Isn't a $250,000 fine just a little bit extreme for not referring to a trans as

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   LoliHeyposted 8 years ago

   Isn't a $250,000 fine just a little bit extreme for not referring to a trans as their "chosen gender
   
   I think some countries are getting a little bit carried away when it comes to this miniscule percentage of the population.  The prime minister of Canada proposes a bill that will give people jail time for not referring to a person's chosen gender.  Jail time for that?  Or a $250,000 fine?  Are you kidding me?!  Really?  That's going off the deep end, I think.  Thoughts?  BTW, some states in the US already are imposing fines on people.

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   Link10103posted 8 years ago

   Your first sentence really tells alot about your thought process...
   
   But overall, it is stupid, on a really grand scale.
   
   Now what states are imposing fines on people for saying "she" instead of he/vice versa? Don't quote me on this, but I'm vaguely positive thats against the constitution and all...

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      tsadjatkoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Just because a law isn't constitutional doesn't mean liberal state governments, or the federal government for that matter, won't pass it as a law. Has happened, that's why we have the court system.

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      bradmasterOCcalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The court and justice system has failed. Name one SCOTUS decision that actually solved a problem and resolved the underlying issues.

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   Aime Fposted 8 years ago

   The bill that was proposed says that people cannot discriminate against transgendered people.  You're exaggerating to make it sound as ridiculous as you personally feel that it is.

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      tamarawilhiteposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eugene Volk has already asked, what happens if someone demands to be called Emperor or My Highness as a preferred pronoun?

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      junksellerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Call them Emperor. What does it matter? Or don't be a jerk who tries to dismiss the 99.9999% of people who will request being called by meaningful and reasonable names/pronouns by citing a hyperbolic and ridiculous possibility.

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      LoliHeyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, it matters if you're feeding into someone's insanity.  And no name calling here.

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      junksellerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      If you feel free to call perfectly normal people mentally insane, then I will have no qualms calling an actual jerk a jerk. And just for the record, the jerk was directed at Volokh and I consider it to be factually accurate.

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   tamarawilhiteposted 8 years ago

   When the liberal government can mandate who can stand naked in the changing room or shower next to you, don't expect future conservative administrations to stop at the bedroom door.

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   junksellerposted 8 years ago

   What percentage of the population must a group be, before you deem them human?
   
   Don't know about Canada, but there is a similar law in NYC, however, "The law is meant to address situations in which individuals intentionally and repeatedly target transgender and gender non-conforming people with this type of harassment." It isn't meant for accidental or one-time uses.
   
   The only reason to target someone repeatedly and intentionally with harassment is if you are a jerk and anyone so fined will get no sympathy from me.

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      tamarawilhiteposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Transgenderism is a mental illness, less prevalent than depression and schizophrenia. They need help - but not mutilating the body to suit the delusion.

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      junksellerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Even were we to agree that it is a mental illness (which it isn't according to science and medicine), wouldn't that make targeting them for harassment even worse? Do you pick on all the mentally ill? Or just those who deserve it?

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      LoliHeyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      These so-called scientific reports and "evidence" are completely bogus, and fabricated by the left to spread false ideas.  Any doctor or professional with the truth is run out of business.  Same for Climate Change.

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      junksellerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I don't really care if you choose to live in complete ignorance. I do, however, care how you treat people. Mental illness or not, you have no justification for harassing these people and I have no problem if you are punished for doing so.

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      Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It's amazing that you believe a vast majority of people who have spent years and years studying something can be so easily swayed to say something untrue and contrary to what they've invested so much time into.

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      LoliHeyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm NOT harassing anyone. I do not treat trans people badly.  In fact, I do not know that I've ever met one.  AIME:  You'd be surprised what people do to others and how one can be swayed by those in power.

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      jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Lolita - you probably have met one, even more, you just wouldn't have picked it....why? Because Transwomen look like U or I, or better! And transmen look like your average bloke...if not more masculine. You've prob pee'd next to one too!

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      Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      And of course because you don't agree with them they must have been swayed by someone! I guess it's nice that you think so highly of yourself and your ability to judge psychology beyond everyone else's capabilities.

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      bradmasterOCcalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      When the government forces you to work, that is involuntary servitude. People create businesses to work for themselves, and not the government, although they pay the govt. What is the prob in just going to someone who wants your business.

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   jlparkposted 8 years ago

   I think it's designed to stop the intentional and continued mis naming and intentional mis gendering of another to be discriminatory,and intentionally offensive - which is harassment - if the persons preferred pronouns and name are known to the person doing the misgendering etc.
   
   Most people are ok if you accidentally get it wrong (or didn't know any better) - be they trans people, or others who have names which are difficult to pronounce etc...as long as it wasn't intentional.
   
   Intentionally misgendering is along the lines of intentionally saying racist remarks constantly to a colleague of another race - and is usually in the 'harassment' section of your employment contract (racism, sexual harassment, harassment regarding orientation) - this is merely adding to that. As it is harassment for someone to misgender you constantly and intentionally. (And I note a LOT of people here intentionally refer to Transwomen as men...if this was towards an individual if could be classed as harassment)

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      tamarawilhiteposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It does not help the mentally ill to cater to their delusion, like calling someone who thinks they are Napoleon an Emperor. And a man who thinks his brain doesn't match his body IS mentally ill.

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      jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      tamara - are you a psychologist or a psychiatrist? Hell, even a health professional? No? Then it is not up to you to deem what is appropriate or not in relation to gender dysphoria.

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      LoliHeyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Tamara tells it like it is.  Many people refuse to see this condition for what it is, and it is sad.  Tamara does not have to have a degree to hold her opinion.  Besides, you didn't even let her answer your question, and answered it for her.

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      Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It's called a rhetorical question, my dear.
      
      She doesn't have to hold a degree to have an opinion but when it comes to calling someone mentally ill she should probably keep that opinion to herself.

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      jlparkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      yet, I'm an actual health professional. Science, +  the medical profession disagree with her + the medically, psychologically + scientifically recommended 'treatment' is transition 2 gender they identify as. Bcus her way don't work - been done b4

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   SmartAndFunposted 8 years ago

   
   
   So I will be fined if I call this person a "he?" Danielle Muscato claims to be a woman, yet this is how he presents himself to the world. If someone meets him on the street, how are they to know he believes himself to be a woman? Here's your citation, that'll be $250,000!
   
   Part of the problem with all this mess is that there is no legal definition of a transgender person. The trans lobby has made sure of that -- one only has to claim to be the opposite sex and in the eyes of the law they absolutely are the opposite sex. There are no doctor visits, doctor's notes, medication, psychotherapy, or surgeries required. Anyone can claim to be any sex at any time. This is how Christopher Hambrook gained residence at a woman's shelter, where he proceeded to rape two women. Shelter officials knew he was lying about "feeling" like a woman, but their hands were tied and they were forced to admit him as a resident.

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      Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think she expects people to know she identifies as a woman by looking at her? You wouldn't get fined for using the wrong term accidentally. It's to discourage people from using the wrong terms repeatedly & on purpose as a form of harrassm

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      LoliHeyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It depends on the transgender person, and whether or not she/he is a jerk.  Couldn't they claim you were harassing them, and it would be your word against theirs?

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      Aime Fposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Sure... but that could be said for literally any kind of harrassment/discrimination and not specific to trans people... should we stop enforcing consequences for sexual harrassment? Discrimination against women and minorities?

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