Free Pass to Victimhood

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  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Our society seems to glorify the state of victimhood!

    Isn't it true?

    We give free passes to women who claim they are victims in

    Rape
    Pregnancy
    Poverty

    Wouldn't it be better if they rose to the occasion and prevented it in the very first place?

    How can we help prevent women from becoming victims?


    Surely, we can help them help themselves.

    How?

    1. crankalicious profile image95
      crankaliciousposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      It's important to understand the pernicious nature of conservatism, which by its very definition, opposes change.

      When the status quo was marital rape was okay and women started to come out and say it wasn't, conservatives opposed that sort of change.

      In many countries, where it is legal to murder your daughters if they are raped, women are fighting back against that injustice. Naturally, conservatives in those countries oppose the change.

      As women, in general, have grown louder and louder as they fight for their right to wear the clothes that they want and go to places they want, just like men, conservatives have opposed this every step of the way. Women, they say, should dress conservatively. If they don't, they're asking for it.

      And today, as women collectively realize their power to fight for justice and reveal sexual assaults that may have occurred years ago because they couldn't get the support back then, conservatives oppose those voices.

      At every step of the way where women try to voice their power, conservatives oppose it and tell them to shut up.

      This is the nature of conservatism. It isn't the same conservatives, obviously, but it's the nature of opposing change.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        oh, this is very funny, crankalicious.

        I do not agree that its about political parties and change or no change. I believe it's about human nature and how to deal with the foibles of being feminine in this society ... as in any.

        Woman need help. They are the weaker sex. They have strong legs to run, while men have strong arms to hold, sometimes too tightly. Can they use those arms to protect? I think men knew what this meant in the past.
        Today, not so much and I do not blame the men.

        Yes, women can run, but sometimes they don't run. They stand there, say nothing, get drugged and worse.

        ... and for some, when they do run, its not to school and higher education,  where they could study or learn what they need to survive.

        Women are becoming pathetically weak creatures, even though women's lib brought forth so many advantages. They could be stronger, but not by becoming career women AND mothers. They need to choose one or the other for gosh sakes, at least until the child is in grade school.

        With their new found freedom and strength, they seemingly can have it all, but who pays the price? The child! By abandoning their offspring in daycare's, the children become hyperactive without a mother to focus on, without a mother's guidance. Then the mothers cope with their wild children by giving them Ritalin and Adderall.   

        The best way to assist women is to encourage them is to bring forth love as only women can. To value and nurture their husbands, their young and work to maintain close families. They can extend their love and concern to their neighborhoods, towns, states and country. They can be good role models for their children.

        Instead, they cry about how bad off they are, blame others for their woes, and some even allow themselves to get pregnant with no clue as to who the dads are. Then, they wonder why they are poor, as the government doesn't provide enough for them.

        ... and they really need to get a grip.

        Tough Love, starting with their mothers.
        More Assistance toward reality and survival starting with their fathers.

        In my view, a girl's parents need to help them the most, starting as soon as they are born.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
          Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Hey, Kathryn, you really speak the truth from a woman's point of view. I see that you are fronting for them good. Continue to voice this issue, and good luck.

      2. PrettyPanther profile image83
        PrettyPantherposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        This is an excellent point that will, of course, fall on certain very deaf ears.

      3. jeremymulvihill profile image60
        jeremymulvihillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        crankalicious, it sounds like you really have a negative view of conservatism. I understand that some people or groups may have the attributes or characteristics you stated above but to me conservatism stands for respect of individual liberty. Rape is unacceptable as it violates another person’s liberty. Our constitution uniquely protects individuals from the tyranny of others unlike other countries. To me conservatism is only unwavering and resistant to change because the alternative is to remove the protection of individual property rights including the right to one’s own body. You mention other countries and suggest there are conservatives there. I assure you they do not have the utmost respect for individual liberty as we do. Your failing to understand this point saddens me.

    2. Bored Student profile image81
      Bored Studentposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      "Glorifying" victimhood and supporting victims are two different things. A glorification of victimhood would require widespread admiration of these victims simply because they are victims. I think that some victims are publicly admired, but not because they are victims. They are admired because they made certain brave choices. For example, a rape victim might publicly speaking out against the rapist for whatever reason and the victim will then be glorified. This with example is the only real case that I can come up with that involves widespread admiration for a victim. Maybe you can give me more examples of widespread admiration for a victim of pregnancy or poverty. The vast majority of victims, however, do not get the opportunity to make brave choices, at least not publically and are, therefore, not admired, so their status is never glorified. They still might receive some form of support, depending on the circumstances. For example, in the case of poverty, victims might qualify for some form of government welfare or private charity. I don't think receiving this money or any other type of support is a glorification of victimhood. If you feel as though the support given to victims is a glorification, then maybe you should explain why.

      You ask if victimhood can be prevented. In some cases, we can prevent women from becoming victims. For example, we can educate our boys so that they do not rape women. In the meantime, many women do take certain precautions to protect themselves, but I think it would be ideal if women did not have to take these precautions. I'm not sure how a woman can rise to the occasion to prevent herself from being a victim of rape, pregnancy [against her will], and poverty. As many people have said, rape is never the victim's fault, so I don't see how it could be the victim's responsibility to prevent it. I guess a conservative could argue that a woman should take it upon herself to dress more conservatively. Or she could take it upon herself to not to get drunk and go to parties. Again, many women do take these precautions, but I think it would be ideal if they didn't have to. Drinking and partying should be a luxury denied to women simply because there is a risk of rape, so I wished there just was not any risk of rape. Unfortunately, that's not our current world, but maybe if we get men to stop committing rape, then the world would be a little bit closer to ideal. Additionally, these typical precautions do not always work. I have seen studies that show that a woman's risk of being objectified does not significantly decrease if she dresses "modestly". Obviously, objectification and rape are two different things, but there is no doubt that sexual objectification and sexual assault are very closely tied together. I have also seen conflicting studies about whether modest clothing can prevent rape. Some studies say it can, but others say clothing makes no difference. The reality is that every rape case is different and we cannot assume that a woman who was raped was ever doing something that suggested she was being "careless". Additionally, there is very little evidence that rape is more common in today's era (where women are less "modest") than it was years ago (when women dressed more "modestly"). Rape reports have gone up because women are reporting it, but most agree that the numbers are more or less the same. Some experts have argued that rape has in fact become more common recently because of how porn turns the actors in sexual objects and because of the porn industry's impact in advertising and media, which might be true. However, modest dressing does not stop the porn industry from functioning in the way that it does. So would it be better if she rose to the occasion and prevented it in the first place? Maybe. But sometimes, she can't, in which case she is deserving of all the support in the world. The same goes for poverty and poverty. A woman may work hard to earn a living, but circumstances can turn south for anyone and she should not be denied the support. A woman have use protection or practice abstinence, but protection can fail and women can get pregnant against their will, so she should be given support to help her deal with the circumstances.

      Additionally, once a woman is a victim of rape, pregnancy, and/or poverty, it might be better to rise above the occasion, but it cannot be expected because it is not always easy. We can help women help themselves. We can support them. We can admire those that do manage to help themselves. Many programs and options exist for these women so that they can help themselves.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Rape is very often the fault of the woman.

        1. lovetherain profile image70
          lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          It NEVER is.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            What is your proof? I am honestly curious

            1. lovetherain profile image70
              lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Proof of what? Rape is rape,and the guilty party is the perpetrator.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Rape is ignited by some type of motivation. What is the motivation?

                1. lovetherain profile image70
                  lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  There are several motivations for rape. Power over the victim, sexual release are two that come to mind.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    what else?

            2. profile image0
              promisemposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              You really need to do some volunteer work at sexual assault centers.

              Or I'll gladly introduce you to rape victims at the agency where I volunteer. But they might not let you walk out the door alive if you make that comment to them.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I want to interview a rapist.

              2. jeremymulvihill profile image60
                jeremymulvihillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                promisem, rape is never acceptable and who ever would violate someone’s body deserves to be condemned to the nth degree. However, women do have the unique ability to spark lust in men. By no means am I suggesting that the women you work with motivated their perpetrators.

                I understand that my next statement, most likely, is a small minority, but you can't deny that it’s safer to swim in the ocean without dressing in fish guts. Sharks smell blood and are more likely to attack when blood is in the water.

                I find it ironic that a movement, on one hand, says it’s acceptable to dress however you want and makes fun of the moral argument that says, “dress modestly and sit as if you have a penny between your legs,” and on the other hand, is outraged when a man misreads the signal.

                1. profile image0
                  promisemposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree that men are programmed by nature to respond sexually without much encouragement.

                  I hope you also agree that flirtation because of a misread signal is one thing. Rape is quite another.

        2. IslandBites profile image87
          IslandBitesposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Just to be sure everybody reads what kind of person you are. SMH

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            ... why would you want to suppress the truth?

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Isolating the difficulty leads to the solving of the dilemma.

        3. profile image0
          promisemposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          What an outrageous claim. You might want to get with the times and understand that boys and girls also get raped. Is it their fault too?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You might want to go within and give us your true perspective, from a man's point of view.

            1. profile image0
              promisemposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              And what if I were a man who was raped or molested as a boy? Or does that not count because I'm not a female like you?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                what was SEEN in you?
                (of course, your perspective is still valuable!)

        4. Bored Student profile image81
          Bored Studentposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          For argument's sake, let's say women could do something to protect themselves (even though there is no evidence that women actually can do all that much to make a statistically significant difference in decreasing their risk of rape). Does that mean all the responsibility lies with the woman to protect herself, or does some of it still lie with the rapist? And if some of it does lie with the rapist, do you think it would be productive to educate boys to learn how to respect girls?

    3. Miebakagh57 profile image42
      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Hello, Kathryn, Parents, and wards have a high responsibility in this.
      Let me recalled this from my culture, the Okrikan or Wakirikr's culture.
      Although a parent may give a girl permission to visit her lover, she goes with her junior brother or sister, or mother/father sister or brother child. She is not allowed to go alone.

      Despite this, 20 minutes after the girl left, the parent will visit her at her lover's place or any intended destination to ascertain the reality of her visit. The parent even stays or was detained by the lovers family to accompany the girl home. The exception is that the parent was en route to market as a check on the girls' movement. The mother was asked to come down after buying her wares to take her girl home. Do you westerners have such a culture from time immemorially?

      No girl is allowed to visit at night, never. No girl is allowed to be sent on an errand at night. We highly detested it. This help to prevent rape.

      Westerners gave out too much freedom. Traditionally, a girl, a married woman will only take a drink from the father, and husband and no one else. Not even from a lover. This is to avoid being poisoned to sleep, and the culprit taking advantage of the female.

      I have seen that western culture, do to too much financial freedom has gone liberal. You have too much freedom. Where do you get all this even over your parents? In my culture, the boy or girl is still father or mother to the man or woman with huge responsibility after the parents retiring. Why have you put such fine ethnics into the trash bin? Thank you

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        my word!!!

      2. Aime F profile image82
        Aime Fposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Women being free to go out at night or have drinks with non-family members is not “too much freedom.” It’s having the same freedoms as men have. Rather than restricting a woman’s freedoms why don’t we focus on teaching men not to behave in ways that take advantage of those freedoms.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
          Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          @all forum discussants, Really? But do all men or good boys go out all night drinking and buzzing with girls? Consider your sentences again. Between 6.00and 7.00 I was indoors with my family always, except for emergency situations.

          Once, I was called out while indoors that my paternal uncle is dead at 9.00pm I move out to help to take him to the morgue. Naturally, the night gave us the freedom to go indoors to bed and rest.

          Does regularly patronizing the nights except on essential duties are thefts, pimps, drunks, and vagabonds.

          Good girls go to heavenly like places, not just the church. The home is more heavenly. That is the true freedom for them. Bad girls go to the sin city or rather buzzing places, say the bar. The choice? You make it, right?

          In my Wakirike culture, we do not permit visiting of any sort at night except as mentioned above per emergency of a dead relative. Thank you all.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            "focus on teaching men not to behave in ways that take advantage of those freedoms."

              Just say no.
            that'll teach 'em.

            ... or piss them off.
            so don't act flirty or dress provocatively.

            This is getting boring again.

            .

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
              Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Hello, Kathryn, you have good points here for the menfolk.
              Men, learn to say no to any advances from the girls. Are they your wife(s)?
              "Piss them off."
              Tell them to stop dressing provocatively too.
              If you like, report that bitch to the police.
              Thank you.

    4. peterstreep profile image81
      peterstreepposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      In a society were a president elect tells that he grab them by the p**** and get elected. It is clear that something had to be done.
      The #metoo movement was and (looking at you post) is still necessary.
      I was shocked when I saw so many #metoo hashtags from my friends on facebook. Women who never talked about the incident telling that they too had been raped.
      It is clear that the relationship between men and women need to be corrected.
      It is not that women glorify themselves in victimhood. It is not that there is more rape then 50 or 200 years ago. It is that women come forward and say in public and show how often women are raped that is different.
      The coming out with the #metoo hashtag shows us a mirror of the society we live in..
      And if you as a women patronize all those women who have been raped by blaming them. (oh, they should have run faster...) then who will help you when you are being raped?
      Women have the right to stand up. And only if they do, perhaps, the macho society promoted by presidents around the world could end.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
        Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Hi, peterstreep, yes, women need to partner with men to end the victimhood. They have a mouth to talk. But are they talking? Yes, certain are. Notice I say certain, and not some. These are few between.

        A woman being raped should cry out for help. Otherwise, it is content. If it were in the field far away from human reach, there is the opinion that she is actually raped consent or not.

        Majority of them will, not speak out on the first experience. They are ashamed I presumed. It will amount to humiliation as it is being understood in some circles.

        Be this as it may, they still can help the menfolk or they fellow female-in-confidence by speaking out the wrong done them.

        1. peterstreep profile image81
          peterstreepposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, that's why the #metoo movement is good. It takes the problem out of the taboo corner. Women who were afraid or ashamed to talk about their experiences with violence and rape know now that they are not alone.
          A problem can only be solved when talked about.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, they can talk about it now.... now that its been so long and they have forgotten the part they played in becoming a victim.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Trump was bragging as men do. Why was he bragging?
              thats just Trump. He was commenting on the nature of being a rich guy.
              Sorry if it was open and blatant truth.
              It trumps the idea that women are pure angels with no EGOS.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                PrettyPantherposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                "He was commenting on the nature of being a rich guy."

                True. Rich guys hire fixers to pay off porn stars and other mistresses.  They take liberties because they know their money and power will protect them.  Cosby got away with it for years.  So did Weinstein, Lauer, and others. It is changing, slowly, because people like you who excuse and rationalize their behavior are dwindling while others are becoming empowered and aware enough to speak out or support those who do.

                1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
                  Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  @Kathryn & @PrettyPanther, I appreciated you both. I had somehow noted that big politicians do finance porn. But what advantage is that to the open society? They are idiots. Instead of using their wealth to empower the poor to better society, what is porn offering to the economy in real time? Thank you.

              2. peterstreep profile image81
                peterstreepposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                So if a rich guy grabs you by the p*** or rapes you its ok.
                So what Bill Clinton did was ok. Cheating on his wife. Misusing his power position. And Monika Lowinsky was just a girl gloryfing her victimhood in the media?

                1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
                  Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Hello, peterstreep, I do not consent to such developments. I do not subscribe to it. It seems you miss my previous comment. Go re-read it well again here: "@Kathryn & @PrettyPanther, I appreciated you both. I had somehow noted that big politicians do finance porn. But what advantage is that to the open society? They are idiots. Instead of using their wealth to empower the poor to better society, what is porn offering to the economy in real time? Thank you." Okay? And thanks.

                2. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Meandering thoughts:
                  Did Monica claim victimhood? She got that blue stain under duress?
                  Or did she fall in love with him, which is what she claimed.
                  How ridiculous to fall in love with him ...

                  Now, I'm not saying it wasn't ridiculous of President Clinton, (a Leo,) to carry on an affair with one of the interns right there in the historic and dignified White House before the entire nation!

                  I just hope there are no ewes wandering around shaking their tails in the White House these days!

                  No, Trump would not stoop to it, of course. What president would after Bill's experience? So we're safe there.

                  PS If Trump did that to the American people he would be impeached for absolutely SURE!

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
                    Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    Hello, Kathryn, my friend, I agreed with you. But let President Trump go always with his wife. You remember Pres. Bill Clinton apologized to the US and he was forgiven? That earned him the Presidency for a second term. This time, the US had enough. Any intend Pres. should beware. I am not a US citizen. Thank you.

                  2. peterstreep profile image81
                    peterstreepposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    So you criticise Clinton for having an affair, but don't care about Trump grabbing women by the P*** and f**** a porn star?
                    Is that not applying a double standard?

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
            Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Hello, peterstrep, good talk! Talking in confidence can do wonders. Women are more of good talkers. Talking reveals the problem and proffer the solution.

  2. Live to Learn profile image79
    Live to Learnposted 2 years ago

    Many women don't want that to change. It's wonderful to have your cake and eat it too.

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    What woman wants to be poor, pregnant,(against her actual will,) and/or treated badly?

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Not even an insane woman wants it.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    ... maybe if we let them receive their consequences, (reap what they sow,) rather than reward their bad and ignorant behavior.

    For instance, what is the punishment for murder, in the case of abortion? (Death sentence.) What is the consequence for being unprepared to take on an independent life in today's world? (living on the streets and prostitution. Let them. No financial aide.) What is the price for wearing overly provocative clothing? (Attracting the wrong type of male strangers. Blame the woman.) What is the usual outcome of associating in clubs and bars with men under the influence of alcohol? (Drugging, stalking, rape and who knows what else. Hold the WOMAN accountable.)

    But, we CAN'T!!!! yikes It would be too cruel.

    So, how can we assist them in avoiding sexual assaults and unwanted conception.  How can we help them avoid being unskilled and broke?

    1. Aime F profile image82
      Aime Fposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Teach them to take proper precautions... but also teach men not treat women like objects to do with as they please.

      Make sure that they have access to birth control and have been educated appropriately about said birth control.

      Give them equal opportunities in school and the workplace.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Thank You, I agree.

        But women still have more to do in protecting themselves.
        They can prevent harm by avoiding dangerous people and situations. Women must hold themselves accountable for the bad things that happen to them.

        It can be bad world with bad people.

        I would also add that martial arts training is vital.

        1. peterstreep profile image81
          peterstreepposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          what a nonsense,
          If your house is broken into, do you call yourself responsible. That's the world on it's head. The buglers are responsible. People who are not invited should not come into the house and take stuff, even if the door was wide open.
          If you are raped and are going through an abortion procedure. Should you be killed because you were raped?

      2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
        Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Hi, Aime F, good talk, good talk.

  5. PrettyPanther profile image83
    PrettyPantherposted 2 years ago
    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      its common sense, not old school.

      1. lovetherain profile image70
        lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        It's never a woman's fault if she is raped.

        1. profile image0
          promisemposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Absolutely.

        2. Live to Learn profile image79
          Live to Learnposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          100 percent accurate. But, the standard for crying rape has changed dramatically. Once, it was for nonconsensual sex. At this juncture, it appears anyone can claim it even after they've voluntarily removed their clothes, voluntarily jumped in bed and voluntarily consummated the act.

          1. PrettyPanther profile image83
            PrettyPantherposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            At this juncture, it appears anyone can claim it even after they've voluntarily removed their clothes, voluntarily jumped in bed and voluntarily consummated the act.

            Who did that?

            1. Live to Learn profile image79
              Live to Learnposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              I don't know of anyone in jail for such, but I've heard women admit it was consensual and later question if they had been somehow intimidated because of the person's position or power. They didn't believe that to be true when they performed the act, but want to claim#me too status. Which I think is unfair to women who have been victimized and violently attacked. Rape is a violent act, not an invitation to demonize another human being because you regret a choice made.

              And, although I do find Weinstein to be a filthy pig of a human, I do question why a known pay to play predator was able to keep getting wannabe starlets into hotel rooms. If they said no and he continued on it is not the same as participating and then complaining. And the women traumatized by this horrible man's violence are trivialized by the others trying to piggy back onto their suffering.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                PrettyPantherposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Who is doing that in the Weinstein case, and how do you know?  I haven't heard of anyone coming forward to say they lied about Weinstein assaulting them.

                I hear this a lot, that women falsely accuse men, but when I ask for particulars, none are forthcoming.  Statistics do not back up the assertion that this is more than an extremely rare occurrence, while rape is inflicted upon an estimated 1 in 5 of all women, sexual assault upon 1 in 3.

                1. Live to Learn profile image79
                  Live to Learnposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Define sexual assault. I'm sorry, but my experience has been that women use words that do not accurately reflect the experience. I've seen women flirt and then complain to another man that they were harassed. I've seen women complain that their boobs were being looked at when they were over exposed and on display to be viewed.  I've known women who claim assault when facts don't support the allegations.

                  I know women who have been raped. These women deserve support. I don't think those who participate in the events are victims. I respect women enough to expect them to take responsibility when they should so that we can stand behind them, collectively, when they are taken advantage of. But women are not children. To pretend they are minimizes my chance to be seen as equal, to have full opportunity and I won't do it.

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                    PrettyPantherposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    You said: "And the women traumatized by this horrible man's violence are trivialized by the others trying to piggy back onto their suffering."

                    I asked you: "Who is doing that in the Weinstein case, and how do you know?"

                    You didn't answer the question.

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
            Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Against their will, or under duress?

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              apparently, neither!

            2. Live to Learn profile image79
              Live to Learnposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              You apparently don't understand the meaning of the word voluntary.

        3. Miebakagh57 profile image42
          Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          I agreed.

      2. Live to Learn profile image79
        Live to Learnposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Yes. It is common sense. It's a philosophy that allows for victims to be treated as victims and those who participate in setting the stage to be held accountable for their part.


        The left, today, wants women to have no culpability for any part of a chain of events.

        I'll be honest. My opinion of your opinions is that they go too far, but so does the left.

        1. MizBejabbers profile image91
          MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          So, if a Republican woman is raped it's not her fault, but the Dems go too far? Sounds like you are making a political argument, not a pro-victim argument.

      3. MizBejabbers profile image91
        MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        No, Kathryn, Pretty Panther is correct. You are taking the Muslim position that if any part of a woman is exposed to a man, it is her fault that he is tempted and cannot control his own urges. It was also the early Christian viewpoint, too (Quakers, Amish, etc.) The sexes were separated at public gatherings and some private gatherings,too. Some large old homes with two parlors still exist in my city, one for the women and one for the men.  At the turn of the 20th century women were still wearing skirts below the ankle, long sleeve blouses with collars, high button shoes. It sounds like you are advocating that. Gosh, voting is so sexy, maybe we shouldn't be allowed to vote either. Your suggestions are not helping women, instead you are just enabling men who are misogynist and sexist and need to learn that women were not put here to be their toys.

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    The question is how can we help them... or even each other?
    how can men help them?
    How can a woman help herself?
    to AVOID the consequences?
    ??????

    if I eat too much ice-cream and get fat, I am not to blame myself?
    I should blame the ice-cream
    REALLY?

    BAD ICE CREAM!
    Now what????

    1. PrettyPanther profile image83
      PrettyPantherposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      First of all, women I know already take precautions on a daily basis to keep themselves safe.  Don't go for a walk at night by yourself.  Don't go for a walk in the early morning hours by yourself.  Don't live in a first floor apartment on campus.  Don't have more than one drink.  Don't leave your drink unattended.  Don't accept a ride home from a male friend, even if you know him pretty well.  Check behind the seat before you get in a car.  Lock your doors after you get in the car.  Lock your doors after you enter your house.  Dn't answer the door if you're home alone.  Don't reveal where you live on the internet. 

      Is that enough precautions for you?  Or, do you want to add, don't wear a low cut blouse, don't wear a skirt that shows your legs, don't wear a sexy hair style, don't wear high heels because they're too attractive, don't wear a tight-fitting blouse, don't wear tight jeans, don't wear a man's shirt because guys think that's sexy, don't wear shorts, don't wear makeup that makes you look pretty.  Is there more?

      Second of all, your ice cream analogy  is totally wrong.  One chooses to eat ice cream; one doesn't choose to be touched or assaulted without permission. The ice cream doesn't force itself in your mouth; you invite it in.

      Get it?

      1. profile image0
        RTalloniposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Many women have put themselves in vulnerable positions by their own behavior and clothing. Denying that fact does not help anyone. However, admitting that fact does not mean the men who assault them are free from the consequences of their actions. They do not get a free pass for deciding to assault anyone for any reason.

        Both men and women should take responsibility to protect themselves from situations that have the potential to deteriorate into an assault. If either chooses not to do that and goes ahead with putting themselves in vulnerable situations it is wrong to cry foul when an assault or a false accusation comes their way.

        It is good for women to know that they are more likely to be assaulted in some fashion if they are dressed provocatively. It is a good thing to teach them that they are treated with more respect if they are dressed and behave with self-respect. Rejecting these truths does not make them less true.

        Flaunting wealth has gotten many a person robbed, but that does not mean the robber wasn't a criminal. It is a smart thing to know that provocative clothing does invite an assault, though it is imperative to acknowledge that not all men will choose to assault a provocatively dressed woman. 

        Avoiding an assault is something both men and and women need to work at because so many factors play into these situations. Avoiding a false accusation is becoming a major goal for men and we need to teach boys how easily one can be made against them so they can learn early to avoid one, just as girls need to be taught how easily they can be assaulted but that there are ways to help themselves.

        A related issue is the unrecognized and neglected responsibility of adults to protect children and raise them to protect themselves. Perhaps today's social climate will help parents step up to their role of helping their children understand wisdom in these matters rather than helping to promote the sexualization of children in clothing trends and behaviors.

        So, while it is true that women dressed modestly have been assaulted, it is not fair or wise to say all men will assault them. Much can be said to support these truths, however, the issues are about far more than modesty. The root issue is the condition of the human heart and our need for the transformation God offers through His Son, Jesus the Christ. Denying that truth is an option, but it is an unwise one.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          well, Yes!

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Bad, Nasty Ice cream, but you taste so good! IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!
    You are just too sweet!

    oh thats good... take out the sweetness.

    really good.

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Then there is the issue of abortion.
    Abortion is wrong. Why stop an innocent life?
    The will to be human is obvious, as the process of human development reveals the will to live. Why do we think the woman should be allowed to force her will over the will of a happily developing human?
    We shouldn't.

    What if there were consequences for killing the fetus?
    Wouldn't a couple, both the man and the woman, think twice about having a casual, non committed hook-up?

    This is what I am talking about:
    Prevention.

  9. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    In the case of Kavanaugh, if he did (lightly/jokingly) "assault" the fifteen year old under the influence of beer, it was in the distant past when he was just a kid. He has changed. He has grown up.
    His record proves it.

    How to prevent?

    Christine should have been home: not drinking at such a young age and unchaperoned. Actually, it seems all these adolescent kids had a lot of freedom. Where WERE the parents????

    Christine should have told her parents and they should have had meeting with the boy's parents to deal with the issue.

  10. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Most cases of rape are by known people, not strangers randomly jumping and humping.

    Most rape is by people not in their right minds. Why are they not in their right minds?

    mental illness?
    pharmaceutical use/addiction?
    alcohol use/abuse?
    street drug use/addiction?

    Can we prevent these problems by good upbringing and healthy foods and lifestyles where pharmaceutical use is minimal? preferably  zero.

  11. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    .... why is it so hard to wrap our minds around this fact? Women put themselves on the chopping block by how they act, talk and dress.
    I am not saying they should dress like men, but take a look at the weather forecast women on the news!
    They look like sluts!!!! It makes one wonder how they got these jobs!
    ...

    1. Aime F profile image82
      Aime Fposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      The more you speak the more I think that you are just not a very nice person.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        I'm not!!!

        In the fourteenth century it was said, that "nice" meant 'ignorant!'

        1. Aime F profile image82
          Aime Fposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Ignorance is not exclusive to nice people. You can be a bad person and still be plenty ignorant. smile

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            A nice person can be ignorant and a bad person can be ignorant. What is your actual point?

              - rude people can be (plenty) ignorant, too! wink

            1. Aime F profile image82
              Aime Fposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              You were the one who brought up ignorance. My point was that you are questionable as a human being. That’s all.

  12. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    We live in an egocentrically oriented society. Egoism is promoted everywhere, even on the radio, if you listen carefully.  Watch the movies that Hollywood puts out!  Go to the clubs and see how the girls dress! They love the attention of men and they have been given the green light to get it.

    ... we are not raising our girls or our boys with enough guidance to counteract the influence of marketers and the media ... and why? Because it's so darn hard to earn a living. Women, the protectors and creators of humanity, must go off to work.

    ... without mothers in the home, all sorts of deviations can occur in children, especially  boys, who don't even have access to fathers. We think it is fine to put naturally active boys on Ritalin. We leave boys to their own devices playing computer games of all sorts for hours on end and wandering about on the internet ... where they easily access porn.

    Prevention.

  13. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    I would really like a rapers point of view in all this. Why did HE rape someone?
    What would he say?

    1. Bored Student profile image81
      Bored Studentposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      They've done studies on this on people who are in prison for rapeand other acts of violence against women. Oftentimes, men commit acts of violence against women because they were angry to find out that the woman had the capacity to say no, the capacity to choose a different man, the capacity to have feelings that wasn't serve the man that eventually raped/harmed her, and similar situations. In summary, they all committed these acts of violence because they discovered women were people.

  14. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Isn't it a given that rape is prompted by sexual desire?
    ... since the penis is involved?
    ... and isn't a given that men are physically attracted to the female body?

    ... and isn't it a given that rape is committed by men who have lost control of themselves due to something that has gone wrong in the psyche?

    1. Bored Student profile image81
      Bored Studentposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I think you have a misconception of how the male body works. Many males can feel physical attraction after seeing a scantily-clad woman, but males can still control their sexual impulses after a sexual trigger, even if they have a psychological health disorder. Perhaps the 4-16% of men who are rapists all have a mental health condition, but psychological concerns cannot act alone in causing someone to commit rape. Usually, rapists are also improperly educated on consent, especially on how to handle consent while drinking.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
        Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Hi, Bored Student, do you hold the view that drinking predisposes to rape? But what about a person who does not drink, and yet rape their victims? For instance ministers, and holy men? A drug is not even the cause of rape. It is a control mechanism. Control the sexual impulse. Have a girl for a wife.. Men should dislike girls that dress shabbily! I do. I even encouraged such to dress modestly. Thank you.

      2. profile image0
        promisemposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Agreed. I have been to beaches in quite a few foreign countries where topless women are common (because it's legal).

        I can honestly say I didn't see a single rape or any other bad behavior by men.

        The idea that women deserve rape because of how they dress is utterly idiotic.

        1. Readmikenow profile image97
          Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Gee, here's a topic where you and I agree.  Been to topless beaches in South America and yeah, it's so common and most guys aren't motivated by it. I don't think what a woman is wearing makes any difference.  When I lived in California, a neighbor was raped and the only thing she did was be discovered sleeping in her bed by someone robbing her house. So, I agree with your point.

          1. profile image0
            promisemposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks, Mike. I'm glad we found at least some common ground.  smile

  15. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    So what is the cause of rape?
    Can YOU, IslandBites, tell us?

  16. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Those who molest children SEE something they want
    and they translate this want to sexual want.

    1. profile image0
      promisemposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      And so that's the fault of the child?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        No, but it could be prevented.

        how could it have been prevented?
        don't give the child access to these situations. Parents need to know where their children are and who their children are with at all times.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          In this video, look what the woman herself did!!!!!
          encouraging glances, lots of booze, she gets in his car, a stranger, alone!

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeMeDihwyrg
            ... not saying this is a real scenario, but it could be ... How often does this actually happen??

          1. lovetherain profile image70
            lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Is it a crime if a man rapes a woman in this situation, in your opinion?

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              yes, but my point is she is not a total victim. it could have ben prevented.
              BY HER

              1. lovetherain profile image70
                lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I agree.

                But a person is never at fault for being raped. You can clothe all women in burlap sacks from head to toe, and there will still be rapes. Many.

                it is the rapist's fault, the rapist's crime, for refusing to control their behavior.

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
            Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Hello, Kathryn, I have watched the video with an open mind. The lady has no any right to be there at the odd moment. I would not welcome it either that she is there with her boyfriend or lover. Should she be raped, the blame is entirely on her because she should think twice. Even if the man is her boyfriend, she is at fault. She has every right to prevent it in the first place. Boyfriends, do not take your girls to such places at night. Protect the girl.

            I would not allow a married man to take even his wife to such odd places at such time too. Thank you.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              That odd place is a bar and they are odd places!

    2. Readmikenow profile image97
      Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I would say it could be prevented if a person with these urges controls them or removes themselves from situations where they feel these urges.  Simply because you body wants sex doesn't mean you give into it.  If I always gave into my body's desire for beer and bar b que...I'd be in a heck of a mess. Yeah, I was taught about self control and an early age and it was a good thing.

  17. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    I guess people think I am excusing the man's contribution in all this.
    I am not, that fact should be a given.
    I am shocked that priests get away with sexual assault on children. SHOCKED.

  18. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    How did the women get themselves involved with Bill Cosby?

    Of course it is terrible what he did, drugging (some of (?)) the women and taking advantage of their lack of consciousness. (?)

    But why were the women so taken-in by him?

    by taken-in I mean,

    trusting
    gullible
    accessable
    vulnerable
    easily persuaded
    EASY

    Did he romp up to strangers to jump and hump?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics … edirect=on

    BTW a comment from this link:

    "These women have many things in common. They all heard Bill Cosby accused on national television by Andrea Constand and other women before jumping on the bandwagon to fame and fortune. None of them claimed they were drugged or assaulted by Bill Cosby until an average of 34 years after the event they suddenly remembered after watching the 24hr a day mass media accusations against Dr. Cosby. None of them reported Bill Cosby to the Police, none of them had a drug test done and none of wrote a single letter to anybody about it."

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      In January 2004,

      "Constand went to Cosby's house in Elkins Park, Pennsylvania after a night out with friends. Constand stated that Cosby listened to her complaints about stress. According to Constand, Cosby gave her three blue pills he claimed would help her relax (Cosby would later, in a deposition state that the pills were the over the counter antihistamine, Benadryl; they made her semi-conscious and unable to move. Then, Cosby allegedly touched her breasts and crotch and put her hand on his penis. She further claimed that she woke up around 4 a.m. to find her clothing all over the room.

      Constand returned to Ontario in April 2004. However, she continued to have contact with Cosby and took her parents to meet Cosby at an August 2004 show."

      How come?

      1. lovetherain profile image70
        lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        But a person is never at fault for being raped. You can clothe all women in burlap sacks from head to toe, and there will still be rapes. Many.

        it is the rapist's fault, the rapist's crime, for refusing to control their behavior.

        You gonna ignore this, Kathryn?

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          So, women in burkas are from another world where people have different psychological triggers.

          ... as I stated, the man is to be blamed and punished for assault no matter if it is "sexual" or not. Maybe rape should not be called a sexual assault since everyone seems to think the sexual desire is absent. But we need to run from and avoid dangerous people. After all, humans, like apes, have the capacity to anticipate what someone is going to do based on their behavior, manner and demeanor.

          Now, if you are drunk or whatever, your perceptions are way off.
          Note: don't get drunk when you are alone at a bar or in the presence of strangers.

          You naysayers are just putting me on.
          I don't know why I fall for this!

      2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
        Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Apparently, the girl realized what is going on. She should have reported the incident to a confident friend, her parents, or her minister pastor. Woefully, she introduced her parents to Dr. Cosby But why? Has psychology an answer here? The girl seems to put herself in a situation that is not commended. Thank you.

  19. PrettyPanther profile image83
    PrettyPantherposted 2 years ago

    This thread is nauseating.

    Women in burkas are still raped. I can't believe this conversation is still being had in this day and age.

    Disgusting.

    1. lovetherain profile image70
      lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I want to remind KLH we are ALWAYS on the verge of going back to barbarism. It is mindsets like hers that will tip us over the edge.

    2. IslandBites profile image87
      IslandBitesposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      This.

    3. Miebakagh57 profile image42
      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Women in burkas? Ah ha ha! Ah ah ah!
      Okay, let' take a good look at my culture, the "Iria ceremony" or the maidenhood. It is a pre-marriage culture among the Niger Delta Ijaws. Let's take a specific example among the Okrikans or Wakirikes.

      A girl is traditionally fit for marriage from15-years upwards. At this age, and going for the Iria ceremony, she dresses to kill. What do Imean by that? She dresses provocatively and sexually. She dresses exposing the most sexually sensitive parts of her body. The thigh is exposed. So is the breasts. Underneath the belly exposing the belly button.

      Do you like her as she is? Do you mad by seeing her thighs? Do you have feelings relating to sex? Is your manhood roaring? Is she sexually compact as you desired in mind? Either you give in or back off for another fellow!

      The girls go round all the communities during such ceremony half naked day or night for the purpose of getting a suitor. None is raped.

      Then enters the suitor. She may consent or not. Her fathers' word is final. Should she refused to submit to whom her father approved, she may elope with her lover, whom she wants as her husband. Apparently, she has urged this lover to financed her ceremony, including the feedings which are very expensive more nowadays.

      The suitor the girl's father approved at times seems to be his bosom friend. Like as I said earlier, the girl can elope, but this deny suitor is also watching. He may trap her and rape her. For days, he may have intercourse with her until she becomes pregnant. She may still refuse to marry him. However, his desire to have sex with her is fulfilled. She can still marry her lover if he so desires. Thank you.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        wow! This is fascinating! M57! (Miebakagh)
        not only has this thread been nauseating, it has been boring... until now!

        (well, its still nauseating)

        1. lovetherain profile image70
          lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, it has been nauseating

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You still around?

            1. lovetherain profile image70
              lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              why wouldn't I be

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                its been nauseating AND boring until now!!!

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  I hope Miebakagh sticks around longer too. lol

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
                    Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    Hi, Kathryn, I'' be around long. But I am afraid I can't help it if the Power Company disconnect supply?

  20. Miebakagh57 profile image42
    Miebakagh57posted 2 years ago

    Aime F, Is an enlightening matter like providing the solution to societies much-pressing challenge like rape that leads to pregnancy and poverty be called ignorance? What can it be properly term? And, what are the solution? As a male among the discussants, I think the answer must come from the female members who experienced it much. We male have got to play our part and help out. Thank you

    1. Aime F profile image82
      Aime Fposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I answered the original question. It started out fine.  It descended into ridiculousness once Kathryn decided to blame women for being raped.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
        Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Hello, Aime, good to know. I appreciated your point. That being said, there is no need to express a bit of anger. She's your fellow women, and both of you are initially on the right course. I will not welcome a divided discussion here. I do not like rape. I have three good girls. And I would not like them raped for I know the many evil sicknesses that come with raping a girl or women. Some become mental for years and life due to the trauma. Lately, I read some 20 boys rape a single girl in Indian to death, and the police are now after them. Thank you all and have a time.

        1. Aime F profile image82
          Aime Fposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          There’s every bit of need to be angry when someone blames rape on the person being raped.

          And while I’m sure you’re just trying to keep the peace, I will not welcome a man (or anyone else) to dictate what I’m allowed to be upset by. smile

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
            Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Hi, Aime F, good talk, good talk. And, I respect your view. It is wrong for Kathryn to say that "rape is very often the fault of the woman." I would be angry for this too, but I hold my anger and gave her the benefit of the doubt. Feel free to express your thoughts freely if it will release the tension. Good day.

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Man, you have interesting tales.

          ... meanwhile the casting couch looks so inviting: NOT.

    2. lovetherain profile image70
      lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Everyone can "help out" by learning to control their behavior.

  21. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    A woman should not get raped just because she goes to a bar ...
    A woman should NEVER be raped for any reason, (and that goes without saying, of course,)
    but the psychologically unsound are potentially everywhere and anywhere!
    Women do not have to be "me-too" victims. Women are at least 50 percent to blame in most scenarios! They could have protected themselves.

    Shall we count the ways?

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Good, go on and let's see the examples. Thanks. anyway.

  22. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Apparently, from what we have learned here, rapists are psychologically unsound. Their weapon is their built-in dagger. They could be angry. They are probably nuts.

    It is not the woman's fault that she gets raped in all circumstances, but surely in some circumstances, she could have avoided it.

    Why would someone break into a home and rape someone sleeping in their bed? What if it was a man there in the bed? It is highly unlikely that he would be raped.

    Is a woman to blame just because she is a woman?

    ... well, no.

    But, a woman does need to be more alert than a man wherever she goes, and whatever she does.

  23. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    I wonder if he knows a way to eliminate the need for abortion for the pro-lifers that are around ...
    well, no ...  they are not around here.

  24. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    America is an experiment.
    Just keep observing us.
    We are  the world's specimen.

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Hi, Kathryn, specimen? Too generalized and too dignified. I think the word guinea pig or rather a rabbit will suffice. Thank you, and enjoy the day.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        specimen: an individual, item, or part, representative of a class or whole; example

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          America is an example to the rest of the world. Right now, as you have mentioned, we are revealing what happens when a society becomes too economically and culturally "free."

          I stress boundaries.
          Boundaries promote freedom. Many loose sight of this fact and believe that boundaries themselves are too restrictive.

          This may take some contemplating. It is no easy realization.
          Just look at America as we continue to loose the glue that (has traditionally) kept us from the chaos of too much freedom.

          1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
            Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Good to know. But you veer out of the laboratory. So, the dictionary tells me that a specimen can even be a blood tissue that is why I mention a guinea pig because I am used to it during my Biology practicals.

            But you are on the right track with Americans as an example of a typical specimen. My friend, you are always welcomed. I will later enjoy the day. So, must you. Thank you.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              To what extent does belief in God influence your culture?

  25. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    or stay in at night.  I actually like that solution. The home IS freedom, peace and safety.
    smile

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      You'll be welcomed. As a boy, I was taught east or west, home is to be preferred. But the girl should ensure she is actually within her father's house or in a well-protected environment. Rapists are nuts and empty-headed beasts.

  26. Aime F profile image82
    Aime Fposted 2 years ago

    Dear god.

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Do you get the idea there is a far different culture being represented here?

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
        Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Hi, wilderness, okay. Let's see it, right?

  27. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    For Instance,
    Pro-lifers need to step up to the plate and proclaim that God gave the commandment of no Adultery.

    What if adultery means no sex before marriage?
    Pro Lifers could make this very clear!
    Are they not mostly those who believe in God?

    1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
      Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Of course, these are the very ones. I wonder why they should break the commandment. Like these priests in the Catholic Church which is now trending all over the world. They are having issues with the Pope, and some papal Heads of States in the Catholic world. Good to note lately that some of thee randy priests are being demoted or defrocked. Thank you, my friend, and you are always welcomed.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, God gave us rules to live by to bring about happiness.
        People forget the importance of following God's commandments. They think it is fine to break them. They will not go to hell if they break them, but they will suffer the negative consequences.

        Those commandments are practical principals to live by.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
          Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Hi, Kathryn, my friend. I am glad you come you come up all this way. Why people break the commandments of God knowing the punishments really baffled the mind. Peoples especially those in high positions, like priests, politicians, and so on.

          Recently I read a book called 'Investigation." The character was the richest American in the '50's. Sad to he was regularly committing adultery, and died disgraced.

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          I think in the the old days the act of having sex WAS marriage. A couple would go to into the mountains and do the deed and then come back into town and proclaim they were married. But then, later, one or the other could proclaim it never happened. So, marriage became an important event with family and friends witnessing the ceremony and then making sure the couple abided by the promises they made to each other.

          The point is, "the deed" should mean something. It should not be a random hook-up as it has become. This is not an each-to-their own matter, as the consequences affect us all.

          Treat others as you would have others treat you.

          Do you want others to burden you with demands/expectations of your hard earned money?

          I am not preaching. I am giving logic to live by.
          Love is a given and logic should be too.

          I wonder why logic is so hard to come by these days?

    2. Live to Learn profile image79
      Live to Learnposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus spoke to the woman by the well, commenting in such a way that she knew he knew all about her. He commented on how many times she was married and that the person she lived with was not her husband. Nothing in the exchange was judgemental, just sharing knowledge so she could truly see who he was.

      If God Incarnate does not see fit to take a lack of a piece of paper, or public proclamation as reason for condemnation I wonder why others would.

      Women are equal. Women have rights. They have responsibilities which go with equality and rights which demand they take responsibility for their part in any interaction, but they also have the full weight of the law to protect them against the outcome if they are victims.

      Advocating no sex outside of marriage is ridiculous, has never (in the history of humanity) been practiced and were such an assertion put into common belief would only make women victims and social pariahs. Our society has evolved well beyond such patriarchal bs. Perhaps you should explore Islam, if you don't understand the problems with your advice.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
        Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Live to learn, The act of sex was indeed within marriage, and not religion. Marriage was instituted by the creator God, but religion was designed by man to get to God. Sex was both for procreation and pleasure. Those who rape have just pleasure in mind to fulfill.

        What has sex got to do with religion like Islam? Except that it defined some boundaries? Ditto with Christianity. Religion or culture hinder sexual goals. God intended sex within marriage, and not outside.

        Logic can say you can have sex outside marriage or before marriage. The same logic or reasoning can equally say you have it within the marriage circle. This is what Jesus viewed with the Samaritan woman at the well. She then gets it that doing sex out the laws of God, and equally that of natural rights of man is wrong. Jesus did not judge her, but the woman judged herself right!

        Christianity, Islam, and any other religion can derail you. Sex is best within marriage. Rape is forceful sex outside marriage. The rapist is trying to murder the girl. Thank you.

        1. Live to Learn profile image79
          Live to Learnposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Since you did comment that a woman's place was in the home under her father's eye, I doubt you and I could agree on much of anything.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Sex and marriage go together. Why? because we are not barnyard animals.  In humans, the emotion center which generates love, is situated right next to the sex center in the brain. Sex invariably leads to love as designed by nature. Human development from infancy to adulthood takes years and years of dual parent rearing: Mother and Father. Nature designed it so that human parents would stay together for the sake of long term rearing and the survival of their offspring.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
              Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              How aptly puts! Animals are doing what is naturally required of them, procrastinating. Animals hardly rape a fellow animal. In other words, a male sheep does not rape a female sheep. All sexual intercourse occurs decently and naturally.

              I am inclined to think that man, the higher animal that is made in the image and likeness of the creator God can descend so low to rape a female, who could pass for a sister!?

              Rape is a hater and murder. The punishment is a death sentence or life imprisonment. Rape is below human dignity. Thank you, and have a nice time.

              1. MizBejabbers profile image91
                MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Miebakagh, some animals do rape. Roosters rape hens, in the cat family (lions, etc.), males have been known to rape females. But if the lucky male takes on a female in heat, woe unto him if he tries to walk off before She is finished with Him. If there are no females in heat, rams have been known to rape female sheep.

                http://www.fao.org/docrep/004/X6517E/X6517E02.htm

                You really need to educate yourself before you continue to argue with people who know what they are talking about. Your arguments are religion-based, which are not based on facts.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  - regarding the link regarding HAIR SHEEP OF TROPICAL AMERICA: “Mating behavior is similar to that of other sheep but heat in the females appears to be more evident. The ewes adopt a mating stance in front of the ram and look backover the shoulder to the ram. They stand steady on mounting. In the mating stance the ewe shakes her tail quickly from side to side and this behavior appears to excite the ram which mates repeatedly, at short intervals over the mating period of approximately 48 hours. Rams start chasing ewes approximately 48 hours prior to standing heat. If one or more ewes are not in heat or coming in, the ram will perform rape on any ewe in any convenient crowded situation”.

                  Finally, I looked up the definition of rape:

                  "Lack of consent is key to the definition of rape. Consent is affirmative "informed approval, indicating a freely given agreement" to sexual activity. It is not necessarily expressed verbally, and may instead be overtly implied from actions, but the absence of objection does not constitute consent. Lack of consent may result from either forcible compulsion by the perpetrator or an inability to consent on the part of the victim (such as people who are asleep, intoxicated or otherwise mentally compromised).

                  Duress is the situation when the person is threatened by force or violence, and may result in the absence of an objection to sexual activity. This can lead to the presumption of consent. Duress may be actual or threatened force or violence against the victim or someone close to the victim.
                  Marital rape, or spousal rape, is non-consensual sex in which the perpetrator is the victim's spouse. It is a form of partner rape, domestic violence, and sexual abuse. Once widely accepted or ignored by law, spousal rape is now denounced by international conventions and is increasingly criminalized. Still, in many countries, spousal rape either remains legal, or is illegal but widely tolerated and accepted as a husband's prerogative. In 2006, the UN Secretary-General's In-depth study on all forms of violence against women stated that (pg 113): "Marital rape may be prosecuted in at least 104 states. Of these, 32 have made marital rape a specific criminal offence, while the remaining 74 do not exempt marital rape from general rape provisions. Marital rape is not a prosecutable offense in at least 53 States. Four States criminalize marital rape only when the spouses are judicially separated. Four States are considering legislation that would allow marital rape to be prosecuted." Since 2006, several other states have outlawed marital rape. In the US, the criminalization of marital rape started in the mid-1970s and in 1993 North Carolina became the last state to make marital rape illegal. In many countries, it is not clear if marital rape may or may not be prosecuted under ordinary rape laws. In the absence of a spousal rape law, it may be possible to bring prosecution for acts of forced sexual intercourse inside marriage by prosecuting, through the use of other criminal offenses (such as assault based offenses), the acts of violence or criminal threat that were used to obtain submission.

                  Consent may be complicated by law, language, context, culture and sexual orientation. Studies have shown that men consistently perceive women's actions as more sexual than they intend. In addition, verbalized 'no' to sex may be interpreted as 'keep trying', or even 'yes' by offenders." Wikipedia/Rape

                  1. MizBejabbers profile image91
                    MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    Somewhere in there is the statement that ram's rape unless I clicked on the wrong link.

                2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
                  Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  @MizBejabbers, & @Kathryn, good to know all these. But I think these can be the wild specimens, right? You all can correct me if I am wrong. I had not seen an animal or a bird rape fellow animals or birds. It is hard to know because they are not human beings. Scientists may observe the acts at a very close range, but why should you take their findings for a grant without subjecting such to reality? Can you put it to the test? It's impossible. We all should try to test scientific theories or observations.

                  Grant the fact that animal rape each other, they are not a human being to be prosecuted. Rape is a crime.

                  If animals and birds rape while in heat, are they doing it for pleasure or to release tension? Man is supposed to marry a woman and have sex or else he burns! Sex is for pleasure Forceful sex is still rape, and is prosecutable in the courts of law. A man forcing sex on his wife is assaulted and can be prosecuted as a crime. Thank you, and have a nice day.

          2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
            Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Hi, Live to learn, not just under her father's eyes, but her mother, and all her senior brothers and sisters. In addition, her fathers' relations have eyes on her to advise her and all her small sisters on the role chaste place in marriage.

            I have three daughters and my eyes are completely upon them for good behavior. This is what I do not know about you.

            I ama married man, And as such, I am not in any way after other girls, ladies, or married woman. Believe me you. You are free to go after such. But you have no access to my girls, right?

            Also, remember this: action and reaction are equal and opposite. Bad action reacts back adversely. Sex within marriage is best and excellent. It is blissful. This is how I and you agreed to disagree. Thank you.

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          One just wonders why he is using his built-in dagger. People keep saying it is not because of physical appeal or sexual feelings. I guess he just wants to murder her?
                              because...

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Some would say a woman can rape a man.
            How would that work?

            - yes, this is still a nauseating thread, but we are trying to get to the gist of victimhood and how one has a responsibility in avoiding it.

            For instance, in the philosophy tank (The Y's jacuzzi) a fellow soaker told me that he had been raped by a woman. He explained that she was leaving a little gathering they were attending, but as she said goodby she grabbed him and planted her lips on his, thereby forcing a kiss. He said he was appalled and spit out any germs she might have given him. No, he did not enjoy it. Was this a form of sexual assault?
            I say no, but he thought so.
            Was he a victim?
            Could he have avoided it?

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
              Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Hey, Kathryn, ah ah ah! eh eh eh! A woman raping a man? Ah ah ah!

              I see that this thread is getting interesting every day. It is even educating.

              Yes, a woman can rape a man. But as you depict in your comment, she has not entered the stage where to insert the man's penis into Virginia.

              A woman once rapes a priest. It seems they were friends, but he later delved into the priesthood. A wife can rape her husband when he did not desire sex. But she will do it subtitling. The two daughters of Lot in the Bible can be said to rape their father by drugging him to sleep and had sex with him respectively. They got two children from the act. The thread is still interesting!

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                You are right, it is educational. Something I never wanted/needed to know about, but there it is in the news.

                The more we know, the less likely we are to become victims / the more we can avoid victimhood.

  28. Miebakagh57 profile image42
    Miebakagh57posted 2 years ago

    I think this arises from the creative experience when the man and woman were alone in the garden. Who is their witness? The Creator God. So when they go up the mountain and do sex and returned to say they are married, it is utterly wrong of them.

    The marriage has to be witnessed by at most two or three persons.

    When I married, I went with just two of my relations. My father in law brought two witnesses. Then I and the girl had sex. Then they say well done and thank you. It is not a court marriage, but traditional.

    The money? It is later. But I had made a small payment as a consent. The other part of the money comes much later. Thank you.

  29. profile image0
    Ed Fisherposted 2 years ago

    Who exactly is No Human  or is this some fantasy evil spirit ?

    1. hard sun profile image85
      hard sunposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I'll take that as a clear yes. No human would include you...I think. You used to be ahorse. Horses don't really scare me either though.

      1. profile image0
        Ed Fisherposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Try using YOUR real name .Talk about hypocrisy .

        1. hard sun profile image85
          hard sunposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Dude, how many times do I gotta tell you..look at my profile. It takes one click... Have fun man. I'm here...now I know how you feel.

          1. MizBejabbers profile image91
            MizBejabbersposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Off subject, but yes, I haven't figured that out. HP uses our old names in forums even after we've started using our real names on our profiles and in hubs. It makes it hard to take personal responsibility for what we say on a forum.

            1. hard sun profile image85
              hard sunposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              I agree, I'd rather change hard sun to what my profile says. I'm not feeling that nickname anymore. However, if curious, all we have to do is click on the name..it's not too hard I guess. Ok, I'm done off subject.

            2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
              Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Hi, MizBejabbers, that will serve some of us right should we be banned from the forum for a few days. I think everyone has once been a victim of personal irresponsibility. Thanks.

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image42
          Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          The question is not a horse, or sun, or name, or hypocrisy. It is how we all can help a victim of rape. Are we still focusing on that? Thanks.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Self control, pure and simple, on the part of the woman, self-control on the part of the man.

            Woman need to behave respectfully AT ALL TIMES!

            Men will respect them if they do.

            Is this concept of mutual respect controversial as well???????

  30. Miebakagh57 profile image42
    Miebakagh57posted 2 years ago

    Hello, Kathryn, I do not think mutual respect can solve the issue, though it may be controversial. If a man sees a girl or lady he likes, let him tells her his intention to marry her. That will be fine. There is the inference that he desires sex act with her here.
    At times, the purpose of rape is a hater towards the girls, and as an intent to punish them. This is bad. Talking the question through with counsel is better, is it? Thank you.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      WHY THE HATE?

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
        Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        At times, it seems the rapist tries to get even with the parents of the girl. They were this story of some boys asking the girl to join the cult and help to collect information. The girl refused and inform her father and mother. They were reported to the police.

        When the parents left for work, she was attacked and raped. Eventually, the girl did. Thank you.

      2. lovetherain profile image70
        lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        who's hating?

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
          Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          The rapist.

          1. lovetherain profile image70
            lovetherainposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think that's what she meant.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
              Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Okay, I get it. I thought you ask me the question. Thanks.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                M27 Gave a perfectly fine reason.

                M27: At times, the purpose of rape is hatred toward the girl, and as an intent to punish them."

                Me: WHY THE HATE?

                M27: At times, it seems the rapist tries to get even with the parents of the girl. An incident occurred where some boys asked a girl to join their cult and help them collect information. The girl refused and informed her father and mother. The boys were reported to the police.

                When the parents left for work, the girl was attacked and raped. Eventually, the girl did.... join the cult? or died?

                Why do rapists have such Hate in their hearts? to the point of forcing themselves upon someone? Someone else suggested it is because they are so emotionally deranged. He asked, "Have ever had a panic attack and you don't know how to calm down and get relief?" It is a moment of psychological agony?

                I just wonder if there is a common cause of rape.  The common understanding seems to be that the woman is never at fault. So the rapist uses his built in dagger and lashes out indiscriminately.
                Okay. Good to know.

                Haven't I signed up for Judo yet. Or which is the best martial arts for a woman to protect herself from the psychologically deranged?

                1. Miebakagh57 profile image42
                  Miebakagh57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Hello, Kathryn, this is a real incident. Two men, armed robbers approach a woman intending to rob and rape her. Unknown to them, the lady was a policewoman in plain clothes. When she was attacked, she rebuffs the attacks with Kung fu judo! She immediately arrested both men.

                  Go on join that judo class and learn the ropes. I am glad you did, and this your suggestion, I recommend for all female feme fatal. Thankyou.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    ... especially the femme fatal!
                    !  ha ha !

                    oh you are (M57! not 27, sorry)

 
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