Is Donald Trump et-al Tools of the Russian Propaganda Machine?

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   My Esotericposted 3 years ago

   I ask that question because I see very little daylight between the rhetoric from Trump (and the Trumplicans) and Putin (and his propaganda machine).  They both deliver messages designed to tear America apart and make us doubt our democracy.
   
   Putin attacked our democracy via cyberwar while Trump et al attacks it through the Big Lie and physically on Jan 6th.  Frankly, it is hard to tell the difference between the two forms of assault on America.
   
   Can you?

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      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Bigger problem is telling the difference between Russian attempts at division and those of the Democrats.  On the surface they are worlds apart, but underneath, where it counts, both are making huge attempts to destroy our society through division.

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         My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         No problem at all.  There is nothing similar between Democratic rhetoric and Russian propaganda while that coming out of the RINO and Russian propaganda machines are almost identical.  While Democrats clearly advance the ideals of American democracy, it is just as clear the RINOs and Russians are trying to tear it down.
         
         This 2017 piece from an organization you often source, the Brookings Institute, is written by a conservative, judging from the tone of the piece, and foresaw what is happening today to the Republican Party of Putin:
         
         https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-fr … -of-putin/
         
         Now I need to see what he said about the Democrats and Russia. This is the lead in to his piece about the Democrats:
         "Democrats lack self-awareness as to their own record regarding Russia, argues James Kirchick. This helps explain why conservatives have so much trouble taking liberal outrage about Russia seriously: Most of the people lecturing them for being “Putin’s pawns” spent the better part of the past eight years blindly supporting a Democratic president, Barack Obama, whose default mode with Moscow was fecklessness." - I am not sure I entirely disagree with him - I always felt Obama was too much of a dove and preferred Hillary and Biden's more hawkish approach.  That said, what he said about the Democrats in 2017 certainly turned out to be true about Trump's "feckless" relationship to Putin in 2018, 2019, and 2020.

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            wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            That's what I said - the words are different, but underneath the lies designed and intended to foment division are there in spades.
            
            There was an insurrection by Trump's followers
            Trump instigated and caused the insurrection
            Trump said to drink bleach
            Trump colluded with Putin
            Trump intentionally harms children at the border
            Trump intentionally lost records for those children
            Trump killed a half million people
            
            On and on and on - all intended to divide people over Trump.  No truth anywhere, just divisive rhetoric.

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               My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               There was an insurrection by Trump's followers
               Trump instigated and caused the insurrection - That is true
               Trump said to drink bleach - That is also true
               Trump colluded with Putin - They, as a group, don't say that although Mueller proved some of his campaign did.  They just barely couldn't prove a conspiracy.
               Trump intentionally harms children at the border - That is true, his policies did in order stop border crossings
               Trump intentionally lost records for those children - You are making things up to try to prove a false point.  Where did "they" ever say "intentionally"??  Personally, I wouldn't put it past Trump or his administration
               Trump killed a half million people - It is probably true, many experts think so, that Trump policy, actions, and words have led to that many dead Americans
               
               These are just a few examples of how Trump and his RINOs try to divide America.
               
               - They conducted a Trump-initiated insurrection on Jan 6.
               - Trump et al continue to spread the BigLie which experts think will lead to more violence
               - Trump et al continue to challenge a free and fair election
               - Trump gives cover to terrorists like the Proud Boys and other White Supremacists
               - Trump spoke of "American Carnage", which didn't exist at the time of his inaugural, but does now.
               - Trump et all are disenfranchising voters
               - Trump advanced a racist agenda from Day One by advocating against Latino's, Blacks, LBGTQ, and most other American minorities.

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                  wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  No, no.  You don't understand.  It doesn't matter how many times you repeat a lie, it still isn't true.  Not even if you say "That is true' and put it in italics.

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                     My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     Sorry, it is you who doesn't understand, none of what I wrote are lies, your response is simply repeating the fake right-wing propaganda media.
                     
                     As to "Trump's insurrection", every day it becomes more probable he will be indicted for it as more and more of the participants testify that the only reason they were there and invaded the Capitol was because Trump told them to.

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                        wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        Well, errors is a more probably term...but I used your own methodology of claiming that anything wrong is an intentional lie.
                        
                        A handful of unarmed idiots swinging from the walls is not an "insurrection" and if you make the claim 5 million times it will still not be an insurrection.  Indeed, the riot, if it was about anything other than having a good time, was about enforcing the laws of the nation, not overthrowing it.  Perhaps overthrowing a sector of people (liberal Democrats) that had gained power and were ignoring the Constitution with fraudulent votes, but certainly not about overthrowing the government.
                        
                        I recognize you will deny this - that what you perceive and label as an "insurrection" was about the Big Lie, as you put it, but you are trying to ignore that the Big Lie was truth to those people.  AND that, being truth, there was no insurrection, only an attempt to enforce the law.
                        
                        Likewise with Trump's supposedly deliberate effort to overthrow the government.  While it is quite convenient to ignore his words, change them into what they were not, and make up words that you then claim he said, none of that promotes truth.  Just a lie, particularly when it is being done deliberately.

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                           My Esotericposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           "A handful of unarmed idiots swinging from the walls is not an "insurrection"" - You must be watching the "edited" version from Fox and the other right-wing propaganda machine.
                           
                           Given the way you phrased it, nobody busted any windows, nobody built a gallows for VP Pence, nobody broke into the capital and screamed hang Mike Pence and threatened to kill other members of Congress.  You believe that none of that happened - is that your story?
                           
                           BTW, I forgot the last dozen times you put out that false narrative, how many is a "handful"?  5, 10, 20?
                           
                           "While it is quite convenient to ignore his words," - Between the two of us, the ONLY one that is ignoring his works.  If I am not mistaken, you are fixated on one or two.  The insurrectionists heard (and obeyed) his words when he called them to Washington.  They believed his words when he told the to stop the certification (the definition of insurrection, btw).  They understood him to mean attack the Capitol, which they did with vigor and violence.  That is and will be their testimony as over 480 of them (and counting) try to stop from becoming felons.
                           
                           Think about it.  If "a handful" "misunderstood" what Trump wanted them to do, that is one thing,  When the US Capitol was attacked "by thousands of well-equipped armed insurrectionists" (Sund), that is an entirely different matter and I am guessing will form the basis of the insurrection indictment of Trump.
                           
                           "Big Lie was truth to those people." - LOL - by your logic, all the attacks and murder of Jews in America should be forgiven because they are based the "TRUTH" as the murders knew it because they can claim self-defense.
                           
                           No, the Big Lie is just that, a lie and believing a lie cannot be a defense to bad actions based on that lie. and courts have already told defendants and their lawyers who offered it how ridiculous that defense is. I will allow one exception to the categorical statement -  if the Big Lie was the ONLY information available, which, in this case, it wasn't.  There was massive amounts of credible evidence to the contrary.

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   emgeposted 3 years ago

   I have a feeling you are consumed by your internal fear and no wonder you're talking of Trump and Putin. You must be aware, during the recent meeting between Biden and Putin, the American president gave some praise to Putin.  Just talking about Trump is like flogging a dead horse and I want to know, those who are writing all this what they're getting out of it. Mark my words Trump and Trumpism will be back in the USA and all the others will be just wringing their hands. Talking of democracy in America, in my view is again flogging a dead horse. Democracy means equal opportunities and the American state has not been able to give equal opportunities to the blacks who are still discriminated against even after 245 years of the declaration of independence. America is a conditional democracy and not the egalitarian society that we think of. In my visits to America, I have seen the bias against the black man and I have first-hand experience about it. The killing of Floyd was not an incident but a disease and that has permeated all over America, though there are many who don't believe in it. America is on the downslide and I have written in many articles Joe Biden will be the catalyst to sink the American empire as Bahadur shah did to the Mughal Empire.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      The future is in the hands of the many. The most common sentiment will become known
      And will show itself
      And prove that people with your opinion, out look and surmise to be just plain
      Wrong.

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