I am more than distressed with Warren's announcement that she is dropping from the Presidential race.
I am reminded of a scene from Star Trek "First Contact" when the crew of the Enterprise are forced to go back in time from the 24th to the mid 21st Century to combat cybernetic creatures know as the "Borg". You know the one. Counselor Troy absolutely overwhelmed by the savagery and barbarism of her surroundings commented in explanation that it was a "primitive culture and she had to struggle to blend in".
That is where I am with this country and her people right now.
Yes, Warren had made a couple of mistakes in the campaign, one being this issue regarding her Native American ancestry, which was mostly rightwing bullsh@t attempts of stirring up,a pot.
The other was her uncertainty regarding the idea of Medicare for All.
Trump can't get two things right, but always receive a free pass, regardless.
Why is she held to so much more of a higher standard than Joe Biden with his endless guffaws?
There remains a misogynistic streak in the American character and why it remains while so other Western Democracies have moved on remains a mystery.
Warren has always been a tireless advocate for working people and the middle class against the moneyed interests. Perhaps, I underestimate the power of the oligarch as to the reach of its tentacles? Some have complained about her being a mere apparatchik rather than a leader. Well, the first criteria for being a leader is having tenable plans and directives rather than just the kissing babies and gladhanding approach.
We are still a soft headed superficial culture, one where we allow misogyny and racism to drown out a legitimate message.
It reaffirms that which I have always believes to be true "America is Trump and Trump is America".
At this point, I can only hope that Elizabeth gives Bernie the endorsement and that Bernie might consider her as a running mate.
Joe Biden and the same old tired bromide will be disaster for the party. It still represents too much of the Trumpian system and attitude, just with a more palatable face.
This is all IMHO, thanks....
I am sorry for your loss Cred, but concerning most of your references to the obstacles she faced, and the ones she couldn't overcome, you do remember that this was a Democrat primary and those obstacles were Democrat voters don't you?
Nice to have you help me as a pallbearer, GA.
The results of the primary confirms what you have always told me, while people complain about the system they are more fearful of change. That was quite evident in the results Tuesday night.
African American voters distress me. Why did Biden with his Johnny-come lately as Obama's VP becomes such a hero? We continue to be obsessed with "Underground Railroad" politics. Biden's attitude and approach seems pretty transparent to me. I see things differently than a lot of my brethren. Thankfully, my native Colorado came through for Sanders.
Sanders, Warren and the progressives get to the root of nagging problems in American society while Corporate Democrats want to cover it over with a coat of paint. All the same, the Republicans say that there is no problem and let's double down on what's already rotten.
Sorry to hear that things didn't work out the way you hoped with Warren's candidacy, Credence. I'm with you on hoping for her and Bernie to heal their rift and team up to push forward the progressive agenda. I certainly hope she doesn't get assimilated by the corporate Establishment.
I also share your frustrations with Biden. I, seemingly along with millions of other Americans, don't think the Democratic leadership even believes that he can win against Trump. IMO opinion he is the plausible deniability candidate. He's prominent enough a figure for the Dems argue that they tried if he loses to Trump. Whether he wins or loses, the oligarchy is secure and controlled opposition continues.
And now some women's organisation is asking Warren not to endorse Bernie because he has 'done nothing for women."
https://www.newsweek.com/warren-urged-n … rs-1490872
Rachel Maddow is also bad-mouthing Sanders.
How anyone can consider Biden with his track record, plus he is clearly bordering on dementia, is beyond me.
I think there is a lot of anxiety among Democratic voters about choosing the right person to beat Trump. Many voters see Biden as the safe choice who will attract moderates and independents. I don't personality agree with them but it's hard to convince people to take what they see as a risk.
Certainly Biden may attract moderates and independents.He won't, however, change the system. And it appears that most people are okay with the system.
Most people aren't OK with the system. A small number of rich and powerful people have grabbed more control in recent years with the help of Russian propagandists and a corrupt tax system.
Fortunately, more Americans are catching on to the abuse of power by the extreme right. The fact that Sanders is doing so well is proof of that fact.
So here we are, and all the 'moderate' candidates dropped out (DNC interference), and left the field open to Biden, and he flourished.
Now with Warren out of the picture, the progressives have to go somewhere. I hope to hell they go to Bernie.
Tessa, a most intriguing point you have made. If you ask me, I think this Sanders anti-woman thing is just a crock. It was all contrived by corporate Democrats and Republicans to discredit Bernie and create doubts about him and his candidacy that are not justified. I am willing to say that even NOW has allowed itself to be compromised and infected by powerful forces wanting to maintain the status quo. Is maintaining the incremental status quo regarding women's rights really the way to go? The Rightwinger will use any trick both fair and foul to trip up
a truly progressive movement. How are going to move the ball forward with either the GOP or corporate DINOs?
This is a link to a very well written and right on target article, I would like you and others to read and tell me what you think.
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/02/bernie-s … race-women
Oh, I totally agree. It's all slander and propaganda to discredit him - none of it is true.
On Twitter, there are a lot of posts saying "I was with Warren - now I'm with Bernie."
But Warren hasn't indicated who she will endorse. She apparently hates Biden.
But before 2016, she wasn't too fond of Hillary either, and then she endorsed her.
I am not a feminist, by the way - merely a strong woman.
I have been a Bernie supporter since he first came under my radar - not sure when that was - about 2011, I think. I was so pleased when he decided to run in 2016, and then it didn't happen.
I think that there was only room for one 'extremist' politician, and Bernie had a leg up on her - on top of your basic female misogyny, of course. The only woman men would consider voting for potus is their own mothers - if they approve of them. Men, of course, can get away with anything. Women still have a long way to go. Its really frustrating.
On the flip side, she really needed to step back and let Biden and Bernie fight it out. Biden needs to win if we're going to kick Trump out of that office. Bernie might be able to do it, Biden probably can do it - but Liz couldn't. Maybe if SHE had run against Bernie last time instead of Hillary. But even then, probably not - just cuz she's another shrill chick, competent or not.
There is no such thing as a squeaky-clean politician - especially if they are seasoned and experienced. But, that is what men expect out of women - they could obviously care less what kind of lives or careers male politicians lead or how they act, etc.
Absolutely nothing unusual going on here, LoL!
I truly hope that you're right when you say that Biden will win against Trump. I think that both Biden and Bernie (and I support Bernie) may well lose against Trump. The polls don't show strong support for the Dems.
I said 'probably' - most likely out of all the Dem candidates, although I think Bernie and Trump would be more interesting to watch. And frankly, I think it would be really really good for the country to actually debate (and hear both sides of) these two extremist views.
I just think too many people CAN'T vote for Bernie on the Conservative side - and we need #NeverTrumpsters to vote on the Dems side this time around. Its much easier for them to vote for mediocre Joe.
Of course, on the flipside, there are many Bernie supporters who will vote for Trump again if Bernie is not the party nominee. Bernie supporters are not Democrats, so they have no loyalty - they are Independents trying to hijack one of the major parties to accomplish their goals.
Its an admirable tactic, in general - except that kind of spite has led to Trump as potus (that's not the only thing), and it may lead to a Trump 2nd term. That doesn't exactly inspire Dems to let Bernie take over the party, which is no-doubt one of the reasons why they fight him so hard.
Its definitely a toss-up as to who will hold the most sway - and maybe we need to know that about this country. This could be a good indicator as to what 'the majority' really want. (I certainly HOPE it is obvious to the GOP by now, that some of their extremist views are actually being rejected by the majority - not embraced. But, that's probably not happening, ha!)
But, I would be lying if I said I didn't have at least a sliver inside of me that is hoping for Bernie to win, just so we can have a wild ride through to Election Day. I'm ready to vote for Biden or Bernie, either way.
We appear to differ on some things and differ on others.
Many Trump supporters would vote for Bernie, but not for a moderate Democrat.
The real issue here (in the Dem primaries) is between progressives (the system that was politically active in the USA from the late 19th century to the mid-70s) and neoliberalism (which was introduced by Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.
The progressives are old style democrats while the Republicans and current DNC and moderates are neoliberals.
Here's a bit of history about progressivism. It's what actually made the USA successful for so long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressi … ted_States
The reason a few Bernie voters voted for Trump (stupid) was that they were desperate to get rid of the economic system and Trump said he was was going to clean the swamp. Never happened. He was the swamp.
https://www.thenation.com/article/archi … democracy/
To be honest, this time I think it's going to be worse (from what I see on Twitter, anyway).
If Bernie isn't elected as the nominee, then Sanders voters will simply sit out and watch. To them, it's fairly simple. Neoliberalism is the driver of climate change, and while they might not approve of Trump, climate change if a far greater problem because it's existential.
I have no idea what is going to happen. I think the chances are that Trump will get a second term. I don't like that, but by the time he leaves office, so much damage will be done, that it would take generations to recover, and they will never again be in a world leading position.
The thing is that Trump supporters genuinely do not see this. They don't live in the rest of the world. They don't see the media. They don't speak to the people. America started losing friends when Tony Blair agreed with Bush to go into Iraq. I was living in the UK at the time. Parliament voted not to go into Iraq. Tony Blair abused his authority and agreed to go into Iraq with Bush. He lost his premiership at the next election and he has never been forgiven for putting British lives at risk.
There is now a lot of resentment against the States. Trump hasn't helped.
So the whole situation is very sad. And bad.
I will be in Houston between April and June, but either in Portugal or South Africa when Americans vote.
"Many Trump supporters would vote for Bernie, but not for a moderate Democrat."
Many GOP would vote for a moderate Republican or Democrat - but not for someone like Trump OR Bernie.
If I remember correctly, you are a former fundamental christian. You should remember what that was like. We're trying to hit the majority - you know, play it safe. Sometimes the game calls for it. The number of Trump supporters who would switch to Bernie this election is low since Trump is still in the race - unless they were Bernie supporters to begin with.
Also, if you know anything about history - you know it takes time to change the embedded dynamics of a society. Decades, at least - sometimes a lot longer. There is plenty of time for another candidate like Bernie to come along and change things. Just because Biden the mediocre might get voted in - doesn't mean that we're going backwards. We're just trying to stabilize things and start damage control.
"If Bernie isn't elected as the nominee, then Sanders voters will simply sit out and watch."
I don't care how much of the world you travel. I live in Seattle with a huge mass of Bernie supporters. It may have been just a few who voted for Trump last time; but now that they realize the power they have in numbers - the younger crowd, anyway - is seriously thinking and talking about using their vote as a weapon.
They don't feel they are being heard - on things like climate control, etc; and they don't feel it from either party, except with Bernie. Plus, the younger supporters are sick to death of hearing all about how THEY are just a bunch of stupid millennials - from the 'older crowd' of both/all political parties. That isn't helping at all.
As far as many of them are concerned, they would happily blow up the entire political system if they could - and a vote for Trump would exacerbate that and make them feel like they had been heard (for awhile, anyway).
I ride the bus a lot during different times of the day; and I overhear all kinds of conversations - over and over again, the same ones about the same things. Credence wasn't the only one hoping for Warren to pull through. A lot of women around here were rooting for her. I rarely heard the other female candidate names mentioned. Something funny: homeless people LOVE Trump. He inspires them. LoL!
Yes, that is what I said, "If Bernie isn't elected as the nominee, then Sanders voters will simply sit out and watch."
The two most important issues to Progressives are climate change and the economic system (neoliberalism - everything for profit against a mixed economy - only some things for profit).
I'm not sure what you mean about you don't care how much of the world you travel - that there are enormous numbers of Bernie supporters in Seattle. And, yes, there were enormous numbers of Google Plus when I was there and there are enormous numbers of Bernie supporters on Twitter. My entire stream are Bernie supporters, basically because I'm a Bernie supporter. I've been a progressive since 1966.
Why does Trump inspire the homeless? Am I missing something?
What worries me about Biden is he appears to be in the beginning stages of dementia, and he has a terrible record of voting for things that aren't going to go down well with progressives. And I honestly don't know if they will vote for him if he is the nominee.
I honestly don't know who the majority would vote for. As far as the Dems go, it may well be Biden. But nobody does polls on Independents, and that might go either way.
I truly don't think anyone can call this election.
"Many GOP would vote for a moderate Republican or Democrat - but not for someone like Trump OR Bernie."
The problem with this, MC, is that moderate Republicans are virtually non existent. Look at what is happening in Washington, it is Trump's way or the highway for any who dare oppose him as did John McCain or Mitt Romney risking their political futures.
Playing it safe is what got us into trouble in 2016. As Bernie says, we are not going to dislodge Trump and all those in his collective, without massive turnout from an inspired and motivated electorate. Middle of the road, won't do. That is why Trump will lie about the state of the economy or play down the magnitude of the virus, because short of a catastroph, he will win a second term. Those odds work in his favor and to dislodge them, mediocrity won't do.
Yes, the young needs to weaponize their vote and consign the "hold the line" old folks to the cemetery.
Please read the article I linked to one of my earlier comments in this thread, explaining why Bernie is on target.
People voted for Trump based on the idea that he would "shake things up in Washington", when he is nothing more than a psuedopopulist who cleverly deceived them.
MC, why would homeless people adore Trump? They don't really believe his phony narratives, do they?
Gee MC, you paint a bleak scenario for America acknowledging that there never can be any real change. I really don't think a fellow's mother would fare any better. I communicate with many on this forum who are not rightwing pin heads that tell me that they still have some sort of problem with a woman as President. Is it the same problem that seemingly cannot be defined as to why they resisted AA, Jews or Catholics at varied times in history? I have no doubt that we will see a woman rise to the office inevitably. It is just tragic that the only acceptable change is incremental, continued delay and relief for the oligarchs' power structure that want to resist moving forward at any cost.
Instead of accommodating prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, resistance even if not always effective is better than just "rolling over". So don't be satisfied with your phaser on the stun setting, when the target needs to be vaporized.
Trump represents all that is sordid in America, misogyny is just a part of that.
Maybe it is time to support the change for attitude that "men can get away wth anything" instead of accommodate it?
Why is everyone so certain that Warren could not defeat Trump?
The attitude in regards to all this is awful and we must do better.
I didn't say there could never be any real change. Its just that this isn't the time for it. I know that Trump is one of your least favorite politicians. Do you really want him around for four more years?
"I communicate with many on this forum who are not rightwing pin heads that tell me that they still have some sort of problem with a woman as President."
I totally agree with that. Its still very much in our blood, ha!
"Instead of accommodating prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, resistance even if not always effective is better than just "rolling over".
Again: "...it takes time to change the embedded dynamics of a society. Decades, at least - sometimes a lot longer. There is plenty of time for another candidate like Bernie (or Warren) to come along and change things. Just because Biden the mediocre might get voted in - doesn't mean that we're going backwards. We're just trying to stabilize things and start damage control. Reminder: Trump.
"Maybe it is time to support the change for attitude that "men can get away wth anything" instead of accommodate it?"
How have I done that, exactly? You think Liz standing up to that (again) would have suddenly changed anything? She has almost NO support among conservatives; and we need #NeverTrumpsters votes.
"Why is everyone so certain that Warren could not defeat Trump?"
Because she's not Hillary. Most voters just started paying attention to her this year; and she comes across as 'not much different' than Bernie. And by now, you should know what the problem with Bernie is.
Sure either he or Warren would be fun against Trump. And I think Warren certainly could have stood up to Trump in more ways that I could have personally appreciated - but I'd rather do whatever it takes to make sure Trump exits this election. That includes me, as a woman, NOT electing a woman. What do you think I would rather have done? I want Trump out more than ANYTHING.
All he has to do is keep talking... That is going to be the thing that gets an 'acceptable' Dem in as potus again. If Trump would suddenly shut up and stop Twittering NOW - he might have a shot. But, he just keeps reminding people why we can't stand him; and why he has to go.
MC, when is it ever the time? How much time do we really have until the forces of the Right and reaction lock everything up? Trump is just the ominous beginning of this.
Having another candidate like Hillary Clinton, corporate Democrat, will present another 6 of one, half dozen of the other scenario, where the difference between, say, Biden and Trump are not stark enough to generate enough voting momentum needed to remove Trump. We need someone to vote for, not just someone we are voting against.
I know that the rightwingers have problems with Bernie, the "Establishment" have problems with Bernie. But, I have problems with both rightwingers and the "Establishment".
Liz would carve up Trump in any debate like a roast, but so would Sanders and most probably my Golden Retriever as well.
I want Trump out, too. We just disagree on the best way to do it.
"I didn't say there could never be any real change. Its just that this isn't the time for it."
We're out of time. We need to be on a war-time footing to stop climate change. If we don't take radical steps now - and Biden won't - then we will reach tipping point, and it can't be stopped.
That is the most vital issue today - internationally. If Biden takes the nomination, then, basically, there is no point in continuing. We're done as a species.
You might not think that it is that serious, but it actually is, and that is why, of Biden gets the nomination, Berners won't vote. There' s no more point. They won't be having grandchildren. We'll be extinct.
I feel your pain, credence. She was my personal favorite. And, her takedown of Bloomberg makes her my hero.
And the two remaining front runners for the party who hates old, white, men are; an old white communist, and an old white gaff machine. Funny how all that misogyny you are talking about is happening in your favorite party.
Warren is the root of all of her problems. She had a credibility problem. You can't lie yourself into victimhood..
Don't lay the claim of misogyny on the democratic voters she turned off with her antics. She crashed and burned of her own accord.
I don't consider accepting it is time to drop out of a race in any way comparable to death. Is every day a funeral to you? I bet you hold a wake when a coupon expires.
It was a joke Live to Learn. Remember the thread title, "Eulogy For Elizabeth Warren."
I suppose the "funeral" association came from that being where I think of hearing a Eulogy.
Here were folks 'mourning' over the loss of their candidate and you come along and point to warts on her nose.
Lighten up, a sense of humor is good for you.
Sounded like you had no sense of humor. I stand corrected. But, to respond to your original comment I am a hoot at funerals. But, we have fun at funerals. Except when someone had the misfortune of booking a born again preacher to officiate. Those are never fun.
Don't worry for Warren, I heard she might be teaming up with Bernie so they can loose together against Trump. That is if they can pay off more super delegates than Creepy Uncle Joe..
Well, there's a chance now that Biden may choose her as his running mate. Not quite the same, of course, but it might at least give a continued voice to her policy priorities.
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