If you are an American would you pay more for goods that are produced in the US?
Would quality matter?
Even not an American....quality wise. But what shall we do? Where ever we go. China products are leading in the Market.
I worked for Vanson leathers for seven years. We made the highest quality leather gear in the world and it sold great.
Something need to be done very fast.
Look at this: The average Chinese Wage is $0.57 per hour. The average American wage is $15 per hour. The US has agreed to the liberalization of world’s trade to include all markets of the world. The Economists are reasoning that liberalization will bring greater efficiency and effectiveness that would translate to sweet pies for each of the 6 billion strong workforce of the world.
Ahead, and before an equilibrium is reached, there are bitter pills that have to be swallowed by some people. To avoid swallowing the bitter pills, the US has only one option of using its economic muscle to discourage the liberalization of world trade so that they can preserve their own markets as it was before global liberalization of markets.
The "cost" of cheap is the loss of the American Qaulity of Living. The more people spend in Red China the lower the quality of the American Standard of living.
Makes no sense to outsource the standard of living. If you follow the news at all you will know that Communism - Red China - Walmart's best friend is continually killing their own people and limiting their access to real information and a higher standard of living.
So the real issue is will you spend your money supporting the destruction of America and the Communist Regime or will you wake up and realize what you are doing with your money?
The "cost" of what you purchase is not what you pay at the checkout stand.
I totally concur. The problem with the economists is that they say we need greater access to cheaper products so that the consumer will buy them. The more the consumer buys the more production will increase and lower prices even further. This will make products more affordable to Americans in the process. The important factor to consider in all of this is that in the quest to produce more cheaply and going overseas to get it they have neglected the consumer who no longer has any income to buy whatever they are selling at any price. At that point a $10.00 item could be $10,000.00 dollars as the consumer has no money to buy it.
I am afraid this is a race to the bottom. By selling our jobs overseas we will have to lower our standard of living to comply. How do you think the American family will look in a tin shack with a little rat meat and rice on the dinner table?
No, I'm not an American and no, I'm not crazy to pay more for American goods.
What if the American products were of the highest quality would you pay more for better craftsmanship?
I would... if I had money.
However, I'm trying to think what American product is of better quality than its peers from Europe?
It's not just obsession with quality, I would also call it a longer tradition.
Personally for me, for most of the goods like clothes it makes most sense buying some lower mid tier stuff. For ex. for T-shirts there really isn't much difference between some T-shirt from place like Zara, Gap or H&M that costs $20 and some branded T-shirt like Armani that costs $150 or whatever. Pretty much the difference you pay is to wear some fancy brand, which doesn't mean anything to me. Whether that T-shirt is manufactured in Vietnam or U.S. doesn't really matter. It's different though when you're buying business suits or quality shoes.
Toyota, not the European producers, set the world standard for quality and cost in automobile production. Actually the German companies lagged behind GM, Ford and Chrysler in adopting high quality, lean production methods. Many cars produced in the U.S. are superior to their European counterparts. The Yugo was the poorest quality car ever sold in the United States. The European companies excelled in producing small fuel efficient diesel powered cars, however.
Toyota makes fine automobiles but in my opinion it is Honda that truly makes the highest quality.
Hyundai has stopped competing on price and are focusing very succesfully on quality.
That's your opinion on German cars. However in Europe they are considered to be the best cars and are certainly the most desirable. I agree that Japanese producers have adopted lean production and more efficient production technologies sooner, but no one in the sane mind would rather drive Toyota or Nissan than BMW or Mercedes and people are actually willing to pay more to drive BMW, Mercedes, etc.
Taking Yugo as example how some U.S. cars are better than European is really not adequate. Every car produced in Zastava was crap, you can't use Yugo, Wartburg or Trabant as examples of European cars.
On the other hand although by design inferior Lada Niva is better terrain vehicle, especially on low temperatures than most Western jeeps that are much more expensive.
I must be insane I would rather have a Japanese South Korean or American car over a German car.
German cars are the most expensive repairs and maintenance in the car market.
I will not sell an automatic VW or Audi and BMW or Mercedes is a tough sell at least in New England.
Well, you are a typical American. For start nobody in Europe drives automatic, if you do that you're like a joke. Again driving German car is the thing of prestige and yes it costs more to repair it, but then again it is not for everyone. Although the difference of the cost of maintenance is higher in the U.S. than in Europe. Same with selling it, since they are much more sought after in Europe there is a bigger market, so it is easier to sell it. Actually it is easier to sell a German car than American.
I would rather have a manual transmission myself but a lot of Americans enjoy eating, drinking, texting, and using cell phones while driving so the automatic is sought after more.
I live in a very depressed area so highline cars across the board are not that popular.
I could make a living simply by selling manual Honda's if I could get a steady supply of well maintained vehicles.
Out of the fifty or so cars we have for sale about half of them are Japanese and manual transmissions.
I have heard from Europeans that the Ford Focus is a big seller in Europe. Do you see the Focus?
totally depends on the product. Somethings are just worth paying more for. I also try and spend as locally as possible. In other words from local manufactuers when ever possible.
Unfortunately no. Price rules especially in pickle times like these. Quality is really less important than it was ten or twenty years ago. Standards on manufactured goods are well to a point of durability and a certain expected longevity. It would do no good to just proclaim to the people to "buy American". Rather they system needs to change. Corporate tax needs to be lowered. Oppressive restrictions need lifted. If, for once, the government would work with and for the private enterprise we would be able to produce more American products and be more apt to purchase them with confidence.
It's a new world - 20 years ago the main purchasers were those who had lived through world wars and the after math of the Depression in the US so durability and longevity was paramount. In the late 80's and throughout the 90's shopping became the national past-time. Length of service was no longer the priority. Purchasers were a new generation and only had third hand information about the "hard times". Salaries were rising, disposability became the norm. Today, with economic times being what they are and without having the same value system of their parents and grandparents, acceptance of lower priced goods that may have lower quality appears to be the answer...but the tide will turn. It's already noticeable with the rise in the more expensive "green" and "natural" products being purchased.
Low quality is NEVER the answer. The consumism mentality has pushed and incouraged Americans to look for quantity rather than quality. Women end up with full closets and nothing to wear.
Quality last for ever and does not go out of style. I am not talking disigner names (most of them manufactured in Asia those days), I am taking real quality, things that are well made whether cars, clothes or anything else.
Same goes for food. I consider myself too "poor" to buy cheap food and throw away halh of it.
Lowering corporate taxes and busting unions has been the war cry for the Rebublicans since way back. Reagans handeling of the air traffic controllers union ushered in a new phase of hard negotiations for government union precedence. Cutting taxes did nothing to lower prices and instead corporate balloned their compensation and bonus packages instead of lowering prices to capture more of the market place. It is peculiar with all the ramblings about how unions are driving the high costs of the auto companies the major concessions came from the unions and not the executive compensation and government tax policies.
Going back to the old ways with tax breaks and union busting is an old ploy especially with NAFTA and other trade agreements towards world economies the direction that really is the culprit. The government in cahoots wth corporate America discovered that by eliminating tarrifs for corporate donations, the cheap labor and massive profits afforded corporate America was a win win for them. It is the US Government that sold us out not the unions and taxes.
All people do is gripe about how our products are coming in and our jobs going out to everywhere except the US. I agree it’s messed up. What everyone needs to do is look at the big picture and figure out why. Obviously it the price. Over here, the industrial sector is faced with employee union demands and other inflated overhead which drive the cost of the products way up. The US consumer is at the end of the line and if the final product or service seems too expensive, they’ll gladly shop elsewhere. There’s plenty of retailers who will be more than happy to call in items from over seas to make a sale. In Japan, the average company CEO makes roughly four times what the floor worker makes and employees and management work together. Up until the mid 1870’s, Japan was still under the feudal system where they still used swords and spears. By 1906, they were an Imperial Empire with the best navy in the world. It took us well over 100 years to come close to that. Japan reached that status from working together and they became an industrial giant within 5 years after WW2. China is following suit and poverty in that country is coming to an end. Another big difference, if a Japanese CEO really screws up, he doesn’t go to the government and beg for a bailout. He’d more likely fling himself out of a 60 story window.
No. Price is king. That's why Chinese products fill the shelves of American stores. Now safety is another issue. If cheap goods are found to be unsafe, well then that's a whole different kettle of fish. Price vs. quality. Well that would depend on whether a person had the money to buy quality or had to make their decision based on price.
A few years ago GM had a GEO line that repackaged foreign vehicles under the GEO banner.
example the Toyota Corrolla and the Geo Prizm are exactly the same car.
Toyota easily outsold the Geo and still does in the used car market.
In this scenario the quality is the same but people still preffered the foreign car company. The Geo was also cheaper.
I am curious why?
Good question. I owned a couple of Geo Prisms and was highly satisfied. And my wife bought a Pontiac Vibe at a big discount last fall. She likes the care very much. It's nearly identical to a Toyota Max or whatever they call it. Toyota has had better reputation for quality which apparently carried over to the Corolla over the Geo or Vibe.
I do all the time. Trouble is, it is hard to find American made goods.
If I can't buy USA or Canadian made goods, I opt for things made outside of China.
Quality matters greatly. Something of quality can be bought once and used for years, instead of it wearing out in a few months. The USA could learn something about quality, especially in the Auto industry.
I think if we as Americans focused on quality over price we could compete not only locally but globally.
Remember Curtis Mathis Televisions.
I feel the same way. I think they (auto) are learning, or at least putting forth the effort. I look closely at labels, and stopped shopping at walmart years ago. I support local shops, restaurants.
my car, although foreign maker, is manufactured in usa. I may go domestic when it's time to trade, if the quality has markedly improved and I can afford it. the car I have now will last a long time.
as far as quality products, depends on what you're buying. the decades of extravagance and designer labels are over. why buy something with an overinflated price to show you have a logo?
who are you making rich? kids like expensive things and parents need to say 'no' more often ~ expensive does not always = quality. it means someone has a nice, fat bank account.
yes, the choice is ours.
Interesting about Geo and Toyota. Just due to reputation, I would buy the Toyota over the Geo any day, especially used. It is a quality issue.
They are the exact same car. It is very hard to sell a used Geo if the person is not aware of the manufacturer. Even though Toyota emblems are on the engine.
What about the body of the two cars? Are they the same?
I have a Land Cruiser. It is put together in an excellent manner, made to last and handle difficult terrain. The joints and other areas that are susceptible to damage are protected.
The GEO Prizm is made by Toyota for Geo exactly the same as a Corrolla. The Geo line has been dismantled. The new Chevy Aveo is a Daewoo.
The Land Cruiser is a great vehicle.
See? Thank you, Ivorwen. Geo is going to have to spend a lot of time and effort to repair their reputation. It's always a better idea to never lose your good reputation in the first place.
Because the domestic auto industry for years have treated their customers as an afterthought. They've spent so many years making cars that people don't want to buy, they have no credibility among customers looking to buy a car.
That's one of the problems with big business. They buy into "brand" advertising and start believing that just because people have bought GM in the past, they'll continue to do so. Turns out people want what they want and will change cars if someone else does a better job. Really this kind of stuff is Business 101 stuff. We've just had it too easy for too long and got lazy.
Much like our government has recently done, domestic car makers have alienated the US car buyer.
Ford Focus is one of the most popular and bestselling cars in Europe.
Buick is the most desired car in China.
That could be for a variety of reasons. It could be that Ford has done a better job at quality control in European bound cars and Buick the same in China. I couldn't say for sure, I'm not European, nor am I Chinese. I am sure the answer would be fascinating.
The size and status of the car is why it sells well in China. The quality is a determining factor but the same car is available here. Quality is important but the brand and model sell it.
That is right. Buick is seen as a vehicle of prestige in China.
Ford sells a diesel Focus in Europe.
You just priced yourselves out of the market guys. Stop whining about it, and start reducing your standards of living - of course if you want to have any standards of living at all. Or continue whining until you have nothing to eat. Choice is yours.
If you decide to do something about it, disbanding all unions would be a wise first step in the right direction.
Your solution is a bandaid on the scab. Collective bargaining only raised the standard of living in the US. A worker could make a living wage. Disbanding the unions would only hasten the fall.
Allowing management to circumvent the worker gains what? Another worker would do the work cheaper and reduce the price so others could buy the cheaper product. Illegal immigrant labor has filled the ranks well with this. You leave out the legal worker who happens to be the consumer. A race to the bottom of a different suit.
Henry Ford who adamantly opposed the unions even came to the conclusion that if he did not pay his workers a livable wage then there would be no customers to sell his product.
Cheaper goods produce quick profits for corporate America. The result of desimating the worker is a forgone conclusion. Corporate America is as short sighted as they need to be. They sell off the carcass that is leftover.
Thank you for making my point for me. Unions are not needed for that, it's a common sense.
You only picked at the explanation and you proved my point that even the most adamantly opposed to unions realize that they need the worker to buy their product whether or not they exist.
I fail to see what capable of paying consumer has to do with unions, for the life of me.
If anything, by charging fees for their questionable "services", unions decrease the amount of money being spend on goods
If you look at the immediate result of a union made product being more expensive than a non union made product you may have a point. But corporate profit has more to play in the process than the cost of paying labor their wages. If profits can be obtained by paying less in wages and corporate profit shown to flourish due to it the bonuses will be awarded. The bottom line is satisfied and all are happy.
But the effect of reducing the workers wages contributes to them buying a cheaper product and losing more of their income due to it. The race is on for whoever can get to the bottom first, wages or product resulting in a greatly reduced standard of living.
Funny thing about the Ford company is that even with the unions and their negotiation they have been the strongest of the big three and continue to wisely move into the future. Good management is the reason and not killed by the unions.
OK, now we are talking
Frankly I am at loss trying to determine what hurts American economy more - corporations or unions. Fiat currency probably is the highest hurt, but after it those two probably share the second place. Please note that all three are a direct result of government regulations.
I think buying cheaper products is a mindset, and does not really depend on wages. Some people prefer the cheapest (and pay twice for it, or even multiple times), some prefer the most expensive and overpay directly, some manage to strike a balance between price and quality. This depends more on life experience and how well parents managed to pass their experience down to their kids, then on anything else.
And I don't really see the race you keep mentioning, and don't take part in it either.
That is where I think you are mistaken. The race is on and has been for some time. With the dollar shrinking and wages with it there is not much of a choice. The money is just not there any longer for a lot of people to buy the "quality" products they wish. It is hard to determine what is meant by this term as most manufactures of name and quality brand items have their products made in Asia anyway.
There are only three alternatives as I see it. Make more money by getting a higher paying job which will mean in most cases more education and a debt that is incredible. Buy on credit if you really need it and pay it off over the long term with interest making it even more expensive. Or do without.
Without jobs in general as the economy now shows, it is risky to take on more debt and credit is becoming more and more harder to get. Do without is what most people are choosing to do. Use the old car longer. Move in with relatives. Buy the generic brand foods rather than the brand names.
No my friend it is happening even as we speak. America is in a real crisis and when things get back to normal, normal won't quite seem the same.
just a quick remark before I leave for the afternoon. I'm following this thread and there are some good discussions ~~
a thought in response to your last 2 paragraphs:
~to do without is not so bad if it's really not needed, as many are learning.
~ use the old car longer, no reason to trade in every few years as before, for the most part, cars are built to last longer
~relatives moving in may bring people back to more of an extended family dynamic as it once was, family helping family.
~ we all know generic brands are fine, the same as any one name brand but without the expensive packaging.
aren't these all good for us?
Not if it makes you unhappy
Seriously, the change that you cite will be the result of the trade deficeit with China and job loss to them as well. But if we cannot build trade within the country and continue to farm out the jobs where does that lead too? Less people trading with each other because they have no money to do it and the economy runs on trade foreign and domestic.
I am all for getting to know my family better and I currently drive older cars and yes I even use Suave shampoo as an alternative even though I still think it makes my hair oily.
"Questionable services?" What does that mean?
Talking to yourself? Why do you need public forums for that?
No that was an add on I thought I had in the first post responding to yours. Sorry
How would you propose to accomplish that. Anyway, the significance of unions has declined greatly in recent years. Last time I looked fewer than 10 percent of the private workforce is unionized. More than one-third of the work force was unionized in 1945. The right to organize and bargain collectively has been a basic right of American workers since the Wagner Act was passed in 1935. Unions have their pluses and minuses, but their overall effect, in my opinion, has been positive.
As a lower class American I can totally agree with you. I live in the city where Harley Davidson calls home. The companies first plant and headquartes is literally in my back yard. The company founders and creators where all born and raised right here.
In 2009 the laid off 2000 employees this was done in response to wage disputes. The company offered to keep all of the employees on staff if every employee across the board from CEO to janitor would take a 1% wage decrease.
Since the workers refused to accept this and the market will not support an increase in the overall cost of their product Harley did what it needed to to remain competitive.
Yet here we sit in America saying we are somehow more valuable.
Why should the cost of American products be more expensive than impoted products. There is no logic. it is only greed.
That is funny because it was reported that the union agreed to the new contract.
http://www.todaysfinancialnews.com/us-s … 10425.html
I think if you look more closely the massive layoffs were more due to the economy and not the unions negotiations. They conceeded a lot.
What would have been expensive would have been Harley having to take American made off of all of its' products and advertising had it moved to China or Canada.
Why is it that Canada is getting so much more of the auto industry? Oh yeah, the public healthcare costs are picked up by the taxpayers through the government. Funny how America avoids that issue.
Not avoiding any issue Just telling it as I see it! My brother-in-law was a 25 year veteran of this company and a member of the union negotiaton team. Just because you read something that seems to answer some of the questions does not mean it answers all of them. The artical you pointed to only says that there where wage related issues it does not say how they were resolved.
Yep, that's exactly the reason I think you need to get rid of unions.
I live in a city that at one time was the number one garment and textile manufacturing cities in the world. Huge granite factories still dot the landscape now barely filled by small shops and artisans.
The artisans are making quality goods glass blowing, painters, ceramics, etc...
They are thriving.
Small business is the key to recovery and the goods have to be of the highest quality standards.
The value lies not in the cost which is a one time affair but more with the use you will get from the product.
Value is directly affected by quality.
I am tired of buying cheap products that don't last. I would rather pay more for something that will last longer.
Honestly I outsource everything I do online its so much less expensive then hiring someone here in the states. However I always feel as though I can recoup that money from outside the US sales which helps make our dollar worth more.
I do tend to try and buy products in USA to help support the economy and jobs however there is only so much money to go around.
I cannot blame you as all of your competition is doing the same. The bottom line is profits and if you do not play the game you will be burried by those that do.
I run into the same thing with one of my business' and rack my brain as to how to get around it.
I don't feel that government restrictions could be put in place to rectify this situation easily.
from the communist system the idea of having Unions in United States is the first mistake America made.
jobs to outside countris just to increase profits is the second big mistake
Since things come always in a group of three, let's see what the third mistake will be
The idea of having unions is not a mistake. The purpose of these unions is to protect the rights of the workers.
Exporting jobs to other countries is not a mistake too. You have to look from the standpoint of those that did export those jobs - companies. For them making such decisions mean more profits. In the competitive markets if they do not export labor, the cost of labor would lead to much higher prices of goods produced than those of their peers that do use cheaper labor. That would put them in a very disadvantaged position and in many cases would eventually force them to shut down their businesses.
Btw, by your last name I would assume that you are from Eastern Serbia or Romania (Timocka Krajina, Temisvar and that area)?
When I can, I try to purchase items made in the USA, however sometimes the cost is an issue and that leaves me with little choice.
I agree and sometimes there is not an American made choice in products. Shoes and sneakers for example...
in light of the above post, I just read this article in the NYT.
learning to live with less. I think in many instances, it makes room for more true happiness and not the 'momentary' happiness that comes and goes with always wanting more.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/opini … of.html?hp
name of article is 'what could you live without?'
The way things are going many more may be faced with the close living situation your link describes. Unfortunately it may be through foreclosures and bankruptcies which cause many to languish in failure rather than opportunity.
The race to the bottom by American culture and the facilitating corporate agenda leave little to imagine when it becomes fully realized.
I disagree with you Paul...it is rather the profit of the corporation that drives this....when producers could hire and fire labor any way they chose in this nation there was no "outsourcing" or "offshoring"....this is a trend that has begun since independently organized labor transcended the race game back in the 1960's..
I would gladly pay a higher price if it meant that good paying jobs held by men and women with collective bargaining rights....any day of the week...
But that is not in the interests of Walmart, Best Buy, or Nike...
Are you saying Paul that Nike exploits children simply because Americans want to make too much money???
How much does one pair of shoes cost to make compared to what idiot Americans pay for them??>
Get outside your bubble please...
i would rather go for the quality.. rather than buying it on cheaper price you cant be so sure... but i think it still depends on the user
Well, you might want to let that person express that sentiment, if he does in fact hold it, before attributing it to him. Just seems the right way to go about things.
The reason why I mentioned it in my post was to outline that the particular sentiment expressed by the the individual closely resembled what I spoke about.
I am sorry if you were insulted or that I have insulted the individual but I responded to the gist or direction one thing leads to another.
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