Children born in America should not get citizenship

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  1. theirishobserver. profile image58
    theirishobserver.posted 8 years ago

    Rand Paul, the Republican US senate candidate, has said he opposes citizenship for children born in the US to parents who are illegal immigrants.

    1. rhamson profile image74
      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think they should be made to return to their parents country but retain dual citizenship until the age of twenty one.  If they decide to return to the US and claim their US citizenship they should be made to pass a citizenship test before entry.

    2. NathanSyckel profile image55
      NathanSyckelposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      What happens to the parents in this situation? Are they allowed to stay? If so, sounds like the perfect way for them to stick around legally.

      1. rhamson profile image74
        rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I am sorry. I did not make that clear.  Yes the parents should be made to return to their homeland regardless of their children being born in the US.  This would keep the parent with the child.

        1. profile image0
          Brenda Durhamposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          That's how it should be.
          They should go the route of becoming legal citizens the right way instead of using their kids as tools for entry.

          I don't see what any of them are scared of unless their intentions are to do criminal activity.

          I've been an American citizen for over 50 years,  and I have to show my driver's license and cater to the new rules of whether they'll even let me SMILE when my driver's photo is taken,

          so by George I get tired of hearing immigrants whine about being asked for identification and riling up other States, even, against their fellow States like Arizona.

    3. bgamall profile image82
      bgamallposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Rand Paul also said BP shouldn't be held too responsible for the oil spill. Rand Paul is not a champion against the big financial institutions like his dad is. He is an opportunist and a demogogue. 

      Rand Paul, go away.

  2. theirishobserver. profile image58
    theirishobserver.posted 8 years ago

    In Ireland if two people who are illegal here, have a child here, the possibility is that they all get to stay after a long court battle smile

    1. rhamson profile image74
      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      That seems to be the way it is headed here as well.  It is funny how money (lawyer and court costs) dictates the viability of being allowed to stay.

  3. Ron Montgomery profile image61
    Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years ago

    Everyone who wants to be a U.S. citizen should have to pass a test, regardless of the parents legal status.  That would pretty much spell the end of the GOP. Simply being born here (a totally random occurence) has no bearing on a person's ability to contribute to American society.

    Those who do not pass the test should be quarantined in Alaska.

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      What kind of 'test' exactly? Academic? About the political system? Dunked into the water and burnt at the stake if they don't drown?

      Not that its particularly relevant to me, I want to live in Spain, where you just need an EU passport....

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
        Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, the dunking test is a good idea.  As Brenda will surely attest, God will intevene and save any potential citizen who is worthy of the term "American".

      2. LaMamaLoli profile image58
        LaMamaLoliposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        are u kidding! wait till you get to spain, its not as easy as you'd think...

    2. Arthur Fontes profile image81
      Arthur Fontesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Then we could have a "No Citizen Left Behind Act"

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
        Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Drill baby, drill.

        1. TheSituation profile image67
          TheSituationposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Ron, so true, all conservatives are idiots and liberals are all Mensa calibre huh?  I occasionally find you tolerable, but seriously, this is flat out ridiculous.    I agree that there are some nut-cases on the right, but you think the far left is not the same?    I will put my degree and IQ toe to toe with you any day buddy.

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
            Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I accept your bold challenge.  My IQ will meet yours by the swings after school.

            1. TheSituation profile image67
              TheSituationposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Lets do it....my dad is tougher than your dad  wink

              1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
                Ron Montgomeryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                I have two Mommies.  There was a movie about us on LOGO.

  4. theirishobserver. profile image58
    theirishobserver.posted 8 years ago

    There is a lot of grey areas and it appears that these are exploited by people who may not have the nations best interest at heart

  5. theirishobserver. profile image58
    theirishobserver.posted 8 years ago

    Would it be fair to say that if all foreigners were returned to their own country from American - the native Indians would be the only ones left - where did America draw the line about who is and who is not a foreigner smile and who is and who is not illegal smile Just asking smile

    1. profile image0
      ryankettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Yes that would be fair.... in fact we would all end up in Africa eventually if every country followed that principle... That would be awful wouldn't it? Imagine all those simple minded rednecks descending on Ireland and England... I would have to cut myself into half and then one half into half again. Ireland would get a quarter of me, what part of my body would you like? Half of me would stay in England....

      1. Ohma profile image74
        Ohmaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Ryan! did you just imply that all Americans are simple minded rednecks! mad               lol lol lol

        1. profile image0
          ryankettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Of course not! lol


















          But many of them are tongue

          1. Ohma profile image74
            Ohmaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Well I repres..... er um Resent that remark! mad

            1. profile image0
              ryankettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Well we all have them wink

              1. Ohma profile image74
                Ohmaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Yes. Yours just speak proper English. big_smile

      2. Rafini profile image85
        Rafiniposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Well, at least a small portion of me would be able to stay here in America then...lol

  6. Rafini profile image85
    Rafiniposted 8 years ago

    Children born to illegal immigrants while in the US should be treated the same as a child born to a foreigner who is visiting another country. (a comprehensive look at different laws throughout the world before determining what ours would say)  Does this mean: Dual citizenship?  Apply for citizenship?  Entitled to citizenship?  No citizenship?  Its up to the parents?  Its up to the country of birth?  Its up to the country of residence? 

    What does Mexico say about children born to their legal citizens while in a foreign country?  Are they dual citizens or not citizens at all?  Does Mexico take any responsibility for these children?

    I'm all for the Arizona law, but I'm against leaving these innocent children without a homeland.

    1. profile image0
      LegendaryHeroposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      They wouldn't be left without a homeland. They would have the citizenship of whatever their parents were.

  7. Ohma profile image74
    Ohmaposted 8 years ago

    The American Indians are also not native to this country. They migrated here from Asia for the most part.

  8. prettydarkhorse profile image63
    prettydarkhorseposted 8 years ago

    My baby was automatically an American citizen because her daddy is a US citizen white American and my baby was born here in the US, and I was not an American citizen then when she was born.

    my friend in australia married an australian citizen and her baby was born in Australia, she has to wait for four years till she became a Aus citizen before the baby became an Aus citizen, I think it is the same in UK..

    Another friend who wasn't an American citizen married an American citizen, she gave birth to their baby in the Philipines, automatically the baby is American citizen as the dad is American citizen

    It is complicated, the rules on citizenship here in the US is more lax comparing to UK or AUS

    Citizenship bear the rights and privileges of a citizen and that is very important,


    Affinity is also important, my baby's physical characteristics is more white than Asian, but I try to teach her the values of two different cultures. Of course English is her primary language as that what is spoken here, but not trying to confuse her, I don't speak with her in Filipino, at times only.

    How inappropriate would be for her to wait until she is 18 before she can have privileges of a citizen.

    1. rhamson profile image74
      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think that it has all gotten confused.

      I think your baby should be a US Citizen because one of her parents hold US citizenship and she was born in the US.  You of course would have to apply for citizenship as you were born in the Phillipines and immigrated here.

      The part I have a problem is with both parents who enter the US illegally and have a child here and expect the child to have automatic citizenship.  The child while being raised by the illegal parents should stay with the illegal parents as they are deported to their original country.  The child should hold the rights of dual citizenship until the age of twenty one or become a US citizen if and when their parents became legal US citizens.  If the parents did not become legal US citizens then the child will have the choice of becoming a US citizen at the age of twenty one and passes the citizenship test conducted by the US Government.

      1. prettydarkhorse profile image63
        prettydarkhorseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        That is fair enough, Thanks,

      2. adrienne2 profile image65
        adrienne2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I agree with @rhamson it has all gotten confusing.  I thought I was firm on my position with this issue before I began reading everyone else's position.  In short if a child is born in the US they should be citizens of the US regardless of the parents being here illegal.  To me there really is not a simple solution.

  9. theirishobserver. profile image58
    theirishobserver.posted 8 years ago

    Ohma I never knew that about Indians - how did they travel to America - and what period - serious question smile

    1. Ohma profile image74
      Ohmaposted 8 years agoin reply to this
      1. Rafini profile image85
        Rafiniposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        kewl!

    2. Rafini profile image85
      Rafiniposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The Indians traveled to America by foot a long, long time ago and were not considered Indians.  (when Russia and Alaska were connected by a land bridge)

      (sorry Ohma, I got here first) smile

  10. Cagsil profile image81
    Cagsilposted 8 years ago

    Children born in America should not get citizenship.

    I find this filled with ambiguity, first off. A child's citizenship should be based on the citizenship of the family it is born to in the first place.

    Providing the family has citizenship, then the child does. If the parents do not, then the child does not.

    How difficult is that? hmm

    1. rhamson profile image74
      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      There is a wealth of legal battles that could ensue for the courts to figure out if that was the case.

      What if one or both of the parents were not US citizens and serving in the US military to gain US citizenship? 

      What if at child were born overseas at the time of the parents being granted US citizenship?

      What about the child being adopted by US parents from a foreign country?

      There are a myriad of loopholes that a good lawyer could apply and tie the courts up for years.

      1. Cagsil profile image81
        Cagsilposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        In your opinion. wink
        Well, I would certainly hope that ALL military personnel are U.S. citizens to begin with. Otherwise, they should not be serving in AMERICA's Military. I would have thought that was obvious, even for lawyers. wink
        I guess that would depend on the time and specific of each situation, now wouldn't it. hmm
        What about it? That's adoption. Nice to see you know how to get off topic of being born here. DUH!
        If that was the best you can do, I think you need to review or change your perspective. wink

        1. rhamson profile image74
          rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          In fact a lot of immigrants are granted status if they join the US armed services and are granted citizenship if they complete it.

          Sorry that you have taken such a defensive tone and that maybe you wouldn't have such attitude if you knew a little more about the subject.

          But, alas that seems to be your M.O.

          Have a nice day smile

          1. Cagsil profile image81
            Cagsilposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Talk about having more information on the subject. Apparently, your vision is just as screwed up as everyone else. It purposely shows the ignorance many have.

            I know I'm ignorant in certain things, but not like you. wink

            You have a nice day too. tongue

  11. theirishobserver. profile image58
    theirishobserver.posted 8 years ago

    rafini - many thanks I really must read up on this as it is very interesting - I only watched the movies - John Wayne etc so apologies to all you native Americans where ever you come from smile

  12. thisisoli profile image70
    thisisoliposted 8 years ago

    Isn't there a nickname for mexicans because their women cross the river just before they give birth to get their family in to America?

    I think the children born in America thing is a bit of a cop out to be honest, my immigration is costing close to three grand, seems a bit unfair!

    1. Rafini profile image85
      Rafiniposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      yeah, that's the whole point (for me and I hope, most Americans)- Immigration Hypocrisy.

  13. TLMinut profile image61
    TLMinutposted 8 years ago

    Germany is one country that changed that long ago, isn't it? My aunt and uncle had children in Germany - my aunt is American, my uncle is Italian, the two kids were born in Germany. They had to wait until age 18 to choose which of three citizenships they wanted. No one considered Germany, it was a circumstance and had nothing to do with who they are. They both chose American citizenship but they were choosing between American and Italian. And now I believe, Germany wouldn't be a choice.

  14. Rochelle Frank profile image95
    Rochelle Frankposted 8 years ago

    Most people don't know that the "child born in the US is a citzen" law was enacted after the Civil War. It was to give the emancipated slaves the right of citizenship, since it was impossibly impractical to send several generations of freed slaves back to Africa.

  15. TLMinut profile image61
    TLMinutposted 8 years ago

    Aaah, makes sense now, thanks for that info. So it's no longer necessary, nor is it beneficial to the country.

    1. Rochelle Frank profile image95
      Rochelle Frankposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I would agree.

  16. flread45 profile image77
    flread45posted 8 years ago

    Send them back to their country.

  17. Strophios profile image55
    Strophiosposted 8 years ago

    I really don't understand all this debate here, it seems pretty simple to me: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." That would be the 14th Amendment, which is in fact part of the United States' Constitution. It would seem to pretty much put paid to the idea of doing anything else. Unless you want to concede that the Constitution is a flawed document (which is actually fine by me, but most people on the conservative side of the immigration debate are a bit uncomfortable with that).

    1. Rafini profile image85
      Rafiniposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The 14 Amendment is just that - an Amendment to the original Constitution and can be repealed.

      1. TheSituation profile image67
        TheSituationposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        The chances of getting an amendment changed are REALLY small, but  strophios hit the nail on the head, this is a settled issue and I doubt anyone has the stones to suggest we change the Constitution.  Though I am generally for strong immigration enforcement, if a child is born here they are a citizen, simple as that.

        Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

        1. Rafini profile image85
          Rafiniposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          So are you saying the writers of the 14th amendment couldn't possibly have made a mistake? 

          Prohibition was also an amendment you know, and repealed because it was an obvious mistake....?

          1. Rochelle Frank profile image95
            Rochelle Frankposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            The 14th amendment was right and necessary for the time it was written,(150 years ago) because it gave citizenship to the recently-emancipated slaves that had been born in this country. That was the purpose and intention of the law.

            1. Rafini profile image85
              Rafiniposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              Yeah, I saw your other post. smile 

              I agree it was right and necessary for the time it was written, but I do feel changes need to be made since it does not specifically reference illegal immigrants.

              1. TheSituation profile image67
                TheSituationposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                Of course there have been mistakes, prohibition was a mistake in the way it was implemented (i.e. there was no need to try and restrict alcohol use/sale with a constitutional change.)  HOWEVER, I also believe that we should not go around changing our Constitution because of what we think the intent was....and yes, I consider the amendments as part of the Constitution.  Time and again the forefathers (and I will count Lincoln as one of them) have proven that they had amazing forethought.

                I am about as strong on immigration as anyone here, but I do not think there is a compelling reason to change our definition of who is a citizen, such a small number of people are affected by this that it seems more like a political statement than anything else.

                1. Rafini profile image85
                  Rafiniposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Okay, so an amendment to the constitution, which was written and ratified prior to the creation of the first immigration laws but has an undesired affect on such laws, doesn't deserve a second look?

                  I think it does.

                  1. TheSituation profile image67
                    TheSituationposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                    I just think this is not anywhere near important enough to be concerned with.  What are we talking about, a few thousand, maybe 10k a year?  That is NOTHING!  Getting sidetracked on things like this will be the death of the resurgence of the right in this country!

  18. Rochelle Frank profile image95
    Rochelle Frankposted 8 years ago

    I agree. Offhand, I don't know if any other countries have this provision for citizenship-- just being born in the country.

  19. TMMason profile image69
    TMMasonposted 8 years ago

    I agree, no citizen-ship for the children of illegals.

    1. TheSituation profile image67
      TheSituationposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I disagree with this.  As much as I am against illegal immigration, if the child is born on US soil, then they are a citizen, that is not up for debate without repealing the 14th Amendment, and I do not see even Paul saying we should do that.

      1. TMMason profile image69
        TMMasonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I wouldn't think it would ever happen either.

        But there has to be something done... some restrictions on it.

        Too many people cross the border to have a baby then cry they can't be sperated from the baby. It cannot be allowed.

        1. TheSituation profile image67
          TheSituationposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I agree with this.  We need to not get caght up in these little asides, it distracts from the main issues.

          #1 Secure the border.  NOBODY gets through without the right paperwork.  There are tens of thousands of solderiers withing 100 miles of the border (Camp Pendleton 1St marine Div., 29 Palms,  Ft. Hood etc.) guarding dirt....let them guard dirt that means some dirt that matters.  If you do not secure the border, the deporting, etc. does not matter as they just come back.

          #2.  Crack down on employers and deport the criminals.

  20. aguasilver profile image72
    aguasilverposted 8 years ago

    Living for 25 years in Spain, as a foreign resident, both my children were born in Spain, and both would qualify for citizenship, but ONLY after age 18 years, having proven that they had lived in Spain mainly during that time.

    i.e. there are qualifications to be adhered to.

    John

  21. theirishobserver. profile image58
    theirishobserver.posted 8 years ago

    In Ireland I have seen people swear allegance to the Irish State as they are granted citizenship - clearly this cant happen with a child, so what do we do smile

  22. theirishobserver. profile image58
    theirishobserver.posted 8 years ago

    Should citizenship be purely based on allegance to the nation smile

 
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