Where are the independent evangelicals?

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  1. dianetrotter profile image67
    dianetrotterposted 2 years ago

    Instead of black and white, is Christianity perceived as Christian (Republican) and non-Christian (Democrat)?  Where do you fit in and why?

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      With some 80+ percent of the country declaring that they are Christian and less than 50% declaring either Democrat OR Republican, it's hard to make that kind of call.  There has not, for instance, been either a Democratic or Republican president that did not declare they were also Christian, and the large majority of Congresspeople do as well.

      A non-believer, I declared "independent" on the voter registration.  Neither party provides a platform I'm truly comfortable with, let alone actually pleased with.

      1. dianetrotter profile image67
        dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        True!  People can say they are whatever they want.  That's why I added the part about the Bible.  Some people pick and choose what they believe.  Christians are to believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and does not change..

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Well, I guess that's a major part of the problem; everyone thinks the bible says something different.  Something they approve of, something they want to be "true", something that they will fit into their lives without trouble.

          1. dianetrotter profile image67
            dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            The problem is more that it is treated as a smorgasbord.  People pick out what they like to use as a? weapon against others rather than study the whole and be led by the Holy Spirit.  That includes reading, so you know; praying to seek God's wisdom and leading of the Holy Spirit; and proceeding as led by God.  How do you know if you are not led by God?  Your actions are not consistent with His Word.

            It sounds crazy to those who have not professed Christ as their Savior.  True believers should want to be in the will of God in everything - not compartmentalize.  It's not automatic..  We get that way through a growth process.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              "How do you know if you are not led by God?  Your actions are not consistent with His Word."

              I guess that was my point; nearly anything people might want to do ARE consistent with His word...as long as the "proper" segments and "proper" interpretation of the meaning of those segments is used.  As there are as many interpretations as there are people, almost any action desired is consistent with biblical teachings.

              1. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                A girl at work was having fights with her landlord.  She told me she was praying for the Lord to send her another apartment.

                I told her to consider that the Lord might want her to change her attitude.  James 1:3  For you know that when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow.

              2. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                God wants us to work on ourselves before trying to work on other people.  We can deceive ourselves thinking that we are right when we are not.  Even if we are right, we should consider that other people have value and we must love them and deal compassionately with them.  Phillipians 2:3  Philippians 2:3 New International Version (NIV)
                3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves,

        2. MizBejabbers profile image90
          MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          They can believe that if they want to. After all we still have freedom of religion in this country, or at least we did the last time I checked. However the earth is an ever-changing planet with humans evolving both physically and soul-wise. How can we possibly continue to view one religious text as the inerrant and unchanging word of God? It was written during a time when people rode "asses" while we fly farther and farther into outer space. (Granted, there are certain concepts that never go out of human decency.) Their temples with their religious leaders were their government. At least that was true until the Roman occupation. We have separation of church and state, but each demands more and more of our income. "Bring ye the tithes into the storehouse" was necessary because it was a storage of grain to get the people through hard times. Did Jesus really say to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's, or is this a Roman-added quotation? Who knows for sure?

          1. dianetrotter profile image67
            dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You are referring to Mark 12:17  in context:  Paying Taxes to Caesar
            …16So they brought it, and He asked them, “Whose likeness is this? And whose inscription?” “Caesar’s,” they answered. 17Then Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” And they marveled at Him. 18Then some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came and questioned Him:

            It was a matter of image and ownership.  Caesar's image was on the money. The Pharisees were asking him a lot of questions to try to trap Him.  They didn't like the fact that He knew more than they did and was teaching compassion and grace.

          2. dianetrotter profile image67
            dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You wrote:  They can believe that if they want to. After all we still have freedom of religion in this country, or at least we did the last time I checked. However the earth is an ever-changing planet with humans evolving both physically and soul-wise. How can we possibly continue to view one religious text as the inerrant and unchanging word of God?

            Response - No He doesn't change.  Thank God!  If He did change it would not be clear as to how we should live.

            Hebrews 13:8 New International Version (NIV)
            8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

            8 passages that address to not add to or take away from Bible
            Revelation 22:18-19
            I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

            Deuteronomy 4:2
            Verse Concepts
            "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

            Proverbs 30:5-6
            Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar. Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.

            Deuteronomy 12:32
            Verse Concepts
            "Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

            Matthew 22:29
            Verse Concepts
            But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.

            Mark 7:13
            Verse Concepts
            thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that."

            Genesis 3:1-4
            Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" read more.
            Matthew 24:24
            Verse Concepts
            "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              "Response - No He doesn't change.  Thank God!  If He did change it would not be clear as to how we should live."

              Are you sure?  Mohammed said he changed his mind, and so did Joseph Smith.  Various Popes have decided His will had changed, from birth control to gay marriage.  Many sects have decided that God is happy with female priests; something that has definitely changed since times past.

              I don't think there is a religion, or a sect of Christianity, that has not seen major changes in doctrine in the past thousand years or so.  Certainly the teachings of Jesus bear almost no resemblance to the God of the old testament!  For that matter I was raised in a small Christian sect that was created in the late 1890's...but has remained unchanged since the time of Christ and is the only true path to God and heaven.

              1. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Anybody can start his/her own cults.  Catholics don't read the Bible (at least the ones I talked to).  A lady asked me, "You mean you read it?"  In contemporary churches, we are all encouraged to bring our Bibles or electronic devices.  Plus we have big tv screens all over the sanctuary.  The pastors are teaching and want us to follow along, learn and apply.

                It is possible to be a Catholic and be a Christian; however, being Catholic does not make one a Christian.  God doesn't force us to do anything.  John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
                16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

                Salvation is a gift, a personal relationship - not a membership
                John 1:12  Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

              2. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                With regard to Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Jehovah's Witness to name a few, they are all considered cults with false teachings.  Christians should be able to identify teachings that are not Biblical and dismiss them.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  It has always seemed more than a little disingenuous to me to declare that anyone not agreeing with your personal interpretation (not you personally, but the generic "your") of the bible isn't a Christian, is a cult, is whatever.

                  Muslims are not Christians, no, but they do worship the same god as Christians and jews.  Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Adventists; all believe in Christ and are thus Christians.  Labeling them as a cult does not change that and certainly does not change the fact that their beliefs are just as valid as yours or mine.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image67
                    dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    As you study the different religions you understand what they do believe.  I won't go into a long dissertation.  I will give two examples:

                    1.  Catholics - The Pope can change what people are to accept as Biblical.  When I was a child, they had to go to confession if they ate meat on Fridays..
                      a.  The Pope anoints people as apostles.
                      b.  The Epistles of the Bible address all Christians as saints.

                    Catholic - The Catholic church calls them saints. The process by which someone becomes a saint is called canonization. ... According to the church, the pope does not make someone a saint -- the designation of sainthood only recognizes what God has already done. For centuries, saints were chosen through public opinion.

                    The Bible - 1 Cor 1:1–2:

                    From Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Sosthenes, our brother, to the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, and called to be saints, with all those in every place who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.

                    2 Cor 1:1:

                    From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God that is in Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia.

                    Rom 1:1, 7:

                    From Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God. To all those loved by God in Rome, called to be saints

                    When Paul wrote letters (epistles) to churches, he called them all saints..

                  2. dianetrotter profile image67
                    dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    Jehovah's Witness believe Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel.  Of course that has changed over time.

                    Christianity - Jesus Christ is the Son of God Who come to take away the sins of the world.

                    Here is a comparison of JW vs Christianity and Bible verses to to with it:
                    http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jwdiff.html

                  3. dianetrotter profile image67
                    dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    There are differences people realize as they study the different religions.  Christianity refers to "followers of Christ" and is a lifestyle..

                    People don't understand any subject until they study it.  That's why first graders start at the basics..  As time goes on, they build on the basic concepts they learned. I don't know why when I hit period, I sometimes get 2.

            2. MizBejabbers profile image90
              MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Diane, I respect you and your right to your beliefs, but you are using a book that I feel is not the "all powerful and infinite word of God" to prove your points. I do not use any part of the OT except the 10 Commandments of the equivalent of the Golden Rule because these are universally found in almost all religions including those preceding the Hebrews and Christianity (Zoroastrianism and Hindu, for example). Why would Jesus go to India or to Egypt to study with their holy men if he were satisfied with the Abrahamic teachings of the temple? Theologians have wondered about Jesus' lost years, and historians and researchers believe that he went to either India or Egypt, or both, to study. Of course that is not in the bible. The Roman church does not want us to know the truth.

              In fact, I believe that Genesis is a legend about space aliens combining their own DNA with Neanderthal DNA to create homo sapiens. My own matrilineal DNÅ contains a small percentage of Neanderthal genes, and so does my husband's. (Ok proceed with the jokes, people.) Why would God create homo sapiens with Neanderthal genes?

              1. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                ?  Velly interesting!  It is so much easier for me to believe the BIble and that all that I need to know is between the covers.

                Aliens, neanderthals, theories about Jesus' unrevealed years, etc., would drive me nuts..  How could anyone be sure of what to believe putting all of that together.

    2. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Kyle J. Howard


      @KyleJamesHoward
      Follow Follow @KyleJamesHoward
      More
      Dear evangelicals, you must work on your exegesis, your lack of applying the word has massive consequences to abuse victims/survivors.

      If 2-3 witnesses was required for an accusation of sexual assualt; no rapist or child molester would EVER be charged with a crime.

      More
      In Deuteronomy 17:6 & Numbers 35:30, two to three witnesses were required for a capital offense.

      Deuteronomy 19:15 has this passage which on the surface can seem to justify a universal claim of 2-3, but historical context is necessary to fully grasp what is transpiring here.

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        And if a single accuser was all that was needed to declare guilt no innocent person would ever escape prison.

        1. dianetrotter profile image67
          dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          When there is one accuser, there is a process we should go through in order to ascertain the truth.  Two women went before Solomon, both claiming that one child was theirs.  One lady's child died during the night..

          Solomon's proposal
          We'll cut the baby in half so that each of you can have half..  The real mother said, "No!"  Give the child to her.  This was how he found out who the real mother was.  She didn't want harm to come to her child..


          1 Kings 3:16-28 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
          Solomon Makes a Difficult Decision
          16 One day two women[a] came to King Solomon, 17 and one of them said:

          Your Majesty, this woman and I live in the same house. Not long ago my baby was born at home, 18 and three days later her baby was born. Nobody else was there with us.

          19 One night while we were all asleep, she rolled over on her baby, and he died. 20 Then while I was still asleep, she got up and took my son out of my bed. She put him in her bed, then she put her dead baby next to me.

          21 In the morning when I got up to feed my son, I saw that he was dead. But when I looked at him in the light, I knew he wasn’t my son.

          22 “No!” the other woman shouted. “He was your son. My baby is alive!”

          “The dead baby is yours,” the first woman yelled. “Mine is alive!”

          They argued back and forth in front of Solomon, 23 until finally he said, “Both of you say this live baby is yours. 24 Someone bring me a sword.”

          A sword was brought, and Solomon ordered, 25 “Cut the baby in half! That way each of you can have part of him.”

          26 “Please don’t kill my son,” the baby’s mother screamed. “Your Majesty, I love him very much, but give him to her. Just don’t kill him.”

          The other woman shouted, “Go ahead and cut him in half. Then neither of us will have the baby.”

          27 Solomon said, “Don’t kill the baby.” Then he pointed to the first woman, “She is his real mother. Give the baby to her.”

          28 Everyone in Israel was amazed when they heard how Solomon had made his decision. They realized that God had given him wisdom to judge fairly.

          1. dianetrotter profile image67
            dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Of all things Solomon could have asked for, he asked the Lord for wisdom..  We don't automatically know what to do in difficult times..  We should always seek the Lord's wisdom.

            1. MizBejabbers profile image90
              MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              I agree that we should seek the Lord's wisdom, but in my belief system and experience, the lord gives us that wisdom from within, not from some book and external preacher or Pope telling us what to do or what is sinful.

              1. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                How do you know that the wisdom from within is coming from the Lord.

                Jeremiah 17:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
                9 “The heart is deceitful above all things,
                And [a]desperately wicked;
                Who can know it?
                10 I, the Lord, search the heart,
                I test the [b]mind,
                Even to give every man according to his ways,
                According to the fruit of his doings.

                1. MizBejabbers profile image90
                  MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Diane, I don't question your fundamentalist beliefs, what gives you the right to question mine?

                  Everything that you have quoted from Jeremiah is designed to make the reader question his/her own freedom to think. It is a matter of control.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image67
                    dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    I did a copy and paste! Do you question mine when you talk about aliens, neanderthals, etc?

                    I prefaced the forum with desire to discuss with Christians.  I do participate on other forums and almost never mention God. Why do you feel I am questioning your beliefs?

    3. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Now if you guys are tired of me, it's ok.  I warned that I want to have a discussion from a Christian perspective.  That's why I try to not get into arguments with people.  I wanted to hear from Christians but I'm willing to talk to whomever wishes to do so.  Thank you guys for your interest!

    4. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I see that my concern is on the heart of many believers.  I guess they just aren't on hubpages! 

      How Do Christians Fit Into the Two-Party System? They Don’t
      The historical Christian positions on social issues don’t match up with contemporary political alignments.

      By Timothy Keller
      Mr. Keller is the founder of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York.

      Sept. 29, 2018

      Nevertheless, while believers can register under a party affiliation and be active in politics, they should not identify the Christian church or faith with a political party as the only Christian one. There are a number of reasons to insist on this.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/opin … elief.html

    5. Ken Burgess profile image87
      Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I think of the over 50 crowd, many still believe that the Democrats are the 'Worker's Party' and the 'Good Will' party, idealized in their mind perhaps with JFK, and/or the Civil Rights movements of the 60s and 70s.

      I think this is far from today's reality, the Democrats are far from being the 'Worker's Party' in the sense that they look out for Middle Class Americans and their interests... nothing they have championed has made it easier for the Middle Class to pay bills or exist today, rather they have been 'handed the bill' so to speak, for the largesse of the Democrat Party's ideology of the past 20+ years.

      Currently, the Democratic Party has brought under its umbrella the extreme version of Feminism today, as well as all the Anti-Capitalist, Anti-America (pro-Globalist), Anti-Border Control arms of our society.

      As such, I also see this extension into religion, and the Republican Party today being the party of Christianity (Conservatism in and of itself is in part a desire to conserve the Christian values the country was founded on/by) where as the Democratic Party today serves as the vessel of all those that identify as non-Christian.

      To coin a phrase 'This ain't your parent's Democratic Party' this is an entirely new party being taken over as we speak by those with a far more radical bent than what separated the parties in the 80s and early 90s.

      1. dianetrotter profile image67
        dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Herein lies the problem.  People are trying to pidgeon whole Christianity within the context of politics..  Christians should not be characterized by political beliefs or affiliation..  We should be basing our decisions to vote on issues based on application of the Word of God. 

        Example - abortion - It should not be that Christians are Republican but based on the fact that a human life is being killed.

        Healthcare - This might make Christians look like socialists or Democrats because the Bible tells us to feed the poor and care for the sick and elderly..

        Our decisions should be independent of political party.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          I think you have it backwards. We pick our party based on our beliefs.
          I wonder how many think in a Red and Blue manner and vote accordingly. None, I hope.

          1. dianetrotter profile image67
            dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            That may be the way you make decision.  In order to select a party first, that means I sign on to everything they advocate.  I do not.  That's why I classify myself as Independent.  I make decisions based on the issue and what God says in His Word about it..

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, but there is a disadvantage in choosing to be an Independent.
              Good Gosh Amighty!

              Preaching much?

              https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kicker/i … 30338.html

              1. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I actually feel privileged.  However, you are entitled to your opinion.

              2. dianetrotter profile image67
                dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I'm reading the Huffington article.  Thank you!

    6. profile image0
      RTalloniposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      In skimming through the comments I see that you want to hear from Christians on this topic so I thought I would offer a direct answer to your questions and add some things to consider.

      Not by me or my circle of friends, but some people perceive Christianity as running along political lines. There are a couple of important things to remember when thinking that perception through. Not everyone calling themselves a Christian is one, and as we all know, there are far too many individuals and groups using the name Christian to further their own agendas.

      The written history behind the Bible's record of events is full of the proofs that people say they seek about the Bible's veracity, but what Christians come to know is that the Bible truly is the living, breathing Word of God with depths we are called to dip into in a prayerful manner.

      Speaking to your topic, dismissiveness of what God tells us in His Word, just like perversions of it, all lead to distorted thinking about what Christianity is and what it is not. As we read in Scripture, though, does the faithlessness of people diminish the faithfulness of God? (1 Cor. 2:14, Ro. 3:3, 1 John 5:20)

      John 3:16 tells us that out of love for His created world God sent His Son. Hebrews 1:1-3 begins one of His descriptions of how He has worked among people, who Jesus is, and why He willingly bore the sufferings of life in this sinful earth and those of the cross. Humans are warned that there is a way that seems right to them, but that their need is the Savior. This life is short; we step into eternity soon. 

      The authority and accuracy of God's Word is continually challenged and mocked. God allows His people to go to Him with sincere questions, to ask Him about difficult things, but what challenging Him and mocking Him means for those doing it is heart-breaking. (Matthew 22:29, John 1:5, 1 Cor. 2:14)

      The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus the Christ is the gospel of salvation to both the Jews and the Gentiles, the democrats and the republicans, the blacks and the whites. Christians become one body in Christ, working to glorify God in our faith and practice, letting His Word grow and refines us. He works with us individually and corporately.

      How we live within the framework of our culture, political persuasion, or race will be affected by the counsel of the Word of God when we are true Christians. The practice of our faith is well covered in His Word: speaking His truths, living at peace with others as much as possible, loving mercy, discerning right from wrong, teaching, helping, and so much more described in terms of love, patience, willingness to forgive, faithfulness in all relationships, and love of mercy. 

      Because all Christians are in a process of learning and growth, of giving up self for God's glory, and of looking for the remaking of earth while being fitted for heaven (2 Peter 3) we have to be careful of letting ourselves get wrapped up in the way words are used and definitions are changed by people to suit their desires. God's definitions are the ones that stand: faith in Christ makes us one in Him (Gal. 3:28, Eph. 2:14, 1 Cor. 12:13).

      1. dianetrotter profile image67
        dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Thank you so much for your comments.  I agree.  I listen to Greg Laurie and others on the radio.  He is praying for a fresh awakening to God's Word and revival.

        1. profile image0
          RTalloniposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          You are welcome. God's Word has convinced me that I am accountable to Him for my thinking, attitudes, and behaviors, showing me that believers need to look at everything through the lens of His Word. How thankful I am to live in this day of grace! (Hebrews 12) 

          One way His convincing has played out in my life is to help me value criticisms and examine myself first, according to His Word. He has helped me apply this concept to other areas of my life. I am far more prone to think critically about republicans than democrats. We always need to clean up our own house first when it comes to evaluating others, whether it is on a small or large scale.

          Revival is the prayer request of true believers. This often comes through praying for understanding of the knowledge He supplies in His Word. Too many want it to come simply through the breath of the Holy Spirit, and it can happen that way, but prayerfully reading His Word, asking Him to quicken it in our hearts and minds, seeking deeper understanding by hearing teaching and preaching that is faithful to the whole counsel of His Word gives a richer, deeper growth that cannot help but become evident to a lost world.

          At the same time as we pray for revival in the church, believers need to pray according to God's Word for others–our families, neighbors, friends, church leaderships, local and national leaderships, community servants like police, fire departments, EMTs, and more. The point of mentioning this is that as we continue to grow we will become more aware of all that God calls us to, for instance, obedience in prayer for the reasons stated in His Word. Life in Christ is so multifaceted that it seems complicated, reaching into every aspect of our lives, but one of the mysteries is the simplicity of humbly agreeing with and trusting His sovereign grace.

          An awakening is what we long for, isn't it? Oh may the grace of God be received, His Word embraced so that hard hearts are brought to the place of submission to His tender, compassionate, powerful love and mercy. It is a wonderful thing to be able to pray with Paul from Ephesians 3:14-19.

          1. dianetrotter profile image67
            dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Amen!  How do you choose when neither choice is acceptable?  I wrote in a candidate for president.  People got mad at me from both sides saying my vote negated the "other person.."  I just couldn't see enough to make me vote for one over the other..

    7. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Should this really be a concern for Christians?  How should this be processed?

      uring his Monday evening show, Fox News’ Tucker Carlson derided pundits for encouraging what he considered the “genocide” of “white male Christians” — the host’s most overt white nationalist dog whistle yet.

      Carlson cited a column by former Bush campaign strategist Matthew Dowd that encouraged “white male Christians” to give up their “positions of power” to those less privileged.  https://www.rawstory.com/2018/10/fox-ne … ifications

    8. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Southern Baptist Conference is dealing with this issue.  J. D. Grear became the Executive DIrector a few months ago.  Churches are segregated and getting smaller.                                                         
                                                                                                                 
      Social Justice (A Gospel Issue?), Christians in the Two-party System, & A Powerful Senate Speech on Sexual Assault

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      Wisdom for Your Weekend is your regular installment of what we’ve been reading (and watching) around the web. Presented to you by Chris Pappalardo, with guidance from Pastor J.D., this is our attempt to reflect Proverbs 9:9: “Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser; teach a righteous man, and he will increase in learning.” While we do not always agree with everything these authors post, we share these resources because we find them challenging and enriching. As we often say around the Summit, when it comes to reading, “Eat the fish and spit out the bones.”

      Video of the Week
      The Important #MeToo Movement and Our Descent into Tribalism, Ben Sasse. On Wednesday evening, Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse delivered an 18-minute speech to the Senate. This is the most compassionate, wise, and prophetic perspective on this week’s hearings that we have come across. Senator Sasse shines a light on the horror of sexual assault, scolds his political peers for pouring fuel on the fire of tribalism, and highlights our toxic obsession with the entire circus. Justin Taylor helpfully provides the full transcript of the speech here, and as Taylor points out, every line of this speech is worth noting.

    9. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Grear cont'd

      How do Christians fit into the two-party system?

      How Do Christians Fit into the Two-Party System? They Don’t. Tim Keller. The Christian faith has implications in every sphere of life, including politics. But that doesn’t mean that Christians should fit neatly into the political contours of our present age. In fact, as Keller argues here, true Christianity should bear fruit that makes us politically bizarre. (This promises to be one of those articles to return to again and again and again.)

      Is Social Justice a Gospel Issue? Kevin DeYoung. Speaking of social issues, DeYoung weighs in on a discussion that has been dominating certain corners of the Christian internet: Is social justice a gospel issue? The answer largely depends on how you define your terms. You don’t have to agree with all of DeYoung’s definitions to agree with his overall premise: “We must be quicker to define our terms than to define our opponents.” Yes, indeed.

      Six Things Your Church May Be Doing Illegally, Aaron Wilson. Too many of us in the ministry world know about these land mines because we’ve stepped on them in the past. (We’re looking at you, #2 and #3.) Smart people learn from their own mistakes; wise people learn from the mistakes of others. Be wise, my friends.

      What You Should Know About Women and Pornography, Mikayla Simpson. Pornography is an epidemic among young men in our society, and the effects are both widespread and horrendous. Less is said about pornography use among women. Some may assume that this is because women don’t look at porn. Tragically, that’s not the case. Statistics show dramatic increases in porn use among young women, and unless the church speaks to this issue, countless women will be struggling in isolation.

  2. dianetrotter profile image67
    dianetrotterposted 2 years ago

    Throughout my time on Hubpages, I have attempted to collaborate, share ideas, hear the voices of others, and give my perspective as a Christian..  I don't state that I'm a Christian unless the issue is clearly a religious issue.  There is so much animus in today's climate and it is blemishing the Christian Htestimony.  Example:



    Franklin Graham

    Verified account

    @Franklin_Graham
    Follow Follow @Franklin_Graham
    More
    Yesterday’s hearing was an embarrassment. Let’s pray that our country will do better than this. Judge Brett Kavanaugh said this has ruined his reputation and devastated his family. Unfortunately, I’m afraid that is exactly what the minority leadership wanted to do.

    Jerry Falwell
    @JerryFalwellJr
    Sep 28
    More
    Conservatives & Christians need to stop electing “nice guys”. They might make great Christian leaders but the US needs street fighters like @realDonaldTrump at every level of government b/c the liberal fascists Dems are playing for keeps & many Repub leaders are a bunch of wimps!

    Beth Moore

    Verified account

    @BethMooreLPM
    Following Following @BethMooreLPM
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    Praying for people in my sphere of relationships who got turned off the faith over hypocrisy & duplicity of those who talked it up to them & manipulated them with it. I thought how many of you may have experienced the same. Just want to say to you this AM, Jesus is not like us...

    Russell Moore

    Verified account

    @drmoore
    Sep 16
    More

  3. dianetrotter profile image67
    dianetrotterposted 2 years ago

    I'd love to have an independent believer discussion with those who consider the BIble to be the Word of God.  God bless!

  4. Michael-Milec profile image61
    Michael-Milecposted 2 years ago

    asking for impossible discussion : the word of God is a life by standard, not a mere conversation

    1. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      True!  It should be walking the walking rather than talking the talk..

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Protestants have a different Bible than the Catholics. Protestants were protesting against the Catholics.
    "Christians" have many different roots and all the various churches have different mission statements.
    Even the Catholic religion has divided and changed/evolved meandered and separated from it's original structure and meaning.
    Now, you want to roll political parties into that whole ball of yarn?

    Christianity – 2.42 billion
    Catholic Church – 1.285 billion.
    Protestantism – 920 million.
    Eastern Orthodox Church – 270 million.
    Oriental Orthodoxy – 86 million.
    Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism – 35 million.
    Independent Catholicism – 18 million.
    Minor branches – 1 million.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      "... seculars have always voted for Democrats at higher rates than for Republicans. But the percent of seculars voting for Democrats isn’t much different than in the early 1960s. And there are also more Secular Republicans now than in the 1960s.

      Moreover, among the activist bases, the trends that do exist—such as the growth of evangelical activists in the Republican Party, or secular activists in the Democratic Party mostly reflects broader trends in American society."
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon … 774af3a882


      PS Independents may or may not be evangelical. In fact, they may be, Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim!

      I guess I don't know why this question, (regarding where the independent evangelicals are,) is being asked.

      Where are they?
      everywhere or no where?

      Are Independents religious?
      Maybe they are not religious?
      What is their influence as far who they will support?
       
      Nothing is cut and dry!

    2. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Many churches that are flourishing are "non-denomination" churches.  The relationship with God is not about a denomination.  The point is not to sit around discusses how many are in one group as opposed to another.  The Bible has something to say about that too:  2 Timothy 2:14  Keep reminding God's people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

    3. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know the statistics and am not interested in knowing them.  My relationship is not based on different historians, polls, etc.  God's W

      ord does not change.  It has been the same since it existed.  It has been translated in many different languages. 

      Although it is impossible to obtain exact figures, there is little doubt that the Bible is the world's best-selling and most widely distributed book.

      http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/wor … on-fiction

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    "Evangelicals can be broadly divided into three camps: traditionalist, centrist, and modernist. A 2004 Pew survey identified Evangelicals as 26.3 percent of the population, while Catholics make up 22 percent and mainline Protestants make up 16 percent.

    Evangelicals have been socially active throughout US history, a tradition dating back to the abolitionist movement of the Antebellum period and the prohibition movement. As a group, evangelicals are most often associated with the Christian right. However, a large number of black self-labeled Evangelicals, and a small proportion of liberal white self-labeled Evangelicals, gravitate towards the Christian left.

    Recurrent themes within American Evangelical discourse include abortion, the creation–evolution controversy, secularism, and the notion of the United States as a Christian nation."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism

  7. shanmarie profile image86
    shanmarieposted 2 years ago

    Interesting question you asked. Personally, I don't consider myself either Republican or Democrat. But I have wondered similar thoughts. If both parties have people who claim to have a strong faith in God, it doesn't seem like it should be so hard to work together. But to answer your question as asked, I would say that if you are a Republican Christian, then that statement seems to apply. At least it does to many that I know. But from someone who considers herself independent, the statement cannot apply. And of course Christian Democrats will argue it as well.

  8. dianetrotter profile image67
    dianetrotterposted 2 years ago

    Unless one is a professing Christian that believe that the BIble is God's Word, what I am saying sounds absolutely ridiculous.  I attempted to add enough information so that people who didn't want to have a discussion about Christians and politics would not be interested. 

    1 Corinthians 1:18 says, "… the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

  9. dianetrotter profile image67
    dianetrotterposted 2 years ago

    I used the term "independent evangelicals" because Christianity is viewed by many from the viewpoint of Conservative v Liberal or Republican v Democrat.  I was not speaking of political independents.

  10. profile image0
    RTalloniposted 2 years ago

    How to choose...prayerfully is the answer for a Christian, but that can sound like a cop out cliche even to immature believers. God expects us to use our minds to consider situations and make the best decision we can based on the information we have, but He also wants us to pray and ask for His wisdom. It is very helpful to ask Him to give us something from His Word to help us think situations through.

    Reports say that your experience is quite common. We had the same experience in our circle of friends, both Christians and non-Christians. To be honest, most supported the republican nominee, but some people who supported either candidate were upset that we were not pro-either one.

    It was a struggle. Some friends refused to vote. No matter what others' positions were, I tried not to be judgmental toward them because it was a very difficult decision to make. I was honestly sick that a man with President Trumps history was who I might have to vote for, but in the end, there was no choice as far as I could see. The alternative was so much worse that I could not do anything that could help put her in office.

    That the heart of the king is in the hand of the Lord no matter who that leader is has certainly become more profound to me than ever, driving me to pray somewhat differently for this president than I have for others. The command to respect the office of leaders in spite of who they are did not really change partly because we have had to do that for a few others. Compassionate prayer for such a leader did not change because I am sobered by what God says about them and because God tells me how to pray for them.

    All that said, to a certain degree, there are a few reasons I have come to change some of my thinking about President Trump. I have come to better understand the concept that people can learn from their past and become more mature in their thinking. I see that he has been mercilessly attacked by the media and other politicians but under that kind of pressure he has pressed forward to make decisions based on advice from some sound advisors. The press loves a diplomat who is weak because they are easily manipulated. This president is no diplomat and he is not weak.

    In spite of a blustery, unpolished personality he has been willing to listen and learn, and a teachable spirit has promise for improvement. By praying for him and his family I can hope that they will come to know how much God loves them and understand how He wants to work in their hearts and minds. Beyond that, by praying for them according to His Word, I can watch with wonder and expectation of what the Lord may yet do in His mercy to them personally and for our country because in all matters the king's mind is like a stream of water in the Lord's hand. Once we understand that He is in control we can calmly trust Him in the midst of storms.

    1. dianetrotter profile image67
      dianetrotterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      When I pray, I thank God that He is sovereign and that nothing happens that He doesn't know about..  I trust that all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.  I also pray for his salvation and that of his families.

      We have to really work on the body of Christ to make sure that we 1) Love God and 2) Love others.  We can then have differences and respect that fact..

 
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