Election: Rigged OR NOT?

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  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

    When you try to find evidence on the internet today, it is very hard to prove the election was rigged.

    Yet there are those who are very convinced.

    To isolate the difficulty: the pandemic enabled the rigging of the election by allowing and encouraging mail-in voting.

    Maybe next time around we will insist on in-person/polls and the showing of driver's licenses.

    1. Valeant profile image87
      Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Maybe next time you can look at the research that has shown mail-in voting to be a very secure method of voting for over twenty years now in the states.

      So are you saying that you're against giving people a safe way to vote during a pandemic?  That you want to put their lives in danger if they want to exercise their Constitutional rights?  That's sort of an inhumane stance if you ask me.

      And then maybe you can explain how there was fraud when the paper ballots matched up with the machine vote tallies in all the swing states, since they all had a verifiable paper trail.

      There are those that are convinced because they believe the lies spewed by a known liar who was on the losing end of the election.  The same lies he spewed in 2016 when he claimed that fraud caused him to lose the popular vote.  And when he formed a commission to investigate those claims, they found that there was no fraud.  So it was proven by his own people  that he lied about there being fraud that caused him to lose the popular vote.  And yet, even in the face of that historical precedent, 75% of the GOP still believes this idiot.

      1. Live to Learn profile image73
        Live to Learnposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Historic mail in voting procedure is different than what we had in this election.

        I regard the refusal to investigate with a lot of suspicion. I also regard the way the left ignores the specific problems and the testimony of American citizens and chastise any who question, as if they are treasonous as indicative of a fear to delve into the evidence.

        1. Valeant profile image87
          Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          And yet, that paper trail exists of those ballots with mail-in voting.

          I regard the refusal to accept rulings on those claims by members of the judiciary ample claim for treasonous behavior.  When you fail to abide by the decision of the courts, you've pretty much stopped believing in democracy.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
            Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Rule by the majority, as with a pure democracy, is exactly why we do not have a pure democracy.

            We, The U(United) S(Tates) of A(merica), have a democratic REPUBLIC and a constitution which provides checks and balances to the formation/domination of unjust factions.

        2. MizBejabbers profile image87
          MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          "Historic mail in voting procedure is different than what we had in this election."

          Not where I live, and I don't believe other states made changes except those allowed by the pandemic. Mail-in voting has always been done the same way except for a couple of times when courts have struck down certain laws. I explained this in another reply.

    2. Valeant profile image87
      Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      This comment would have been flagged as false by any social media platform who cared about honesty.  Thankfully for you, you're hiding out here.

    3. MizBejabbers profile image87
      MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Many states have struck down the showing of IDs as discriminatory the same as they struck down paying a poll tax to vote. After laws requiring the showing of a photo ID in order to vote in person or for mail-in ballots passed by the state legislature in Arkansas were struck down twice by courts, in 2018 an amendment was added to the state's Constitution requiring a photo ID in either case.
      We voted by mail for the first time this year due to covid. When we received our mail-in ballots, the instructions were clear if a person was a new or irregular voter but they were confusing to regular voters as to whether the person should submit a photo ID or an affidavit. It actually said we could submit an affidavit in lieu of a photo ID, and that would be checked against our voter records. So we signed affidavits and didn't send photos.
      After the election was over and counted, we received notification that our ballots were marked "provisional" and our voter qualifications were authenticated after the election. We were assured that our votes were counted.
      I think this is a standard process in most states. How much room for fraud is there when an election is conducted this carefully? BTW, Arkansas is a Red state, and we voted Blue. So I fail to see why people can't understand how careful the process is. Their ignorance is an insult to our democratic republic. They need to get off their duffs and get an education in the government process.

    4. peterstreep profile image80
      peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      People believe the strangest things without evidence.
      But if you want to prove something before court, you do need evidence.
      "innocent until proven guilty". Isn't that build in the American society? Or is an accusation enough nowadays?
      There was no evidence for fraud, so case closed. Except for people who believe justice can be done without evidence.

      1. Credence2 profile image79
        Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Peter, after your analysis of this issue, you can see that when you get to the root is that what conservatives have been whining about but will not admit is that their only acceptable and legitimate outcome is the one where Trump wins.

        So,  I wish that the Right would dispense with the smoke and mirrors that there is actually a sound and reasonable argument that they put forth in regards to this matter.

        1. peterstreep profile image80
          peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          The sad thing is they won't. As they will build the next election campaign on this lie. They will treasure this lie 4 years long. Let it simmer and grow.
          It's a tactic Hitler (Yes that name again) used as well. To spread the lie that Germany had almost won the 1e WW, but that it was the jews and the left who pulled the plug out of the war and signed the surrender. Also called the "Stab-in-the-back myth". The same is happening here.
          A lie is carefully created to attack the democracy.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

          1. Credence2 profile image79
            Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Are we all condemned as humans to continue to make the same mistakes? Trump and his Trumper dweebs are more than happy to blame their neighbors for their problems instead of being discerning enough to look at "who is behind the curtain", AKA Adolf Hitler. Republicans loath the principles behind government, seeing it in itself as a threat as if somehow 325 million people can function without one.

            So, why now? This is about racial, social economic disparities and resentment. It all started with the idea of "vote fraud" dredged up basically in counties that are heavily populated by people of color in critical swing states. The fact that the usual GOP suppression tactics failed combined with overwhelming turnout created anger and frustration on the "other side" over a reality that they dare not mention nor be candid about.

            1. GA Anderson profile image88
              GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              "AKA Adolf Hitler"

              Really? You too Cred?  Hitler, Nazis, Goring, Ribbentrop, Hemmler, Auschwitz. Nothing else needs to be said, right?

              With references like that your argument is bulletproof, right? Bullshit. With references like that your argument demonstrates that it is too weak to stand on its own.

              You made a wrong turn. Your choir room is two doors down on the left.

              GA

              1. Credence2 profile image79
                Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                There has not been any period of time in American History where any President could have one think about the Third Reich and its abuses. Number 45 is it. Maybe, the fact that you cannot see this makes you the odd man out? So, how about you stop being an apologist for Trump, his regime and his followers?

                So, I have a bone or two to pick with you.

                You tell me that Biden and the Democratic majority need to kumbaya with the the Republicans. These Republicans, that at the highest levels of government denied the outcome of the November election. A party that invented elaborate conspiracy theories to cover up anti-democratic autocratic belief systems. A party that had members of the esteemed congressional body that more than likely were involved in an act of insurrection, and it is nothing less than that. This is the same party that says that we should be willing to work with them and reasonably expect that would actually help with the Biden agenda? Hardly, there is every reason to distrust them at this point.

                So, No, emphatically NO.

                But, really, McConnel does remind me a bit of Joseph Goebbels.

                1. GA Anderson profile image88
                  GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  From Trump supporter to Trump apologist. That sounds like a promotion.

                  I have previously said the gist and tone of your post-election comments are clearly a stance of if you ain't with me, you are against me. And that still seems to be the case. You seem so hell-bent on revenge and punishment that nothing else matters.

                  Whether you like it or not, the Biden presidency has to find a way to reach out to the other half of America to be successful.

                  I don't think a position of 'My way or the highway' will get that done.

                  GA

                  1. Credence2 profile image79
                    Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    It not about revenge GA, but cooperation. After all this fawning of Trump and the treachery of the Republicans as of late, I simply don't trust them to be honest brokers in seriously seeking compromise with Democrats

            2. peterstreep profile image80
              peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Are we all condemned as humans to continue to make the same mistakes?

              Looks like it.

              This is about racial, social economic disparities and resentment. - Yep.

              In the end, it's about the 1% against the 99%. Who has gained the most?
              What was the first thing the Republicans/Trump did when they came to power? Not building the wall as promised. But to give tax benefits to the super-rich.
              Creating a crisis is the best thing for the rich. As they can buy stuff cheap and sell it when the recession is over. And Trump was a master in creating a crisis. Day in day out provoking with Tweets, to keep us and the headlines busy.
              A crisis keeps people busy and so they don't think about the huge gap between the 1% and the 99%. But make "pitty arguments" about foreigners and racial justice, women's rights etc. (never about money, the real issue.)
              Trump bought his presidency, that's something to think about. Not with skill, but with money you buy the most powerful job in the world! So you can make laws that benefit people with tons of dollars and keep a system that benefits the rich. It's hard to break this system. And to be honest I don't think it will. Not Obama, nor Biden will or can break this profitable "democracy". (and the US is not the only country that works this way, most countries do, sadly enough.)
              Tax the rich. (OMG, don't curse...)
              What has Trump paid in tax and contributed to society... What did Jeff Bezos pay, or Mark Zuckerberg...?

              take care.

              1. profile image0
                Nippon101posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Deleted

                1. peterstreep profile image80
                  peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  It looks that he has good intentions. And the change of the portrait on the $20 note from a slave owner to the black woman Harriet Tubman who was a slave herself and took part in the rescues of hundreds of enslaved people is a good start.

                  1. profile image0
                    Nippon101posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Good reply.

                  2. Credence2 profile image79
                    Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    While all of that is well and good, I am more concerned about the opportunity of those $20s being more fairly distributed within this society rather than whose likeness is on the currency.

              2. Credence2 profile image79
                Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                No, Peter, I could not go so far to think that I can change the "system" any more than I can expect the Earth to stop orbiting its Sun.

                But, there needs to be push back to remind the oligarchs every now and then that this is a government of the people and it is not for sale. And believe me, without safeguards, "they" would take it all if they could.

                The candidates that were serious about addressing these disparities were passed off as kooks and socialists and all that. The powers that be made sure that they could never have a voice or be offered as a serious alternative to your choices of bromide.

                Thus, my suspicion as to how Biden managed to move to front runner so quickly during the campaign when his prospects moments before were dismal. Or, why Bloomberg got involved in the campaign, not expecting to win, but explicitly derailing the prospects of candidates that understood the root of the problem and the underlying villains involved and were willing to do something about it beside utter the same old platitudes.

                The public was never intended to understand the whereabouts and true nature of the "man behind the curtain".  The system is already corrupt and the oligarchs will pull all stops to keep it that way to maintain their position.

                Those exemplary candidates were Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

                1. peterstreep profile image80
                  peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Apparently it's easier for a fascist to become a president of the United States than a socialist.

                  Yes Biden, was not my candidate either, too conservative. Same old thing (no pun intended.) Harris, I don't know her, but my gut feeling tells me she's also working for the upper class. (but I could be wrong.)

                  It's good to know though that there is a young generation like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the squad trying to change things.

                  Let's hope that Biden is not just words and symbolic gestures.

        2. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Some here were highly offended when I said those who continue to believe the election was stolen should be relegated to the fringes, along with moon landing deniers and flat earthers, but I think they should. At this point, still proclaiming massive election fraud is just plain loony.

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            What about those that don't believe there was massive fraud, but DO believe that it is a possibility AND that we will never know because we won't investigate properly?  Should those people, desiring only a legal, proper election now and in the future, be relegated to the fringes as well?  Should their requests for truth be ignored in favor of turning a blind eye because of an untested belief?

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              As far as I am aware all credible allegations were investigated. That was the position of Trump's DOJ, Trump's FBI, state election officials including Republican s, and judges including Trump appointees.

              What is left?

              Are you a person who denies that a legal process has been followed? If so,where are the crack legal teams making sure it is followed?

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                How many of the witnesses and whistleblowers testified before a court?  I believe there was at least a hundred of them - how many testified?  How many computer experts examined the software and hardware of the voting machines and gave their testimony in court?  How many handwriting experts examined the dates on ballots and testified?  How many legal experts have, in a courtroom, made a case for states not following their own laws in changing requirements for mail in ballots?

                There is a vast difference between "Your case is thrown out because it was not timely" and a thorough investigation into the allegations.  My limited information is that only a single case was actually heard at all, and it was thrown out because there was insufficient evidence to change that state's vote.  Not because there was NO evidence - because it wouldn't make a difference.  While that is fine (I guess) for the past election, it doesn't do much for future ones.  IMO.

                Or perhaps the difference in opinion here is that little world "credible"?  Is it that anything that does not show a fair election (the desired conclusion) is not "credible" and thus not worthy of investigation?

                *edit* the case filed against Guliano (sp?) by the maker of the machines could be interesting - with a lot more time to work, will it be shown that there really is a "backdoor" into the machines, OR that votes can be easily changed with no record of that change?  Will the reported connections to crime and/or "criminal countries" be shown?

                1. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  I'm sorry but this is so irrational. If I go to the police and say I think you stole my lawnmower and the police investigate and find no evidence (no lawnmower in your possession, no evidence you sold it, no video of you taking it, no witnesses), should the case against you go to court? Probably not, but let's say some lawyer believed me so much she decided to take my case to court and put it before a judge, who looks it over and dismisses it.

                  Would you think it rational for the entire neighborhood to think you stole the lawnmower even though the case was so flimsy it was dismissed? After all, the judge never heard my case and I'm an upstanding citizen.

          2. Credence2 profile image79
            Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Panther, they are offended because it represents a large swath of the Trump voting electorate. What happened in 2000 or even 2016, the Democrats that lost put their loyalty to the Democratic system and accepted the outcome, what does the GOP do stirring up all this nonsense for so long?

            1. Lone Wolf Prime profile image73
              Lone Wolf Primeposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Honestly, i think all parties involved should just accept the fact that Biden is our new president come hell or highwater, and just move on.  We have enough problems in this country than worrying about the legitimacy of Biden's victory in the election.

              1. Credence2 profile image79
                Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Amen, brother!

            2. GA Anderson profile image88
              GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              And with a straight face, you can say that the 2016 Democrats put their loyalty to the Democratic system? Hmm . . . they began beating the illegitimacy drums in 2015, and spent the next 5 years working that same democratic system to get their way. Yep, that 'fer sure' sounds like good losers accepting the outcome and abiding by the Democratic system—not.

              Geesh bud. Take a minute and hit "Preview" to look at your comment before you post it.

              GA

              1. Valeant profile image87
                Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Almost as bad as the entirety of the GOP ignoring that Russia, a hostile foreign government, helped to elect Trump and saw no need to investigate why, or care at all when Trump commits ten counts of obstruction to protect Russia.

                What you call good losers, I would call protecting national security.

                1. Readmikenow profile image94
                  Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  "Almost as bad as the entirety of the GOP ignoring that Russia, a hostile foreign government, helped to elect Trump"

                  You really should read the Mueller Report.  American citizens paid millions for it.  Those of us who have read it can say your statement is blatantly false.

                  I know, in case you don't have the internet skills required to find a copy of the report let me help you.  Here is a copy of it from your favorite news outlet known as CNN.

                  https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/18/politics … index.html

                2. GA Anderson profile image88
                  GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  I think I recall you mentioning that once before. It was probably addressed then.

                  GA

              2. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                My, you have definitely fallen off the fence and landed on your @ss! lol

                I might point out that, yes, the Democrats used every tool at their disposal to remove a criminal.president from.office,just as their constituents wanted, but it was all within the law.

                Yeah, I get it that you and others think it was rabid obstruction. But a good many Americans,including many principled Republicans (such as those forming The Lincoln Project) are thankful the Democrats are standing up to the crazy, lawless wannabe-President-for-Life. And they are doing it lawfully.

                1. GA Anderson profile image88
                  GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Yep, it was lawful, and yep, I do think it was rabid obstruction. And, yep, many times I think it was deserved. But many times it wasn't.

                  GA

              3. Credence2 profile image79
                Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Yes, there was much more to question regarding the 2016 outcome, did Clinton spend two months denying that Trump won the election? Did Clinton spend that time undermining the democratic process?

                She, having won the popular vote, with Trump winning battleground states and the electoral college by the skin of his teeth, regardless, she concedes as every losing candidate has except in the past with the noted exception of Donald Trump.

                We are all free to protest, I don't have to like my adversary. But, sacking the Capitol Building, and impeding the transition process for then President Elect Biden was the last straw. When have the Democrats done that?

                So, don't compare similarities  Democrats with Republicans in this regard because the differences are quite stark if you bother to look closely.

              4. Ken Burgess profile image91
                Ken Burgessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                That reminds me, if anyone should know about stolen/rigged elections, it is certainly the Democrats, from 2016.

                After all, that is how they got Clinton rather than Bernie...

                But 2020 was so much sweeter to watch, they had a gaggle of misfits and a couple decent options thrown in.

                They character assassinated the two Dark Horses as they began to get some attention and interest, they even wheeled out Clinton to throw accusations of Russian Collusion at one of them (Tulsi) while making sure another (Yang) was given no air time or coverage at all.

                Then after Bernie had a big win (NH) the puppet masters pulling the strings said "oh hell no... not again" and they pulled just about everyone running into a "side room" got them to drop out, and overnight everyone was voting for Biden and the election was over...

                Mind you, two months prior to his suddenly winning the nomination everyone was making fun of Biden, including most Democratic pundits, and laughing at his on stage gaffs and countless times he couldn't recall where he was or what he was talking about.

                But hey... its all legit... Bernie didn't get skrewed in 2016... and the field wasn't completely cleared of all competition for Biden in 2020... nah... Biden is exactly who everyone wanted and adored for his brilliance and fresh ideas all along.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  How Bernie lost in California, I'll never understand.
                  The Dems, especially the young ones, loved him!

                  1. tsmog profile image76
                    tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Bernie won the primary in California with 33.91%. Biden was 26.57%.

    5. Lone Wolf Prime profile image73
      Lone Wolf Primeposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      The problem is even if the election was rigged, you'd have no way to prove it honestly.  Look at what's been going on with the Robinhood App, and the Game Stop Stock.   When a band of reddit users screwed over the hedge fund companies using their own tactics against them to drive up the stock of Game Stop, the Robin Hood app temporarily put a ban on people to buy anymore stocks into game stop, which angered a lot of reddit users to downvote the app on the google play store, which google deleted because they didn't want to look bad.  Therefore, it's hard to find evidence even if Biden and his camp did cheat to win because the big tech companies will normally side with whoever pays their bills and butters their bread.   

      Either way, I think it's best for all parties involved to just accept that Biden will be our president for the next four years.  Personally, I didn't like either candidate, so this doesn't bother me much, but we'll see what happens.  Cheers. 

      Edit: For the record, I'm not saying Biden cheated to win, as I honestly don't know if he did.  As of right now, I'm going to assume he did win legitimately until proof comes out to prove otherwise, but I am open to the possibility that the democratic party cheated to win this election, but I said the same thing about Trump in 2016 so I guess we'll never know for sure.

    6. DoubleScorpion profile image76
      DoubleScorpionposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      This Article may answer your question.

      https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

      1. tsmog profile image76
        tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        WOW!!! Enlightening!!! Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It definitely shows how fragile our Democratic process is. And what vigilance to the honest process means. IMHO

    7. peterstreep profile image80
      peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Some people believe the earth is flat. There are lots of videos on youtube that will explain this theory.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
        Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        The facts have been hidden. The force opposing America has become ruthless. Some gleefully jump on board the train of destruction and demise in favor of making people into slaves and data makers. This force wants to make children so connected to the internet that they will become automatons themselves. This force wants open borders so that the people who live and work here will loose their jobs and homes. This force wants to create equality where none should exist. This force wants us to give up common sense and logic in favor of utopian feel good thinking. Utopia, by the way, means that which can never be:
        Paradise on Earth.
        Never.
        Earth, wherever one lives, in any nation, is a hard place to live and we need common sense!

        We need to tend to reality.
        Not pretend to ILLUSION. which is what that force is implementing and encouraging in a myriad of ways.

        Blah to that force. May that force  N O T  be with you.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
          Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Will the  R E A L  force please stand up?

  2. profile image0
    PrettyPantherposted 11 months ago

    We are surrounded by fools.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
      Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      - this comment is reportable, in my opinion, (an opinion you value very little ... No Prob.)

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        "Some people say the election was stolen, but it is hard to find proof of that." [paraphrasing]

        Investigators, state election officials, the DOJ, the FBI, the judiciary--after hearing the allegations, reviewing the evidence, and investigating the evidence--all say the election was not stolen.

        " Yet, there are those who are very concerned."

        big_smile

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
          Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          convinced

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

    lol  lol  lol ! ! !

  4. LongTimeMother profile image93
    LongTimeMotherposted 11 months ago

    Celebrate, Americans! You are about to find out if the voting machines were accurate or not. In a court. Yay!

    Which means presumably we’ll all hear less of the ‘Rigged election’ cry that still dominates online (even now after the unthinkable / the thing that was never going to happen did ... on Inauguration Day.)

    Yes, the Republicans can assign their best legal experts to the task of proving their claims of voter fraud once and for all.

    Here’s the exciting news. (Good news for everyone ... or at least everyone with any interest in learning the actual. truth.)

    An election technology company that has been the focus of consistent conspiracy theories by Donald Trump and his allies has sued the former President's lawyer Rudy Giuliani for $ 1.3 Billion for defamation, saying he pushed the "Big Lie" about election fraud on his podcast and TV appearances.

    Giuliani is seemingly delighted to be sued, because now he can request all the information he needs from the company as part of the process, with the intention of proving his allegations.

    Trump and other entities including media outlets like Fox News will presumably be helping Giuliani because they are on the company’s list of people to sue. Giuliani is just #2 on the list.

    https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame … a8201bd227

    So this news is exciting for everyone, right?

  5. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

    Proving how badly the Democrats cheated during this past presidential election is gaining steam.  I hope Biden continues to do what he's doing, it help grow the number of people who want to know just how this mindless old fool actually got elected.  At the very least is warrants a federal investigation.  There is just too much evidence to ignore. 

    "Judge rules Virginia's late election law changes for mail-in ballots were illegal"

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … _98LoWGCHc

    This is from the liberal news outlet MSN.  This is huge since it sets precedent.  Expect more rulings like this to happen in the future.  Counting mail in ballots three days after an election changed it.  Without this, Biden would have certainly lose.  Simply taking all of them off the table changes the election dramatically. 

    "Pennsylvania Bombshell: Biden 99.4% v. Trump 0.6%
    Stunning testimony that the media has dutifully ignored."

    https://spectator.org/pennsylvania-bomb … trump-0-6/

    "What surfaced during hearings in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, on November 25, 2020, may set the standard for electoral outrageousness. An expert testifying to the Pennsylvania Senate flagged a batch of ballots that recorded some 570,000 votes for Joe Biden and only 3,200 for Donald Trump.

    Yes, you read that correctly. That would equate to Joe Biden bagging 99.4 percent of that enormous chunk of votes. That one batch alone would have flipped the state to Biden.

    This bombshell was dropped last Wednesday at the Wyndham Hotel in Gettysburg. The November 25 hearings, which began at 12:30 p.m. and ran for nearly four hours, were convened at the request of Sen. Doug Mastriano (R-Adams, Cumberland, Franklin, and York counties). It was sponsored by the Senate Majority Policy Committee, chaired by Sen. David Argall (R-Berks/Schuylkill). Mastriano has called what happened “unacceptable,” and has called for the resignation of Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar."

    "Arizona legislators have called for an “expeditious” forensic audit of the Dominion voting machines used in Maricopa County."

    "Top legislators from both the House and the Senate in Arizona have called for the forensic audit of the Dominion machines, which were only used in Maricopa County, the largest county in the state, and the only one that narrowly flipped from President Trump to Joe Biden according to preliminary election results."

    https://nationalfile.com/breaking-arizo … -machines/

    This is huge.  Again, it sets precedent.  This can be used to call for the forensic audit of voting machines in other states.

    1. LongTimeMother profile image93
      LongTimeMotherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I don’t think anyone should waste emotional energy on this issue.

      As I mentioned earlier, Dominion has begun launching multiple defamation cases.

      We’ll all know who has been telling the truth soon enough.


      https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame … a8201bd227

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        I welcome this lawsuit.  This means many things will be made part of the public record.  I think it is a good thing.  If Dominion was to eventually withdraw their lawsuits, I would not be surprised.  If they go forward, all the better.

        There is quite a bit of emotional energy on this issue and it is not going away.

  6. Valeant profile image87
    Valeantposted 11 months ago

    Blatantly false is about everything you write on this site.

    https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sit … olume5.pdf

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Really?

      Do you see the words "Colluded with the Trump campaign" in this report?  I didn't.

  7. Valeant profile image87
    Valeantposted 11 months ago

    Virginia:  Perhaps if there were 400,000 votes with illegible or missing postmarks, Mike could have a case that Trump won the states.   Charlotte Gomer, a spokeswoman for Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring, said the number of ballots with missing or illegible postmarks is likely very small.

    https://apnews.com/article/election-202 … 364826ea49

    Pennsylvania:  On the night between November 3rd and 4th, between 12 a.m. and 6 a.m. EST  both Trump and Biden’s votes increased by approximately 1 million. The biggest increase was from midnight to 3 a.m. after which the tallies stayed very stable.  So, not sure where Mike's 'expert' pulled his 3,200 vote total from to get his percent, but it appears he omitted about 996,800 votes to get there.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact … SKBN27Q307

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      re: the Pa voting sequence.  Given that the vote total was about 50-50, it is possible that any "batch" (from the link) would come in 600,000 to 3,000...but the odds of that are literally astronomical in size.  This is elementary probability at work.

      Regardless of the eventual total outcome, it is also a very valid reason to find out the "why" it happened.  Consider that if you flip a coin 10 million times you will not find any consecutive batch of 600,000 times that are all heads.  You may find 100 "heads" in a row, you could conceivably find 200 (very low probability), but you will not find a series of half million tosses that come in at 600,000 to 3,000.  Not unless the coin is weighted or mis-read.  And all the whining that the end count was what we needed to see does not change that.

      So what's the problem with finding out why such an insanely improbable event occurred?  Or even if it did - the claim was made but has anyone else verified it?

      1. Valeant profile image87
        Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        It's interesting to look at the timeline in Pennsylvania to see if the 600,000 to 3,200 claim even makes sense:

        Tuesday, Nov. 3, just before midnight Trump holds a 550,000 vote lead.

        Wednesday, Nov. 4, 7am Trump's lead improved to 700,000.

        Wednesday, Nov. 4, 10am Trump's lead drops to 590,000.

        Wednesday, Nov. 4, 2:35pm, More than 1 million mail-in ballots remain to be counted.  Statewide, Biden has been taking 78% of them.

        By the end of Wednesday, as mail-in ballots have been counted, Trump's lead has decreased to 196,000.

        Thursday, Nov. 5, 7am, Trump's lead decreases to 164,000 after overnight counting.

        Thursday, Nov. 5, afternoon mail-in counts from Philly drop Trump's lead to 102,000 by the afternoon.

        Thursday, Nov. 5, Trump's lead drops to just 24,000 before midnight.

        Friday, Nov. 6, Trump's lead is down to 18,229.

        Friday, Nov. 6, Biden takes the lead by 9am of 5,600 votes.

        By 1:30pm, his lead grows to 13,000.

        Now, if you can find somewhere in that timeline that there was a nearly 600,000 vote change for Biden, that might lend some validity to the claims.

        https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/ … vaporated/

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          But where is the problem in doing a forensic analysis of it?  Where is the problem in investigating if the claim is true?  Your timeline seems to indicate that it is only possible time period it could have happened is between Wed. morning and Friday afternoon, directly contradicting the claim, so who is right?  Your timeline or the claim of 600,000 unchallenged ballots in a few hours? 

          Did we see 600,00 ballots come in for Biden, immediately followed by 600,000 for Trump (unmentioned by the Trump team)?  If so, just who is separating them out, and why?  Were votes being "counted" locally but not passed to a mainframe somewhere?  Was communication just lacking for a few hours?

          What's the problem with digging into this?

          1. Valeant profile image87
            Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            The 'expert' witness claimed the vote surge happened on Tuesday, Nov. 3rd in the evening. Yet, Trump increased his lead overnight by 110,000 votes.  Numerically, it makes no sense. 

            How about the 'expert' shows us the batch he analyzed to garner his conclusion.

            Because that expert is Phil Waldron and he also testified in Michigan where his claims were easily debunked.
            https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ … 824210001/

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              That's what I said!  Look into it!  Don't write it off because you got the results you like - find it.  If it's there then those that made the claim can point out the exact time and the exact "batch" of ballots that produced the result.  Look at them instead of writing it off as something that "obviously" did not occur.

              Trump increased his lead by 100,000 votes - should it have been 600,000?  How can you tell if you don't look? 

              And we're still left with why you won't support looking.

              Not sure what your link about Michigan has to do with the reported problem in Pennsylvania.

              1. Valeant profile image87
                Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Because you clearly missed how the same expert used in Pennsylvania's claims, made the same claims in Michigan that election officials debunked.  Which was the point of that link.  So, in summary, Mike is posting links and claims that have been clearly debunked, two months after an election and nearly two weeks after Biden was already sworn in.  Clearly, he's stuck in conspiracy theoryland, as are many Trump supporters.

          2. Readmikenow profile image94
            Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I think one of the most important stories is how using mail-in ballots that are NOT post marked and counted three days after an election have been found illegal by a judge.  This is HUGE.  Think of the tens of thousands of ballots that should have been disqualified in Virginia, Pennsylvania as well as Michigan.  It IS a game changer...it, combined with the other evidence, are good grounds for a federal investigation. 

            We can't change Biden's fraudulent election, but we must work toward preventing another one from happening in the future.

            1. Valeant profile image87
              Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Ten of thousands?  The office of the Attorney General noted that it wouldn't be many at all.  Plus, tens of thousands still doesn't swing Virginia or Michigan.  And one judge's ruling can be appealed to the state's Supreme Court.

              Plus, Mike thinks this such a big deal...but this decision was made on October 28th.  A week before the election.  So those ballots that were affected in Virginia were not counted.  Not sure why he thinks that equates to fraud...
              https://vpm.org/news/articles/17626/vir … in-ballots

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

    It is not the job of the government to "change behavior (yikes!) with tax regulations."

    Since when is it okay for the government to have this kind of influence?
    Since When?
    Since you care more about the big picture of Utopia than the individual's right to guide his own free will toward his own happiness, (within the boundaries of good-will toward others.)

  9. Valeant profile image87
    Valeantposted 11 months ago

    Equal taxation would be nice.  But applying those same rules to American companies would also be nice since they charge higher prices here in America for the same goods and services than they do in other parts of the world.  If they can do it, why should those that benefit from those unfair practices be given the same treatment?

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      There is some justification for those higher prices.  The cost doesn't end with production and labor and other expenses must be factored in.  Cost of advertising as well.  And of course competition plays a part, too - if competition for sales is high then prices drop.

      But that isn't to say that some of our patent laws don't play a part as well, giving a company an opportunity for higher prices that they don't have in other countries.

      1. Valeant profile image87
        Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Arguing to argue.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          If you say so - it's pretty easy to demonize or find wrongdoing when important parts of the story are left out.  George Washington was an evil, evil child; we know this because he chopped down the cherry tree!

  10. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

    IF there is nothing to hide why is this happening?

    "Maricopa County board refuses to turn over election equipment for Arizona Senate audit

    Maricopa County refuses to turn over elections equipment and ballots from the November general election to the Arizona Senate, escalating a fight between the dueling government bodies over election integrity oversight.

    The Board of Supervisors, which announced its audit of the county's election machines on Jan. 27, missed a Tuesday noon deadline to comply with a Senate subpoena following a meeting with the board's attorneys, a local Fox affiliate reported.

    Three days after Maricopa announced its audit, the Senate initiated its own parallel audit of elections equipment and materials, claiming the board's audit does not meet the Senate's request for a "deep forensic audit." The Senate audit began on Tuesday with the issuance of the subpoena.

    Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Warren Petersen said there could be "serious legal consequences" if the board does not comply. Petersen then followed through on the threat, announcing on Twitter that the Senate would draft a contempt resolution against the board."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news … RnWm48yXJY

  11. Valeant profile image87
    Valeantposted 11 months ago

    Providing voter information to partisan hacks like the Arizona GOP Senate, the same people who censured Cindy McCain and Governor Ducey, seems like it's not in the best interest of voters.

    Instead, they have contracted two companies that are certified by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.  Of course, this will simply allow Trump cult members to claim deep state, since they need a new conspiracy.

    The two companies will do the following to ensure that the county's voting system worked properly in the general election, Jarrett told the supervisors on Wednesday:

    Analyze its hacking vulnerability.
    Verify that no malicious malware was installed.
    Test that tabulators were not sending or receiving information over the internet.
    Confirm that no vote switching occurred.
    Verify state and county procurement regulations were followed when leasing the equipment from Dominion Voting Systems.

    The supervisors were going to invite lawmakers to oversee the process and ask them for their input. He said the supervisors understand that part of the Senate's interest is to monitor the audit in order to see which changes are needed to election law.

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/po … 269186001/

    So, as always, your partisan Washington Times article leaves a lot out.

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      'Providing voter information to partisan hacks like the Arizona GOP Senate, the same people who censured Cindy McCain and Governor Ducey, seems like it's not in the best interest of voters.'

      They have been voted into the state senate by the "VOTERS."  So, it is obvious they are following the dictates of their constituents. 

      Again, it is obvious they are afraid of something.  Democrats don't get to choose which laws they follow.  The state Senate of Arizona is a governing body.  I hope that serious censure comes their way.  Also, maybe a loss of state funding should be in order.

      It is very suspicious and they are acting like guilty criminals.

      1. Valeant profile image87
        Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Considering a minority of people in the state voted for Trump, there is an equal argument that they are denying the dictates of their constituents by not accepting the results.

        Considering that no law exists to dictate what the Senate is doing in this case, it appears that they are the ones trying to do something that no law covers.  They would be the ones not following the law in this case as Senate leader Karen Fann noted back in November:

        'Fann acknowledged it is the Legislature that crafted the election laws, including the security features. And it was never thought necessary to require the kind of outside audit that she now wants.'

        So, what's even more suspicious is that the GOP Senate members are trying to do something outside the law to swing the election that had multiple safeguards in place such as audits (a law that requires that 2% of the ballots from select precincts be counted by hand to ensure the tally matches what the machine has spit out), certification of the machines before the election (by the US Election Assistance Commission) and tests on the machines both before and after to ensure they work and worked properly.

        1. Readmikenow profile image94
          Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          "Considering a minority of people in the state voted for Trump"

          You might want to check your stats.  Biden won Arizona by .4 percent.  Less than a percent is not a minority of people. 

          https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/results/state/arizona

          "Considering that no law exists to dictate what the Senate is doing in this case, it appears that they are the ones trying to do something that no law covers."

          Hate to bring this up to you but according to the US Constitutions it is the legislatures of each state that is responsible for voting and following the laws.  So, the Arizona state senate has jurisdiction over every county in the state when it comes to elections 

          Maricopa county is only one county in Arizona.  A state that has 15 counties.

          I still wonder why they are defying the US Constitution and their own state constitution.

          The behavior of the commissioners in Maricopa county is very suspicions to say the least.  If the states gets those voting machines and prove they were tampered with, someone will likely go to jail.

          Could the .4 percent be negated by corrupt voting machines?  The state senate of Arizona wants to know,

          1. Valeant profile image87
            Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Crack a book, Mike.
            Majority - noun, the greater number
            Minority - noun, the smaller number

            You're absolutely right.  The U.S. Constitution does state that following the laws is important.  So, by law, if the Senate wants an audit, they need to pass a law stating that they want to include that as part of verifying the votes.  Currently, one does not exist and the GOP Senators are trying to do something without a law to condone it, circumventing the rest of the Senate.

            1. Readmikenow profile image94
              Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              You need to brush up a bit on the Arizona state Constitution and laws. 

              If the board members refuse the Senate's request,  they can be found in contempt.  The state senate has the authority given to them by the state Constitution of Arizona.  Those in charge could be put in jail.

              "Republicans who control the Arizona Senate are moving ahead with their threat to pass a contempt resolution finding Maricopa County has failed to comply with a subpoena demanding access to elections equipment and ballots cast in the November election...If the resolution passes, board members could be jailed for failing to comply."

              https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states … n-election

              What are they hiding?  The state Senate has authority over ALL the counties in the state.  That is how it works.

              1. Valeant profile image87
                Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                The GOP Senate seems to have made a subpoena that violates their own state law.  In essence, I could argue that they are violating their oaths to the Arizona State Constitution and should be thrown out of office.

                'There is an explicit state law that requires ballots to be locked up after an election and only released pursuant to a court order. Images of the ballots are afforded the same protection.  Senate Republican leadership has obtained no such court order. So, the leadership is demanding that the county commit an illegal act.'

                You claim they, and they being composed of four Republicans and one Democrat by the way, are hiding something, when the reality is that they are following the law.

                The additional tests conducted by the board are entirely transparent and public. The firms that are conducting them are known and approved by the federal government for such purposes, so certification of the machines has not been put at risk. Legislators and media can watch the tests taking place.

                The board decided to do so in hopes of tamping down allegations of irregularities still circulating among Trumpeteers. That’s never going to happen. Further tests and audits simply feed the delusion, suggesting that there might still be something to find, or something that is being hidden.

                The only path forward is for everyone else to move on and leave the Trumpeteers to their delusions.

                https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion … 390858001/

                1. Readmikenow profile image94
                  Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  They are asking to see the voting machines, not the ballots.  Big difference.

                  There is no Arizona state law covering the examination of voting machines.  The Senate is well within their prevue to order an examination of the voting machines.  Maricopa County does not have the authority to say no.

                  I have no idea why this is not a huge national news story.

                  1. Valeant profile image87
                    Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Actually, they did ask to see the mail-in ballots as part of their subpoena.  Look it up.  Illegal.

                    And machine verification is talked about on page 249...
                    https://azsos.gov/sites/default/files/2 … PROVED.pdf

                2. Readmikenow profile image94
                  Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  What you provided is an opinion piece.  There are those who would disagree with those opinions.  I'm with the group who believes Maricopa County doesn't have the authority to refuse the state Senate.  It is the STATE that has the responsibility for vote certification and not the county.  Remember, there are 14 other counties in Arizona with no such problems.

                  1. Valeant profile image87
                    Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    I linked to an opinion piece that noted the specific Arizona Law that a court order is needed to get ballots released.  A court order the GOP Senate never asked for.  Good job trying to ignore the point I made, but here is the same law quoted on the passed election procedures of Arizona. 

                    Page 262 of 544 at the bottom, just as the opinion piece noted:
                    https://azsos.gov/sites/default/files/2 … PROVED.pdf

  12. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

    We want to help ourselves. As adults we don't want to have to ask others for help.
     
    Therefore, the time to help humans become independent, robust and intelligent is in the first six years of life.

    We must have better education for our youth; an education only parents can manage and delegate, if not provide ...

    somehow.

    And that word, "somehow", isolates the difficulty.

  13. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

    PS As someone who had a great time during the 60s and 70s, when we experienced freedom and independence, I advise: keep control over your lives.

    Don't give it to the government.

  14. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

    As I said before, this isn't going to go away.

    "Top Democrat Elections Attorney Marc Elias Agrees With Republicans that Voting Machines Are Unreliable and Invalid

    Elias was also responsible for funneling money from Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to the Fusion GPS opposition research firm, which produced the fraudulent “Russia dossier.” Marc Elias worked with Stacey Abrams in Georgia to ensure Democrats win the election using absentee ballots.

    In a legal filing on behalf of Brindisi, Marc Elias challenged the faulty voting machines for the Democrat lawmaker’s loss.
    Elias wrote:

    In this case, there is reason to believe that voting tabulation machines misread hundreds if not thousands of valid votes as undervotes, (supra at 4), and that these tabulation machine errors disproportionately affected Brindisi, (id.). In addition, Oswego County admitted in a sworn statement to this Court that its tabulation machines were not tested and calibrated in the days leading up to the November 3, 2020 General Election as required by state law and necessary to ensure that the counts generated by tabulation machines are accurate."

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/0 … e-invalid/

    1. Valeant profile image87
      Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I'm in Oswego County...this does not surprise me.  So, it wasn't the machine in that case, but the election officials that did not follow state law in testing and calibrating them.

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        No, it is about charges of the voting machine giving incorrect tabulations. 

        "In a legal filing on behalf of Brindisi, Marc Elias challenged the faulty voting machines for the Democrat lawmaker’s loss."

        Oh, this sounds familiar.  Like I said, it is coming back around to the Democrats and they don't like it either.

        1. Valeant profile image87
          Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          This is like the Antrim, Michigan case where the election officials didn't calibrate the machines and Biden was deemed the winner at first.  Once they figured out what they did wrong, they fixed their mistake and the results matched the actual ballots.

  15. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

    It's funny.  When the Democrats have trouble with voting machines they're "shocked" when a judge won't hear their case.  Oh, it IS shocking when hypocrisy and double standards come back around.

    "New York Democrat Anthony Brindisi, the incumbent for New York's 22nd congressional district, said Friday that he is "shocked" a New York judge rejected his campaign's claims that voting machine irregularities resulted in his loss to Republican Claudia Tenney.

    Not only did DelConte criticize local boards of election for what he called "systemic violations of state and federal election law," but he rejected claims that voter fraud tampered the outcome of the contested election, according to Syracuse.com.

    From Syracuse.com:

    The judge also took the opportunity to dispel the rumors that have swirled around the legal proceedings regarding the integrity of the election. While there were errors, he writes, there was no fraud. No dead people voted. There were no discrepancies in voting machines, he said.

    "Every single valid vote that was cast in New York's 22nd Congressional District has been accounted for, and counted," he wrote.
    Lawyers for Brindisi had argued in a court filing this week that voting tabulation errors had marred the election."

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/new-york- … ction-loss

  16. Valeant profile image87
    Valeantposted 11 months ago

    The difference here is that the court found that state and federal law was violated.  Not one court for Trump ruled that that had happened.

    In his decision, DelConte wrote, “Despite the SEVERITY of the transgressions that have been uncovered in this proceeding, including multiple violations of state and federal Election Law, this Court has no authority to grant any other relief…”

    He basically argues, despite the blatant errors on the part of some voters, some boards of election offices, and for some, blatant election injustices, the court doesn’t have the power to fix the problems.

    The hand count request was prompted by discrepancies between the manual canvass of ballots and the numbers on ballots run through county boards of elections voting machines.
    While the argument revolved mostly around subsequent canvassing of ballots in Oneida County after error correction, Brindisi’s attorneys argued discrepancies also were in Oswego, Madison, Chenango and Herkimer counties. 

    The Oneida County changes resulted in a significant change in the tallies.

    Also at issue:
    128 ballots from voters who dropped ballots off at the wrong polling place
    20 ballots cast in the wrong county, many by college students
    85 ballots, cast by people who were deemed “purged voters”

    1. Readmikenow profile image94
      Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Hey, like the judge said "there were errors, he writes, there was no fraud"

      Sounds familiar.  It is coming around to the Democrats now.

      Oh, not one Court heard the evidence in the 2020 presidential election lawsuits.  Most of the lawsuits were either dismissed or denied.  Especially the ones with the strongest evidence.

      1. Valeant profile image87
        Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        'Oh, not one Court heard the evidence in the 2020 presidential election lawsuits.'

        That's a huge lie.

        And like I noted, the judge confirmed that elections officials violated state and federal law in this case.  Not fraud, but errors and 'injustices' which clearly could have affected the result.  This is definitely about a confirmed case where elections officials are in fault as confirmed by actual evidence that proved it.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          If a company repossesses your car, or empties your bank account or evicts you from your home as a result of an "error" in their not following the law I can't see a non-political court allowing it to simply be set aside without correction.

          Yet that is exactly what has happened in these "errors" and "injustices" which states pulled off in our election.

  17. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago
  18. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

    I don't know why this isn't in the national news.  It is a huge story.  One, the main stream media will try to ignore.

    "A Michigan judge has released the bombshell report on the audit of Dominion Voting Systems, revealing that the machines and their software were “designed” to “create systemic fraud.”

    The report covers the forensic audit of Dominion’s machines in Michigan’s Antrim County — which received national attention after it was discovered that 6,000 votes for President Donald Trump were “flipped” to Democrat Joe Biden due to an “error.”

    13th Circuit Court Judge Kevin Elsenheimer ordered the report’s protective order to be lifted on Monday night, allowing the details of the audit to be unsealed and released to the public.

    The data firm that conducted the forensic audit of Dominion Voting Systems determined that the machines and software in Michigan showed that they were designed to create fraud and influence election results, the report reveals.

    “We conclude that the Dominion Voting System is intentionally and purposefully designed with inherent errors to create systemic fraud and influence election results,” Russell Ramsland Jr., co-founder of Allied Security Operations Group, said in a preliminary report."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20210107040 … mic-fraud/

    1. Valeant profile image87
      Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      That audit has been widely debunked.

      So, Antrim changed their ballots just before the election, then forgot to update the machine, leading to human error.  Upon fixing their mistake, results were easily fixed.

      https://www.factcheck.org/2020/12/audit … cy-theory/

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        They are two different audits.  Your story is from December 18, almost a month ago.  The story about the judge's audit is from one week ago.

        1. Valeant profile image87
          Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Read the link...Ramsland is the author in your post as well as from the link I posted.  Same debunked audit.

          1. Readmikenow profile image94
            Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I think the Factcheck.org article raised more questions than it answers. 

            'Several experts on voting systems also told us the report betrayed a misunderstanding of election technology and process, and that it jumped to conclusions to proclaim fraud and make legal judgments.'

            Who are these experts and what is their background that makes them “experts.”

            “But election officials soon found the suspicious results were the result of a human error — and that Trump was actually leading in the vote count. Dominion Voting Systems has also said the “issue with election results reporting in Antrim County was due to user-error.”
            The matter came down to the fact that the county clerk “accidentally did not update the software used to collect voting machine data,” the Michigan Department of State, which oversees the state’s elections, said in a Nov. 6 statement.”

            Who is this clerk and why has nobody spoken with her?  If this voting machine data that was not updated, can't this be determined with an audit of the machines?  It is convenient for human error and a lowly clerk to be responsible.  If this happened with one machine, couldn't it also have happened with others?

            “The Ramsland report said it didn’t accept the explanation for the error, writing: “We disagree and conclude that the vote flip occurred because of machine error built into the voting software designed to create error.”
            In a rebuttal to the report he submitted to Michigan and federal legislators, Ryan Macias, former acting director of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s Voting System Testing and Certification Program, noted that the ballot definition files (used in the tabulator cards) “are not part of the certified voting system software, are unique to every election, and are regularly updated in advance of the election.”

            A Michigan federal legislator?  Seems pretty biased to me.  This situation needs an independent review.

            So, the entire article makes it look more like the Michigan government is trying to hide something rather than be open about the situation.  It all seems rather suspicious.

            Again, I suggest a full federal investigation with open access to ALL of the voting machines by independent forensic auditors.  It just seems like something is being hidden for some reason.

            1. Valeant profile image87
              Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              People did speak to the clerk, if you bothered to do a little extra research and get out of your media bubble:

              A review by the clerk resulted in a change that showed Trump won the county. Antrim County Clerk Sheryl Guy indicated she failed to properly update memory cards that led to tabulation errors. Her office quickly updated the results, showing Trump won.

              The office of Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson oversaw a hand recount of the ballots in Antrim, which resulted in a net gain of 12 votes for Trump and affirmed he won the county.

              So once the clerk error was fixed, and a hand recount was done, results were confirmed with very little difference between machines and paper ballots.

              Now, if you can explain how that hand recount of ballots indicates fraud when the machines are properly used, then you would have a case.

              As to the experts, here is one who cleared things up:
              Dominion CEO John Poulos recently testified under oath at a Michigan Senate hearing. He denied allegations, including those involving Antrim County, walking lawmakers through explanations as to why the accusations were wrong.

              Senate Oversight Committee Chairman Ed McBroom, R-Vulcan, said after the hearing that Poulos "dispelled all manner of rumors about the origins, connections, and dealings of Dominion Voting Systems."

  19. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

    Its no wonder AG Bill Barr left the scene.

    Its enough to drive you absolutely M A D.

  20. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago

    Why is Dominion not suing Mike Lindell?

    Is it because they don't want to be found out?????

    Yes.

  21. Kathryn L Hill profile image76
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 months ago
  22. profile image0
    ValKarasposted 11 months ago

    It's another cherry-picking theme based on one's political preference. First, because the pandemic "making cheating possible" doesn't automatically mean that it did happen on a large scale as it's being suspected.
    Second, there is not much logic, let alone proof, that "all 61 judges refused to look into an evidence" which even Rudy Giuliani failed to present. Let's remember that some of those judges had been installed by Trump.
    And maybe most important of everything -- third, if there really had been "extra votes", where is logic denying a possibility that they were not Trump's votes? Because, logically, a "playground for cheating" allowed BOTH sides to cheat on votes. Namely, how do we know that Trump didn't lose by even bigger difference?
    Beyond suspecting, what a lay person can "know" what those directly involved failed to make public enough to prevent judges from "ignoring" the evidence?
    All we kept hearing were repeated phrases of suspicion.
    And again, I am simply being logical here, totally neutral. Do I dislike Trump? I do dislike that he separated those parents from kids -- which was inhuman. His constant contradicting himself and lying on videos doesn't bother me, because ALL politicians are doing it all the time.

  23. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

    How about the voting machines being connected to the internet?  That is cause for major fraud concern and it DID happen.

    This is a huge problem.  Hackers around the world could get into them.


    Here is an NBC news article about it BEFORE the election.

    “A team of election security experts used a “Google for servers” to challenge claims that voting machines do not connect to the internet and found some did.”

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi … g-n1112436

    A witness at a Senate hearing states voting machines WERE connected to the internet.

    “Fired Director of Cyber Security Chris Krebs told the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on Wednesday that some Dominion Voting Machines were connected to the internet.”

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/1 … -internet/

    1. Valeant profile image87
      Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Some states still prefer voting machines with modems to relay results to their county election offices.

      In all, the number of its election machines with wireless modems is 14,420 across 11 states, including Florida, Rhode Island, Georgia and Wisconsin.

      Now, that being said, the recount in Georgia, one where they counted the actual paper ballots yielded the following results:
      Here's how the final counts of Biden's win from the three recounts ended:

      First count (by machine, certified by counties Nov. 13): 13,558
      Second count (after hand audit, certified by Secretary of State Nov. 20): 12,284
      Final count (after official recount, also by machine, certified Dec. 7): 11,779

      https://www.11alive.com/article/news/po … f18f318645

      So while you argue that hackers could have gotten in, the proof when the machine tallies compared to the paper ballots, which all of the voting machine aside from a few non-battleground states have, do not back your claims in the slightest.  How do you dismiss the paper ballots?  How did the hackers change the writing on the actual ballots that verified the machine tallies?

      In Wisconsin, Trump paid for a hand recount in Milwaukee, Biden actually gained votes there.
      https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-p … in-2020-11

      Antrim, Michigan hand recount versus machine totals:
      https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-1 … --,00.html

      Your claims just do not match the recounts and audits.  Saying there is a chance of fraud is fine.  Saying fraud actually occurred requires proof.  It's like me saying that you own a gun and could murder someone, then making a leap that you have murdered someone despite not having a body and all the ammunition your ever purchased is accounted for.  This is what you're trying to convince people of.

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Biden won Georgia by .24 percent of the vote.  There were groups that found illegal voting.  If those votes were deducted, President Donald Trump would be the winner. 

        "One of many volunteer groups, a Georgia-based voter data analytics firm says it has found that about 40,000 illegal votes were cast in Georgia in the November 3 general election.  Mark Davis, President of Data Productions, Inc. and considered an expert in five court cases concerning election disputes found 40,239 people who moved from one county to another more than 30 days before the election and voted in their old county, which is illegal according to Georgia law.  Those 40,239 people who voted failed to register their new address in time to vote in their new county, and according to the law they cannot vote in either county until they do."

        40,239 illegal votes are more than triple the size of the current margins in the Presidential race as Joe Biden is listed as being approximately 12,000 votes ahead of President Donald Trump."

        https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/1 … mp-column/

        "Here is an ongoing lawsuit in Michigan.  Hundreds of thousand of illegal votes were counted.

        Michigan officials counted another 35,109 ballots that were not associated with any address. This statistic is nothing short of mindboggling. According to Northon, voters “were sent an absentee ballot, but there’s no address on file. They voted. That violates the law.”

        Michigan officials also counted 13,248 ballots cast by individuals who were registered to vote in another state. They also counted 317 ballots from people who voted more than once and 259 ballots from voters who listed only an email address instead of a physical address. Finally, election officials mailed out at least 74,000 absentee ballots that voters requested online."

        https://pjmedia.com/election/tyler-o-ne … s-n1181826

        And then there is Wisconsin.

        "Election Changes in Wisconsin Call Into Question Tens of Thousands of Votes

        In Wisconsin, a state Joe Biden carried by just over 20,000 votes, tens of thousands of votes are being called into question due to last-minute changes made by election supervisors. Only state legislatures have the ability to change the ways elections are conducted, per the Constitution.

        Just the News reports that election supervisors in the state of Wisconsin made three substantial changes in the run-up to the election that could potentially impact the fate of tens of thousands of votes."

        https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonst … n-n2579709

        The evidence of voter fraud is massive. 

        So, answer the question of why it is necessary for a mail in ballot to not have a post mark and be counted three days AFTER the election?  How does this make sense, unless it is part of an organized effort to commit election fraud.

        1. Valeant profile image87
          Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          So instead of answering a simple question of how paper ballots match machine tallies, you continue posting your garbage?

          I could debunk all of that crap just as easily as I did the last stuff, but it sounds like you just want to share all the delusional rabbit holes you've fallen down without actually taking the time to acknowledge the reality that I just laid out for you.

          But just for the fun, here is a Georgia illegal vote conspiracy debunked:  https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 … l-for-him/

          1. Readmikenow profile image94
            Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            The main question the left avoids and can't answer.  Your Mother Jones article speaks about Matt Braynard, a onetime Trump campaign operative and my article is about the findings of a Georgia-based voter data analytics firm called Data Productions.  You've debunked NOTHING. 

            So, answer the question of why it is necessary for a mail in ballot to not have a post mark and be counted three days AFTER the election?  How does this make sense, unless it is part of an organized effort to commit election fraud?  Can you answer it?

            1. Valeant profile image87
              Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              So providing accurate data pertaining to the miniscule difference in machine counts and hand recounts that debunks your ridiculous arguments about voting machines is opinion?  Only in your own mind. 

              22 States allow mail-in ballots to be received after the election, with the amount of days varying between three and twenty days.  Are 22 states, including seven who went red, organizing to commit election fraud? 

              Like I've noted, in Virginia, the courts enjoined the Virginia Board of Elections on October 28th to not count ballots without a postmark. 

              And other states have specific rules about how they treat ballots without postmarks:

              The state of Pennsylvania splits the mail-in ballots they receive into three groups, according to state guidance to local election officials:
              -Ballots postmarked correctly on or before Nov. 3 which are counted,
              -Ballots without a postmark (or with an illegible postmark) which are presumed to have been mailed prior to Nov. 3 which are counted, and
              -Ballots that were not postmarked and are not assumed to have been sent before Nov. 3 which are not counted.

              or Maryland:
              Maryland Election officials say they check the postmark on each ballot to make sure it was mailed before the Nov. 3 deadline. If a ballot's return envelope has no postmark, "the date the voter signed the oath is used to determine if it was timely mailed; if the date is on or before Nov. 3, it is considered timely mailed."

              But as the Constitution says, each state can determine their own rules pertaining to mail-in ballots.  Just because Virginia ruled a certain way does not mean it applies to any other state in the country.

              And more specifically to your question, and pertaining to this election, perhaps states felt the need to be more flexible with mail-in ballots due to the increased volume due to a pandemic.  It could have also had something to do with Trump and DeJoy making changes to the USPS that was going to have an affect on citizens exercising their Constitutional rights.  Either is a valid answer to your question.

              As to the Georgia example, this lends credence to the type of idiots the Trump campaign was putting forth with analytics claims.  They were not based in any reality and when scrutinized with actual voters, they got laughed out of court.  Until your Data Analytics group provides the names to verify like Giuliani's guy did, not sure how serious the claim should be taken since the first claims were so easily debunked.

            2. GA Anderson profile image88
              GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              "So, answer the question of why it is necessary for a mail-in ballot to not have a post mark and be counted three days AFTER the election? "

              One explanation offered by a Post Office spokesman said that some/many(?) ballots were mailed with preprinted return postage, (as we have all seen on business mailings), and that preprinted postage envelopes are not typically postmarked, (again, as we have all seen on business mailings).

              It was further explained that because the item in question was a ballot, and that mail-in ballots were the hot topic of the election, some USPS facilities did make an effort to postmark them. but this was not a system-wide effort. So some of the preprinted postage ballots were postmarked and some weren't.

              That sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. Or, do you think it was just a CYA explanation to hide fraud?

              GA

              1. Readmikenow profile image94
                Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Again, tell me what safeguards were put in place to avoid voter fraud taking place.  I wonder why do it mail in balloting if there are no such safeguards in place?  Was it an oversight...or done on purpose?

                1. Valeant profile image87
                  Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  You do know there is signature matching on mail-in ballots, right?

                  https://theconversation.com/6-ways-mail … aud-145666

                  1. Readmikenow profile image94
                    Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Ah, but has it been followed?  What safeguard are in place to make certain the signatures are matched?  I think this is not something too closely followed.

                    'WATCH: Stacey Abrams Brags About Lack of 'Exact' Signature Matching in Georgia'


                    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavl … a-n2582578

          2. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            That's an interesting idea: one person says fraud, another says no fraud...and therefore there was no fraud and the original claim is false.  Not the second, "debunking" the first; the first is false because the second claims a tiny portion is in error.

            If that is good, sound reasoning, I'm Santa Claus.  All you've done is support the idea that the claims of fraud have NOT been investigated; that any single error out of 40,000 instances is being used to invalidate the entire thing.

            1. Valeant profile image87
              Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Hi, Santa!

              Just as the 40,000 instances were not properly investigated before being lumped into a fraud claim.  The claim was 40,000 - clearly that claim was false.

              And if you saw a tiny portion after reading that article, you could be the next enrollee at Trump University!

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Well, I saw a sample of 10 votes, and another that did not give a total value but found 2 (supposedly) wrong ones - maybe even 15 or 20 sample size?

                Ya think that's a reasonable sample size to predict 40,000?

                1. Valeant profile image87
                  Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Well Santa, first off, you're talking about two separate cases again.  In the article I cited, the claim was 22,000, not 40,000.  The 40,000 is Mike's Data Analytics Group.

                  I guess you missed how they included whole apartment complexes of people who use PO boxes for mail.  That was in the article, but I guess you skipped over that part while out feeding the reindeer.  That was a quick check of local places to realize that the numbers used were based on incorrect information.

  24. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

    Remember...Biden won the state by less than a percent of the vote.

    “Georgia Election Board Refers 35 Voter Fraud Cases for Prosecution
    FEB 11, 2021

    “Authorities said a group called the New Georgia Project submitted 1,268 voter registration applications after a deadline, causing voters for be disenfranchised in a 2019 special election.

    Authorities are also accusing Floyd Jones and the Fayette County Board of Elections and Voter Registration, where he was director at the time, of improperly handling four memory cards registering 2,760 votes in the Nov. 3, 2020 general election. The board didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.”

    https://yournews.com/2021/02/11/2025154 … osecution/

  25. Readmikenow profile image94
    Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

    Nobody on the left can answer the question as to why laws were passed to have mail in ballots with no post mark be counted three days after an election.  I have an answer, it was designed for voter fraud.  It enabled the democrats to know where Biden stood on election night and then produce enough fraudulent mail in ballot with no time stamps to put him ahead in the voting.  I can't think of another reason.  Some states went against the US Constitution and their own state constitution to make this happen.  It's called fraud.

    1. Valeant profile image87
      Valeantposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I've answered it a few times, you just don't seem to want to accept simple reasoning.

      Changes to USPS just prior to the election by a Trump appointee caused states to worry about the reliability of their service.  One could make the case that Trump's direct attack on the USPS forced the changes to allow a free and fair election.

      Add to that the increased volume expected because the pandemic and states felt the need to be more flexible in how mail-in ballots were handled.  A third reason was that other states already had rules in place on how they handle mail-in ballots without a postmark, and chose to mirror those laws.

      And I've already noted that a judge enjoined the Virginia Board of Elections on October 28th not to count ballots with no postmarks that arrived after election day.  So if that's the case you're talking about, it had no bearing on the 2020 election.

      1. Readmikenow profile image94
        Readmikenowposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        That is a very PR driven explanation.

        Now...tell me what safeguards were put in to avoid fraud?  I wonder if you or anyone else is aware of ANY safeguards put in place to avoid fraud. 

        It's like saying "We put a table filled with money outside the bank because the vault was full.  Nobody should steal the money because that is against the law"

        Then be shocked and horrified because people steal the money on the table outside the bank.

 
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