Terrible things are happening outside

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   Don Wposted 4 years ago

   "My Dad's friend told me that 'do you see those cars at the food plant? Nobody's there because the ICE people took them'. Then I told him, was my dad taken away? He said 'yes'" (Edna, aged 14 , 2019)
   https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/11/us/m … index.html
   
   "Terrible things are happening outside. At any time of night and day, poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. . . Families are torn apart; men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared." (Anne Frank, aged 14 , 1943)
   https://archive.org/stream/AnneFrankThe … l_djvu.txt

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      Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      What a coincidence.  Or is it?

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      GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      That's quite a post Don. My first thoughts were a bit harsh. In considering them I realized they were based on an assumption that was drawn only from what I thought your point was.
      
      Prudence won. What is your point Don?
      
      GA

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         Don Wposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         "What is your point Don?"
         
         Fear.
         
         Specifically, children living in fear because of the actions of adults.
         
         Which particular adults take the blame depends on your politics. Amazingly the blame always perfectly aligns with whatever pet ideology people subscribe to. So in various measures it will be: the parents' fault; the government's fault; the exploitative employer's fault; our fault for wanting cheap chicken(!) Each will have its advocates and defenders.
         
         And none of it, not a single bit of it, will change that feeling of fear a child has, that her parents have been taken, or will be.
         
         Within the maelstrom of policies and politics and tweets I saw two girls, from different times, different places and different circumstances, expressing exactly the same fear in their own distinct words, and it moved me. Sadly though fear is not all these girls share.
         
         Anne and her parents were not "rats" flooding the continent of Europe, as they were described. They were a Jewish family wanting security and prosperity. Edna and her parents are not animals either. They are not "infesting" the country, as has been suggested. They are an hispanic family looking for security and prosperity.
         
         And that leads me to my own fear. Fear of the hatred that caused "adults" to see Anne and her family as just "parasites", and Edna and hers as just "illegals" carrying "disease"; fear that these "adults" are using rhetoric that strips children of their humanity for political ends; fear because I sometimes wonder just how far the current administration and its supporters would be willing to go (Jews in the US are not "children of satan". Edna and her family did not "invade" the country).
         
         Whatever the politics, this rhetoric serves only to dehumanize. Anne and her family were dehumanized. Edna and her family are being dehumanized too. The circumstances change, but the dehumanization stays the same.
         
         So the point of this post is to reflect on two girls echoing each others fears; to express empathy for children who live in fear because of what the "adults" around them do; and to express a mixture of fear, sadness and anger that the rhetoric used in Anne's time is being reused against Edna.

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            awareposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            You don't know any of these children personally so save your crocodile tears shallow compassion goes so deep. About an inch or so.

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               IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Ugh.

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               Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I don't know your children--if you have any--personally, but would not want them to be treated in the same manner, would you?

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            GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Well hell Don, I am glad I waited for your clarification. My first thoughts were only half-right.
            
            Allow me to cover the easy part first. The difference I see, (even as the result is the same), is that in Anne's instance it was a pogrom against Jews and in Edna's case it is the enforcement of our laws.
            
            That doesn't mean beans to the affected children, but it does make a difference in the reality of the situation.
            
            I saw those news videos. My heart went out to "Edna," but my reason overruled my heart and dictated that our laws must be upheld.
            
            To be clear, these raids were not a 'catch as catch can' effort. They were focused on known illegal immigrant circumstances. They were not just a dragnet to round up whoever was corralled, they were the result of investigative efforts.
            
            Also, it appears that ICE understood the "children's" consequences and made efforts to notify schools and daycare centers, etc. and also operated on a standard of determining child responsibility in their detention determinations. So I find no fault with the raid.
            
            Now, to your point. And I think it is the more important one, what do we do about it? We are not Nazi Germany, and these illegal immigrant actions are not the Nazi pogrom.
            
            What are our choices? Arrest only individuals without children? Let illegal immigrants with children stay? Allow illegal immigrants to make arrangements to take their children with them? Allow illegal immigrants the opportunity to make family arrangements and then turn themselves in?
            
            My heart tells me that if an illegal immigrant has made it to the U.S. and begun a productive mostly law-abiding, (excepting the illegal immigrant thing), life, then they should get to stay. If they have been here 10 years and started a family and built a life, they should get to stay.
            
            Of course, my 'reason' tells me this is not a realistic solution.
            
            So what do we do?
            
            I recognize your point and I recognize the fear you are addressing, but can we allow the emotion, (our heart), and compassion for the children be the rule of our nation?
            
            If there is any truth to the argument that children are being used as pawns by bad people to cross the border and claim asylum, wouldn't that be even more evidence that we must address this situation with reason instead of emotion?
            
            My first thoughts were that even though the reality of your comparison was true, the use of the comparison was a cheap shot, as in "it's all about the children . . . ", but your clarification softens that thought to the simple question of what would you have our government do?
            
            GA

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               Don Wposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               This post was never about reason.
               
               I want it shown in this small corner of the web, that these girls' voices were heard, and they mean something to someone. Oh I know, what's really needed are sensible political solutions, but that's not what this post is for me.
               
               It's a simple lamentation.
               
               The circumstances are different, but the dehumanizing rhetoric could be transplanted from one time to the other.
               
               And though I can barely imagine what it must feel like to find, or fear, parents taken. I know that to my nine year old, her mother is her universe. So I sense Anne and Edna's fear vicariously through my understanding of that dependency. I sense how devastating the loss of such an unexpected separation would be, especially if extended for a significant time. I sense the harm that hearing words like "diseased" and "infesting" would be if she heard them used to describe her and her parents. And I lament that children are experiencing all these things here in 2019.
               
               To borrow words from another: "This is why I weep and my eyes overflow with tears. No one is near to comfort me, no one to restore my spirit".

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      promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I would rather see the business owners who hire illegals "dragged out of their homes" and put in jail.
      
      They are responsible for these problems and encourage illegal immigrants to come here.
      
      Start putting the owners in jail, and they will stop hiring. If they stop hiring, illegals have no reason to come here for jobs.

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   Live to Learnposted 4 years ago

   This is just ignorance.  These people are not citizens,  as were the Jews in Germany.  These people choose to break the law,  unlike the Jews in Germany. The Jews were murdered in the most heinous fashion.  These people can just go home.
   
   Out of curiosity,  if I break the law and police come for me and my kid cries will you compare me to Ann Frank, or just think i should have stayed within the law?
   
   What about a drug dealer who's  actually a good family man and the kids love him to death.  Is he Ann Frank too?
   
   What about an identity thief who is not an illegal alien. It harms others.  Stealing their SSN. Are they Ann Frank? Or are your  Ann Frank quotes limited to use with foreign nationals?

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      Don Wposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Option A: Yes I'm suggesting that Jews in Germany and German-occupied Europe are the same in every detail as Hispanic immigrants in the US in 2019, including all the surrounding circumstances. And yes, I am definitely comparing you to Anne Frank. And saying a drug dealer is Anne Frank, and an identity thief is Anne Frank.
      
      Option B: No, I'm not doing any of those things.
      
      I shall leave you to contemplate which is most likely.
      
      "This is just ignorance...will you compare me to Ann Frank"
      
      Her name was Anne (with an 'e').

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         Readmikenowposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         As with all people on the left you don't seem to comprehend that there is a difference between "Legal" an "Illegal" immigrants.
         
         Legal immigrants do not have such experiences.  Trust me, I know.  If you break the laws of a country, you will always have something to worry about.  People who obey our laws have no problems.  If children are upset because their parents have committed a crime and are taken from them, it is the same as with American citizens whose parents commit crimes.  So, these children of illegal immigrants are being treated the same as American children.

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         Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Of green gables?
         
         Get a life don. Ignorance is no excuse.

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