Cages for illegal aliens?!?!

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   wildernessposted 3 years ago

   My nightly news reports that children illegally crossing the border are again being supported and cared for...in the cages Obama built, Trump was nearly hung in effigy for using and Biden is again using.
   
   Could it be (whisper it quietly) a double standard is in effect here?  Is the duplicity of Democrats again on display for all to see?
   
   But beyond that it seems that Biden is finding that the illegal alien problem is a bit more thorny than he thought.  What can we expect when the caravans show up on our doorstop?  What will he do with the children...children that Mexico is now refusing to take back into Mexico even as they are being used purely as a tool to get into our country.

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      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      What I have been able to ascertain is that in Jan 7,000 unaccompanied children crossed the border. They were processing these children and putting them in centers that were reopened to house these children until they could find homes for them to be released to. The caravan will be processed and released to wait for their hearing. Children will not be separated from adults they arrive with.  Biden has reverted back to Obama's catch and release.
      
      I have found nothing on what will be done with the 500 children that they can not locate their parents. 
      
      I also started a thread on the subject. I posted a couple of links I used as resources that covers my above comment.
      https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/351 … g-in-cages

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      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      IMO it has become much more "thorny" at this point. In Jan 2021 border patrol apprehended 7,000 unaccompanied children that needed to be housed... Add that to the other 500 children that the Government must try to find parents we now have 7,000 more that's parents will need to be found. At this point, we have 7,500 children being housed in the same properties used by Obama, and Trump. It would seem at this point the Government will need to build more facilities due to the large influx of migrant children that we can't utilize catch and release.   Can't imagine in the next months will bring. Trump's program for a migrant to wait for their hearings in Mexico seemed like a good plan. Realistically at this point, the fact is we have now 7,500 children without parents being housed in the same facilities, that will be left in a form of limbo until their parents can be found or they are placed in foster homes while the Government tries to find their parents. The exact same thing that was being done under Trump. What I have read is the Trump administration followed the same path as Biden will now follow.
      
      Children begin at Customs and Border Protection facilities, are transferred to longer-term shelters and are supposed to eventually be placed with families or sponsors. The protection facilities are the facilities one will see with chainlink fences, and children sleeping with silver brackets. They are quickly taken to long-term facilities to be housed until sponsors can be found. I have added a picture of the long-term facilities bunk room. I see another user has posted the short-term protection facilities.
      
      It would seem the task of finding sponsors would be where the problem occurs. If sponsors are not found the children are left in limbo. 
      
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/national … story.html
      
      
      
      
      https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s … amid-surge

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      tsmogposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      From what I have read Biden is being criticized for the reopening of the Carrizo Springs, TX facility, which has been closed since 2019. There are no cages there and never has been. Cages were used at other facilities like McAllen TX made famous by an AP photo expose. That was operated by US Customs and Border Protection.
      
      McAllen TX facility
      
      At Corrizo Springs they have dormitories or pods with bunk beds safely spaced, medical facilities, and a central dining hall. The goal is to house 700 there. It is operated by Health and Human Services.
      
      NPR Fact Check Biden's Opening of Carrizo, TX
      
      AP News announcement of opening the facility
      
      Fox News announcement of opening the facility

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         wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         Does the Corrizo Springs have "cages"; metal fenced areas where the children are kept?  Because the news cast showed just that.

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            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Here is a good article that gives a good description of the Carrizo Springs facility.  The long-term facilities look to be set up well to house children. They always have been, and still are. Biden is opening Carrizo due to needing the space due to COVID restrictions.
            
            I think it comes down to --- Trump stopped catch and release, he kept migrants in processing centers instead of letting them go. He separated families due to the harsher conditions that they would have been exposed to long term. Biden claims he will not separate children from parents, he will go back to catch and release. He can't catch and release children. It appears over the past few months thousands of children are coming across, most likely parents having them brought to the border in hopes they will be able to follow... Or just hoping to have their children find better lives in the US. Joe's got a real problem brewing.
            
            He has ended up with 7,000 children coming across in Jan. And needs to house them until he can find parents that are in other countries or a sponsor in the US to take responsibility for a child.  I see your point, realistically we have 7,000 children without parents that are being housed in long-term facilities. They are the same facilities that housed the children that were separated from their families due to the Trump administration not willing to house them in the harsher overcrowded facilities with adults.  It will be very interesting to see how the new administration will handle this influx of children, and most likely many more to come.
            
            https://www.washingtonpost.com/national … story.html
            
            https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/report/chil … -section-1

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            tsmogposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            The sources I consider reliable like NPR and AP say they are not going to be held in cages. Apparently they started arriving Feb 22. The are hard sided structures and use bunk beds spaced six feet apart. If more occupancy is needed they will erect soft sided structures.
            
            The facility completed construction under Trump and was used for one month only. Actually, I would give kudos to the Trump admin for its establishment and how it was operated for its purpose - a surge facility. At the following link is an article when reporters were given a tour of it in 2019. The article source is NBC.
            
            I did see what I consider unreliable sources say they would be in cages. Most were blog posts with a hard right lean. I don't put much faith in those. The Fox article I linked to at my original post and more of their articles did not comment on how they would be housed.
            
            NBC tour of Carrizo TX facility 2019 opening

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               wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               *shrug*  I caught it on CBS Nora Odonnell, complete with pictures of kids in cages - perhaps a rerun of an old photo, perhaps not. 
               
               If CBS isn't good enough, or you demand a different picture or story, then you can go somewhere else...just as you seem to have done.
               
               I WILL absolutely agree, though, that the media is not to be believed any more.  As I said, that photo they showed could easily have been from years ago - it wouldn't be the first time (or the ten thousandth) that such a tactic was used to sensationalize a story.  One has only to look back at the crucifixion of Trump for "putting kids in cages" to see that!

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                  GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Okay, I frequently declare I don't join choir room discussions, but, in this case . . . Amen brother.
                  
                  GA

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                  tsmogposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree media mostly is slanted, does not tell the whole story, and can be down right lies at times. I have to research the web for subjects that peak my curiosity. What was peaked was the OP and was Biden now using cages again as recent news.
                  
                  The information I discovered and shared does not speak to my stance on immigration and its policies. I live in San Diego, so keep an eye on it. I get a newsletter from NumbersUSA, which shares moderate, liberal, and conservative views specific to immigration. Frankly, shooting from the hip I do not at this time support much of what Biden is pushing. I did support some of Trump's and some I didn't.

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   PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago

   I had just read about this. From The Washington Post;
   
   And here’s the biggest point: Trump’s policy on children at the border wasn’t controversial merely because it resulted in children being held at the border, which is a long-standing reality and is what will happen at this facility. It was controversial because it forced children to be separated from their parents given its hard-line policy requiring that the parents be held and not released into the country (and given that children couldn’t be held with their parents). This, in effect, made for more children (often very young) that needed to be held alone — about 3,000 in total — beyond the unaccompanied minors (who are often older) who arrive.
   
   It was also controversial in large part because of some of the conditions in which many of the children were then held: often in large groups behind chain-link fences at Border Patrol stations.
   
   Whether you called those “cages” or “chain-link partitions” or anything else, though, that’s not the situation at the border facility the Biden administration is reactivating. Carrizo has many more facilities for those staying there — to the point where it costs $775 per day per child. Nor is the administration forcing these children to be separated from their parents. Whatever one thinks about how these children are handled once they’re taken into custody — and there are valid debates about both the speed and efficacy of that process — it bears little resemblance to what happened under Trump. They are not being held behind chain-link fences at a Border Patrol station because of a policy that requires them to be separated from their parents.
   
   https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … ot-hardly/
   
   Biden has been in office for a little over a month. We are watching and will expect conditions to continue to improve. COVID certainly does not make it easier.

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      GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I think, the point now, and the point that will be focused on in the near future is that Pres. Biden will face the same realities that the Trump administration faced.
      
      This is not just a political football, it is a reality of how this new administration will deal with an on-going problem. I think the criticism of the Biden administration using the same facilities that the Trump administration was crucified for using is valid. Why is Biden's use of these facilities different from Trump's use of them?
      
      However, you are right that we will all be watching. This is a thorny problem and we will see how Biden navigates it differently from Trump.
      
      My opinion is that Pres. Biden doesn't have any more options than Pres. Trump did, maybe even less because of his immigration statements. I foresee the illegal children immigrant situation being even worse under the new administration and that given the public statements of the new administration their options will be even more limited than the Trump administration's.
      
      I foresee an across-the-board 'catch and release' policy for these "children" illegal immigrants that will spread them across our nation while they wait for, an almost assured, legal status, even if it is only in that they are legally awaiting a determination.
      
      I will predict that the Biden administration will, rather than take concrete steps that would put them in the same light as Pres. Trump's efforts, end up sending these minors to any family or facility that will accept them in our nation, and they will become 2021'sversion of dreamers.
      
      After all, how could anyone turn them back, it's all about the 'children'.
      
      GA

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         wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         I agree that there will be a catch and release program; Biden does not have the political will to protect our borders OR follow the laws of the nation.  Not when it produces torrents of tears from the liberals of the nation.
         
         Just a feeling from watching that news program, but I see these "children" as being late teens; adults in the land they came from.  They are not small children, brought in by parents; the newscast specifically referenced some 360 unaccompanied children.

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         PrettyPantherposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         "I think the criticism of the Biden administration using the same facilities that the Trump administration was crucified for using is valid. Why is Biden's use of these facilities different from Trump's use of them?"
         
         Acrually, these facilities were also used by Obama, but in a far different manner than was done by the Trump administration. I won't go into great detail because I am operating under the assumption that you already know that children were not routinely separated from their parents under Obama and were not allowed to be held in these facilities for more than 48(?) hours. This is drastically different than under Trump where children were routinely held for weeks in unsanitary and abusive conditions after being unnecessarily separated from their parents.
         
         Now, as to Biden, he has already reversed Trump's inhumane policies and is working to fix yet another mess made by his predecessor. If you read the article, you know that the facilities are not being used in the same manner as they were by Trump, so your question really does baffle me.
         
         As for your prediction about future dreamers, I assume you are referring only to unaccompanied minors who crossed the border? I don't yet know what his policies will be long term, but I do believe that, before Trump, children were placed in homes rather than held in cages for an extended length of time. I really haven't looked into what eventually happened to them.  That will require more reading.

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            GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            My comment wasn't to defend Pres. Trump's use of these facilities, or to compare administration policies, it was simply an argument against the excuse-making.
            
            My dreamer's thought was about what will happen to the "children" placed with sponsors. Our government is not going to be allowed to deport children 'just back across our border', and I don't think they are going to be able to find "parents" to send them back to. So the end result will be a limbo status of residence while a solution is sought. I don't think one will be found, other than granting them dreamer-like status after a few years of residence.
            
            GA

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               PrettyPantherposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               "My comment wasn't to defend Pres. Trump's use of these facilities, or to compare administration policies, it was simply an argument against the excuse-making."
               
               You asked the question: Why is Biden's use of these facilities different from Trump's use of them?"
               
               I don't know how to answer that question without comparing the two. His use of them is qualitatively more humane and in line with their original purpose.
               
               How is pointing that out "excuse making"?  If you ask me, the excuse making occurred when Trump defenders kept saying that Obama used the cages, too, without also mentioning the important details of how they were used.

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                  wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  How is Biden's use of those same cages "qualitatively more humane"?  Does he feed them better?  Provide more blankets?  Make more doctors available?  Entertain them better - is he giving them all an Xbox to play with?
                  
                  They are locked up in a cage, just as Trump did - how is that "qualitatively more humane"?

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                     PrettyPantherposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     I guess you haven't read much about the details if you think they are qualitatively the same.

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                        wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't think they are the same: I have no idea.
                        
                        But you declare they are NOT the same...while neglecting to give any examples or specifics.  Should I assume you don't have any idea or that you wish to keep it secret?

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                           PrettyPantherposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           I already explained, and as is typical with you, you want to be ignorant of the details. Sorry, I don't feel like wasting my time on your game. Maybe you can find someone else to twist and turn with.

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                              wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                              I'll go out on a limb here and tentatively agree that they aren't separated from their parents.  But I do NOT agree that putting them in an adult detention would have been a better arrangement, nor will I agree that turning them loose to continue to violate our laws was superior. 
                              
                              So...somewhat different circumstances, but still children in cages.  Just like Trump did.  Where is the outrage over putting kids in cages?  Don't forget that the screaming began over just that: kids in cages.

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                  GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  I see that Wilderness answered before I could. But, to carry that point further, since this is such a new issue I don't think any of us know how the facility is being used, we just know that it is.
                  
                  I think that, with the exception of a probable crowding difference, it is possible this facility is being used exactly as it was before—chainlink enclosures and all.
                  
                  GA

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   Valeantposted 3 years ago

   Here's the difference...Trump had these children packed all together during a pandemic, putting their safety at risk.  Biden is temporarily reopening the facilities to provide the necessary spacing to house them safely in order to comply with Covid regulations, something the Trump Administration ignored when it came to the care of immigrants.  Got to love when the right questions a move aimed at humanity and the safe care of children.  Says a lot about who they are.

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      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I see.  We don't have a pandemic going on, so it's OK.
      
      Unfortunately for this rather unique viewpoint and explanation, we DO have a pandemic and they ARE in the exact same cage they were before. 
      
      As I said, a very different standard.  Novel excuses, but still the same thing with a different standard...because it isn't the evil Trump doing it this time.

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         Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         Not really unique as that was the justification given from the White House.   
         
         And I guess you didn't understand the point I made that the pandemic is still going on, so this provides a safer environment based on space guidelines previously being ignored by Trump that endangered the children's lives.
         
         And the last difference is that instead of keeping these kids for an average of 48 days under Trump due to added hurdles his administration put in that delayed the process, the goal will be to place them with sponsors in under 30 days.
         
         In all, this move aims to protect the children against the pandemic.

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         Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

         I was curious if any of the 500 children that the Government is unable to reunite with parents contracted COVID or if any parished. I have not found any information on the health of these children. I do feel if any parished the media would report it.

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      GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I know Covid separation is the White House's stated reason, but I seem to recall the Trump criticism was pre-pandemic, so maybe your Trump reasoning is off the mark.
      
      GA

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         Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         My criticism of Trump is based off of a date from February of 2020 where they have been violating Covid safety protocols pertaining to the numbers of children held at given facilities.

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            GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Then we were talking about different "criticisms." I was referring to the earlier pre-pandemic criticisms of "children in cages."
            
            GA

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      GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      So you think it says a lot about "who they are" and I say you are just making excuses for one administration doing something you crucified the previous administration for doing.
      
      The issue is space capacity. Whether the need was because available spacing requirements exceeded capacity or whether it is for covid spacing requirements is irrelevant. The facility is being used, again, because of spacing needs.
      
      Excusing one administration while condemning another—for the same activity. also says a lot about who "they" are.
      
      GA

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         Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         I crucified them for the number of deaths of immigrant children, which had not happened since prior to Obama being in office.  It's called humanity.  And you criticizing me for having it says as much about you, for sure.  I thought you were a better person than that, apparently, I was wrong.

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            GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Oh No! The pitiing "better person" criticism. Really Valeant? Is this when I should declare that "Wait, I really am a better person?"
            
            Sorry, but anyone that thinks I am a 'better person" than what they can deduce from my forum writings is always going to be wrong.
            
            The topic was about the apparent hypocrisy of excusing Biden for doing the same thing Pres. Trump was condemned for. And that was the thrust of my response efforts. Not whether one was a better policy than the other, or one administration more humane than the other, or even whether they were actually cages or not.
            
            On the other hand, when your "excusing" was challenged you ventured into all of those other things. And now you want to bring Pres. Obama and children's deaths into your rational. Well, have at it. I will continue to address the topic of the OP.
            
            GA

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               Valeantposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               The OP, and you for that matter, completely ignores the fact that Trump and Biden using these facilities happened without (in Trump's case) and with (in Biden's) a pandemic raging.  Just the latest example of some right-wing thrust that leaves out important context to try and skew reality.
               
               If you choose to consider the ramifications the pandemic has on crowding and viral spread, you may be able to understand the goal of protecting these children from a deadly virus.  Many see that as acting in a humane way.  If you choose to ignore some stuff, sure, you can see the two scenarios as equal.

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                  GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Damn, you just had to make me ask Google, didn't you?
                  
                  Okay, here's a Wikipedia reference.
                  
                  This is the McAllen, Texas facility that I think is the object of this discussion;
                  
                  
                  And this is a portrayal of the "children's accommodations and conditions;
                  
                  
                  *Hopefully we will soon get some pictures of how the facility is being used under Pres. Biden's policies. I would bet that the only difference will be the number of minors grouped together. I bet the chainlink separators and space blankets will still be part of the equation.
                  
                  It appears that the policy decisions that brought this facility into use started in April 2018 and ended in June 2018. If you remember, the Trump administration was crucified for this policy and the use of this facility for the detention of minors, (children), from as soon as the policy was uncovered in the summer of 2018, all the way through January of 2020 when a report came out about the government's failure in being able to even account for some of the separated minors. Almost 2 years of condemnation for policies that included the use of the McAllen facility.
                  
                  But wait, the only part of that which is relevant to this discussion is the use of Mcallen and the criticism of it—which was hot and heavy from the Democrats all the way through to July 2019 when AOC visited there and decried the "horrifying" conditions, (not the 2019-2020 stuff about unlocated separated minors).
                  
                  This was all pre-pandemic, over a year's worth,  and it is the criticisms I referred to, not the recent White House pandemic rationalization for reopening the facility. And this is why I think your use of only the White House explanation is where the "ignoring" is.
                  
                  It appears you are rationalizing Pres. Biden's use of the facility as a pandemic necessity, is that about right?
                  
                  GA

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   Valeantposted 3 years ago

   Oh, look...another attempt to hijack someone else's thread.

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   Valeantposted 3 years ago

   Indeed, I am saying that factoring in the pandemic is information that should be considered in this discussion.
   
   And I would welcome the photos from the conditions to see if they have improved before judging them to be inhumane.  Here are shots from one new such center opened in early February:
   
   https://www.valleycentral.com/news/main … -in-donna/

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