Where are the others? This news is not news at all. This has been going on forever ever since the early days of film...
It is only now that people are coming out to speaking about it...
The big question is who else? Will they come forward and admit their bad behavior?
Where are all the victims? Including some of the big stars?
Who was paid off to stay silent?
How is this any different than the Catholic priest's scandal a few years ago...
The whole industry is corrupt and only now it is being exposed.
Thes celebrities that champion women's rights and gay rights and immigrant's rights and climate change...hypocrites.
Hollywood has corrupted our culture with sex and violence and guns and drugs...
They do not have the moral high ground on anything...IMHO
Cmon, Hollywood corrupting our culture? More bullsh*t, Jack?
I have been hearing this bromide since the imposition of the Hollywood Hays Code standard for movies instituted back in the early 1930's. Don't the rightwinger ever get tired of living in a "The Waltons" type fantasy?
The Right, by very definition, is synonymous with corruption, we ferret that out and we go along way toward progress.
This is not about the right vs. the left as much as you want to make it.
The same goes about race as some of discussion in the past. Not everything is about race...
The right has its fallen heros such as Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly...
The corruption of our culture is real...
It started with the ACLU, who decided very early that the only way to take down America is by taking down some of institutions including religion and family and the Constitution...
The lawsuits to remove God from the public square, set the stage for pornography and sex and drugs and violence all come under the umbrella of the first Amendment...
Hollywood played its role by making some of these movies which portray these behaviors as "normal"...
The public, especially young children were like lambs going to the slaughter.
By the way, with regard to politics, it was Bill Clinton and the Monica Lewenski scandal that made oral sex main stream among teenagers... "oral sex is not sex"...
Don't tell me it is right wing or left wing...
It is orchestrated and designed by some atheists at the ACLU who used our legal system to implement their agenda.
Abused Hollywood stars have blown the whistle on the sexual abuse, etc., from Tinseltown to DC for decades. Let's all pray for the victims, and that the preps will find the Lord and find a renewed spiritual direction. We can exercise our faith and stand against human corruption. People do change, sometimes.
People who were used to turning on the TV to see Leave It To Beaver playing in black and white would have heartaches if they all of a sudden saw what's playing today. Its crazy, it would be apocalyptic to them then! People have just gotten used to the moral decline gradually. Its become normalized. Its evil.
Its not a pretty story to me, but I heard about this evil all my life from afar. Its like night and day to me.
Were you similarly outraged when women accused Donald Trump of sexual harassment?
Are you upset that your country elected a president who is part of the “corrupt” Hollywood scene?
If the answer to either of those questions is “no” then I don’t think you’re in any place to call anyone else hypocrites.
The hypocrisy is on Hollywood. Everyone knows this goes on and they act like they are shocked...
They are also very selective in their outrage.
I had no opinion when Trump's video with Billy Bush was made public and though I was not surprised.
Just like I am not surprised by Weinstein and his antics...
What is surprising is some holkywood diva making their comments afterwards...
And surprised at your reaction accusing me of being a hypocrite...
As I said from the beginning, this is not about politics, it happens on both sides.
It is more an observation of human nature and people with power and money and previledge.
It was true of JFK, Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton and to a lesser degree Trump.
Weinstein got fired from the company he co-founded and kicked out of the Motion Picture Academy. How is that hypocrisy?
Bill Clinton gets impeached but Donald Trump suffers no consequences for the sexual assaults he admits on audio. His supporters dismiss his assault. Now that's hypocrisy.
Finally, a voice of reason! And Aime is making a valid point. Any D will defend Clinton, and any R will defend Trump. That's the basic point this thread brings out.
Most wives who have cheating husbands are humiliated and will go after the women, just as Hillary did. As far as I recall, much of his cheating was actually long term affairs. Even though the White House was in a Gov't. shutdown when the Monica incident occurred, at least a few Secret Service people would have to have been in the WH.. If it sounded like Monica was being raped, or in danger, they would have intervened. She was also 19, a legal age for consent, and clearly consented to Clinton's behavior. He paid by impeachment.
Donald Trump actually admitted to--"how they love being grabbed by the p****" on the Hollywood Access tape. Ivana said he raped her often during their marriage, though that's still legal in backward states. He also paid many women to come to the Presidential debates, but the stations would not allow them to sit in his box.
Both of them behaved badly and were wrong. But we don't vote for a Pope. And this does nothing to help the cause of abuse against women. It's the usual D and R fight, then everyone goes back to their corners.
And mostly, the women who were assaulted are being blamed again for whatever did happen. Or are piling on for money or attention.
All this sniping is ruining the country when important issues are begging for attention.
Shocked to see this from CNN. Talk about a war on women - Weinstein procured women like they were take out food: Clintons and Obama stay mum.
* http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/ … index.html
My proposition is this. All who wants to send a message to Hollywood regarding this Weinstein affair...
STOP GOING TO SEE HIS FILMS....
That is the best thing that can come out of this.
I agree, if people have been going to Handsome Harvey's movies they may want to rethink that. But,...
It seems like a distraction to hand over Harvey after so many decades, instead of continuing to cover for him. The real horror stories and cover-ups of human sex trafficking and pedophile rings will emerge, then and only then will people become outraged. Right now the public in general has been numbed down and dumbed down. The top will be blown off.
Brad Pitt: 'Elite Hollywood Pedophiles Control America'
Many other notable stars have spoken out.
Since Trump became President there have been over 3,000 arrests made for human trafficking and pedophile rings in the US. I lost count months ago. Its hard for me to keep track of them all, there are so many. Many adults and children have been rescued in LA alone. There are many reports on the web, but the liberal media just doesn't want to cover it...not good for ratings or some damned thing. Or, are they complicit?
Senator Steve Scalise, an advocate who was fighting to end pedophilia human trafficking got shot. Thank God, he lived to fight the good fight again. But, he isn't the only one in the fight, there are many. The Trump Adm. and the DOJ are in this fight to stop these parasites that prey upon the most vulnerable.
I don't care to say much more, but I know a lot more...and of that which is to come, sadly it all takes time and hard work. Will see more elite-dirtballs exposed and turned into something you don't even want to put out in the garbage because of the stench.
This wouldn't be possible if we were stuck with the status quo.
The truth about Harvey Weinstein has been suppressed by Hellywood and the media for the past 12 years.
No One Listened to Corey Feldman when He Blew Lid Off Hollywood’s Pedophilia Problem
* http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/no-one- … ia-problem
Everybody called him crazy. It was very brave of Feldman to speak up, as several others have in the past. I see articles saying Hollywood is starting to crumble, etc. Could be, it just a matter of time.
WATCH: 'The View' Mocks Child Star Who Warned of Sex Predators Back in 2013
* https://www.hannity.com/content/2017-10 … k-in-2013/
Sexual assault is a very serious thing. Except when it's Bill Clinton, then it's okay.
As a long time Feminist, the original movement, I have to say, "Where were all the older women who did have to be groped and sexually abused to get a part in a movie"? People like Meryl Streep and Jane Fonda should have been advising the younger women to just say "no" to behaviors like this once they made a few million and were no longer afraid to speak out. Weinstein should have been called out years ago. I think this is shameful--for the Women who claimed to be Feminists.
As far as Harvey, everybody let him slide, so why bother to ruin his career when it's almost over by attacking him now about things that happened so long ago? Why do women wait so long to speak out, and why aren't they fighting for each other? Women have to speak out when this behavior happens, not 40 yrs.later. If a woman keeps allowing this to go on, isn't she avoiding taking responsibility for her own welfare? Doesn't she have any self respect? Laws regarding sexual assault are being overturned and recently one was in NJ, to avoid this sort of thing, where a women can say anything she wants and it flies because she was "traumatized." If she waits so long, she legally isn't going to be protected by saying, "So and so molested me 30 years ago." There are limits in place. I understand this behavior runs rampant in Hollywood, but too many men who had good careers shouldn't lose their jobs before a jury trial finds them guilty.
He was wrong. But I am getting sick of seeing careers ruined by women who should have stood up for themselves in the first place. And the older actresses should have worked with them about their confidence levels. In my Mom's day they called it "the casting couch." It's nothing new. But it won't change unless women stop taking it, and waiting until 20 or more others pile on.
I don't agree with Bill O'Reilly's views, but he was a good journalist, and got kicked out after a brilliant career before any woman proved he did any of the things he was accused of. Again, trial. Same for Bill Cosby. No jury in the US will ever convict him.
This does not apply to children, of course, they need our protection.
However, I'm also sick of Fox News showing the same picture of Hillary with Weinstein. They have no scruples at all. So what if she took donations from him? In politics, that's legal. It's well known the Clintons had an "open marriage", and in the 60s when this was common, people realized it caused more pain than pleasure. Bill's affairs were with consenting women, Monica knew what she was doing, as did the other women who were attracted to a powerful man.. Stop trying to make this a D or R issue, that's wrong.It happens regardless of party.
Open marriage? That's the first time I've heard that excuse. Nice try, I'm not buying it. It is a fact that when the women tried to come out about his abuse they were actually silenced by none other than Hillary herself.
A little fact that you Libs tend to gloss over when rewriting your history books.
This was kind of mind-boggling.
“Why don’t women speak up sooner?” seems to be a pretty common question and the answer is actually very simple. Because when someone is sexually assaulted there is often quite a bit of shame involved. I posted a while ago about a situation that I found myself in with some athletes that essentially rendered me feeling scared and like any voice that resides in my mind telling me to stick up for myself or be assertive was completely silenced. When you’re in a situation that feels unsafe or impossibly inappropriate, especially with a man or men who could easily overpower you both physically and in status, it’s very easy to just do whatever necessary to get out of the situation and then try to distance yourself from it as much as possible. And then once you’ve managed to get the hell out of there and reflect on what happened, often the thoughts are “what did I do to invite that?” or “am I unusual for not wanting to accept those advances?” or “is anyone going to believe me if I do speak up?” and then the answers to those questions are so blurry and scary that staying quiet and trying to move on seems like the best option. There’s shame and guilt attached to it where objectively there doesn’t need to be any, but when you’re in the thick of it... it’s there. It’s there for most people who have experienced sexual assault.
I think it’s very easy, looking at these situations from afar, to say “they should have done this or they should have done that” but at the end of the day no one has any right to dictate how someone should have dealt with being sexually harassed or assaulted or raped.
There’s also a power in numbers. After one person, two people, now multiple people speak out, it feels safer and more comfortable to come forward. So that’s why women take decades to do it. Because they decide pretty quickly after it happens that they’re too ashamed, embarrassed, scared, whatever, to come forward but then a door opens and they can finally walk through it.
Please don’t make women feel bad for not speaking up. It’s a horribly emotional and difficult time. And shaming them for not being quick enough to process it or feel safe enough to express it just adds more fear of judgment to the table. It’s not helpful.
I’m hoping I misunderstood the bit about getting sick of women “ruining careers” over sexual harassment because they didn’t stop it sooner. It seems like you’re making excuses for him/other men because they couldn’t possibly know that it was wrong without a woman speaking up and telling him that it was. Or that there’s some limitation on how long after the fact a man can suffer for his bad behaviour despite women suffering with it for the rest of their lives. So, again, I’m hoping that’s not what you meant. But given the lack of empathy and understanding leading up to that comment, I’m not so sure it isn’t.
I apologize if I am not the most linear thinker. I read the whole thread and tried to comment on too many issues. I certainly want to leave this discussion in a better place.
I am so sorry for what happened to you, and understand the shame involved, even though you did nothing to bring this on yourself. Of course you were fearful, and anyone would be. No woman or man deserves this kind of behavior or attack. I am not looking at it from afar either, we all have personal stories that we keep inside. Also, I have friends who lived through similar situations and know they thought, "What if nobody believes me?" But most of them had someone to tell, to comfort them. I wish you had that, or maybe you did, I don't know you. It was brave of you to come out on this forum, and it will help other women who were victimized. I worded it wrong and got off on too many tangents. You certainly were not to blame.
I am not defending any of these men, I said Weinstein, O'Reilly, not sure about Cosby, but probably they were wrong of some kind of disgusting behavior. But for Weinstein, these were not isolated assaults. Many women KNEW he did this for decades, and the numbers to stand up for victims were already there. I was blaming the women who knew and didn't reach out to younger women to warn them, and come together in those numbers to right those wrongs, so younger women didn't have to suffer that shame. I was part of that Feminist movement of the 70s, and was just about in HS, and fought for the ideals for women to have more power. I still do. And their own sex betrayed them by not trying to protect the younger ones. I cried when I saw the story of a 19 yr. old girl and what Weinstein tried to do. She was strong or forewarned, and did get away.
But I don't take back the limitation. If we keep this secret for 30-40 years, it lets men get away with it more all that time. And then we aren't speaking up for women, if we can't speak up for ourselves. Not in your case, but when so many women pile up on one rich man, I tend to believe it's about money, not sexual abuse. And I am sure about laws changing, because if women are quiet that long, even if they go to court, it's a "he said, she said" and there is no evidence. So the wronged woman can't win, and the man isn't seen as a threat, and may not act like one to everyone. The assaulted one then sort of gets blamed again, when she's trying to fight and make things right. It's so messed up.
And I do know men falsely accused as well, and the first thing they lose is their job, and then they are ostracized. He is innocent until proven guilty in our country, although we know that's BS. I've seen what it's done to the lives of men who are accused by a spiteful woman, who never did a thing. It's getting more and more prevalent in our society, and not the best way for women to exercise their power. So I am trying to see it from both sides. I am not trying to invalidate your pain and suffering. I'm sorry it came out so wrong.
There is no reason to bring Hillary Clinton into this. Yes, in the 60s people had "open marriages" because they wanted to have sex with other partners. As a woman who was married for 34 yrs.,I find that repulsive. We respected our vows. But some people make vows, get tired of keeping them, and try other arrangements. Why is Hillary to blame for Bill's behavior? I don't think she was victimized, I think she was seeing other men too. She was more discreet, and women are always judged more harshly. But that doesn't mean she didn't once love him and wasn't hurt by his bad behavior. It became just a political marriage, but I can't know what's in their hearts. You just want to demonize Democrats. Fox News should be sued for putting up her picture with Weinstein and making this about her. Politics is dirty, and they all take money from whoever gives it.
Actually there is plenty of reason to bring Billary into the conversation because Libs pick and choose when it's okay for the public to be angry about something and when it's not as though they were anointed to be our moral guides. It's called selective outrage, and you're doing it right now.
Go back and watch more Fox News. Whoever made conservatives the arbiters of morality? When it comes to politicians, nobody has clean hands. It's almost a year since the election, why are you still harping on Hillary? Shouldn't you be mature enough to be your own moral guide? Don't answer, I don't want to continue talking to a troll.
“Selective outrage” is not exclusive to the left. This thread is a prime example.
Trump’s little Access Hollywood speech was describing the same type of harrassment that Weinstein has been accused of (“I’m so powerful, women will let me do whatever I want”), and women accused Trump of the similar things, yet you lot were not outraged at all. So not outraged in fact that you elected him president.
No substantiated accusations were ever proven. but with Billary, well that's a different story.
I must have missed the part where the accusations against Bill Clinton were proven.
I started a thread long ago listing Bill Clinton's alleged sexual abuses of women. He did settle out of court on one case to the tune of $75,000 if I remember right. I don't care to go search all over the internet to show you case by case when I already gathered most of it here...
Enabler Hillary Will Drop Out | Bill Clinton's Sex Scandals | Orgy Is
* https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/136 … --orgy-is-
Right, well I scrolled through 21 pages and there was not one shred of evidence to suggest Clinton was guilty of anything aside from your (very wrong) assertion that a settlement is an admission of guilt.
So thanks for that colossal waste of time. I’m not sure what I expected from you but somehow you never fail to disappoint.
No, I'm not going to waste my whole day arguing with an ideologically driven person who refuses to accept reality.
Boy, you nailed that one. Cannot talk to closed minded people, they turn it around on you and attack you. So much for that one pretending to have empathy for victims.
Sometimes I want to believe a person has a heart of flesh, but than I see its a heart of stone.
Nowhere did I say that I do not have empathy for anyone who has been victimized. Nowhere did I say that I believe the women who have accused Bill Clinton of sexual assault are lying. Likewise, I don’t think the women who accused Trump of sexual assault are lying. How about you?
My point was that the amount of proof backing Clinton’s accusers, to my knowledge, is no greater than the amount of proof backing Trump’s accusers. And yet you have repeatedly (as verified by the thread you just linked me to) suggested that one is worse than the other. Why? Why do you hold one so accountable but not the other?
The reality that it’s likely that if a man has multiple sexual assault accusations made against him that there’s likely something to it? I accept that reality. Do you?
Or is there some other reality that you’re speaking of in which proof actually does exist that the accusations against Bill Clinton are more legitimate than the ones against Donald Trump? Because no, I am not familiar with that reality. But I assure you that I am perfectly capable of admitting that I’m wrong and if you were to provide me with something concrete to suggest that I am, I would not refuse to accept it.
And just to clarify, I think Bill Clinton and Trump are both predatory and I wouldn’t throw either of them a vote capable of giving them more power over people... how about you guys?
Thanks for the kind response. Luckily a man that was nearby noticed that something was not quite right and that I was extremely uncomfortable and he came over to make sure I wasn’t left in a dangerous situation. I was able to get out of it before anything too serious happened but I could feel it heading in that direction and I felt suffocated, so I can only imagine how a woman might feel if she wasn’t as lucky as I was and actually had to go through what I feel pretty certain would have followed.
But I still went through the aftermath, to a lesser extent, thinking “maybe I should have felt happier that these powerful men were trying to show me affection”... it’s a very strange feeling. It was like I was trying to talk myself into being grateful for their attention even though I didn’t want it and that there was something wrong with me for not appreciating it somehow. And then once I realized how silly all of that sounded, I got embarrassed that I ever thought of it that way. So I never told anyone about it. I’m not sure if I would have said anything had it actually progressed any further, but I can definitely see why maybe I wouldn’t have. I imagine the shame and confusion is even much worse than what I experienced.
I agree that ideally women should feel safe enough to come forward right away and have people take her for at her word and have her not feel any sense of shame or embarrassment. But we’re not there yet, so I can’t fault anyone for not speaking up. I was reading something about Courtney Love warning people about Weinstein many years ago and she suffered professionally for it. Isn’t that awful? If you want to tell everyone that someone is hurting people, but that someone is powerful, you get punished. I wish there was a way to change the idea that powerful people have more rights and more opportunity to get away with things but I wouldn’t even know where to start.
False accusations are awful and only make it harder for women who have actually been assaulted to come forward. If there’s any evidence a woman has lied then she should suffer legal consequences. Unfortunately if we start looking to prove that women are lying rather than looking first to find the validity of her story, even less women will come forward than they already do.
I am glad you replied because I felt so bad I really made a mess out of that post! I have to learn to discuss one issue at a time.
You bring out a lot of good points here. It's a shame that as women we never stop wondering if are attractive to men. I guess we are still brought up to think we are supposed to make men happy. And it can be a fine line wondering and blaming ourselves for their gratification, especially at the high price we can have to pay. So I get that it made you wonder. As women we are too hard on ourselves.
You did a good job explaining the awful feelings you felt in the aftermath. It was very brave to bring this up in a public forum too, if you never told anyone. It's good there was a decent man there to help you. But I can understand this isn't something that is easy to cope with, it came much too close. Thank you for sharing your story, it will comfort other women who think they did something wrong when they didn't.
I’m sorry that I made you feel bad. I can be a bit emotional and tend to just go off occasionally.
I’m glad that I could explain it in a way that makes sense, because it is actually very hard to make any sense of.
I also get too emotional . You made perfect sense. I was the one who tried to tackle too many thoughts in one post. You would be a great counselor. Take care of yourself.
Really? I thought he got impeached for his behavior.
Impeachment was a political action. We are discussing legal penalties and in the court of public opinion. Bill Clinton got a pass...and is revered by the Democrats.
Impeachment is hardly a pass and certainly a court of public opinion. Also, to quote Aime, "I must have missed the part where the accusations against Bill Clinton were proven."
And you said nothing in your OP about legal remedies.
By that logic, where is the prove on Harvey W.?
Just the claims of his accusers, like Clinton. Unlike the audio proof of Trump bragging about it.
You see the hypocrisy of it all. If I was Harvey, I would want to be treated as Clinton...
Yes, they should all be treated the same if the level of proof is equal.
So criticize them all or give them all a pass. That’s your choice. But be consistent.
Perfect meme. The Rats all knew about Handsome Harvey, and they didn't care. Their own Rat husbands were no better.
Hollywood Sex Abuse Film 'An Open Secret' Released Online
* http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/h … me-1048706
Its been an open secret!
Is Hollywood sitting on a pedophilia scandal?
* http://theweek.com/articles/731375/holl … ia-scandal
Can we seriously doubt that Hollywood is also turning a blind eye to a very real child sex-abuse scandal?
So now it begins...another Hollywood personality -
https://www.yahoo.com/news/38-accuse-wr … 29031.html
I'm sure there are many good people in the entertainment industry. Hopefully, may more than the not good people. The main thing is those that have been in captive in one form or another get free, and find healing. I have been hearing about so many people speaking up about being abused in Hellywood.
I'm thrilled to see reports of arrests happening all over the US, and victims being rescued from sex slavery. I just wish MSM would cover the child rescues so people could be made aware of the sex trafficking and pedophile episodic everywhere.
This the most recent arrests I've seen. The sting ops have been in full swing. Lots of tears, but there a lots of smiles too. Thank God!
FBI: 60 arrested in Georgia in human trafficking investigation
* http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/fbi-60- … estigation
Maybe read the court documents where Bill lied under oath about having sexual relations with his 19 year old intern in the Oval Office, he was impeached. I'll never understand how he still remained in office. There is something very wrong in the DC swamp....all the way to Helly-wood, and throughout the corporate media.
Did anyone ever hear about Gore and his wife of 40 years splitting up, after sexual abuse changes were filed on Al in Organ? Funny how some things get swept under the rug, while other stories get hyped up on their intended targets.
Those were consensual sexual relations. I’m talking about sexual assault accusations. Surely you understand the difference?
Yeah, that... doesn’t really clear anything up.
What proof is there that Bill Clinton sexually assaulted anyone, beyond the accusations? I haven’t seen anything in my brief readings though given how insistent you ladies are that they’re real and actually happened I have to assume that you’ve looked into it deeper and have more information on the topic. So please, share.
Three of those women (in photo above) have claimed rape and other sexual abuses by Bill Clinton. One woman was raped and beaten into a coma for days when she was a young girl. Hillary defended that piece of dung in court, and is on audio record laughing about. Witch!
It is astounding how this conversation is taking place. The story of Bill Clinton is well known. His abuse of a long list of women going back to Arkansa... How is this even in doubt? With regard to Hillary, it is well known she hired private investigators to go after Bill's accusers...
The media and the American left has given him a pass. He is revered as the great president that saved our economy... In fact, he contributed to the rise of jihad against us that lead to 9/11. The distraction of the impeachment that took our country off the ball for 8 months was one example.
This bring us back to the current problem. Harvey Weinstein and people like him had enablers in their inner circle. Many knew what was going on and allowed to continue because he was a successful producer and people made money off his talents. The same with Bill Clinton. Hillary allowed it to go on knowing full well who he is. She wanted power and Bill was her ticket.
For those new people who did not live through the 1990s. I suggest you go search on Kathleen Wiley. Her story will set the record straight on Bill Clinton, predator in chief.
You know who else has a long list of sexual assault accusations? Oh, please don’t make me tell you. I’m sure you already know.
I am well aware of the accusations made against Bill Clinton and please note that nowhere did I say I think they’re all false, as generally I believe where there’s smoke there’s fire.
What I’m trying point out is that you can look at two men that have multiple sexual assault accusations made against them, and one gets vilified by one group of people because they don’t like him or his politics. The other man gets the benefit of the doubt because a group of people do like him and and his politics. Despite the fact that the level of proof supporting the accusations does not differ. These men and these groups of people are interchangeable. Bill Clinton does get a pass from many liberals. But Donald Trump also gets a pass from many conservatives.
It’s not one side that jumps to these conclusions, it’s human nature to look for flaws in those we dislike and to overlook them in those we do like. It would be cool if everyone could acknowledge this instead of repeatedly putting that burden on “the other side” and failing to recognize it in themselves.
There is no equivalence between Clinton and Trump.
Trump is no boy scout but he is no sexual predator.
You need to put on your objective hat for one moment.
List all that Clinton has done in his whole life and what Trump has done with his.
By the totality of a man, there is no comparison.
The whole Trump persona has been manufactured by the biased media.
He had none of these qualities until he announced he was running for President.
The current state of affairs in our country is dire and, I blame the corrupt media for creating this false narrative.
Trump apologized for words he spoke decades ago, he owned up, that's what a man does. But, they were only words, he didn't do the things his assures said. Some of his accusers were shown to be liars, others just faded away after he won the election, never to be heard from again. Politics is a dirty rotten thing running against the corrupt establishment, and they threw everything they could and Trump and fabricated most of it.
Donald Trump apologizes for controversial video remarks
Donald Trump has been accused of sexual misconduct by 15+ women going back to the 1980s. And yet you are so very comfortable sitting there and asserting that he’s not a sexual predator. That is sad but unfortunately not surprising as it’s what I’ve been alluding to this whole time.
My objective hat is on which is exactly why I’m able to call them both scum.
Don't know the first thing about Trump's sexual misconduct, or even the allegations that have been made.
But I DO know that the being objective does not include assuming that because allegations were made, whether 1 or 1,000, he is guilty of anything at all.
That’s fine, but apply that to anyone and everyone that’s been accused of sexual assault rather than just someone whose political views are in line with yours. That’s what I was trying to get at with whether or not there was proof of guilt when it comes to Bill Clinton’s accusations. If there is none for either, how does it make any sense to assume guilt for one but not the other? Everyone here seems really quick to call Clinton a sexual predator but not Trump, all I’m saying is apply your standards of guilt equally.
I personally feel like if someone is accused by multiple people over several years then there’s a good chance there’s something to it and I personally choose to believe the victims coming forward. People don’t have to agree with that but at least be thoughtful enough to not assume complete innocence or guilt based on politics.
Yes, I agree but you do have to make a distinction between a borish behavior as many men do in locker rooms compared to unwanted assault as claimed by some women against Clinton.
Just like crime have several degrees, so are sexual offenses.
As far as I know, no one is making the same type of charges against Trump. If the situations change, I will re-evaluate my position.
As I said many times, Trump is an egotist, and a showman and a pompous figure with thin skin...but he is no racist and he is no criminal.
Don't know about Clinton's allegations either...except that he was "convicted" of lying to congress and that he DID have (consensual) sex in the oval office with someone other than his wife.
There seems (to me) to be a huge exaggeration going on in many places. As far as I'm concerned the term "sexual predator" does not apply to sexual practices, however offensive to the general public, that are condoned or accepted by the "victim".
But I get that you personally feel that "where's there's smoke, there's fire" (you've said so in regard to this topic). I get that you personally are convinced of guilt, based solely on the fact that there have been accusations made. I only said that that attitude and conclusion does NOT go hand in hand with the concept of objectivity; rather, it is a completely subjective conclusion without basis in known fact. Recall that at one time the whole world said the world was flat, not just a couple of dozen people.
He was asking me to be objective in comparing them. I was being objective in comparing them. When it comes to sexual assault, one is no better or worse than the other as they both have numerous accusations made against them. To compare them as men in general, as a whole, would be incredibly time consuming and I’m not sure it’s possible to objectively say which actions are worse than others so I was sticking to the topic at hand specifically. Which is sexual assault.
My opinion on how guilty or not they are is certainly subjective, which is why I made a point of adding “personally” and “I feel” and “I believe.”
OK. They're both scum because they've both had allegations made against them.
I understand what you’re getting at now. Yes, I added in a little personal judgment in that statement. I should have said what I just did in my last post, so let me fix it:
“One is no better or worse when it comes to sexual assault accusations.
P.S. /end of objectivity - they both suck.”
"P.S. /end of objectivity - they both suck."
LOL On that we can agree, and I've not been following the sex stories for either one (outside of the long ago lie by Clinton). Don't need to to come to that opinion.
We know from official WH documents that Harvey Weinstein visited the White Hose 13 time during Obama's presidency. Nine of his visits were with President Obama himself, including some events together with first lady Michelle Obama.
Then, there's the time that HARVEY WEINSTEIN & JENNIFER LAWRENCE PRESENT BILL CLINTON WITH GLAAD AWARD
* https://www.infowars.com/flashback-harv … aad-award/
Perverts like to celebrate in Helly-wood and give each other awards and applause.
Everyone has flaws. Obama's behavior was always above reproach.
As far as men who assault women, that's a really sick thing. But does it erase the good things they have done, or all the accomplishments of a successful career? Weinstein is different, because his behavior made it hard for women to begin a promising career. But if you want to pick on men based on political party, R Senators and Presidents are just as bad.
"does it erase the good things they have done, or all the accomplishments of a successful career?"
So it's okay as long as they are successful, got it. Harvey gets a pass.
You twisted my words. I believe it's a valid point though. Weinstein has not had a trial by jury, (no matter how awful the allegations are) and until he is convicted, why should a man lose his achievements if he has behaved in other areas of life, mostly referring to career ones? I know it's odious in this case, but the US does believe in "innocent until proven guilty". It's a lie of course, but we pretend to believe it. The man is ostracized immediately and his reputation is ruined. Many of the women have no proof, although in his case it was an open secret.
It may have been wise for them to seek a role through other means. He's not the only one in Hollywood. There is still a matter of personal responsibility on some women's parts. If you walk far and alone on a dark street in a bad neighborhood, aren't you engaging in risky behavior? My Dad was a Corrections Officer before he was a Detective, and he taught me to take care of and think for myself to stay safe.
+1 Well said.
Sadly, the "innocent until..." really is becoming a fairy tale as we increasingly ruin reputations through the use of social media to castigate based on no more than "somebody said". The old hanging mob is growing in strength even if the "hanging" is not a literal rope around the neck.
A new article explain exactly what happened from the inside -
http://deadline.com/2017/10/scott-rosen … /#comments
Those are good survivalist instincts to have been taught. That is praise worthy of your father.
Thanks. At the time I was a teen and thought Dad was too overprotective. But what he taught me served me well, and I still remember every word. I've never been in a situation where I felt I was in danger, and raised my son the same way (although he's a 3rd degree black belt and can defend himself much better)!
Although I agree that each of us must take responsibility for our part in our interactions I think I'm over the mentality I have held which, like yours, believed that there were 'other avenues' which would allow them to pursue their dreams. I think we have to have a change of heart. without it, predators such as the one Weinstein is being portrayed as will continue to find it difficult to understand why their actions are unacceptable.
I don't know how to separate sex from an industry whose job it appears to be to sell sex; but we have to start somewhere, somehow. It is funny that we are discussing a man who has objectified women when the women in question are in an industry where they aspire to be objectified and will only see themselves successful when they have become so. Again, we may be attacking a symptom and not a cause.
Women who understand a course of action will lead to possible outcomes such as these, and conduct themselves accordingly, have a difficult time empathizing. And, rightly so.
Live to Learn,
I agree something has to be done. It's a tough industry to break into, and nobody should be assaulted. It happens to younger men too.
Personal responsibility can only get you so far. Hopefully there's a way to get a foot in the door more easily, or people will fight for one. Women in the music industry face a lot of the same, from what I understand. It's so male dominated.
I don't see the 'male domination' thing as the reason people get abused. People will do whatever they have to do to get ahead. If there were only one sweaty, creepy guy asking, in one avenue toward the goal; it would still be done if people thought it would get them ahead. It's a choice made. Should it be asked of someone? Absolutely not. Should someone acquiesce to the demand? Absolutely not. But, it changes the bar of when and how someone can cry victim when the victim has a choice and chooses what is an unsavory option. All they had to do is say no.
It's a tricky business. You take a person who wants to get ahead in an industry which sells sex. They need to use their sex appeal to make that happen. They use it however it needs to be used in order to do this. It is akin to prostitution but it is one avenue toward success in an industry built on selling sexy.
Like I said. Something needs to change. But, in such an environment I don't think it is reasonable to think it never will.
Here is a shocking story form the past...
Hugh Hefner institutionalised career advancement for sexual favours but he is considered an icon. He was handsome, suave and debonair. He was applauded and never complained about.
Fat, ugly, mangy Weinstein is a boy scout compared to Hefner but he has been destroyed out of court.
Perhaps it's all about looks.
Compare Errol Flynn to Woody Allen for example. One was worshipped by society the other narrowly escaped career loss and is still being pursued by vengeful people.
Here is a list of actresses who worked in Hugh Hefners porn industry.
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