The Biden Sanders debate

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   Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago

   Any thoughts about the debate so far? Joe seems to be holding his own thus far IMHO. No clear winner yet.

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      Eastwardposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Joe did hold himself together better than usual. It seems having some time off of the campaign trail helped him. He lied his ass off, but he'll have the mainstream media mitigate those issues for him 24/7. Was hoping Bernie would get a clear knockout punch in. He did well and went at Joe a little more aggressively than in the past, but didn't get a defining moment. CNN should be ashamed of taking the cheap "heart attack" shot at Bernie while not mentioning any of Biden's health issues.

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      1. 60

         Randy Godwinposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         I didn't realize Joe had any serious health issues. What are they?

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         1. 86

            Eastwardposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            He has had multiple brain surgeries in the past for cranial aneurysms.

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      2. 80

         Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

         Eastward,
         
         Bernie is a threat to the establishment and who do you think really controls the press? The liberal bias stuff may well be something contrived by the Right.
         
         Bernie has all of his marbles, I have to question that regarding Joe.
         
         If Bernie has to concede to Biden, it should not be without  concessions to the progressive Left and some of Bernie's proposals.

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         1. 86

            Eastwardposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with you, Credence. Bernie is a threat to The Establishment and they are doing everything in their power to stop him. Seeing a news outlet in Illinois accidentally posted the results of tomorrow's election today. The stories like this are nonstop. The oligarchs are in control. They own the media, they own the voting machines, they control which polling places are closed and moved. I'm losing all faith that there is any legitimacy in the system. Biden can lie through 2 hours of a debate and the mainstream media sings his praises. Anything Bernie says or does will be attacked because he's not willing to sellout the people in favor of the 1%. I am so repulsed by the Democratic party that I can see why people consider voting Trump to spite them. I don't think I could ever do it, but I understand it.
            
            Even if Biden does suddenly pick up some more progressive policies at the last minute to try and attract voters, I don't think they'll believe he'll follow through anyway (I wouldn't and from what I'm seeing, I'm far from alone).

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            1. 80

               Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Eastward, it just annoys me that people act like fatted cattle to allow the 1 percent to manipulate us so. America deserves Trump and deep down Trump know the he is what America needs.

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                  Eastwardposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I know what you mean, Credence. You can practically see the swirls in people's eyes as they march towards the edge. It saddens me greatly, but perhaps Trump really is a representation of America's values (or lack thereof).

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                     Ossaultposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     Trump is a business genius, and a social architect. His presence is getting felt worldwide. His support for the third world countries is phenomenal.

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                     1. 86

                        Eastwardposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        I'm not a fan, but congratulations on the endorsement from the DNC. It seems they want to be sure Trump gets 4 more years in office.

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                           Ossaultposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           Double that.

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            2. 88

               MizBejabbersposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Spoken like a true Leninist. But back to one of your statements that the oligarchs own the media, you didn't say which (party) oligarchs. The "leftist" media are owned by the right-wing capitalists, like Murdoch. Check it out. So the capitalists own the media, and they will control it in whichever direction makes them the most money.

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                  Eastwardposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm not against capitalism but am for a more hybrid model as seen in the rest of the industrialized world. If we don't address the inequality in our system, it will simply tear apart (perhaps at this very moment, we're closer than ever). You are right that capitalists own the media and they own the majority of the politicians. That's how we've ended up in a dystopia where everything is for-profit without regard for truth, justice, or basic decency in society. I feel a little foolish for holding out any hope that the two party system is anything but an illusion, but I think most Americans are susceptible to the lies and propaganda that we are so forcibly spoon-fed since childhood (we're certainly not the only country with this problem).

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                  RJ Schwartzposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Murdock own's some yes, but NBC, Time-Warner, Comcast, Disney, Viacom, CBS, ABC, Netflix, Facebook, etc. are all public but controlled by Leftist Capitalists

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   2. 80

      Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      “I commit that I will, in fact, pick a woman to be vice president,” Biden said during the Democratic presidential debate. “There are a number of women who are qualified to be president tomorrow. I would pick a woman to be my vice president.”
      
      "Bernie Sanders was less definitive about choosing a woman as a running mate, saying the important thing was to have someone who shares his progressive politics. However, he added that there were many women who do."
      
      Randy, Bernie gave the better answer, just committing yourself to add a woman to the ticket for its own sake is the wrong answer and really is an insult to the ladies.

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      1. 60

         Randy Godwinposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         Perhaps so Cred, but it may be the thing which makes the difference. Only time will tell...

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         PrettyPantherposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         I have to disagree with you on this one. I am not insulted and believe there is nothing wrong with committing  to a woman candidate. I doubt anyone batted an eye the many times in the past when  a candidate said they would  choose the  right man for the job.

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            Randy Godwinposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Me too, Sandy. I think it's high time we had a woman in the WH other than being married to the POTUS.

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            MizBejabbersposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            I agree. All I heard Bernie say all night was the same answer. We need medicare for everyone and it will take care of the problem. The only other thing he said was that he'd pick a woman, but she would have to agree to medicare for all. I never heard him say that she would have to agree with his progressive ideas, just medicare for all. I got disgusted and left the room.

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   Credence2posted 3 years ago

   Don't get me wrong guys, but it has to be just as important that the woman he selects is firm for Democratic Party values and more helpful, one that is a bridge for Biden to obtain support from the progressive side of the isle and not pick up just another "corporate Democrat".
   
   This is the opportunity to attract two birds with one stone. Hillary had the opportunity to round out her ticket with other than the milquetoast she selected as her running mate, effectively flipping the bird to Sanders and the progressive wing of the party. She lost. Sarah Palin is a woman as well, but who would warm up to her candidacy?

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3. 80

   Credence2posted 3 years ago

   https://www.salon.com/2020/03/14/the-on … n_partner/
   
   The above article is a little strong but basically puts before us the choice. And while I have to accept that the ideal and reality are often times far apart, are all of us so willing to capitulate so easily?
   
   I found a candidate that understood who the real protagonists were in this society with both the will and track record to get serious about bringing the "Death Star" down. This candidate "got it" and it just happened to be a woman. The fact that she was a woman was not necessarily an advantage but unlike so many others, I failed to see it as a detriment.
   
   I am not in to identity politics, where the candidate stands ideologically and politically is more important.
   
   I don't want Joe to pick a figurehead, a "girl Friday", just for political window dressing. I want him to show courage and select someone that is not content to be relegated into the back office of obscurity for 4 years. I want someone that is going to keep Biden's feet to the fire addressing many of the issues that it seems that only progressive democrats are concerned about. Would Joe work with Liz Warren as a VP choice, a true battle ax for working people? Would she be prepared to make concessions to appeal more to moderates? Is there a danger of watering down the stiff bracer to a point where it is ineffective?
   
   I really thought that this election and the nomination process could actually be an opportunity to move the ball down the court a bit, just a little bit?

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4. 90

   GA Andersonposted 3 years ago

   My perception of the debate isn't a good one from a Moderate or Independent perspective.
   
   Visually, I think Biden looked more presidential. He stood tall and spoke presidentially, (not that that should be a plus, but it appeared to be), and Sanders looked like an angry old man—stooped posture and waving his arms.
   
   Oddly, Sanders looked healthier, even so. Biden's skin color looked more like an old man's than Sanders'. It reminds me of the Nixon/Kennedy debate critique about how important appearances are. TV viewers thought Kennedy clearly won the debate because he looked so youthful and energized, and radio listeners thought Nixon clearly won the debate.
   
   On substance, I think Biden was 2nd best. I agree with MizBejabbers that Sanders was just the same old Sanders. Tossing out programs and tens-of-trillions 'investments' as if money grew on trees.
   
   Biden seemed to try to counter Sanders' points saying he would do the same—almost, but he doesn't have the credibility that Sanders does in my mind. I don't like many, (almost all), of Sanders'  freebie programs but at least I see honesty in what he says. I don't see that in Biden, I see pandering.
   
   But the worst was two points against Biden; He promised no non-fellon deportations during his administration. Doesn't that amount to an open-borders platform? And then there was his promise to pick a woman VP. Geesh, affirmative action at a presidential level.
   
   I would be fine with a female president or VP, but the choice should be the best candidate for the job, without a gender or skin-color qualifier. I think it would have been much better if he had stated he wanted to pick a woman rather than he will pick a woman. I can imagine several other ways to answer that question that would reach the voters he is pandering to without it being such obvious pandering.
   
   I am not optimistic about Biden's chances against Pres. Trump in the General Election campaign. If Sanders could ding him and point out contradictions—while trying to be nice, just imagine the effect when that effort is delivered Trump-fashion.
   
   Back to the VP thing . . . My crystal ball is still hazy, but the image does look like a short-haired woman with glasses.
   
   GA

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5. 90

   GA Andersonposted 3 years ago

   That was a pretty strong article Cred, I can see why it appealed to you. There were many points that I also agree with. It sure wasn't very friendly to Bernie.
   
   The author nailed it with this:
   
   "There are no substantial political differences between the Democrats and Republicans. We have only the illusion of participatory democracy. The Democrats and their liberal apologists adopt tolerant positions on issues regarding race, religion, immigration, women's rights and sexual identity and pretend this is politics. The right-wing uses those on the margins of society as scapegoats. The culture wars mask the reality. "
   
   GA

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   1. 80

      Credence2posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      How can anybody ignore the ramifications of this paragraph? Is it no wonder lefties like me remain up in arms over what this all means and the acquiescence of virtually everyone in their ready acceptance of their own exploitation.
      
      Unfortunately, Bernie got cold feet in the face of this giant monolithic structure with which he had to contend.  We still need people willing to call it out for what is is.

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