Impeachment - What We Know So Far

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  1. RJ Schwartz profile image89
    RJ Schwartzposted 4 months ago

    The Adam Schiff-led show trial in the House tells us everything we need to know.  It's purely a political stunt to turn voters away from President Trump.  A couple of the key statements and findings that America has learned from the lengthy commentary:

    “At No Time Was I Aware of – an Effort to Urge Ukraine to Investigate Vice President Biden” – Ambassador Volker

    Bill Taylor & George Kent: Never met POTUS, weren't on the  7/25 call

    Yovanovitch  “I cannot bring any firsthand knowledge to... the phone call or delay of aid.”

    Vindman  "I've never had any contact with POTUS"

    Not one of the people brought before the Committee could offer any example of a crime or a reason for impeachment.  Mr. Vindman was caught adding his own words to the official report on the call, failed to properly report any concerns through his normal chain of command, and leaked a classified call to outsiders.  Adam Schiff repeatedly leads witnesses and has not been forthcoming in sharing transcripts. 

    Will the Democrats continue this waste of taxpayer dollars or push on, knowing full well that the Senate will not convict and Trump will cruise to re-election?

  2. RJ Schwartz profile image89
    RJ Schwartzposted 4 months ago

    5:40 P.M. — Morrison says Vindman was upset he was cut out from some matters regarding Ukraine.

    5:39 P.M. — Morrison says that he had concerns that Vindman leaked information to the media.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image91
      Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      9:45 A.M. Wednesday-- Sondland testifies there was a quid pro quo Trump was trying to achieve in the Ukraine. Trump is guilty of attempted bribery and extortion in the process.

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        If there was quid pro quo, how did Ukraine get the funding and no investigation take place on Biden?  That is one lousy quid pro quo. 


        Again, where is the proof? This contradicts his previous testimony he made in a closed-door session. 

        "His testimony on Nov. 20 will be highly scrutinized because his account, in small and large ways, has been contradicted by testimony of many other witnesses. Already, Sondland has provided a supplemental declaration expanding on his initial deposition, saying his memory had been “refreshed” after reading the opening statements of others."

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … repancies/


        "Refreshed" by others... puh-leeze.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image83
          PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

          Simply put, he lied the first time, and decided he'd prefer not go to jail rather than continue lying after so many others contradicted his testimony.

          Where is the proof?  Testimony, under oath, of multiple credible witnesses corroborated by considerable physical evidence in the form of texts, emails, and phone call records.

          Just because the funds were released after the thugs got caught, does not mean a crime wasn't committed.

          Feeble, Mike, feeble.

          1. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

            "Testimony, under oath, of multiple credible witnesses corroborated by considerable physical evidence in the form of texts, emails, and phone call records."

            I like your imagination. That is the only place these things exist.   

            You still have two problems. 

            1. We have read the conversation.
            2. The funds were released shortly AFTER the phone conversation and NO investigation into Biden occurred on the part of Ukraine.

            You may not realize it, but that ends the game. 

            Lying the first time?  It is sworn testimony.  People with any knowledge of the law realize that is PERJURY worthy of jail time.

            ALSO, people who know the law realize there is something called "hearsay" which is what makes up most of the "damning" testimony.

            There is NOTHING just ignorance of the law and misguided imagination of the left.

            Sorry, I believe understanding this is above the ability of most people on the left.

            Just like reality.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image83
              PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

              Still spouting old debunked talking points. I'm not wasting any more time with you.

              1. tsadjatko profile image64
                tsadjatkoposted 4 months agoin reply to this
              2. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                How about public testimony.

                "President Trump quoted a portion of the testimony of U.S. Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland as he departed the White House Wednesday: "I want nothing. I want nothing," Mr. Trump read to reporters outside the White House. "I want no quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky — President Zelensky to do the right thing."


                "The quote referred to a September 9 conversation that Sondland depicted as "very short and abrupt." Mr. Trump disputed Sondland's characterization of him as having been in a bad mood — "I'm always in a good mood. I don't know what that is." He then suggested he was quoting Sondland saying, "This is the final word from the president of the United States: 'I want nothing.'"

                https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-quot … d-pro-quo/

                The imagination of the left knows no boundaries.

                1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                  PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  Excellent cherry picking.

                2. Randy Godwin profile image91
                  Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  Sure he said this after the whistleblower came out. lol

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                    PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    He's not keeping up.

                    From Sondland's testimony, on top of Lt. Col. Fine man and others, all under oath:

                    The president ordered it. Everyone knew about it. It was quid pro quo.

                    Today, look for GOP to stupidly parrot Russian propaganda.

            2. GA Anderson profile image92
              GA Andersonposted 4 months agoin reply to this

              The aid was released "shortly" after the call . . . Is almost two months "shortly" by your thinking?

              Also, and just as a point of discussion because I haven't confirmed it, does it matter that Pres. Trump didn't unilaterally decide to finally release the aid?

              It seems a portion of it, ($141 million), was released by State Dept. lawyers and the rest was released based on an action by Senator Durbin.

              GA

      2. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        No he didn't - when pressed he admitted that he presumed there was.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image91
          Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

          Trump's own transcript say there was a quid pro quo attempted but failed when the whistleblower emerged. Of course, you know how he lies all the time.

          1. DoubleScorpion profile image78
            DoubleScorpionposted 4 months agoin reply to this

            Where is the Quid pro quo in the transcript that was released?

            Did I miss the "Do this or I wont do this", or the "Do this and I'll do that"?

            Hasn't everyone but Vindman stated that the call was good and they have no evidence of QPQ?

            1. Readmikenow profile image95
              Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

              There are two facts the left can't get past.

              1. Ukraine got the funding
              2. Ukraine did NOT start an investigation into the Bidens after getting funding.

              So, these facts show there is no QPQ. It doesn't matter what people thought they heard, who told them what by whom.

              THESE are the facts.

              It is truth that destroys all the left's allegations.  This is what makes the impeachment inquiry a total and complete joke.

              1. Valeant profile image94
                Valeantposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                And these are the true facts that the right cannot process....

                1.) The aid only got released after Trump got caught by the whistleblower demanding an announcement of an investigation into the Bidens for personal gain.  Making a statement that you didn't commit a crime, after you get caught committing that crime is a piss-poor defense.
                2.)  Ukraine likely knows what Hill, Volker, Morrison, and others testified to, that impropriety by the Joe Biden is a Russian conspiracy theory that the GOP has latched onto and is promoting.
                3.)  Claiming hearsay when Trump and Mulvaney already went on television and admitted to a quid pro quo is an amazing claim. 
                4.)  And using the hearsay defense when Trump has obstructed many witnesses from being able to testify under legally-issued subpoenas is like telling us that we never saw the crime because you poked our eyes out first.  Rationalizing one crime as a defense for another really is idiocy.

                Getting caught using the office for personal gain and withholding much-needed military aid to a country in the midst of a military conflict is an abuse of power.

                1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                  PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  I think he knows all these things but is desperately defending dear leader with half-truths and distortions. I suspect he feels pretty greasy doing it but just can't bring himself to contradict the cult.

                  1. hard sun profile image89
                    hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    Exactly. Trump could shoot someone in the middle of whatever street he wanted, with a million witnesses, and some people will still defend him. He knows it, and they know it.

                    He is much more than a President to some people. They have an idol, some sort of holy god that can do no wrong no matter how much wrong he does.

                2. Readmikenow profile image95
                  Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  You guys are funny.

                  1. Did you watch the inquiry at all?  The Republicans clearly established that aid is routinely held up to foreign countries for a variety of reasons.  Honduras and others. Holding up aid is nothing new. It's been happening for many years. 

                  2. "Ukraine likely knows" I like your assumptions and imagination.

                  3. I think this is part of your imagination.  I watched everything and this never happened.  Good try.  Oh, and quid pro quo was dropped and they were going for bribery.  Such a joke.

                  4. Sorry, due process would require the Republicans be permitted to call their witnesses.  You need to learn about something called executive privilege. President Donald Trump did nothing illegal.

                  Again, I applaud your active imagination.

                  Oh, and in recent polling President Donald Trump is crushing Biden and the donations to the Republican party are flowing in at record levels. 

                  Maybe we should be thankful for the sham impeachment.

                  Two points you can't change.

                  1. Ukraine got the aid
                  2. No investigation was conducted on the Bidens by the Ukraine.

                  That is pretty much the bottom line.

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                    PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    "Yo, Guido, Tony ratted on us  Go ahead and give 'em the money. Then  I'll say we were perfect and enough schmucks will believe us. We'll be golden."

                  2. Don W profile image83
                    Don Wposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    "1. Ukraine got the aid"

                    You seem to have missed out some relevant information from your timeline:

                    May 2019: Undersecretary of Defense for Policy John Rood informs Congress that he 'certified that the Government of Ukraine has taken substantial actions to make defense institutional reforms for the purposes of decreasing corruption [and] increasing accountability.'

                    July 10: Gordon Sondland, John Bolton, Fiona Hill and others meet with Ukrainian officials at the White House. Sondland says Zelensky will get a meeting with trump if Ukraine agrees to launch investigations specifically into Burisma and Biden's son. Bolton stops the meeting. Advises Hill to report the discussion to the chief lawyer for the National Security Council (John A. Eisenberg). Hill does as Bolton advises.

                    July 18: The Office of Management and Budget announces to national security officials that $391 million in security aid to Ukraine is being withheld until further notice, due to a presidential order.

                    July 25: Trump explicitly asks Zelensky to investigate Biden's son. Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman reports the call to the NSC's chief legal advisor.

                    A member of Laura Cooper's staff receives a question from a Ukraine embassy contact asking what's going on with Ukraine security assistance.

                    August 10: The Ukrainians know military aid is frozen. Sondland and Kurt Volker work on draft language for Zelensky's announcement of investigations. Andriy Yermak (aide to Zelensky) texted Volker and Sondland to say: "I think it’s possible to make this declaration and mention all these things. Which we discussed yesterday. But it will be logic to do after we receive a confirmation of date. We inform about date of visit and about our expectations and our guarantees for future visit".

                    August 12: A whistleblower submits a complaint to the ICIG about the July 25 call.

                    August 16: The National Security Council, State Department and Defense Department all agree military assistance to Ukraine should be released. Trump rejects the recommendation. An aide says the "president doesn’t want to provide any assistance at all".

                    September 1: Zelensky asks Mike Pence about the aid. Pence says he will speak to Trump. Sondland tells Yermak not to expect the money unless Zelensky announces the investigations.

                    September 7 (26 days after the Whistleblower complaint was made): Trump says to Sondland he wants "nothing" from Ukraine etc.

                    September 11 (2 days after a House committee opens an investigation into the whistleblower complaint): Trump releases the military aid.

                    October 4: Ukraine prosecutor Ruslan Ryaboshapka announces his office is "auditing" cases related to Burisma Holdings, the company Trump requested Zelensky investigate along with Biden's son.

                    Hope this helps as an indicator of why Ukraine may have eventually received the military aid.

  3. Live to Learn profile image79
    Live to Learnposted 4 months ago

    We have, basically, seen the prosecution present their case with select witnesses. I don't think we've seen the whole picture yet. We've seen a very one sided presentation. I'll withhold judgement until we've heard everything.

    Sadly, we need to wait to hear the true story from it's inception. Hopefully, the two investigations going on now will clarify a lot.

    I honestly don't understand the democrats. They lol so vicious, vindictive and underhanded, at the moment.

  4. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 4 months ago

    https://hubstatic.com/14762824.jpg

    1. Randy Godwin profile image91
      Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      You're getting just as bad as onus with the ridiculous memes.

  5. abwilliams profile image53
    abwilliamsposted 4 months ago

    Mike has already mentioned this, but it bears repeating:
    U.S. Ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland asked the President, "What do you want from Ukraine?"
    Trump answered, "I want nothing, I want nothing, I want no quid pro quo. Tell Zelinsky to the do the right thing."

    They should all pack it up and go home early for Thanksgiving!

    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      I would use a tennis reference and say "Game, Set, Match."

    2. Valeant profile image94
      Valeantposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      Timing matters.  Sondland had that conversation after the White House had been notified of the official whistleblower complaint.  So they had basically already been caught trading a meeting at the White House for an announcement of an investigation into the Bidens.  And they released the aid two days later, aid that Ukraine had already met the benchmarks for anti-corruption on, so there was no reason it should have been held back.

      The argument that claiming you didn't commit a crime, after you got caught committing said crime, really is not a great defense.

      How supposedly intelligent people cannot do more research to understand the timeline associated with that conversation really helps explain how they are so easily swayed to believe falsehoods.

      1. hard sun profile image89
        hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        Exactly. If you watched the hearings, this was crystal clear. Sondland repeatedly stated it was obviously a quid prod quo situation and offered evidence to back it up in the form of texts, whatsAp messages, etc. Then Trumpers grab onto this one statement made by Trump who was clearly just trying to cover his tail after he realized not everyone was going along with his plan. By this standard, any defendant who pleads not guilty is well...not guilty. Why would anyone just randomly offer up " I want no quid pro quo" if that wasn't what was up, lol. But, anyone who doesn't fall in line with Trump doesn't think for themselves???

    3. Randy Godwin profile image91
      Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      And this was after the call came to light.

  6. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 4 months ago

    If Randy liked the other meme, he'll love this one.


    https://hubstatic.com/14762904.jpg

  7. abwilliams profile image53
    abwilliamsposted 4 months ago

    I don't know about Randy, but I love these memes. The Dems keep the meme makers in businesss with abundant material, further strengthening the economy. It's a win-win!

    1. Randy Godwin profile image91
      Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      Sure you love these misleading or silly memes as you support a misleading, corrupt administration.

  8. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 4 months ago

    Here is another one I think is great.  It's also too close to reality.


    https://hubstatic.com/14763220.jpg

    1. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

      So true, yet so sad... LOL

    2. abwilliams profile image53
      abwilliamsposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      LOL, officially in stitches now Mike! Yes, we can't forget about Ms. Pelosi, she hasn't been getting nearly enough face time here of late. She probably appreciates a good meme now and then and who could argue with this one?

    3. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      Couldn't resist this one.



      https://hubstatic.com/14764740.jpg

      1. abwilliams profile image53
        abwilliamsposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        Love it and I believe it!
        Also, I am looking forward to watching this Christmas classic, as I do every single year. It is the most WONDERFUL time of the year!

        1. Randy Godwin profile image91
          Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

          I agree. A great time for impeachment of a scoundrel. A wonderful time for us all. smile

  9. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 4 months ago

    Branco is on fire!  He's the best.


    https://hubstatic.com/14764781_f1024.jpg

    1. abwilliams profile image53
      abwilliamsposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      Brilliant! Branco’s memes speak volumes, while lefties continue with paragraphs upon paragraphs of the same old, same old, failed nonsense.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image91
        Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        And the cons still promote these false memes.

  10. hard sun profile image89
    hard sunposted 4 months ago

    This entire hearing is really silly as we had the evidence for a Trump impeachment long ago. Clinton was impeached for obstruction of justice and perjury. Trump is obstructing justice almost daily. That goes back to the Mueller report:

    "Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations,” Mueller wrote. “The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General’s recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony.” --https://www.factcheck/2019/04/what-the-mueller-report-says-about-obstruction/

    The only reason Trump was not indicted for obstruction is this statement also from the report:
    “the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions”

    This alone should be enough to impeach Trump by the standards Republicans set with Clinton. They know it. Everyone knows it. This was pointed out here, on HubPages forums, multiple times.

    As far as perjury, Trump won't even testify, and, in his obstruction of justice fashion, orders others not to as well. And, back to the Mueller investigation. It can certainly be argued that Trump perjured himself with written answers.

    This case was closed long ago. The Republicans just don't have the backbone to do it. But, when Trump is out of office he won't be able to avoid the law, without taking a plane out of the country.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image91
      Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      I look for little Donnie to refuse to leave the WH. His base will support him then as well.

      1. hard sun profile image89
        hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        Yeah. Unfortunately, that's a real possibility. We know some will follow him off any cliff, anytime, anywhere. Americans won't allow that to happen though...not for long anyway.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image84
        Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

        His base will support him. And that's because the Dems are lacking in agendas that are attractive to the people. It's pretty simple. Fun the Dems did not see this or maybe they did and turned to impeachment. And that is not working out to well...

        1. hard sun profile image89
          hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

          His  base will support him refusing to leave if he is voted out or impeached and convicted as per the Constitution? This is what we were discussing. That would seem his base no longer holds loyalty to America.

          1. PrettyPanther profile image83
            PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

            They believe and promote Russian conspiracy theories and don't believe our intelligence professionals, yet they are Americans? Really?

            1. hard sun profile image89
              hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

              It really does seem to come down to that with his most ardent supporters. Having said that, I know people who don't pay a great deal of attention to politics, who say they may vote for him again, that I wouldn't say are anti-American. Some of these people are just going along for the ride with the predominant sentiment of their peers.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                "Some of these people are just going along for the ride with the predominant sentiment of their peers."

                I find that super scary, when a man such as Trump is so clearly unfit to serve in almost every way: morally, intellectually, and temperamentally.

                1. hard sun profile image89
                  hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  For sure. Things could spiral down a bad path quickly, or we could correct our course. I'm sometimes critical at people who jump on every single thing Trump does and act like its the end of the world. However, if Trump gets another term...yeah, it's scary.

                  1. tsadjatko profile image64
                    tsadjatkoposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    Yeah, Trump has done some scary things. Here is a list, maybe you can tell us how much scarier it could get.

                    Almost 4 million jobs created since election.

                    More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.

                    He has created more than 400,000 manufacturing jobs since my election.

                    Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.

                    Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.

                    New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.

                    Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.

                    African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

                    Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.

                    Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

                    Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.

                    Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.

                    Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.

                    Under his Administration, veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.

                    Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.

                    The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans. He is committed to VOCATIONAL education.

                    95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.

                    Retail sales surged last month, up another 6 percent over last year.

                    Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.

                    As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.

                    Helped win U.S. bid for the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.

                    Helped win U.S.-Mexico-Canada’s united bid for 2026 World Cup.

                    Opened ANWR and approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.

                    Record number of regulations eliminated.

                    Enacted regulatory relief for community banks and credit unions.

                    Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.

                    My Administration is providing more affordable healthcare options for Americans through association health plans and short-term duration plans.

                    Last month, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. And thanks to our efforts, many drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases.

                    He reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone.

                    Signed Right-To-Try legislation.

                    Secured $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic.

                    He has reduced high-dose opioid prescriptions by 16 percent during my first year in office.

                    Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.

                    Increased our coal exports by 60 percent; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.

                    United States is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.

                    Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.

                    Cancelled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.

                    Secured record $700 billion in military funding; $716 billion next year.

                    NATO allies are spending $69 billion more on defense since 2016.

                    Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the Armed Forces.

                    Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.

                    Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and nominated Judge Brett Kavanaugh.

                    Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.

                    Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.

                    Protecting Americans from terrorists with the Travel Ban, upheld by Supreme Court.

                    Issued Executive Order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image84
              Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

              Could you simply supply what Russian conspiracy theories you feel Trump's supporters believe? Not sure what you keep referring to? Perhaps the Durham investigation into the 2016 election. Hopefully, that is your train of thought. It will be fun to check back with you after it is released. You sure put yourself out on limbs...

          2. GA Anderson profile image92
            GA Andersonposted 4 months agoin reply to this

            I can't imagine any scenario where Pres. Trump could refuse to leave the office. I have mental images of everyone from the Secret Service to the Military refusing to support such an effort. His base bedamned, I just don't see the decision-makers that matter supporting such an action.

            GA

            1. hard sun profile image89
              hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

              I could see him crying election fraud and attempting to make the Supreme Decide on whether he loses an election. I can definitely see this. And, is our Constitution really equipped to keep him from doing so? I'm not sure. Most Presidents have had the respect to just leave. In the end, I agree that he'd lose, but he could make it very messy.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image83
                PrettyPantherposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                I agree with this. He truly is manually ill and would believe others will think the same way he does. And I wouldn't be that surprised if about 30% of the country would support him staying in office after he persuaded them the election was rigged.

              2. Sharlee01 profile image84
                Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

                He won't have to... He is a shoe-in, Might be better to worry about who helped him win, what country.  Not sure why you think he should leave half the country think differently than you on the subject. Just my opinion.

                1. Readmikenow profile image95
                  Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  https://hubstatic.com/14766699.jpg

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image84
                    Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    Nice one... It's really something I would love to bet on if only I was a betting woman...

                2. hard sun profile image89
                  hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  All I'm stating he should leave if he loses an election, or is impeached, per the Constitution.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image84
                    Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    I have to agree, if either dictates he should leave, he certainly should leave. Do you see either happening?

                  2. Readmikenow profile image95
                    Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    Well, let me help you with this one. 

                    If President Donald Trump is impeached he doesn't leave office.  As per the United States Constitution, he will go on trial in the Senate.

                    Yeah, IF he loses the next election, we'll have a new president so, yeah, he'll HAVE to leave office.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image84
              Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

              Have to say it... OH MY GOD, what are we dealing with? Won't leave office?

              1. hard sun profile image89
                hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                The thing is, the Trumps and people close to them, are the ones saying, and implying this.

                Then, we are supposed to take these comments as jokes when they are called out on them. I don't think this type of talk has any place in America. Remember when Obama opponents starting circulating rumors he would not leave office? I do. And, that was based on nothing. This is based on Trump's own Tweets and words at his rallies.

                Yep, what are we dealing with?

                1. Valeant profile image94
                  Valeantposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  Once he leaves, he is subject to prosecution for the obstruction of justice as well as the fraud in NY for the payments to Cohen.  No way he leaves peacefully, the Office of President is the only coverage he has to protect him from joining Roger Stone and Paul Manafort in jail.

  11. hard sun profile image89
    hard sunposted 4 months ago

    “To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.” ― Thomas Paine, The American Crisis.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image91
      Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      Now we find out Nunes traveled to Europe to get dirt on Biden, and Lev is willing to testify about his and Rudy's Ukraine dealings. Also, Bolton says it's time to speak up. Nunes is refusing to answer questions about his trip.

      Now things are getting really interesting....

      1. Sharlee01 profile image84
        Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

        Yes, very interesting. one could say very good feed... But in the end, what will all of this get us? Zero

        1. Randy Godwin profile image91
          Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

          So you agree Trump is above the law according to the Republicans?

          1. Sharlee01 profile image84
            Sharlee01posted 4 months agoin reply to this

            I have mentioned several times I feel Trump asked for the favor to gain info on the Biden's, his motive is unknown. Most likely to gain info to use in the 2020 election. I think it an abuse of power. The point I have been trying to make is that the impeachment outcome is already writing on the wall...I object to our government officials wasting money and time when they pretty much know the Senate will not vote him out of office. Our Government is nothing but a bunch of self-serving power-hungry human beings.

            This is much of what has been going on for years. One of the reasons Trump made it into the WH, and will again, due to all this foolishness. The Dems needed to find a candidate to run that could beat Trump. Instead, they have given him ammunition. 

            And I do not think Trump above the law. I also don't find Obama above the law. Think back to Obama's hot mike statement to the president of Russia. Should have we impeached him? I did not think so, and you know why? We did not know his motive or have evidence he did anything. Because he had not done it yet?  Hopefully, you see the correlation. We just have no proof of motive, why Trump asked for the favor... Hopefully, when the Senate has the trial we will learn more. I am willing to wait, I don't feel like being wrong. This will end with the Senate vote, leave a lot of angry citizens. And you know what we as a country don't need that.

            I wish more would use common sense and look at Washington representatives straight on for what they are. Not for what they had hoped them to be. This fight is about the opposing parties, neither could care less about the people... That's why I see it ending badly. Nothing about who broke the law, they have been breaking laws for years. Trump is certainly not the first, and won't be the last. he just is no politician and played the system poorly. But in the end, the majority will speak, as they always have, and we are left with their decision. Why prolong it, why pay for it?

      2. hard sun profile image89
        hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        For sure. But, you know, who cares about corruption and illegal behavior when Donald Trump is at the helm...after all, he is the chosen one,

        1. Randy Godwin profile image91
          Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

          Yes, just like Limbaugh claims to be gift from God.  roll

          1. hard sun profile image89
            hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

            A really turd of a god maybe.

            And, Bolton was locked out of his Twitter account for two months after his resignation. White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said former national security adviser John Bolton’s “advanced age” could be to blame. So, he forgot his password and that caused him to be unable to get into Twitter for two months? Never mind that Bolton states he had to go to Twitter to unlock it.

            If he were locked out for legitimate reasons, why lie about it? There's A LOT more going on here than any of us know.

      3. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        That Nunes traveled to Ukraine is an accusation.  Nothing has been proven.  So, there is not proof of this and only an accusation.  You need to realize an accusation is not the same thing as proof.

        1. hard sun profile image89
          hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

          Yet, in another thread, you are taking accusations and running around the world and back with them, lol. I guess it just depends on who is accused.

          "I'm hoping even the people on the left realize altering the warrant application for the FISA warrant is wrong.  I hope they realize this really causes problems for the FBI and all those involved.  I'm hoping they can comprehend how serious this is when it comes to the OBAMA era of spying on the Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign."

          1. Valeant profile image94
            Valeantposted 4 months agoin reply to this

            It's not in conservative nature to actually follow the things you complain about.  C'mon Hardsun, we all know this.

            1. hard sun profile image89
              hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

              Yeah, that's abundantly clear. You'd think "conservatives" would speak with caution and not be quick to accept radical conspiracy theories. Oh well. Who cares about truth and morals anyway?

          2. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

            "Attorney General William Barr told lawmakers two months ago that he was conducting his own examination of whether the government improperly “spied” on Trump’s campaign, at least the third examination by the department of its conduct around the 2016 election."

            https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol … 769752002/

            1. hard sun profile image89
              hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

              So? Trump's sent his lackey to investigate his conspiracy theory. Big news? Yet the mountain of evidence against Trump is irrelevant. Thanks again for proving my point.

              1. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                The bottom line, President Donald Trump's campaign was spied on by the FBI. The main issues is whether it is considered "proper" or "Improper."

                Considering the FISA warrant used to justify it has been proven bogus and it is possible the FISA warrant application could have been intentionally altered.

                Are you able to comprehend how wrong that is to do to a presidential candidate?

                1. hard sun profile image89
                  hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  Are you able to comprehend the hypocritical nature of telling everyone about how they are convicting Trump before a trial, yet you are convinced of some wrong doing here based upon allegations, which by my understanding, only refer to getting a warrant that would have likely been approved at any rate?

                  If the FBI agent did something wrong, I hope he's held accountable. This is a fly on an elephants but compared to the Trump's people allegations, and convictions.

                  I've noticed you growing more and more disrespectful with your comments Mike. You also know I can be disrespectful right back, and your comments don't phase me, so maybe you should reel in the name calling a bit, or you will be opining again about how people cannot carry on civil conversations after you personally attack them. Take it easy bub.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image95
                    Readmikenowposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    Be as disrespectful to me as you desire.  I can take it.  Say whatever you want. 

                    I grew up in a time where we were taught "Sticks and stones can break my bones but word will never hurt me."

                    Think about it.

                    Being this sensitive, do you really believe you're ready to play in the tall weed with the big dogs?

                2. Valeant profile image94
                  Valeantposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                  The FISA warrant has definitely not be proven bogus, that's an outright lie.  And second, it wasn't done to a candidate, that's another ridiculous lie.  It was done to someone who had left his campaign. 

                  Do you ever get tired of spewing these amazing lies?

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image91
                    Randy Godwinposted 4 months agoin reply to this

                    He emulates his leader Don, as do many of his defenders.

  12. hard sun profile image89
    hard sunposted 4 months ago

    Okay tsadjatkko, now I understand just how much you really did make my point. You seriously copied that list straight from whitehouse.gov, lol.

    1. tsadjatko profile image64
      tsadjatkoposted 4 months agoin reply to this

      And your point would be?

      1. hard sun profile image89
        hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

        Wow. You seriously don't understand that using Trump's own propaganda might be kind of biased? It might just stretch the truth a bit? "My administration" lol...with all the Trump bravado. I voted for Obama twice, I would have never had the gall to use his own propaganda to support how great he is. And, Trump is the king of salesmanship, so it comes off as even more outrageous. Seriously..take a step back and look at how this comes off, especially in the context of a discussion on just how far up Trump's rump some of his supporters are. There's no reasoning here. There's no questioning. That is exactly what is scary.

        1. tsadjatko profile image64
          tsadjatkoposted 4 months agoin reply to this

          What propaganda? Can you refute any of these accomplishments? No you can’t or you would, so you simply  call facts propaganda and hope the morons out there agree with you out of blind hatred but you are fooling no one with a moral compass. This explains what the impeachment is about.

          https://youtu.be/X94mysRhozY

          1. hard sun profile image89
            hard sunposted 4 months agoin reply to this

            https://www.good.is/articles/obamas-ach … -in-office

            28 Of Barack Obama’s Greatest Achievements As President Of The United States

            Refute these point by point. Do you see the randomness of your question, and the desperate need to defend and show your loyalty to Trump? The discussion is about impeachment, Trump's temperament, his loyal followers following him off a cliff,etc. There is no reason for me to do a policy homework assignment for you.

            Besides many of the points are so vague and opinionated, they are essentially meaningless. "Record number of regulations, keeping Guantanamo Bay, move embassy to Jerusalem, building a wall etc. Many of these things are simply not good by many people's standards. So, even disregarding the lies, half truths, and entirely unproven assertions there's not many facts here to be argued. Do you see? No, I'm sure you don't.

 
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