesn't really have anything to say. If you had something to offer anymore than what you did, you would have.

  44. profile image0
    cosetteposted 7 years ago

    roll

    you're absolutely right.

    feel better now? i hope so big_smile

  45. mdburks profile image58
    mdburksposted 7 years ago

    The  people do have the vote, get rid of the bums if they want represent us. and get rid of lobbyist.

  46. mdburks profile image58
    mdburksposted 7 years ago

    no cap, stop it completely

  47. mdburks profile image58
    mdburksposted 7 years ago

    Turn The Nation Around.
    The first thing is we need to unite the citizens of the great country in order to accomplish anything! The vote does count all you have to do is vote and it will be counted. You know for years all I have been hearing is why should I vote it doesn’t matter, it’s the Electoral College that elects the President. Well I believe that is all the EC is concerned with and most of the time they vote with the people. Now as for as the House and the Senate I believe it is the people that control that vote. What I think is that “my vote doesn’t count” started as an excuse that some people made so they wouldn’t have to get up off their lazy butts and go vote. After all these years the LB syndrome has escalated and we have lost control of Our Government. So I say again it is time for us to defeat the Lazy Butt syndrome and unite to regain our dignity and prosperity.
    The second is we need to vote the crooks and derelicts out and put in some good people, but with restraints. I believe that two terms is enough for any Representative or Senator. Also they should not be allowed to vote in their own pay raises and budget increases. I also believe that all persons running for the congress should be restricted to use the same amount of campaign funds to level the playing field, this way no one can be accused of buying their seat.
    Third we need to take control of the government back from the hands of big business (Insurance companies, Hospitals, Oil Industry, and so forth). Lobbyist buying votes for their favor needs to be illegal and punishable by jail time and fines. Greed has ran this country long enough.
    Fourth lower the gold price back in line with the world economy. This would have to be done in increments in order not to create Super Inflation. When you raise the price of gold the dollar value goes down and vice versa. Gold goes down and the dollar goes up.
    Once we stand to gather as a people then and only then will we be able to have our Government Of the People, For the People, and By the People.

    1. Wayne Orvisburg profile image74
      Wayne Orvisburgposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed. Except, the gold issue. Gold is in line with the world economy. Gold doesn't change. The value of the dollar does and that's what causes the gold price to be so high. You can by the same thing with an ounce of gold that you could 100 years ago. We need to get rid of the Federal Reserve or at least make their information available to everyone so they can be audited and have a watchful eye.

  48. rhamson profile image76
    rhamsonposted 7 years ago

    I agree with everything you say and it has abeen said many times in different forums.  But how do you unite an electorate that is so polarized as evidenced in this forum alone.  People have a tendency to group together to get anything done and the politicians through lies and deceit keep us in separate camps to their favor.

    As long as we have an electorate poorly informed and fed lies by the government to fill the gaps nothing will change.  This has been a well orchestrated scenario that has had many years to work its magic.  The slime on the hill will do whatever is neccessary to assure that it continues and like lemmings many of us will follow.

    1. mdburks profile image58
      mdburksposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      We the People have to take on the responsibility of spreading the word to the People, to educate them that Our vote does indeed count when it comes to our Representatives and Senators And if we pull together as a united community we can take this monster on, that we created in the first place by allowing then to brain wash the most of us.
      Why not create a "Peoples Party" . Get us united by educating the voters and get rid of the greed and power hungry mobster that are in controll of the US Government.

  49. mikelong profile image73
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Gold doesn't change????

    Check again...

    I don't necessarily believe that the Fed should be abolished, but its power should be lessened...that is why the direct issuing of currency by the treasury departement based on gold, silver, something tangible without the interest payments is a good balance...

    I think that private donations directly to the campaigns of political candidates should not be outright abolished, but should be severely restricted. The vast proportion of campaign funds should, in my view, come directly from a government fund designed for this purpose.

    If private persons and private/public corporations wish to contribute to a candidate, they should rather contribute to the system, and donate their money to this fund....

    Each candidate would then get equal funds to run their campaigns...may the best man/woman win...

    With this in mind, lobbying should be strictly curtailed, with business between parties always being on the public record...no gifting of any kind....

    Any apparent conflict of interest would be publicly punishable....with takedowns done in "COPS" like-fashion...with penalties served in "Real World" type settings...where we can at least get a balance of "justice" visible...

    Oh well, my political career crashed and burned before I ever composed this post....

    1. mdburks profile image58
      mdburksposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Think again I quote you " I think that private donations directly to the campaigns of political candidates should not be outright abolished, but should be severely restricted. The vast proportion of campaign funds should, in my view, come directly from a government fund designed for this purpose". The private donations directly to the campaigns of political candidates is called buying you canidate, now think about it.

      Wayne, as far back as FDR the presidents have manipulated the price of gold for one reason or another.

  50. mikelong profile image73
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    I realize that money from private contributors can ultimately breed corruption...just look at our system today...

    But anything is corruptable...

    I typically prefer a balanced approach to things.... I originally thought that private contributions should be outright eliminated, but now I think that, with oversight by an election/candidate superisory body, a small percentage of donation taking can be done...

 
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