Is the Deep State a real thing or not?

1. 85

   RJ Schwartzposted 5 years ago

   It's been an interesting last year in American politics - one of the topics that's been in the news throughout that period is the "Deep State"
   
   What are your thoughts? Does a Deep State actually exist?  If you are a believer, do you think it's something that can be eradicated?  If you think its all a smokescreen, can you share your logic on why you feel this way?  Do you think its a non-partisan issue or is it connected to one Party or the other?

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   1. 61

      Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Anyone with any sense knows the "Deep State" was invented by Hannity and Limbaugh, and is only believed by their listeners. That would be you, Ralph!

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      1. 85

         RJ Schwartzposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         And Politico, the Washington Post, the Huffington Post, the Guardian, Glenn Beck, Townhall, Newsweek, and more than half of America (this from a quick internet search) - but hey, Randy says otherwise, so we should all just forget about the notion that the government is corrupt to the core

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   2. 79

      Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      "If you think its all a smokescreen, can you share your logic on why you feel this way?"
      
      Ralph,
      
      I think that the better question is why would the concept of "deep state" be anything other than a smoke screen? We have managed fine for almost a two centuries and a half, why all of this now? I have never in the history of this republic ever heard of a chief executive who attacks the very apparatus of government, much of it under his purview, as an enemy

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      1. 85

         RJ Schwartzposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I realize that you'll likely ridicule me but I don't care - I have a thick skin.
         
         Ancient Greece and Rome citizens thought their nations were solid, right up until they rotted from within.  America is but an infant compared to the great civilizations of the past, but the attraction of our economic might is a magnet for corruption and greed.  Up until now, our political leaders were chosen from a select group of insiders (people with decades of "inside the beltway" guidelines surrounding them) who trade favors like ten year olds trade baseball cards.  Now that we have someone with no loyalty to any of those insiders, we finally get to see a window into the inner workings of DC and they aren't too pretty.
         
         When in history have we experienced both Party's and the media going after a President as hard as they go after Trump?  Maybe because the game has been rigged for far too long and he's trying to dismantle it.
         
         And, not to be rude, but just because you've never experienced it, doesn't mean it isn't true or ongoing.  It's called the deep state for a reason, right?

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         1. 79

            Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Alright, but I am going to need more evidence beyond the fact that Trump and his entourage says so. His rants are not good enough to support the existence of such a thing.
            
            The attention that Trump gets from the press, pro and con, is his own doing. The excuses from the right regarding the  "evil media" never ends.
            
            This "deep state" stuff could also be just more diversionary bulls*it manufactured by the deplorable right wing.

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         2. 79

            Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

            "I realize that you'll likely ridicule me but I don't care - I have a thick skin."
            
            No, ridicule intended, but I neither trust nor believe Trump or anything he says. The level of proof supporting his complaints will have to reach the stratosphere before I pay any attention.
            
            I guess that is my opinion......

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            1. 85

               RJ Schwartzposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Never in American history has the entire upper leadership of the FBI been either fired, demoted, reassigned, or compromised in the way that is happening right now.  I'll be happy to wait and see what happens, but McCabe has already stated he'd plead the 5th unless he was given immunity (not a guilt admission, but certainly makes his actions appear suspicious) and Comey is refusing to testify.   And furthermore, why isn't AG Sessions prosecuting anyone?  Many believe he was the insider all along and is playing defense for other Washington insiders.

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               1. 79

                  Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  For sure, there are a lot of unanswered questions, but they do not give me reason to find Trump as a innocent victim in regards to all of it.

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                  1. 85

                     RJ Schwartzposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     I never said Trump was an innocent victim - he knows exactly what he's doing

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   3. 0

      promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      It's reasonable to think there are factions that operate beyond public scrutiny.
      
      Even some Democrats and Republicans in Congress negotiate secretly and act like a "deep state" in private so they don't get crucified by the public. I have heard this from people who have contacts in DC.
      
      But there are more than 2 million federal government employees. It's a stretch to imagine a single large deep state that runs the country in secret.

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2. 93

   Readmikenowposted 5 years ago

   "Even measured academics began to describe a dual-state system in the United States, the focus of Tufts University international law professor Michael J. Glennon’s 2014 book, National Security and Double Government. Glennon observed that Obama had campaigned against Bush-era surveillance and security policies in 2008 but acquiesced to many of them as president—suggesting a national-security apparatus that holds sway even over the elected leaders notionally in charge of it."
   
   https://www.politico.com/magazine/story … nce-215537

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3. 95

   wildernessposted 5 years ago

   Not sure, after watching the DNC performance of choosing a presidential candidate before the primary election and then manipulating that election to produce the desired result, that anyone can think there are not behind-the-scenes "controllers" guiding our politics.
   
   But I'm not sure that "hidden handlers" of politicians qualifies as the "deep state", either.

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   1. 85

      RJ Schwartzposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Humor me Wilderness
      
      There are aprox. 2.7 million Federal employees, representing both Party's and independents.  The White House can change every 4 years as well as the balance of power in Congress, which always causes a shift in policy.  Are we supposed to believe that the holdovers from previous administrations simply change their political allegiances every time the leadership changes - no way.  They stay in their jobs and continue to work toward their own Party's goals (quietly if necessary).  I call that Deep State.
      
      How about the Senior Executive Service?  Most of them have no direct Chain of Command and they act without impunity.  What about the Fed?  No one controls them - Deep State 
      
      Congress is a laugh - they can barely force the FBI to turn over a list of e-mail addresses without ranting to the media.  Who controls who? 
      
      Someone is calling the shots and it isn't Congress....so why does everyone struggle with the concept of an entrenched group that attempts to keep things under control. 
      
      I always believe that following the money leads to the quickest answer - lawmakers, judges, and other elected officials depend on contributions and networking to get elected (lots of this money is shadowy) - I'd also call those actors Deep State players

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      1. 95

         wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         If that's what the Deep State is - figures behind the figureheads we see and elect - than I have to agree with you.  Those children aren't [ii]capable[/i] of running the country even as poorly as is being done.  Someone else is pulling the strings, and I agree that following the money trail will show them for what and who they are.

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4. 93

   Readmikenowposted 5 years ago

   

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5. 0

   ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

   Wasn't it once a great country with a free and open media that would CALL OUT deep state or any institutional government collusion ?
   
   Now , The news media IS  the deep state .
   The U.S. arm of Pravda *.

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6. 76

   Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago

   The is something about the deep south history that tells me about white secret societies today. With all the Hicks, hillbillies, and rednecks voting for Bush and Trump who won the U.S. presidency with less support from black and Hispanic voters than any president in at least 40 years. Highlighting deep national divisions  incidents of racial and political confrontation.
   
   Southern Democrats comprised whites in the South. In the 1850s they defended slavery in the United States, and promoted its expansion into the West against northern Free Soil opposition, that brought war. After Reconstruction ended in the late 1870s they controlled all the Southern states and disenfranchised blacks (who were Republicans). The “Solid South” gave nearly all its electoral votes to Democrats in presidential elections. Republicans seldom were elected to office outside some Appalachian mountain districts and a few heavily German-American counties of Texas

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   1. 95

      wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      How do those "secret white societies" today compare with the secret black societies?  Secret Hispanic societies?  Is there a major difference, beyond their stated goals?

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      1. 76

         Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         After I built a Sunken Treasure Museum in Florida. A Blackman ask me to build the first Black American History museum.
         
         With very little history of progress from the streets of Crips and Bloods. As they are no match for the NWO secrets and powers of the DEMOCRIPS AND BLOODICAN.
         
         Add on Bones and Skull, Illuminati, KKK, Bilderberg, Freemasons, Bohemian Grove, Satanist and so on and so on. All roads leading to Zionist bankers and Oil.

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         1. 95

            wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            The difference then is that black and Hispanic secret societies don't lead to Oil?  Is that it?

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            1. 76

               Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               US dollar is based on oil, not gold. Gold is used by some white politican from the white house may lead you to believe. That keeps it all onesided and synthetic.

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               1. 95

                  wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, but how do you know that white secret societies lead to oil companies and black/hispanic secret societies do not?  Are you a member of the KKK so you know they own oil companies?  And the Crips and Bloods so you know they don't own some oil somewhere?

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                  1. 76

                     Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     I can't imagine the Crips or Bloods would want to destroy the earth with nuclear weapons, oil and fossil energy.
                     
                     Greedy Whites got that figured out. Keep Crips and Bloods in Poverty in the drug wars. Then pick them out with no other choices for them, then the US military recruiting phycopaths. Second choice is prison that has increased 10 times and corporations have bidding war on the cheapest labour they can possibly get.

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                     1. 95

                        wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        So far I haven't seen a single thing showing that your racist rant has any truth in it.  Is that intentional or do you actually have anything to show that white secret societies are basically different than black or Hispanic ones?
                        
                        I mean, you've gone from the white secret societies are connected somehow to Jewish banks and oil to now they wish to destroy the world with nuclear weapons, oil (bury the world in oil?) and fossil energy.  But the black and hispanic secret societies seem to be angels, wanting only the best for humanity and loving all.  Even the drugs they deal are forced by white secret societies. 
                        
                        You will understand if I take all this with a pound of salt as you haven't provided a single thing to back up any of the claims about any secret societies.

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   2. 76

      Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      You can imagine how much the deck has always been stacked for white control. Until Latino and Blacks earn the right to vote in 1965.

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7. 76

   Castlepalomaposted 5 years ago

   You want me to provide you with all these dozen's of white society with proof . That is the fastest way to get someone killed for sure.
   
   The prison population grew by 700 percent from 1970 to 2005, a rate that is outpacing crime and population rates. The incarceration rates disproportionately impact men of color: 1 in every 15 African American men and 1 in every 36 Hispanic men are incarcerated in comparison to 1 in every 106 white men.
   
   Many black can be called rich, white wealthy men write their checks for mostly black entertainers and jocks.  You have the odd billionaire like Oprah Winfrey, second wealthiest black person in the world.

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   1. 95

      wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Well, yes.  When you make racist claims of secret white societies that wish to nuke the world it is a little better for having proof.  As is there is no reason whatsoever to believe it.

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      1. 76

         Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         It's very well known all these secret white society I just mention, check online. Plus predominate white Russia and America combined own 90℅ of the nuclear weapons, Wail America is the only ones who have used them. I don't see blacks, Hispanic, or Asians leading the raping and pillage around the would for 93℅ of time since America birth in 1776.
         
         White british empire did it too, for a very long time, same with White Russia.
         
         Why do you pretend to be surprised white Greedy Bastards would do such a thing, especially examining the course of white empires madness. Don't blame it on many prisoners put in for reefer madness pretending to be enemy number One or those terrorist ghost the US military chases all over the globe. It's all backwards and the facts are in plain view and written on the wall.
         
         History is changing fast. White population and white empires are in a fast decline, thank doG.

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         1. 95

            wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            ??Nothing you listed is secret at all - virtually everyone in the country has heard of all them and many know some members.
            
            But continue with your racist rant.  I tire of such things rather rapidly.

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            1. 76

               Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               There no escaping it, it totally surrounds you anyways.  I express the freak show and at least find solutions for myself. The world is too crowded with sheep and wolves, so it's just something for me go work around. Better than hit on the head lessons from Trump.

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