How can we get back to where we value one another more than politics?
I'm sure anyone who has seen my responses on HubPages knows I'm a conservative. I also have relatives who are liberal, gay as well as a recent revelation of a transsexual. So, how do we all get along? We discuss politics but realize family is more important than politics. At the end of the day, we don't agree, but it doesn't matter. Lets grab a drink, watch a movie and fight over its meaning. The anger I'm seeing is a bit frightening. I've stood next to Democrats for many elections passing out info on my candidate as they passed out information on theirs. At the end of the day, we still went to the bar and talked sports, volunteered together for different events in the neighborhood and more. It's getting crazy. I don't care what your politics, at the end of the day we have to live together. This past election for the first time ever I saw Democrats knock things out of a Republican person's hand, take pamphlets and roll them up and throw them at a Republican. It's politics. At the end of the day we still have to live with one another. How can we get back to where Democrats and Republicans do what they want for their party and at the end of the day, share a beer, watch sports, work together for a community event and more?
I will say that during the last election we were presented with a surreal environment I could never have imagined. It didn't cause any rifts in the real world where I live. This bizarro environment online is not a reflection of the world I live in, although I do sadly concede it might be the world others occupy. We are all pretty polite. I may not understand the why of some cultural things I disagree with but I'm a firm proponent of pursuit of happiness. As are all,left and right, in my world.
Ok. I have severed ties with a sister who is a rabid conservative but, in my defense, her political views were not the primary motivator.Mike, I admire this question. As you know, I'm very liberal. We have a weekly poker game. Almost every person there is liberal. However, one of our friends is one of the leading conservative voices in the state. He runs a think tank. He comes to our poker game. You know what bridges the gap? Humor. I consider him a friend.
I think social media has not helped civil dialogue at all. We don't see each other as people, but as two dimensional avatars. We can yell at each other and insult without consequence. This is so much harder to do in person.
The internet has made it easy for us to follow our worst impulses and be mean.A little late to this conversation. I want to say as a conservative also, I get along with my liberal family members and friends and colleagues.
I use different approach with different people. In some case, we avoid talking politics. In some case, we have a healthy debate... in some case, I tried to educate those who are not engaged in politics, especially the millennials.
As you pointed out, under the Trump administration, it has never been so bad.
I blame mostly the media which whips up this caricature of Donald Trump and create a mass hysteria of many afflicted with TDS including many in the media.
The real solution as in the past under Ronald Reagan, is results. When the economy turns around and America is on the mend and law and order is the rule of the day, America is respected in the world...Trump will be respected and reelected for a second term. His popularity will be much improved. Unfortunately, there will always be the minority of haters who to this day blame Reagan for the homeless and the HIV explosion...
There will always be some that hate Trump because his name is Trump...
No matter what good he does for all the people of our country.
It is a free country.
People are free to believe what they want...
It seems like people have lost perspective a little bit. Political affiliation seems to be increasingly important when people identify themselves/others. In reality people are complicated, there is so much that goes into making someone who they are, and we do everyone a disservice by treating them a certain way based on one label.
I have conservative friends and family members. Some of my favourite people in the world are conservatives. I also know liberals that I can’t stand. It’s important to keep in mind that you won’t necessarily like or dislike someone based on how they vote.
The huge lumping together of “the left” or “the right” is harmful as well, I get so agitated when I see people posting stuff like “THE LEFT/RIGHT ARE HYPOCRITES!” because a side full of millions of people is not a single entity. Hold people accountable for what they put out as an individual. Talk to people as individuals.
Personally I find it pretty easy to push someone’s political opinions aside and not let that play a factor in how I discuss other topics with them. There are still some people who I seem to disagree with on almost everything but if they’re being respectful and are interested in having an honest conversation then I’m happy to do it. I don’t need to agree with someone on everything, or even anything, to enjoy their company.
Just be nice. Try to talk to people like they’re your friends. Or even just human beings. Find something you like about someone and keep that in mind when you’re feeling frustrated with them. Remind yourself that people are generally good and just want what they feel is best for the people they care about - just like you do.I say follow the money. Discover who will profit from a divided country.
Very valid point. I consider every political issue like an iceberg. What we see as motivation in public is probably far different from what we would see as motivation in private.
- ahorsebackposted 6 years ago
0I'm sure we all treat social media and forums like this differently than we would in person , some of us at least . But I want to remind people just where the vast majority of ,especially latent , discord originated . I have stated my belief that it began with the Obama administration's fire-brand divisiveness in media , with leftist activism across the board , in academia and the Alinsky style of mass communication and especially to "change" .
Conservatives remain ,generally , quietly conservative . Today anyone arguing that the atmosphere wasn't began by the left" has a hard row to hoe" in proving it . Yet , I read last week by someone ---"There is a reason their are curtains on voting booths ".
I can go along with that but I will not accept my parties blame . Being just outside of independent lines in the conservative party , I will say that Obama's "Hope and Change "really only brought the latter half of that dream . So be it but place the blame where the blame lays .
Peace. - ahorsebackposted 6 years ago0
We cannot let the real culprits , the left , blame us equally however , the violence and the divisive and hate incited media manifested into public demonstrations and riots is their fault . This is a 85 % 15 % ratio at best . What ,now that they've lost all influence for legislation and change they want two party "unification ",? ...........Oh Sure.
Until next time ?Telling someone that they must accept X amount of blame for something that their party did is not a way to get along with each other. But I suppose you have to want to get along to offer up any solutions on how to do that.
The solutions are extremely simple Aime , Stop doing it . Perhaps standing inside your party lines clouds the vision , for me , having been of both parties , I can tell you that the majority of blame is from the left , I was there in the sixties and seventies Aime , I know how it works . Reconciliatory talk is great ; however , don't begin this much needed conversation by wanting to what --Share the blame from the first opening to resolve ?
I don't think so.
This conversation has begun from politicians on the left saying "....wooo take it easy people ......" and that's great , they see the public reaction now flaming up and are simply worrying about November and beyond [votes ]. Want solutions ? Sure , I'm more than willing to help , want apologies from those who did nothing but react ? ......sorry .
By the way , Talk is cheap .It’s not really about who to blame though. It’s about people having different perspectives and experiences and forming opinions and taking positions based on that. Not everyone thinks the way that you do and that doesn’t make them wrong. Just different. Instead of demanding that people accept the blame that you deem to be appropriate maybe you should take blame out of it entirely. You can’t have an open discussion with someone if you’re blaming them for something before you even start talking to them.
And talk is not cheap. Talk is important. If you think it’s cheap you’re not doing it right.What I chose to do out of necessity to staying patriotically sane is to chose the ideology that most people , as they age ,actually evolve into believing . I'm not just talking about being more conservative .Why do you suppose that even the traditional democratic party was also more patriotic than the newer left ?
As the left lets their entire party be hijacked by the fringe left , by under or uninformed youth and academia , by a media bent on changing the very core of our American government and constitution ,by a very vocal celebrityhood , there will always be those of us who truly recognize that damage inflicted is irreparable?
Of course"........ not everyone thinks the way I do ........" I wouldn't want that anyway . Yet traditionally both parties politically "thought " in the best interests of the country , this country , America . Not a NWO , not a conglomeration of nations and regions but THIS country . What the alt- politically motivation and extreme naivete' of those against me and those like me don't get is that , America is a new and brilliant experiment threatened from all sides or at least many sides and THAT is the motivation of traditional American believers .
You don't agree , too bad . Doesn't make me wrong or outdated .I’m sorry, can you clarify how anything that you’re saying actually addresses the topic of this thread? Because it seems like you’re just ranting.
I never said anything about you or conservatives being wrong. But I’m not sure why you’re so comfortable saying “if you don’t agree with me then too bad” while insisting that everyone on the left is wrong and change their views. Again I’m failing to see how that’s helpful in working towards everyone being respectful and finding ways to get along.Aime , I suggest that working on your own party first , as that's where most conflict has originated from , might be the best thing . Respectfully , don't look to the right side of your own politics for them to accept some blame that isn't theirs . You and I aren't obviously changing our ideologies any time soon are we now ?
Here' s just a bit of history lesson for you, Horse:
Conservatives:
1. opposed women's right to vote
2. supported the Ku Klux Klan
3. opposed integration
4. opposed the Voting Rights Act
5. opposed the Civil Rights Act
6. opposed the ERA
7. opposed gay rights and gay marriage
Now, I'm not saying liberals didn't also oppose some of those things at the time, but it is the definition of conservatism to oppose change. All of those things were changes that, by its nature, conservatives opposes BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS TO BE CONSERVATIVE.
So do you think the actions of the Left might be dictated by people sick and tired of not having access to their civil liberties? The very reason Trump won is that he rallied support from a group who felt like their rights were being trampled on.
Lesson: take away people's rights or prevent them from exercising their rights and they get mad.
So, I think, to answer the question - we should disagree politely about how we think government should work or how much we should spend on certain things, but if we disagree about who should have basic human rights, we're going to continue to have people who are mad and not behave politely.
Conservatives should celebrate the retirement of Anthony Kennedy cautiously, because I suspect a very far right judge will help the court roll back a lot of rights - rights of people to vote freely, rights of women to receive equal pay for equal work, rights of homosexuals to exist in society the same as heterosexuals, rights of women to terminate a pregnancy if need be. When those things happen, people will become angry.You need a history lesson.
This Republican party was KEY to getting women the vote.
“The AWSA encouraged male officers, supported the Republican Party, sought simple enfranchisement, and counted the abolitionists among its ranks.”
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Americ … ssociation
Thee Klu Klux Klan was created by the Democrats
“Founded in 1866, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) extended into almost every southern state by 1870 and became a vehicle for white southern resistance to the Republican Party’s Reconstruction-era policies aimed at establishing political and economic equality for blacks. “
https://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan
Democrats are also responsible for creating Jim Crow Laws that kept blacks from voting. They also worked hard to destroy the Republican Party's civil rights bills.
“The political enforcement of Jim Crow was entirely in Democratic hands. The Ku Klux Klan functioned as the paramilitary wing of the Democratic party, and it was used to drive Republicans out of the South after the Civil War. Before he took up the cause of civil rights as president, Lyndon Johnson acting as Senate majority leader blocked the GOP’s 1956 civil-rights bill, and gutted Eisenhower’s 1957 Civil Rights Act. Democratic senators filibustered the GOP’s 1960 Civil Rights Act. “
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/s … john-fund/
Did you know that Al Gore's father tried to fillibuser the 1960s Civil Rights Act?
Opposed integration? I challenge you to provide proof of such a claim.
You want to talk about the ERA?
“The main support base for the ERA until the late 1960s was among middle class Republican women.”
Democrats?
“At the Democratic National Convention in 1960, a proposal to endorse the ERA was rejected after it met explicit opposition from liberal groups including the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), the AFL–CIO, labor unions such as the American Federation of Teachers, Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), the American Nurses Association, the Women's Division of the Methodist Church, and the National Councils of Jewish, Catholic, and Negro Women...”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment
So, as usual with most liberals, I'm impressed with a lack of historical knowledge and inability to know facts.You're misunderstanding the basic difference between conservatives and progressives.
Progressives advocate for change. Conservatives do not. It is the definition of conservative. It's what conservative means. You can't have it both ways.
The Democrats who opposed Civil Rights are the Republicans of today. Conservatives always do this - ooh, look, Republicans did this in 1860. They're not the same as today's Republicans. I'm talking about ideology.
The ideology of conservatives, regardless of political affiliation, is to resist change. Anything that was a change, they resisted.
The ideology of progressives is to welcome change. I'm talking about ideology. The ideology of a conservative is to advocate for the status quo.
You are using historical facts out of context. The Republican party of 1860 would be the Democratic Party today. Abraham Lincoln would be a Democrat, not a Republican. The ideology was different.
I shouldn't have said "Republicans" above. I should have said "conservatives". That was my mistake.If that is what you want to think...okay. I couldn't disagree more.
This is why it is difficult to have an intelligent discussion with a progressive. Your thoughts are based on assumptions, misinformation and a basic lack of knowledge and understanding when it comes to history, the world as well as politics. What frustrates a progressive more than anything is dealing with someone who can see past their facade and knows there is only conjecture in their beliefs, there is no substance.
Progressive ideas are the ideas of tyrants and dictators. My family lived under Stalin and his "progressive" ideology long enough to know what it is about. It is progressives who have committed more acts of violence against Republicans than I have time to list. This is how progressives deal with people who think differently from them.
Resist change? President Donald Trump has changed a lot of things and his Republican base hasn't resisted it at all. I hope he keeps the changes happening. I wonder if that would make him a progressive?I have a Master's degree in History with an emphasis on foreign relations, so if you want to tell me, after years and years of study, what I don't understand, please go ahead, but any reasonable person would assume that I know a lot more than you do about American history and how ideology plays out in politics.
If you want to think that black is white, you are welcome to. Let me just re-emphasize. It is the very definition of conservative to support the status quo. That is literally what it means.
Here is the definition of conservative and why conservatives are called conservative: "holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation".
Are you seriously going to disagree now with the book definition of the word "conservative" and why Conservatives use the word to define themselves.?
This is why you can't argue with right-wingers. You tell them the moon is the moon and they tell you it's the sun.With a Master's Degree in history, I would expect you to make a better argument or accurately cite historical as well as historical sources to make your point. I don't care about arbitrary definitions, only actions.
I could cite tons of historical sources. It wouldn't make any difference to you, just like citing every scientific study on global warming wouldn't make any difference to you. I could literally list more than 1000 studies on global warming, but no conservative would ever care. They prefer to believe some random guy with a Ph.D. in ethnomedicine.
Mike, completely fascinating that your family lived under Stalin, who was certainly the epitome of a tyrant and a dictator, yet it apparently bothers you not at all that Trump exudes many of those same tyrannical and dictatorial characteristics and seems to have much more affinity for people like Kim, Putin, and Duarte, then Trudeau, Merkel, and Macron.
I don't agree with you. Here is how a progressive works. Progressives such as Stalin, Mussolini or even Venezuela's Hugo Chavez only want power. The illusion of a progressive it to make change seem as if it will makes things better. The ultimate goal is always to solidity control over a population. It all begins having the government take control of things. So, President Donald Trump has done just the opposite. He has decreased the control of the government. I see none of his actions to mimic those of a dictator. Kim, Putin, Duarte like Trump? You can't make that argument. Not to a thinking person.
I disagree. I believe they are ALL progressives.
The views of progressives.
"One-party autocracy certainly has its drawbacks. But when it is led by a reasonabley enlightened group of people, as China is today, it can also have great advantages. That one party can just impose the politically difficult but critically important policies needed to move a society forward in the 21st century."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/mark … ive-hearts
I will also point this out:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/busi … eople.html
President Trump called the news media "the enemy of the American people", and now there's been a mass murder by a crazed gunman in a newsroom. Can you see any connection between the gunman and Trump? Could you possible see any connection between the POTUS calling the media "the enemy" and then somebody walking into a newspaper and killing people?
They're the enemy after all. So says our President. If they're the enemy, then their lives are worthless. Should we all be cheering this latest shooting?
After all, enemies were killed.I think you need to know the entire quote. President Trump said "Fake News" is the enemy of the people. Misquoting President Trump only shows desperation.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta … 65?lang=enThe FAKE NEWS media, yes that's what he says. That qualification covers an media organization that he thinks runs fake news, which is all of them except for Fox and Breitbart. Basically, it's everyone else.
So I suppose if a guy with a machine gun went in and shot up and killed people at CNN, that would be okay?"The FAKE NEWS media, yes that's what he says. That qualification covers an media organization that he thinks runs fake news, which is all of them except for Fox and Breitbart..."
Can you prove anything you are claiming?
Do you the Democrats paid off the KKK to hang out at every one of Trumps election rallies and predominatally voted for Trump.
I thought KKK was too proud or stubborn for that.Well, I don't think you and I will agree on anything political. So, all I can say is...Are you living in Columbia now? My friend who lives there likes it. Didn't you live in Canada? Has it been much a culture shock if you've moved? Is doing your art going to change when living in Columbia? Moving from Canada to Columbia is pretty interesting to me.
I was moving to Bolivia, yet new investors came up for Colombia for a self substainable eco villages. Plus give workshops in sculpture and Adobe housing. Construction is an easy adapt for immigration.
Love there cool beaches, women are warm and romantic. Green year round beats 7 months of winter. One of the happiest countries in the world. Much less pollution and politics. Like the new soft anarchy and non believers movement that is happening. lived in other Latino countries and love the culture and friendships.
Your the one missunderstand about conservatives.
Why don’t you ask first before assuming...?
What a novel idea.
Conservatives believes in the Constitution and the Constitution has change built in. It is called the Amendment process. Conservatives want changes to happen slowly and deliberately, where as progressives want changes right now this minute...
That is the main debate.
I will cite two examples...
Aborting and gay marriage.
These should have been voted on by the people and yet the Supreme Court made the decision for us. Look what the result...to this day after 40 some years, half the population still does not agree with that decision.
I think gay marriage will suffer the same fate.
Some of these issues will take time for people to adapt and debate and ultimately convinced. That is the conservative position.I don't think you even understand how our government works. We do not vote on abortion and gay marriage. You say in one sentence you support the Constitution and then in another you want to vote for gay rights.
Can you imagine if we had voted to end slavery, for/against integration, voting rights, equal rights... none of those things would have passed.
Say, let's let the Southerners of the 1940's vote to decide whether lynching is okay.
Let's allow men in 1910 to vote to decide whether women can vote. Let's let business owners decide in 1900 whether to exempt children from working 16 hour days.
Truly, an unbelievable bit of prose there.
You literally don't know how things work.
There's an actual, real, dictionary definition of the word "conservative". Go look it up. The meaning actually applies.Don, I believe when Jack speaks of people voting on an issue decided by the Supreme Court, he is referring to our Representative Republic. We vote on issues by voting representative who represent our views. So, yes we all vote on issues by electing representatives. So, yes, we've voted on slavery, women voting, etc. by electing people to make things legal. That is how slavery ended, etc. I'm surprised this has to be explained to a person with a Master's Degree.
Thanks Don for helping explain how election and democracy and our system and how it works. Also, conservatives do not want to keep the old way the same. The definition of conservative in the dictionary is not what the conservative party ideology.
As I explained earlier, conservative wants to keep the way that has worked down our history, where change is needed, it should be done slowly and debated...and in the case of major policy shifts, an Amendment process is the way to go, and not by judicial fiat.
Also conservatives believe in conservation...of our environment, our planet and our heritage and our history...they don’t want to take down the statue of Robert E. Lee as an example...
Probably the most biased response of the day , congratulations Crank , you've done it again . Courts don't "Roll Back Rights " , the courts check legislated rights with constitutional alignment . You've got to stop reading those Mother Earth Mag . opinion columns .
The KKK was started by Southern Democrats...
Started , supported ,maintained and suspended ..............temporarily I suspect .
But Oh no they say ................KKK sure loves Trump, it seem Republican have their interests at heart. Predominate white, Religious, Hicks, hillbillies, and rednecks. Just can't get a majority vote from non whites.
I knew there is a reason for everything.One time 6 million KKK members. It's really difficult keeping the longest living Hate group in America alive.
Today KKK are down to 6000 members. Wiki described them as a right-wing group.
Since Trump came along, KKK must be experiencing the fastest growing group in AmericaYes, so in your perverted universe, 6000 people can hold the attention of a president who was voted into office by 45% of the US citizens...
My point is the KKK is a fringe of the fringe group which no one cares about until CNN gave them a platform...so people like you can use the race card. Get over it, Trump is not a racist and 99% of the American people are not racist.75% of White People Can’t Even Use the ‘I’m Not Racist, I Have a Black Friend’ Defense.
I guess the majority of non white who didn't vote. non whites thought that Trump has not one racist bone in his body. Irony
If you counted all the nominated, Trump had 9℅ votes, not counting under age.
Yes, KKK is small potatoes compared to the dozens of large white secret societies.Would you not have to be a God to domain in a perverted Universe.
Not my God. Your God maybe... my God teaches tolerance, respect, Golden rule, charity, honesty and compassion...
My God values individual as a unique creation. What does your God stand for? The humanist values nothing. Evolution, survival of the fittest, self gratification, and environmental extremism. They value all life equally down to the last insect.We are bio -organism and love first, not Nationaism or one Religion fighting all others.
We need more love and kindness rather than Religion. My world is non Religious. Religion separate people and don't give a dam about natural environments. Religion has been a major feature of historical conflicts to recent wave of modern terrorism.
I am the king of my domain of diversity is strength as the world is my family. My work is worldclass making self substainable villages and art all natural. Your world wants conflicting Religion, military and political merges together. Your science is obedient under their command.
Your world fight over small bits of compressed carbon, tracts of dirt, addictive mind-altering substances and soccer matches. religious ideology that never ending conflicts of wars on earth to angel and demons for eternity. NWO Globalisation is challenging and changing everything as Religious is a tool and political alliances. At least Qur'an gives permission for defensive warfare.
Ruthless leaders, distorted to justify terrorist bombings using both law/politics and religion to oppress the defenceless.They walks corrupting the earth, destroying wildlife, crops and livestock. That is why many human conflicts unfortunately involve religion.
If you say you are a good Christian, I say you are a good Hippocrite.
Give me love, not corruption, nothing should be centralize.You live in a fantasy and the rest ofus live in the real world. As much you want peace and harmony and love, the world is not all that. There are always groups like ISIS that wants to chop off your heads...
Name one time, a Muslim chop off a head of an American on American soil?
If you came to my country and on my soil and burn my village down and killed my entire family. By insanity, I might consider, chopping off your head.
One eye for eye at worst, dose equal death of a 1000s fold. Especially raping and pillaging an entire race, and culture.
And that has got to be more than a coincidence....
All for family, friends and lovers first.
Think Government is doing a lousy job of protecting us. They should stay out of the creating bussiness, leave it to power of the people to do a bêtter job. Only allow Government to do the small stuff not to run and ruin our lives.I don't know, Mike, the differences between us are great and widening every day. But, I could go to any I Hop in red state country and share some hot cakes and coffee with local residents and get along fine. That is as long as we do not speak about politics. I have done just that for 3 to 4 years.
Credence,
I agree with you. I have relative that are real blatant liberals. There has to come a time when we start caring about each other more than politics. There was a time we could all laugh at things people get so easily offended over today. All in the Family as well as Sanford and Son would never be able to be hit shows today. The movie Blazing Saddles would cause riots if released today. There are times when politics needs to be put aside as well as put in perspective.Yeah, the way we could laugh at ourselves during a time when divisions were no where near as great. A less contentious America, a return to which does not appear to be coming anytime soon....
You remember in Blazing Saddles, when the horse was on the receiving end of a right hook?Credence,
I've watched that movie so many times. I remember that scene. I remember the bean eating scene and so many others. it is one of my all time favorites.
Well, if Bob is a R. Barr or Sally is a M. Waters, we are not going to be friends, but I would work to be gracious and compassionate toward them if I had the opportunity to interact with them. My goal would be to help them, though I expect such an opportunity would be short-lived.
Starting this discussion is a good idea because people who support either party are as widely varied as seashells and stars. All are people, though, and I only have to own my attitude/actions toward them, not theirs toward me.
When people are not rabid about their political views but reasonable in life in general it is easy to find common ground in many areas. That common ground can lead to amazing things if we are patient. Behaving like grownups is one of the primary keys to getting to such a place with any and everyone.
A good part of the reason people have such difficulty with acting like adults is that our society is valuing emotion over wisdom. How we feel about an issue has become more important than looking at all facets of an issue so we can consider dealing with it wisely.
To me personally, conservative means act with caution or conserve. At times in my life that is the best course of action.
Then there is Liberal, it's a time to for expanding like the Universe. A time to risk and explore.
Politican have turn it into two sides fighting enemies. Why wound I want my left side to fight with my right side. Or why would a tree fight with its branches.
When we get rid of Federal Government we can find balance with each other. Then have the strength to go after the true huge source of problems, Bankers and the snytheics.Sigh. This thread started out as such a breath of fresh air. Now it’s just full of people bickering like we do in every other thread.
I guess the simple answer to the question is that we get back to valuing each other over politics by actually wanting to - which clearly many people don’t. Depressing.Your right,
Politics and Religion are more of fairytales to me. Sometimes funny comedy
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