Did Donald Trump Win or Lose the North Korean Summit?

1. 84

   My Esotericposted 7 years ago

   When President Clinton worked out an agreement with North Korean - without legitimizing a mass murderer - he got a Verifiable cessation of North Korean's nuclear program.  This agreement held for several years until North Korea broke its promise and kicked the inspectors out.
   
   President Trump legitimizes the North Korean mass murderer by meeting with Kim Jong Un in Singapore. The one concrete concession by Trump is the surprise announcement that he is cancelling the joint military exercises with South Korea, Japan, and many other allies - military training which he called "provocative".
   
   - What did Un give up?
   
   - What did Trump give up?
   
   - Did Trump achieve anything close (or far away) from ""complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization." that he has promised was the only possible outcome of his talks or he would walk away from them?

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2. 76

   wildernessposted 7 years ago

   Must...make...Trump..evil.  Even if it means a great achievement is touted as a failure.
   
   https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/339 … rump-fails

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3. 71

   Live to Learnposted 7 years ago

   A sitting president opens a dialogue with a leader of an insanely closed country which previously threatened to lob nukes our way. I'd call that a win, in the short run. We have to wait for the results of the long run.
   
   In the long run, Clinton failed. Let's hope Trump fairs better.

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   1. 84

      My Esotericposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Clinton actually GOT North Korea to HALT production and testing without giving them the legitimacy they were seeking.  Granted, TEN years later they reneged when Bush broke the agreement (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac … 7daee699f3)
      
      You forget, Live, that Trump set up this scenario.  Before Trump, NK had none of the enhanced capability they have now; no ballistic missiles that worked well or go very far, no H-bomb, no ability to deliver nukes.  In fact they had basically stop testing missiles.  Trump shows up and they test more missiles than they had combined in all the years before and end up with all the things they didn't have before INCLUDING the legitimacy they have always wanted.
      
      They, China, and Russia got another thing they have all wanted for a long time - a less prepared South Korea and United States in the event Un unleashes his 10 million man army.
      
      What did Trump get? At best a promise to talk more and certainly what he told the world he was going to get until a week before the talks.

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      1. 61

         Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Kim also got praised for his sense of humor, received never before recognition by a world power, had a movie trailer made by our Govt. complete with propaganda, called an honorable man although he has over a hundred thousand of his own young people in concentration camps, starves his people, murders his family members and on and on.....
         
         
         The US got literally what they had before the meeting...and a piece of paper.

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      2. 71

         Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Trump was not responsible for Kim's nuclear aspirations or the development in improved capabilities. He happened to be president at that time. He also happened to be president when the mountain collapsed.
         
         I have no illusions. Kim has a goal. But, we must move forward, in good faith, in the hope that we can facilitate a safer world. It is worth the risk.
         
         I am confused on the 'less prepared' statement. Do you honestly believe foregoing exercises for one year will mean anything? We have not held the games in other years. Guess what? No war.
         
         I think it is grand that Trump personally met Kim. If Kim is sincere, he is walking precarious ground and may lose power in the effort. Say what you want. No NK leader has ever crossed the border for talks with their southern sister. Until now. This time may be different and we have an obligation to pursue peace.

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