This morning's headlines are laughable - it started yesterday with a so-called bomb which was hand-delivered to George Soros's mail. Now they are everywhere - the White House intercepted one, another at the Clinton's house, former President Obama, now CNN, and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz's offices. Early reports are that the devices are crude at best.
There is no conspiracy by the Right - the culprit is likely a Democrat operative trying to sway public opinion. No one really cares about former disgraced Democrats enough to try anything serious against them. A real threat would be made against someone running currently. Already the NPC's of the left are all bobbing their heads in unison spewing the same pre-programed narratives, which their loyal NPC folllowers will repeat, repost, and recycle.
The desperation of the left to shift the failed narrative of the invaders coming up from the south is obvious and transparent. In yet another failed attempt to shift voters toward the Democrat brand of identity politics, violence, mob thuggery, voter intimidation, and a blatant hatred for America and the rule of law, the left is only hurting themselves. People that were walking away are now running (for their lives) away from these wanna-be Socialists.
Now I'll wait for the hate and discontent to spew forth from the keyboards of loyal Democrats.
This is an utterly ridiculous claim and well beneath you. Tell it to the bomb squads.
Even the Trump administration is condemning it.
Guess all those fake bombs/hoax are vindicating me.....
1. Postage not cancelled
2. Not enough postage
3. Sending mail to CNN for John Brennan
4. Publishing photos of a so-called unexploded pipe bomb
5. Letting anyone near enough of a bomb to photograph it
6. and on and on and on and on
What a blatant political stunt to steer public opinion - shameful
Could be Facebook Russians trying to sow discord prior to midterms.
Then why doesn't Trump call it out? He wildly denies everything else.
Yeah, well, all those victims have one thing in common: they have all been blasted in the so-called "fake media" by El Presidente Trump. The president who praises body slamming reporters and incites violence with his hate-filled rhetoric. Something that should be beneath any world leader (except one aspiring to become a dictator). He provided the incentive for some mentally disturbed follower to bomb the opposition. Why would it profit the Democrats to kill the backbone of their own party?
You won't get any hate mail from me, Ralph, but I believe that if it isn't some right-wing crackpot doing this, it is an attempt by a bunch of right wingers to throw the attention off the hoard marching to our Southern border and the wondering what Trump is going to use to meet them.
Yeah, but what if it was done by a rightist, pretending to be a leftist pretending to be a rightist.
Or even a leftist, pretending to be a rightest, pretending to be a leftist pretending to be a rightist!
Don, your comment is spot on. Because we will probably never know the truth of the acts. Each side will put their own spin on this, the media will put their own spin on it and the American people will never get facts presented which give us the ability to know, exactly, what the motivation was.
Responsible media reports what they are told by people like the police. Media spin belongs to cable news, Facebook autobots and anonymous blogs.
The broader point remains about inflammatory rhetoric provoking violence in this country.
The OP is a good example of it. Democrats all evil. Republicans all good.
"Responsible media reports what they are told by people like the police." without putting a political spin on it, and without "inflammatory rhetoric provoking violence in this country."
Would that we had responsible media - media that reports the whole story without bias.
Responsible media. Kind of an oxymoron in this climate.
Not if "responsible" means "create division, feed hatred and incite violence" all in the name of getting rid of Donald Trump.
All media doesn't fit into one pot. It's like saying all cars are the same just because they all have engines.
I agree, actually. I was disappointed in my favorite outlet, NPR, for biased reporting. Most news I've listened to on their channel recently has been, refreshingly, more balanced.
I am not going to bother with labels or blaming a party.
But you are right, this is as obvious an effort to control the headlines and pull on the heart strings of Americans as could be.
We should consider ourselves fortunate, they have done so much worse, tragic, horrible events throughout history, to manipulate the American populace to go to war, to vote for certain politicians or amendments, that this is trivial and barely noteworthy in comparison.
The Democrats needed to put the Kavanaugh hearings debacle and the thousands of migrants marching to the border on the back burner (and bury them if possible) … the only thing that makes it seem at least originally legit is the alleged bomb sent to Soros, he probably gets those daily, from people in Europe, Canada, as well as the USA.
Maybe that's where the idea originated. Whatever the case, the likes of CNN and MSNBC I am certain are elated that they can spend the next two weeks talking about it.
Whatever the case, the likes of CNN and MSNBC I am certain are elated that they can spend the next two weeks talking about it.
And you know what ,Ken, we are going to just that right up through the Midterm Season. The Right and its advocates only have themselves to blame.
No, no one is to blame.
There are the foolhardy who tune into MSNBC, FOX, or CNN to be influenced and deceived into believing whatever it is they are being spoonfed...
And then there are those that pay just enough attention to know what is going on in the world, but ignore all the bias and ignorant garbage these 'news sites' peddle.
The rest are too busy going about their lives to care about such garbage, or give it much weight to anything they are doing or thinking. Which helps explain why the country usually has less than 40% voter turn out.
Ralph, up until today, I had a lot of respect for you. I just felt like you were misled and I have actually enjoyed debating you. However, I can't say that anymore. Where is your head!
The FBI has just caught the bomber and he is A REPUBLICAN supporter of Trump, and also a person with a long criminal record. His van, which he was apparently living out of, was covered in pro-Republican political stickers. I think there is very good evidence that Trump's rhetoric has inflamed a mentally unstable person to commit at least 13 attempted murders of former and sitting office holders. This is not something to write stupid accusations on HubPages against the other side. And your accusations have really become ridiculous!
The FBI has Cesar Sayoc in custody and are charging him because forensic evidence leads to him. Sayoc, after getting lawyered up, now claims that the bombs wouldn't hurt anyone and that he doesn't want anybody to get hurt. I suppose that he thinks that will help him in his legal battle, but I doubt it. The FBI says that the bombs are not a hoax and is referring to them as "IEDs." Ralph, do you know what IEDs do to our soldiers in the Middle East who are unfortunate enough to detonate one?
I am really disappointed in you and several others who mount your consistent defenses of the indefensible. What further proof do we need that Trump's rhetoric is inciting violence? I thought you were better than this, but I guess I was wrong.
I also feel like the management of HubPages shares part of the blame for allowing a forum to begin with such a ridiculous statement in the first place.
MizBejabbers, it's fake false discussions like these and many others originated by right wingers that will surely be the demise of HubPages: Unfortunately, with very few exceptions, I don't believe a word printed by any right wingers around here and that includes their articles as well as discussion topics: SAD:
In case the anyone hasn't heard, social media is REMOVING Fake Stories so they should either stop the deception or by default, they will continue to contribute to the END of this entire site:
Trump supporters prefer to do a 180 of head and neck "The Exorcist" style before accepting with is before their very eyes...
It's past time for them to give it up. If they continue to defend or support him, they are complicit in the ugliness he peddles. Unless, of course, they are low-IQ and uneducated like my sweet but gullible brother-in-law. I can forgive those Trump supporters. It's the educated, reasonably intelligent ones that I have lost all respect for.
That's it then, all REPUBLICANS need to be rounded up, placed in those FEMA camps they built all over the country, and be 're-educated'... and those that can't be 're-educated', well, they certainly can't be let back into society... this proves it!
Just because a lunatic does something insane does not make it Trump's fault. Cleary, the man had issues long before Trump came along, and just as clearly we have had plenty of lunatics act out throughout history, look at why Reagan was shot in an assassination attempt [below]!
The desire to pin this to Trump and REPUBLICANS is only going to exist with those who were already determined and steadfast against him, those willing and wanting to see this as Trump's fault.
Doubtful this will impact anyone not already in the anti-Trump camp.
A sad story, a scary story even, but no one was hurt.
Insane does not belong to a Party, nor is it caused by a Politician.
"Cleary, the man had issues long before Trump came along"
Doesn't that mean it was all Obama's fault?
Seriously though, I have to question that if fault outside of the man himself is to be found if it doesn't belong to the inflammatory, hate fill rhetoric from the left. Social media, those people that bombs were sent to, Democratic politicians calling for people to follow Trump supporters into restaurants and make a scene, etc. Seems to me they all have more blame in this than the President does, for their combined voices are much, much louder and far more vitriolic and hateful.
I want to delineate the difference between mob inspired violence and group acts, and an insane person acting on whatever voices or delusions he has in his head.
This man is clearly insane, and has been for a long time, and it speaks to the huge issues we have in society today, where the insane are allowed to roam free... even after they have been identified as a threat to themselves and others.
If you are a Police officer, or Nurse or Doctor who works in a hospital that has to constantly deal with such people, you know just as I do our current society/laws has loosed millions of people incapable of caring for themselves, but capable of committing acts of 'insanity' such as this into the public arena to do as they will.
Its truly shameful to see this poor soul being labeled as a 'Republican' as the 'representative' of all Trump supporters and it speaks volumes about the mindset/mentality of those who do so.
It would be far fairer to say what Maxine Waters has espoused is far more representative of the Democrats, as she is an elected representative of the party and stirring her 'followers' to acts of violence.
This man should have been institutionalized long ago, and is no more a Republican representative than John Hinckley.
I think you are spot on. I merely wanted to point out that IF we are to assign blame to anyone for influencing this man, that blame fall as much on people spewing their hatred every day as on Trump.
Consider that the man appears to be very happy with Trump; he likes the President and approves of him. And every day he is subjected to people proclaiming how evil, and how terrible Trump is, demonizing this mans idol with every possible ugly description.
Is it any wonder that this damaged mind took steps to "protect" the image he has formed of Trump?
Here is my question. IF this man was such a supporter of President Donald Trump...WHY would he do something that could potentially harm the president in the upcoming election? It doesn't make any sense. This is NOT something a person who is a real supporter of President Donald Trump would do. I believe there is much more to this story than we know.
A friend of mine who lives in Florida told me the van doesn't make any sense either. You can't drive around in a van with the views obstructed. Too many stickers were covering the windows. He told me this van would have been pulled over and ticketed. Also, there are people who believe this man did not have the mental capacity to make these bombs.
https://wsvn.com/news/local/attorney-un … xplosives/
This doesn't make any sense on so many levels.
His record/issues go back almost 20 years. He lost his house in foreclosure a decade ago and ended up living in his van. He collected unemployment, declared bankruptcy, etc.
He has made claims he is Native American (there goes those theories of being an ardent White Nationalist as is being claimed by a couple of hyperbolic posters here in Hubpages), he even registered a business as Native American (even though he is not recognized as such).
He had run ins with the law in 2002, 2014, 2015, lived a life on the fringe, working in strip clubs, a life of lies and delusions...
He lived out of his vehicle for many years, we are dealing with a man who declined over the years as his mental illness became worse, clearly... yet this is what the 'Left' will spend the next two weeks hanging their hat on, as their 'Republican / Right Winger'.
Maybe they hang their hats on him as a Republican because:
1. He is a registered Republican.
2. He is a dedicated Trump supporter.
3. He sent a dozen bombs to Trump political opponents.
No amount of rationalizing about his background will change the fact that this was an act of political violence against the left and that our right-wing nationalist President is encouraging it.
- those that despise Trump, or the Republicans, are going to lay blame wherever, whenever, for whatever they can.
Truth be damned.
Here are some things I would like to know.
1. Is there any evidence connecting him to the making of the bombs? Are there receipts or video footage of him purchasing items to make the bomb?
2. The labels on the packages were printed. Where is the computer and printer he used for this? Are they in the back of his van? The complaint filed against him makes no mention of it.
3. How did he learn to make bombs? He has no military or law enforcement experience. If he got it off the internet, where is the computer he used?
4. I've read every account of this and there is no mention that he said anything about the bombs to anyone, his friends or family. A person does something like this, they will tell someone.
5. Where did he make the bombs? Was it in the back of his van? Again, no mention of it in the complaint. Is it possible he had an accomplice?
6. IF he was such a supporter of President Donald Trump, why would he do something like this that could harm the president in the upcoming election?
7. What was his motivation? Most people who have done this had strong motives. This man has stated none. Why did he pick the targets he picked? Why weren't the stamps canceled?
This whole think stinks. Would the Democrats do such a thing? Remember Benghazi? It happened near an election. Hillary and Obama intentionally lied about it being the result of a YouTube video. They lied to the UN and the American people. There is no depth to where they will not sink.
I'm not sure what that has to do with my post. I was simply pointing out why Democrats are upset about being targeted with bombs by a Republican and Trump supporter.
There is an old saying that goes "Pursuit of the truth requires many questions to be asked and many answers to be gotten." There is much more to this story than your statement. That is why getting answers to questions is so important. When all the facts are in, I believe the story will change dramatically from what we know today.
You and Ed both said you’d eat your words if this turned out to be a Trump supporter and yet here you both are with a barrel of excuses and denials.
I knew Ed was going to do it but I kinda expected better from you.
I'll go out on a limb here RJ. Maybe because he's a dumbass? Maybe because someone like him doesn't think about consequences?
If you believe that, throw in the false narratives about the caravan also.
The media knows what sells. Stop buying into it.
Prediction , Two - three days before mid terms media will announce
arrest with " very likely Trump ties "............
A more logical explanation is that lumpy packages are often not post-marked and Washington DC is full of really nosy journalists with cameras.
"False flag" is the ridiculous invention here. Not the bombs. Especially when even Trump won't call this one false news.
It's all part of a vast conspiracy involving the CIA, the FBI, the KGB, the Democrats, the Republicans, the Media, Mark Zuckerberg, Beyonce, the Illuminati, and the Grays from Planetoid X-51. Or something.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!
But you forgot the M16 - worst of them all!
NPR and the affiliated VPR in my area have become the essential liberal "go to " channels where every news cycle has a broad brushed anti-Trump message to the point that every single programmed news source is Crayola boxed .
If my only news source were NPR ,I'd be a democrat too , no wonder the left is so biased .
I hear that mantra from people who have blinders on. Yes, NPR can lean left but it is not totally biased.
None of the "media" or their political counterparts are discussing the possibility of a foreign power or group. It has a feel of them already having a culprit in mind. I suspect past military service, psychiatric history, psychotropic cocktails and wearing a MAGA hat.
So you all need to consider WHY Trump would incite violence to a non viable candidate challenger like old Joe Biden , a brainless celebrity like Deniro , losers like the Clintons etc..................
Why would he ?
But Why WOULDN'T Liberal Obstructionists ?
Are you both deaf and blind, or do you believe that this is all made up and your halfwit hero or perp is a figment of the imagination of a "liberal press"?
I'm actually with the experts on this one , One has been quoted as saying , "These pipe bombs are the work of a moron " while examining the technology . "This is all made up "stuff ?
What wasn't " made up" was the incredible silence we all heard as to your party condemning leftist violence of BLM , Antifa , The Scalise shooting , your political leadership !!!!!
So the FBI made up all the things they said at their press conference when the Republican perp was caught?
Well, they didn't, so who cares? It was one of your own delusional thoughtless party supporters that made the news the media reports to the public.
Wack Jobs are not conservative activists . You'll have to look to Antifa , BLM etc......for those .
I sure hope America never has to go to world war again because some of you have evolved so soft in ego , sheltered in character and weak in potential as to have become genuine pacifists .
To tie Trump's political rhetoric and even ideological bullying to those quacks that will become violent for NO reason at all is absolutely preposterous .
Would you condemn your liberally devolved criminal justice system the one that revolves these people back out on the streets with histories of threats and violence ? No . You are too weak in character to hold an individual accountable for his crimes and simply blame a convenient target like our "bully "president ?
How weak .
It's not likely to be the most stable Americans that Trump's rhetoric helps push over the edge. Would this be what you were emphasizing if Obama called people "The enemy of the people" and a left wing nut job did something like this?
We have to see these things for what they are, nut jobs encouraged by an environment stoked by poor leadership. Many Trump supporters would never think of doing such things but it only takes one...left or right to wreak havoc.
You're right - it only takes one. One person inundated with ugly descriptions and claims of evil for the man he has chosen as his idol. One man that sees powerful people demonizing his idol every day, one after another with absolute lies and gross exaggerations of the truth. How long until it overcomes what sanity he had left and he takes steps to stop such evil, terrible people from continuing their horrible actions?
It is far too simplistic (even though politically useful) to blame that idol for influencing him; the influence came from dozens, hundreds or thousands of sources...all saying terrible, untrue things. The "environment" was absolutely filled with them, those evil people saying bad things about his President, and something had to be done. He did it.
It was OK for him to send the bombs because of the "evil, terrible people" who told "absolute lies and gross exaggerations of the truth" about Trump?
What a horrible justification of the bomber's actions. That left-hating logic justifies many more violent acts by many more people.
Wow. There should be an award for this level of colossal bul!$h!t.
So predictable. LOL
Ken, based only on what I have seen in the news, I think you are stretching to call this guy "insane." I could easily go with; nut, moron, or dumbass, but I think insane paints an incorrect picture.
By your standard - half of our population, (an exaggeration of course), should be institutionalized. Maybe that would be a good use for those FEMA camps?
Well GA, you said it not me.
What we know: He has a lengthy criminal history in Florida dating back to 1991 that includes felony theft, drug and fraud charges, as well as being arrested and accused of threatening to use a bomb, public records show, we also know he has lived out of a van for years.
The van was often parked outside an LA Fitness in Aventura, backed up in a parking space under the trees for shade. Patrons say they frequently saw him in the locker room.
"He'd just be walking straight to the shower and be in the shower forever," said Edgar Lopez, who often exercises at the gym. "I never saw him working out."
Other times, the van was seen parked at the beach in nearby Hollywood before dawn, with Sayoc stripping down to skin-tight shorts for an outdoor shower.
"I've seen the guy maybe 80 times and I never said a word to him because I had a feeling he was a little off," said Marc Weiss, the superintendent of a building near where Sayoc frequently parked. "I assumed because he was showering at the beach that he was homeless."
In 2015, he reported to police that his van was broken into outside of a gym in Oakland Park, Florida. He claimed that more than $40,000 worth of items were stolen, including $7,150 worth of Donald Trump-brand suits.
But often, Sayoc was on the other side of legal complaints.
In the 2002 bomb threat case, he had lashed out at a Florida utility representative because his electricity service was about to be cut off. The arrest report said Sayoc threatened in a phone call to blow up the utility's offices and said that "It would be worse than September 11th."
Sayoc was also convicted in 2014 for grand theft and in 2013 for battery. In 2004, he faced several felony charges for unlawful possession of a synthetic anabolic steroid often used to help build muscles. He also had several arrests going back to the 1990s for theft, obtaining fraudulent refunds and tampering with evidence.
He had serious financial problems in recent years, including losing his home in foreclosure in 2009 and filling for Chapter 7 bankruptcy.
Cesar Sayoc would dance at strip clubs that primarily attracted female customers, according to Tony Valentine, an event promoter in Ohio.
“Back in the 90s, he danced for some friends of mine,” Valentine told the Daily News in a phone interview. “He ran a show called ‘Girls Night Out.’”
Sayoc, 56, also used to manage some female strip clubs in south Florida, according to Valentine, who said he last saw him in West Palm Beach a few years ago.
Ronald Lowy, an attorney and friend of Sayoc’s mother, said the suspected mail bomber used to have a serious problem with steroids, resulting in his being charged with felony possession of the muscle-boosting drugs in 2004.
“He got in a diversion program to hopefully try to get him off steroids,” Lowy, who has represented Sayoc in multiple criminal cases over the years, told The News. “Sadly, it’s our understanding he went back and continued using them. We think that is probably part of the problem. Steroids can create heightened emotions and anger. It’s a very dangerous drug.”
Sayoc suffers from mental illness, according to Lowy, and is believed to have lived out of a white van covered in pro-Trump stickers. He used his since-suspended social media accounts to threaten Democratic politicians, peddle racist conspiracy theories and profess his adoration for President Trump.
... I believe he would qualify as a person with provable and identifiable 'mental health' issues, and could have easily been 'Baker Acted' here in Florida, and it may be that he was. If not, he had certainly declined in recent years to unstable mental health, which seems to be obvious from what has so far been presented.
Since when is being a criminal and a terrorist the same as being insane?
Well, his former Lawyer said he suffers from mental illness.
If his actions the past few years are not large red flags of mental illness, I'm not sure what would be.
But as I noted earlier, we live in a society/civilization today that essentially allows the mentally unstable and legally insane to wander the streets, the days of state run mental institutions are long gone, and what is left in terms of support is nothing more than a revolving door.
When many of us non Trump supporters on here have questioned his mental stability, we get ripped to shreds because we aren't "qualified" for making such a statement.
Are you, a layman, diagnosing this man from afar? Trump defenders objected when licensed psychiatrists diagnosed Trump from afar using mounds of video and written evidence spanning decades.
I guess your answer means you are fine with political violence by the right but condemn it on the left.
I guess your response shows you are unable to have an intelligent discussion about a topic. To do so would require making a point and backing it up with fact. Concepts that appear beyond your abilities. Your limitations are noted.
Sound about right.
Oh please. I asked you two neutral questions hoping we could meet halfway and you answered with an inflammatory meme.
By the way, in case you don't think people on the right ever act violently, I have a breaking news item for you. Maybe we can debate how "All Jews must die" doesn't belong in the right-wing category.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/pittsburgh-p … s-reported
You are mistaken; that shooter was a rabid liberal, espousing nearly every liberal concept.
Or at least there is the same amount of information in your link to come to that conclusion as to come to the idea that he was "right-wing".
He called Trump a globalist rather than a nationalist. That hardly makes him a liberal.
Anti-semitism historically has belonged to the far right. Or do you think the KKK is a liberal organization?
And saying that "all jews must die" is an automatic assignation to conservatism is just as foolish, now isn't it? Did it occur to you that he might have family in Palestine, that his action had exactly zero to do with American politics? Or did the desire to take another poke at Trump override common sense?
Evading? Is the KKK a liberal organization?
I didn't use the word conservatism, did I? I used right wing, which is far more belonging to an extremist element.
And you seem to overlook my other points about the political environment on the other thread. Nowhere did I connect it to Trump. Nowhere in my original post did I mention Trump.
Please stop putting your words into my mouth again.
"And you seem to overlook my other points about the political environment on the other thread."
Who is overlooking points? "Did it occur to you that he might have family in Palestine, that his action had exactly zero to do with American politics?"
Because he wants to kill Jews, and the KKK did as well, does not make him either a KKK member or even a member of the greater group (right wing as you term it) that the KKK fit into. The far right extremists of America are hardly the only group in the world that wants to kill Jews...even if you could know that he fits into ANY group.
"It’s the filthy Evil Jews Bringing Filfy evil Muslims into the country! Stop the Kikes then Worry about the Muslims." - Robert Bowers
He had an account on GAB:
Gab is a far-right Philadelphia, Pennsylvania-based social networking service formerly based in Austin, Texas. It was created as an alternative to Twitter and promotes itself as supporting free speech.
Bowers posted conspiracy theories about George Soros. Other posts praised Hitler and targeted individual anti-fascist activists whom Gab users have routinely harassed. He shared a post complaining about charges against the far-right group the Proud Boys.
His header image was a neo-Nazi meme.
Bowers also bashed Trump for being insufficiently supportive of the white supremacists of the deadly Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally and of the Proud Boys, a violent alt-right gang.
Why don't you answer the questions? These are questions any reasonable person would have no difficulty answering.
Do you condemn acts of political violence by either side?
Do you agree that extremists on both sides have committed acts of violence?
Why is that difficult? I don't get it.
Islanbites , A Little lesson for the naivete that liberals seem to have about "White Supremacy , Neo Nazi , White nationalists "etc............These are terms of hate groups assigned to conservatives BY extremely uninformed liberals OR by the new liberal with anti-conservative activist agenda's .
Especially young and academia influenced liberals .
So Dream On .
THEY are not US .
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