The Right, Conservatives, Republicans prefer Autocracy over Democracy?

1. 79

   Credence2posted 2 years ago

   I find this topic most disturbing as it is a reflection of the goals and aspirations of the American Right wing movement. There is no such thing as it being "fringe" as Trump, Carlson and many Republican Senators avoided direct answers or said that the Orbanz authoritarian regime in Hungary is a model for conducting politics here. It tells me lot about YOU and the kinds of tyrannical behavior and advocacy that you all seem to be comfortable with.
   
   See the Business Insider article. While it is a bit lengthy, it needs to be to lay out the extent and the gall of Conservatives in being tutored as to the degradation of Democracy in America.
   
   https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-sen … son-2021-8
   
   https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics … acksliding
   
   Here we are all watching Putin run rough shod over the Ukraine and intimidating those forme Soviet Republics and all who border Russia with aggression and tyranny, while Republicans and Conservatives right here in America are not far removed from any of it.
   
   
   In the face of all this, i would not support people like this for dog catcher. What is your explanation? Conservatives have dodged these kinds of questions, but no more, it is before you now front and center.
   
   How do you answer?

   replyreport
   1. 94

      Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Cred,
      
      How are you doing this new year?  Hope all is well with you and yours.
      
      Now...on to it.
      
      Is this any different than how the democrats loved a brutal dictator like Fidel Castro?  He is dead but the atrocities of his regime continue.
      
      "Two weeks ago, 114 Democratic Congressional representatives signed a letter to President Biden asking his administration to reverse sanctions against Cuba’s communist regime. Although many Democrats cling to former President Barack Obama’s Cuba thaw policies by opposing such sanctions, not all of them have a history with Cuba’s leaders like the letter’s four leading signatories — U.S. Reps. Barbara Lee, Bobby Rush, James McGovern and Gregory Meeks.
      
      All four of these members of Congress have personally visited Cuba and met with its high-ranking leaders as part of an ongoing effort to build a bridge between the U.S. and its brutal communist military dictatorship. Three of them have offered praise to Castro regime officials."
      
      https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … gime-lack/
      
      Sure, Orbanz is an autocrat, but he has been successful in getting the Hungarian economy doing well and has prevented illegal immigration in Hungary.  ALSO, they do have free and open elections in Hungary and that can't be said for Cuba.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Embargo has done little to nothing to change the political climate in Cuba. It has only acted to hurt the Cuban people rather than help them. Also, easing sanctions would make it harder for the Cuban government to scapegoat America for all of its problems. But currently, particularly with covid, this is very much a humanitarian situation in Cuba.
         
         The similarities between Orban's actions when he lost power, and the GOP now is where I believe
         we have the scariest parallels.
         So Orban, when he was out of power, had a two-pronged strategy. One was that he purged his party of everyone who wasn't personally loyal to him. So he built a party that was just lying in wait for an election when the main sort of left parties would be weak. And that's what happened in 2010.
         But there's also what the other thing that Orban did with these civic circles or groups in Hungary, was that he engaged in a kind of mass mobilization of civil society, and he did it a lot through the Hungarian churches. He mobilized their members. He got them all on board. They already had a preexisting structure. He was mobilizing the  religious Hungarian middle class.
         
         And through doing that, he developed a very reliable base for his own party by feeding them a lot of lines and stoking fear. As I mentioned previously, rewriting Hungarian history, developing a certain version of civic patriotism, developing a kind of intolerance for multiculturalism, and laying the groundwork for what became the kind of Fidesz platform  for when Orban came back to power. So you see that kind of thing happening now with the Republican Party. Its alliance with the evangelical movement, its alliance with other groups that sort of foment, and the militia movement of Oath Keepers, and proud boys and so on. And so all of that means that in addition to the Republican Party organization, you've got a whole civil sector that is mobilized to bring on autocracy.

         replyreport
         1. 70

            Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Mmmmm... sounds familiar.
            
            Democrats can apparently tolerate anything except for Republicans.
            
            A stunning 61 percent of Democrats labeled Republicans as “racist/bigoted/sexist” when asked which words they would use to describe the other party,
            
            ----
            
            CNN on the Republican Party in America.
            
            News anchor Don Lemon didn’t hesitate to paint the GOP with a broad brush. The liberal host professed that Republicans are now the party of insurrectionists, racists, anti-semites, and other bigots. Furthermore, Lemon professed that the GOP is in no position to claim that it rejects hatred and extremism.
            
            -----
            
            CNN documentary: Republicans are racists for opposing Obama
            
            The two-hour prime-time exposé, first reported by NewsBusters, features a who’s who of liberal pundits — many of them former Obama White House officials — who wholeheartedly agree that racism was a driving force behind Republican resistance to the president’s efforts to grow the size of government and centralize power in Washington, D.C.
            
            -----
            
            MSNBC commentator Jason Johnson during a Thursday appearance on “Deadline” called the Republican Party “a cult not radically dissimilar from Al-Qaeda.” 

            replyreport
         2. 94

            Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You ever been to Hungary?  If not, I recommend it.  Many people there speak English.  I would place Budapest as equal to or a little better than Paris or London.  The people there are great.  I have a friend who goes there for medical treatment.
            
            "rewriting Hungarian history, developing a certain version of civic patriotism"
            
            Yeah, like tearing down statues of public figures and changing national holidays...wait a minute...that was Democrats.
            
            "kind of intolerance for multiculturalism"
            
            That's not just Hungary.  That is all over Eastern Europe.  You have to realize the "old style" Catholic church has a LOT of influence in Eastern Europe.  It's like Ukraine.  Most people like things a certain way.  Trust me, I've been there.   
            
            " Its alliance with the evangelical movement, its alliance with other groups that sort of foment, and the militia movement of Oath Keepers, and proud boys and so on"
            
            Yeah, like BLM and Antifa, the left's Communist Party USA as well as Anarchist groups such as the Youth Liberation Front and others...wait that's the Democrat party.
            
            "you've got a whole civil sector that is mobilized to bring on autocracy."
            
            Yeah, but probably not from the Republican Party.
            
            Nice try.

            replyreport
      2. 79

         Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Doing great, Mike, looking forward to our debates in the coming year.
         
         But as always, you gotta spin it to win it....
         
         It is different from Castro, as that was no different from Nixon's detente with China in the early 1970s or Reagan's so called "constructive engagement" policy with apartheid South Africa in the 1980s.
         
         But neither of those men advocated using these regimes as a model for the conduct of our own government. That is what the Republicans are doing as they are terrified with having their ideas compete in the public square for support. It is just easier to "rig" the game in their favor. There can be no countenance given any one who wants to destroy the Democratic process.
         
         A thaw in relations is not an advocacy of the regimes involved, that is the difference.
         
         We have gotten into bed with tyrants that make Castro look like a teddy bear, when it was to our economic interests. The world has moved on from the era of the "Bay of Pigs", and that "global menace" of a small island 90 miles south of American shores perhaps it is time for the GOP to move on as well.

         replyreport
   2. 70

      Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Based on the Business Insider Article I concluded two things, the writer is absolutely taking liberty in shaping his opinions to be fact.   And I would say the word "Democratic" is being substituted for "Progressive".
      
      Now if the article were saying Republican views were a threat to Progressive goals and agendas, or Globalist goals and agendas I would concur and say the article is spot on.
      
      Closing the borders to immigration is not anti-Democratic, it is Nationalistic, it is preserving the integrity of one's borders and one's culture, and it is most definitely against the directives of the EU and the Global Compact on Migration set forth by the UN.
      
      In that context, I could agree.  In terms of being a threat to Democracy, or the Republic, I see more threats emanating from the fringe members of the Democratic Party than I do the Republicans.
      
      Just as I see more infringements on personal liberties and freedoms, as well as on businesses, emanating from states like CA and NY than I do states like FL and TX, and that can be laid directly at the feet of the political parties which control those states.

      replyreport
      1. 79

         Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Same for you Ken, looking forward to a challenging year ahead.
         
         Yes, Republican view are a threat to progressive ideas, that is a given. But advocating extralegal methods to obtain control over a majority based on their fears as a shrinking constituency, won't do.
         
         The Democrats are not using tyrants as a model for their policies, and that is what Orbans is.
         
         The problem is that the Republicans in toto cling to these fringe beliefs in giving credibility to a tyrant. With the exception of RINOs, there is no such thing as moderation amongst them anymore.

         replyreport
         1. 70

            Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I would disagree, there are plenty in the Democratic wing that look to people like Marx, Lenin, the Che Guevara T-shirt crowd... you know the guy that commanded firing squads that executed thousands of men, women and children deemed enemies by the new Castro regime.  That guy.
            
            Sadly many on the "left" such as yourself, were convinced by our Nation's propaganda machine that Trump was the embodiment of every racist and sexist evil and a tyrant to boot.
            
            I believe the majority of his supporters voted for him for the very reasons Michael Moore aptly claimed before the election... Trump was their big F-U to the whole Political establishment that has been screwing them over for decades now.  Democrats and Republicans alike... but the betrayal is far deeper and more sinister on the Democrat side, because they were supposed to be the Party of the workers, of the struggling, of the minority classes, and they sold out to the corporations and foreign interests long ago and far more detrimentally to our Nation than the Republicans.
            
            Ah well, from Trump to Biden... from the frying pan and into the fire... it was a sad day when that frail old man was placed into the Presidency, I doubt we endure his remaining three years well.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               "Trump was their big F-U to the whole Political establishment that has been screwing them over for decades"
               
               But during those decades Mr. Trump has completely changed his political identity to appeal to this new group of voters. How do people find that genuine? How do they not consider they are being manipulated by something so disingenuous?
               Before the turn of the decade, Mr. Trump portrayed himself as a fairly conventional liberal. He declared himself "very pro-choice" on Meet the Press in 1999. The same year, he declared himself "very liberal when it comes to health care" and expressed support for a universal health care system. He was also a big fan of Hillary Clinton, giving to her campaign repeatedly in the 2000s and describing her as a "terrific woman"
               He has had a history of some pretty glaring flip flops on his political positions. He was elected because he morphed into something his advisors  believed would win. It was like he was playing a role on his "reality" TV series for ratings. Nothing genuine or real about either of them.
               I suppose people bought the "F-U to the political establishment" schtick. I'd say it was just an act.

               replyreport
               1. 94

                  Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  "F-U to the political establishment"
                  
                  On this point we agree.  It may be time to hoist the middle digit to the establishment again in the midterm elections.  biden & co. are not doing a good job of making friends and influencing people.  biden is proving to be the driving force behind the increase of Republicans around the country.
                  
                  "Dramatic 14-point shift in party preference during 2021 gives GOP biggest lead since 1995: Gallup"
                  
                  https://news.yahoo.com/dramatic-14-poin … 38091.html
                  
                  I'm sure it pained Yahoo news to write this, but, oh well.
                  
                  "I'd say it was just an act."
                  
                  I would disagree with you.  President Donald Trump fulfilled MANY of his campaign promises.  That is a big reason why Republicans like him so much.  Tax cuts, strong military, making the judiciary more conservative, building a wall, putting America first, moving the Israel embassy to Jerusalem, tremendous economic growth, etc. 
                  
                  Compare that to biden who has screwed up just about everything he's attempted.

                  replyreport
            2. 79

               Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Ken, if you don't mind me saying so, you tend to want to put lipstick on a pig...
               
               What is this stuff about Marx and Lenin, where do you get this from?
               
               Communism is an economic system that has been a fantasy, its foundation is the elimination of private property, the idea of a "classless" society has never really existed and never worked anywhere. It is contrary to human nature.
               
               It has been parroted by the Right as the eternal bogeyman against Civil Rights, fair labor practices, etc. It has all been quite transparent.
               
               Trump embracing an open tyrant and wanting to emulate same is the "FU" to the American people and the principle democratic governance. And, yes, Trump and his followers are that "embodiment". I don't need a propaganda machine, my own two eyes usually work pretty well. Biden as a cadaver can do better.

               replyreport
               1. 70

                  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Too funny, and too close to reality.

                  replyreport