Has Donald Trump Killed the So-Called Republican Party?
In my opinion, yes - the Republican Party no-longer exists today even though Trump followers incorrectly refer to themselves as Republicans.
Let me open this discussion with a short tutorial of the Republican Party (now keep in mind, the Party title has no bearing on the Party philosophy and any given point in history).
The first time Republican was used to refer to a political party at the national level was in the 1790s when Jefferson and Madison formed the Democratic-Republican Party (it was aka Jeffersonian Republicans along with a few other names).
Around 1820, this party split into the Democratic Party (the one we know today but with a very conservative philosophy) and the much more liberal Whig Party.
Around 1860, the anti-slavery factions of the Whig and Democratic parties joined forces and created the Republican Party in order to elect Abraham Lincoln. The more conservative pro-slavery elements of the Whigs joined their like-minded brothers in the Democratic Party. By and large, the Republicans took liberal positions while the Democratic Party championed conservative pro-slavery sentiments.
For the most part, this is the way things stood until the election of FDR in 1934. At this point, Democrats became more liberal while the Republicans became more conservative. This migration continued until the reversal was complete by 1994 when conservatives dominated the Republican Party and liberals dominated the Democratic Party.
This lasted until 2016 with the advent of Trump and Trumpism. From 2016 until today, the Republican Party quickly forgot what it stood for as it rapidly became the party of Trump, which brings us to today and this question.
What are called Republicans today do not hold conservative values anymore and certainly do not hold liberal values - instead, they hold Trump values such as the Big Lie, destabilizing democracy, and fomenting discontent and revolution.
On Saturday, Sept 18, the Republicans are going to hold a rally (which police and DHS think will turn violent) to comfort and succor to the 600+ people arrested for violently assaulting police, invading the Capitol, making our elected representatives go into hiding to save their lives, and stopping the function of government. By definition, that is called insurrection.
In my opinion, what we knew as the Republican Party died on Jan 6, 2021.It is so fascinating seeing people assigning values and beliefs to people they know nothing about. Claiming that the Republican Party, and Republicans in general, hold values such as "Big Lie, destabilizing democracy, and fomenting discontent and revolution" is about as true as Democrats and the Democrat party hold values such as "abortion until the fetus is outside the womb", "no American should own a firearm", and "any illegal aliens that can get across the border should become American citizens".
Both are taking the radical fringe and apply their values to the rest of the party, and both statements are foolish in the extreme. Neither is anywhere near reality, any more than the statement that "Republicans" are holding the rally today and implying it is backed and supported by the Republican Party or even Republicans in general.
(By the way, if "stopping the function of government" is an "insurrection" then those Democrats leaving the state from local legislatures are also an "insurrection", for that is exactly what they were intended to do.)" Claiming that the Republican Party, and Republicans in general, hold values such as "Big Lie, destabilizing democracy, and fomenting discontent and revolution"" - Then I guess you have been ignoring all the polls where the VAST majority of Republicans think Trump, lol, won the election and believe his Big Lie. Since they do, it follows directly that they "destabilizing democracy, and fomenting discontent and revolution"" since that is the logical conclusion from Trump's activities. See how simple that is to understand?
"Both are taking the radical fringe and apply their values to the rest of the party," - So, are you saying that the vast majority of House and Senate Republicans are extremists and don't represent today's so-called Republican Party? Interesting theory
"stopping the function of government" is an "insurrection"..." - I can understand how you might think that if you don't know the elements of the crime of insurrection. So, to edjumacate you, Insurrection is to incite, assist in or engage in a full-on rebellion against the government: a step beyond just conspiring against it, and requiring that significant violence be involved.. Now show me how the Democrats who didn't go to work in Texas satisfy those elements of proof.I cannot consider a few rioters, even accompanied with some adrenaline junkies, armed only with clubs and pepper spray, as a "full-on rebellion against the government". No reasonable person could.
As far as those Democrats in Texas, I used your definition of people "stopping the function of government". Was that definition then completely false?There you go with that ridiculous "few" again. Given there were more than a 1,000 there whose very violent actions led to the death of several policemen from their assault on them tells everybody your sense of perspective does not exist. I think it is a good thing the insurrectionists weren't black instead of white racists - there would have been dozens of dead bodies laying around instead of one white women climbing through a window attempting to harm or kill congress people.
Bottom line, no reasonable person would not consider that an insurrection and the polls back me up on this.
"It definitely qualifies as a riot although there is a big partisan split over whether you can call it an insurrection. But few say what happened at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th was a legitimate protest, according to the Monmouth (“Mon-muth”) University Poll.
"Just 33%, though, say calling it a “legitimate protest” is appropriate." - that would be you and the rest of the Trumpers.
"87% of Democrats, 67% of independents, and 62% of Republicans say the word ("riot") is an apt description
"but there is a wide gap for applying “insurrection” to the event – ranging from 85% of Democrats to 48% of independents and just 33% of Republicans who feel the term is appropriate. " - That is a whole lot of "unreasonable" people who think what happened on Jan 6th was an insurrection.
You don't need to say it (because you won't) but you stand corrected. LOL.
Also, this is another reason why I think my opinion that the Republican Party is defunct - "When they’re asked who “the true President is right now,” most Republicans say it’s Trump. And more than 30 percent of Republicans reject a basic premise of democracy: that “the loser in an election must concede defeat.” - How can you have a legitimate American political party where that many reject democracy?+=
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 … polls.html"There you go with that ridiculous "few" again. Given there were more than 1,000 there whose very violent actions led to the death of several policemen from their assault on them tells everybody your sense of perspective does not exist."
There you go again making claims that more than one police officer died due to being at the Jan 6th, 2021 Protest
List of those that died due to participating in the protest.
Call what happened at the Capitolanything you please, but keep your facts clear when it comes to those that died on that day.
"• Ashli Babbitt, 35, died by homicide from a gunshot to the left shoulder. She was shot by a Capitol police officer while trying to climb through a door near the House chamber.
• Kevin Greeson, 55, died of natural causes from cardiovascular disease. Greeson, of Athens, Alabama, had a Twitter account in which he supported former President Donald Trump and profanely denounced his opponents.
• Benjamin Phillips, 50, died of natural causes from cardiovascular disease. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Phillips of Ringtown, Pennsylvania, was a computer programmer who founded a social media website for Trump supporters. He had organized a trip of several dozen people to the district.
• Roseanne Boyland, 34, died by accident from acute amphetamine intoxication. Boyland, of Georgia, wanted to be a sobriety counselor and followed QAnon conspiracies, her family said.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol … 128040002/
Brian Sicknick, a United States Capitol Police officer, died on January 7, 2021, the day after he responded to the storming of the Capitol. He was pepper-sprayed during the riot, and had two thromboembolic strokes the next day,[1][2] after which he was placed on life support,[3] and soon died.[4][5] The District of Columbia chief medical examiner found that Sicknick had died from stroke, classifying his death as natural, whereby a death is "not hastened by an injury",[6] and additionally commented that "all that transpired played a role in his condition."[7][8] His body lay in honor in the Capitol Rotunda, before his cremated remains were buried with full honors at Arlington National Cemetery.[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Sicknick
I would think you are referring to the four officers that unfortunately committed in the last few months. This although sad, there is no evidence that these officer's deaths resulted from being on duty that day.
"It is not clear if the events of Jan. 6 contributed to the officers' suicides, and research shows that law enforcement officers experience stressors as a regular part of the job and can struggle with mental health issues."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/officer … d=79238300
https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/the … ollection/"There you go again making claims that more than one police officer died due to being at the Jan 6th, 2021 Protest" - I think the count is five, so far. One as a result of the physical assault on him, and four others from PTSD they suffered from the extreme violence at the hands of Republican rioters.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/02/3rd-pol … p-mob.html
Claiming that the police suicides are not related to Jan 6 is like claiming the soldier suicides from PTSD are not related to their service in Iraq or Afghanistan.You have absolutely no way of knowing what caused these police officers to commit suicide. We have no information on the physical health or phycological health of these men. I love how you just assume you know why these men committed suicide.
Let's stick to facts... Did any of the police that had to put up with true violence last summer kill themselves? They were battered nightly with violent rioters. Can I assume if any killed themselves it was the fault of the Democrats that were out there nightly physically fighting with the officers, throwing all kinds of projectiles at them? For months, not hours...
Get real!Unlike you, I can connect the obvious dots. Most thinking Americans can and have come to the same conclusion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pu … story.html
And it seems to me it was the police doing most of the battering of peaceful protestors during the summer.
From Fake Fox News, during the summer of protests over the police murder of George Floyd and many other unarmed black people, there were -
8,700 protests nationwide
547 were declared riots (note, none were declared insurrections)
Only 7% of protests were considered violent
Unlike the Jan 6 insurrection, "In most cases, the criminal acts were the work of individuals or small groups that infiltrated larger demonstrations," While the 1000+ insurrectionists were part of a much larger protest, many of them acted in coordination and with pre-planning.
Now, the article does say over 2,000 police officers were injured over the summer, but it didn't say how many were hurt by rioters and how many were hurt while beating peaceful protesters. But let's say, for the sake of argument, all 2,000 were at the hands of rioters that would mean, on average, .2 officers were hurt per protest and not the 140+ on Jan 6. Or, if you want to limit the denominator to just riots, then a whopping 3.6 officers were hurt per riot.
Also, how many times at these riots were police under violent attack by actual rioters bigger in number than they were for 5 hours straight? NONE.
Further, not one of the protestors or rioters were there at the behest of any Democrat - they were protesting the murders of black people by police. On the other hand, the people at the Capitol were there for only one reason, to overturn a free and fair election.
So, I am sticking to the FACTS while you draw false equivalencies.
A whopping big difference between the false equivalency you are failing to draw.
https://www.policemag.com/585160/more-t … -and-riotsYou are so funny --- another 'if I say it's true.
"Further, not one of the protestors or rioters were there at the behest of any Democrat "
“If you’re able to, chip in now to the @MNFreedomFund to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minnesota,” Harris Tweeted
Harris promoted and the organization to bail out protesters Sex offenders and murderers. Actually, last I heard she is a Dem. One of the thugs the organization she supported was arrested for Murder
"A man freed under a rioter bail fund backed by now Vice President Kamala Harris is in jail after murdering a man in a Minneapolis road rage incident."
"38-year-old Luis Damian Martinez was killed by a gunshot wound to the chest according to the Hennepin County Medical Examiner. He was shot and killed by 47-year-old George Howard, of Minneapolis.
https://www.shorenewsnetwork.com/2021/0 … nneapolis/
Here is another that was bailed out -- https://nypost.com/2021/02/03/man-twice … ted-again/
I am still laughing --- this one is a keeper - OMG.
"Now, the article does say over 2,000 police officers were injured over the summer, but it didn't say how many were hurt by rioters and how many were hurt while beating peaceful protesters."
You have seen the footage of the summer riots. need I post a few?And do you want me to post the footage of George Floyd being murdered? Or peaceful protestors being mauled by the police. Guess who will have more footage, and it won't be you.
This conversation has nothing to do with George Floyd. You are so hung up on the past. You once again deflect away from the subject. You felt "Further, not one of the protestors or rioters were there at the behest of any Democrat "
I provided you the information in regard to Kamala Harris's showing she was very much involved and promoted her followers to donate to an organization to donate bail money to bail out thugs that were arrested while protesting. Many that had long violent rap sheets.
I don't promote any type of violent protest. I don't care what the cause... Period. I don't care if protesters were on the streets of Minn, Baltimore, Seattle, or any city, that would include the Capitol. Thugs are thugs if they break the law I want them arrested, and punished. I don't want them bailed out to commit more crimes.Now you're back to full on racism.
'...to donate to an organization to donate bail money to bail out thugs that were arrested while protesting.'
When she made her post, again, you omit the time, the people arrested were arrested at a peaceful protest, during the daytime. You calling them thugs is just your own really blatant racism on full display for us all to see.She supported an organization that bailed out protesters, some of which had long rap sheets of violent crimes, and went on the commit more crimes after they were released. I have offered evidence to that fact.
Harris would have absolutely no way of knowing who was being bailed out, nor did she apparently care... I did not bring up race, that would be you... Not sure how you know who was arrested or why any individual was arrested. I do know Harris wrote a tweet and supported the organization, and asked for donations to bail out protesters.
What did you find racist in regard to my comment? The word thug? If so, I could certainly ascertain it is you that has associated people of color as thugs. I was referring to those "arrested" as thugs... I have no idea of these protester's race. In fact, most at the riots appeared to be white. Which in my opinion were white liberal do-gooders. I find your assumption ridiculous.
thug
/THəɡ/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1. a violent person, especially a criminal.I would never call people peacefully protesting the violent murder of an American citizen in the streets, thugs. You saying that is what clearly makes your statement racist. You clearly see all black people as thugs. You being unable to separate those peacefully protesting (93%) from those opportunists who chose to riot and vandalize (7%) is what clearly makes you a racist when looking at your own words.
And again, since you struggle with reading, your omission of the time difference between when Harris tweeted her support for the MNFreedom Fund and when they began using their resources on violent criminals is what makes your claim fabricated in tying it back to Harris. You are claiming Harris supported the release of violent criminals by way of omitting when the Freedom Fund was pressured to use their funds - which is such BS.
The amount of times you ignore critical pieces of information to fabricate a narrative is tiresome. And as you continue to compound those fabrications with clear statements of open racism, don't expect some of us to sit idly by while you spam this site with it."I would never call people peacefully protesting the violent murder of an American citizen in the streets, thugs. You saying that is what clearly makes your statement racist"
First, the protests were not peaceful. Second, In my view they were thugs. I did not refer to color in any respect. It would be you that brought up race. It appears you feel you can assume, and read into my thoughts. Odd at best. I offered the definition of thugs. In no respect does the word define or point to race.
I referred that Harris supported an organization, nothing more, nothing less... IMO she did not even know anything about the organization at all. She was politicking.
Please offer a link to the critical piece of information you speak of.
I would hope if HP finds I am posting anything inappropriate they would remove the post. I am disappointed that they continue to let you openly insult users with personal unfounded accusations.
.Yes, the vast majority of the protests were peaceful. That you assign Harris' statement of support to the 7% of non-peaceful ones is another form of racism in thinking that a black woman must be supportive of crime.
And when you refer to protesters, most peaceful, organized by BLM and other groups supporting racial justice generally as thugs just because they ended up arrested during peaceful protests, that is racism.
Maybe this article can help you understand the term better:
https://www.npr.org/2015/04/30/40336262 … -word-thug
And yes, I do hope that HP removes your vitriol every time you bring up the Minnesota Freedom Fund arguments since you so misunderstand them.Do you mean these protests that were taking place all over our Democratic cities in May of 2020? Are these the peaceful protests you refer to?
June 1 2020 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDZ9Zw6itKg
May 28, 2020 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5fRbi4yTz8
May 2020 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_4FluN2Wsk
May 2020 -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvGxCHz9N30
May Chicago --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAUi5pGAT-4
May Washington DC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujtPygMy1I8
I clearly understand that violent riots were occurring, and many cities kept up the fun for months. Get real.
It has been proven beyond a doubt that MFF bailed out violent protesters.Great, you were able to find six videos as part of the 7% I already conceded as having been violent or riots. Kudos for having proof of something I stated as fact already.
Here is who Minnesota Freedom Fund was prior to Harris' tweet:
Before Floyd’s death, MFF bailed out 563 people with an average bail of $342, according to numbers provided by the group.
Doubt very many violent offenders get out on bail for $342.
Much of the money donated to the MFF was given to help protesters get out of jail after Floyd’s death, and for “nuisance bail” for gross misdemeanor offenses. Harris even tweeted to support 'those protesting on the the ground.' Not those rioting, not those looting. That's where you are inferring intent that simply does not exist.
In the months after, the fund - not Harris mind you - has chosen to bail out 184 people, but the average bail is much higher, $13,195. If you have an issue, you should have it with the fund itself.
And like I noted, they were pressured to spend that money when right-wing media made it a focus. So first, the right-wing media complained that they aren't spending it - then they complain when the only options remaining to spend it on end up being on violent criminals since many of the protesting had diminished."Harris even tweeted to support 'those protesting on the the ground.' Not those rioting, not those looting. "
On the ground versus those that were protesting in the sky...
LOL
She supported a group that was bailing out people that were arrested due to breaking the law. Very clearly the arrested were mainly made at night when thugs were burning and looting. Believe whatever you please.
Your argument in my view falls short and makes no sense whatsoever."She supported a group that was bailing out people that were arrested due to breaking the law." - Doesn't that statement imply that you oppose bail for anybody that is arrested or maybe it is only for those who can't afford bail but it is OK for those who can?
Yes, protesting. Focus on the actual important words.
And on May 31, a group of 150 protesters were walking towards I-35 when at 8pm, they were in violation of the curfew and were surrounded and arrested. Minnesota Department of Corrections Commissioner Paul Schnell said those who were arrested "were very respectful with officers." Not exactly the thuggery you imagined it to be.
Harris' tweet - 4:34pm the next day.
I'm sorry you lack the ability to do deeper research or formulate a connection between those two events. Instead, you have to fabricate that Harris was supporting rioters and looters.
Yes, he means those. I guess you missed it but even Fake Fox News reported that 93% of those WERE peaceful (I provided you the link). It is telling that you focus on OLNY the 7%. SAD.
Explain that to the people of Portland who lost their businesses. Or to those in Seattle who were forced from their homes or died. Even those in Minneapolis. Explain well how it doesn't matter because 93% of riots were peaceful.
If peaceful, why were they arrested? I would venture to say most arrests were done at night, and the protesters arrested were being violent in some respect.
Again, pointing to your own racial biases. Most were actually curfew violations. Weird how you think that during social justice protests, most arrests just have to be 'violent in some respect.'
Racial biases once again... I find that kind of BS intolerable --- and don't intend to get ban due to your baiting. BYE
Were peaceful protesters arrested? Did the police just arrest people at random? What was reported is that the jails were full, from prior nights of protesting. So odd that our police would just arrest people that were not committing crimes. This is getting ridiculous. Believe whatever suits you.
"First, the protests were not peaceful. " - Yet she calls the insurrections peaceful. I don't get it.
I have never claimed the Jan 6th protest was peaceful, in any terms. I have said the protesters had the same right to protest as any American citizen.
Sharlee, come on. Yes, you have never said you agreed with the violence that took place that day, but you also have often minimized and excused what took place on that day. Many times you tried to explain away their actions by suggesting that they just didn't believe the election was fair. At the same time you fought against the explanation of why they thought that way - Trump's Big Lie
"some of which had long rap sheets " - So because of this, you feel the organization's purpose to bail out people presumed innocent who can't afford it? Are you one of those right-wingers who believes that if somebody is arrested, therefore they are guilty until proven innocent? Based on your line of reasoning, I think that is a fair question
No, I am one of those that think if one is arrested the police had a reason to arrest them... The process is arrest, charge, as a rule, bail, and then the accused will have their day in court.
I use to think that as well, but after observing the world for almost 74 years (OK, strike the first 10 before I became socially aware) I have learned not to be so naive. I watched how fair and upstanding the racist police were during the 50s and 60s as blacks and others protested the murders of innocent, unarmed Blacks, and a few whites, by racist police.
Then I watched it again the summer of 2020 as people were protesting the murder's by racist police of unarmed Blacks.
And guess what I watched in between those two periods - cops beating and arresting peaceful war protesters (who I opposed, btw).
Oh yeah, how about all of those so-called "stop and frisks" that were so popular in NYC.
While I do realize more than 50% of all cops are good and do an honest job, I long ago lost faith that "most" cops are that way.
"This conversation has nothing to do with George Floyd. " - [i]I agree, it has to do with the disappearance of the Republican Party and its support of the Jan 6 insurrection. It is YOU who are bringing up the summer riots resulting from the murder of George Floyd, not I. Stop talking about the summer riots and I'll stop talking about the reason behind them - the protests over the murder of black people by white cops and the incidental riots to otherwise peaceful protests. Do we have a deal?['i]
" Republican Party and its support of the Jan 6 insurrection."
I have made an attempt to stay on just that subject. I posted a comment in regard to yesterday's Capitol, protest. It was reported only a sparse handful showed up, and a couple had a sign representing ANTIFA. IT worked to prove my point, Republican's moved away from any form of public spectacles. We will leave that up to trouble makers from both parties.
I will repeat I don't support protests that result in violence. I don't care what is being protested.
When you make misleading statements like this "donate to an organization to donate bail money to bail out thugs", I hope you can understand why no sensible person can take what you claim seriously. You know as well as I that the purpose of the "organization" is NOT to bail out thugs, but to bail out people caught up in overzealous police actions who can't afford bail.
Why must you insist on trying to mislead us? I don't understand.
Again Geoge Floyd... Still not willing to respond to the 10 people killed due to poor decision-making. or the fact Harris meets the criteria of being a Democrat that supported the violent summer of love riots. Was this not your statement ?-- ""Further, not one of the protestors or rioters were there at the behest of any Democrat "
""Further, not one of the protestors or rioters were there at the behest of any Democrat "" - Which is true. They were not there in support of Harris (while ALL of the insurrectionists and non-violent protesters were at the Capitol in support of Trump), they were there protesting the murders of unarmed blacks by white racists cops. (Let's see, which one would I rather be protesting in support of 1) Trump's Big Lie or 2) the Black Lives cut short by racist white cops? I will go with door # 2.
I am sorry you feel that Biden woke up one morning and decided to kill 10 innocent people. Obviously you don't care about the truth. One, he didn't do that. Two, neither did the people who ordered the strike. Three, and most importantly you apparently would have rather had more soldiers killed (so you could blame Biden for that as well) rather than take pro-active action trying to eliminate a real threat to our soldiers lives. Obviously, it is unfortunate that those on the ground fixated on what turned out to be the wrong target. But never mind, it makes for good political fodder to continue your BDS campaign.
How many times do you need this claim about the MNFreedom Fund debunked before you stop repeating it? Every single damned time, you leave out information pertaining to time to fabricate a false narrative. That, to me, makes you a liar when you omit something so critical to slander someone.
Not sure what you are referring to. Did Harris not write the tweet in question? Did I offer false information on the two that were bailed out by that very organization not to be rearrested, one for murder?
Do you feel Harris tweet asking for donations not supporting the organization? What false narrative have I perpetrated? Perhaps you can offer a source. Your comment is vague. I can see it rubbed you the wrong way, and made you uncomfortable due to your personal attack.
Not sure what you are referring to. I feel the context of my comment is clear, and I supported my view with sources.
Once again here is Harris tweet --- If you’re able to, chip in now to the
@MNFreedomFund
to help post bail for those protesting on the ground in Minnesota.
https://twitter.com/kamalaharris/status … 43?lang=enAgain, when Harris wrote the tweet, it was literally just after many were arrested during a daytime peaceful protest.
The Minnesota Fund was a source of providing bail. Harris' tweet led to huge increases in donations. Then, in the two months that followed, the right-wing media noted that the majority of those resources were not being spent on bail initiatives.
Minnesota Freedom Fund then responded by using those resources to bail out anybody and everybody. Hence, your list of violent offenders. Shoot, one could easily make the case that the pressure from the right-wing media was what led to release of violent offenders. They certainly didn't expand into doing that when Harris tweeted her support for them - which you clearly keep accusing her of doing."daytime peaceful protest." - You forget, Valeant, from the perspective of the Right-Wing, NO protest is peaceful - UNLESS it is in support of Trump.
CNN had a good report on how the right-wing propaganda (they were nicer and called them "media") outlets work - Lie, Rinse, Repeat
'Claiming that the police suicides are not related to Jan 6 is like claiming the soldier suicides from PTSD are not related to their service in Iraq or Afghanistan.'
Exactly. To see it in any other way is to deny reality.Are you aware of how many police officers commit suicide in the US?
I am not aware why these officers committed suicide, and I would venture to say -- neither are you. There are studies that show the profession does have a high risk of suicide.
https://www.addictioncenter.com/news/20 … rofession/Yes, I am aware But these particular suicides were directly related to being assaulted on Jan 6 and probably the guilt of not being able to protect the Capitol. You have to remember, these proud officers failed at their primary function on that day - protecting people.
Denying reality is what Trump and his defenders/supporters are masters at.
Consider that interviewee from the rally in support of the insurrection yesterday where the interviewee denied there was any violence on Jan 6 and asked for proof. When the reporter showed videos of the violence, the interviewee denied what they were seeing was violence. Sounds like a few of the commenters on this and other forums.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/09/1 … nr-vpx.cnn
That is exactly why the Republican Party is dying. The Democrats ought to wise up and take former Republicans like Liz Cheney into the party to form the conservative wing. Or, since that probably won't happen, people like her and Sen Murkowski and Sen Collins, and Sen Flake ought to form a new party that holds to real principals rather than fealty to Trump.
'What are called Republicans today do not hold conservative values anymore and certainly do not hold liberal values - instead, they hold Trump values such as the Big Lie, destabilizing democracy, and fomenting discontent and revolution."
That statement in my view is your opinion... The Republican party is alive and well. Yes, the party is evolving to a more progressive demanding party. Partly because over the past 5 years we have witnessed such foolishness, we are no longer willing or stomach the crap Democrats dish up daily.
The American's that will march tomorrow have the right to protest. Are they willing to fight for their cause?-- maybe. . But, when a crowd marches on our Capitol, t would be smart to take note. This country is divided. I personally blame the Democratic party for much of what is occurring.
" (which police and DHS think will turn violent)" You totally listen and believe anything the left media report. After all the crazy things they claimed and said about Trump, and all were proven to be untrue--- you still buy into this crap. Amazing. One would think you would at some
point see how destructive all this media BS is.
Move on --- we have lots of news today --- More unnecessary deaths in Afghanistan, due to a drone strike that Biden ordered -- which killed at least a dozen innocent people 7 of which were children. Biden has blood on his hands, and he needs to be removed immediately. Once again he proved he is unintelligent and dangerous. And I am being kind...
Forget Trump you got a very problematic president that is presently in the White House. Like I said the other day --- what next?"That statement in my view is your opinion... " - Yes, it is my opinion - but it is based on observable, undeniable fact.
Saying that the Republican Party is alive and well is simply your opinion not based on observable, undeniable facts.
I would talk about Biden having "blood on his hands" until you go through the long litany of examples of where Trump (and by association, the Trump Party) is drenched in it.
"You totally listen and believe anything the left media report." - No, I believe what DHS reports. But yes, I also believe what mainstream media reports as well because they have a long, well established history of telling the truth.
I am not going to listen to your admonishes about Biden and unnecessary deaths in Afghanistan until you admit Trump is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in America. Until then, you are just being unfairly partisan.
I am sorry, what MSM source do you have that Biden personally ordered that drone strike? You know as well as I do that that is simply a lie.
Overall, Biden is doing a great job - Trump hardly ever did.
"After all the crazy things they claimed and said about Trump, and all were proven to be untrue" - [i]That, obviously, is a figment of your imagination. What crazy and untrue things did they make up themselves about Trump? Now, I am talking about real journalists. Not those fake opinion-makers on OAN, Brietbart, FakeFox, New Day, NewsMax, etc.
"And I am being kind..." - I am sorry, but you actually appear to be delusional and living in Trump's fantasy world of make-believe where he won the election.I fail to see how Biden is doing a great job.
Nor do I see the Democratic Majority in Congress getting anything done.
The country needs leadership, fresh ideas, a positive outlook to the future... conviction not the compromise to corporate corruption like we have today.
We were supposed to have a Green New Deal... that helped propel America into a New Age of Renewable Energy and Zero Carbon vehicles.
We are supposed to have an Infrastructure Bill that “Would make the largest investment in clean energy transmission in American history, modernizing our power grid to accelerate the build-out of zero-carbon, renewable energy. It would replace thousands of gas-guzzling buses with clean, electric ones, including 35,000 electric school buses. It would cap abandoned wells leaking methane gas,” Biden bragged in an op-ed published a couple weeks back.
The House legislation made room for more than 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations to put towards Biden’s wish that “rural and disadvantaged communities” could “get passenger vehicles off the road and reduce fossil fuel consumption.”
The proposal calls for $160 billion to fund subsidies and purchase incentives, and incentives to electrify heavy-duty commercial fleets.
I am waiting to see if they are going to accomplish it... or if it will be just another political show of finger pointing and blame game, where none of the promises get done... and what is passed only feeds the rich, at the expense of the poor, much like the ACA preyed on the Working Class, making them pay through the nose for insurance that covered next to nothing, while enriching the Insurance Companies and Pharmaceutical giants."I fail to see how Biden is doing a great job." - Of course you don't, you have BDS and are quite myopic as demonstrated by your frequent comments in defense of Trump and the terrible job he did.
"We were supposed to have a Green New Deal... " - No we weren't. Why? Because most Democrats don't buy into it, Biden certainly doesn't
"We are supposed to have an Infrastructure Bill " - Why didn't you write, at this point in Trump's presidency that "We are supposed to have a Tax Cut for the wealthy Bill". You didn't, now why are you now? Could it be BDS? BTW, to be precise like a few other commenters here love to do, we DO have the infrastructure bill, two of them. They just haven't passed.
" much like the ACA preyed on the Working Class," - BTW, that "working class" you mention - they love ACA today now that they see how it really works and have gotten past the Republican propaganda campaign against it.
"I would talk about Biden having "blood on his hands" until you go through the long litany of examples of where Trump (and by association, the Trump Party) is drenched in it."
Trump is not president... Biden is. this obsession of yours is very much noted. Biden is piling up one disaster after another. One of the worst being people dying due to his inability to make sound decisions. Not sure how anyone could defend this man.
"I am sorry, what MSM source do you have that Biden personally ordered that drone strike? You know as well as I do that that is simply a lie."
Really A LIE? You frequently refer to me as promoting lies... It would more appear that when you dislike a fact, you write it off as a lie...
The Commander and Cheif are responsible for the Military it has been reported that Biden ordered the strike. by the AP... Not sure who you feel ordered the drone attack? Perhaps Rough Milley?
"WASHINGTON (AP) — Acting swiftly on President Joe Biden’s promise to retaliate for the deadly suicide bombing at Kabul airport, the U.S. military said it used a drone strike to kill a member of the Islamic State group’s Afghanistan affiliate Saturday.
The strike came amid what the White House called indications that IS planned to strike again as the U.S.-led evacuation from Kabul airport moved into its final days. Biden has set Tuesday as his deadline for completing the exit.
BIDEN AUTHORIZED THE DRONE STRIKE and it was ordered by Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, a defense official said, speaking on condition of anonymity to provide details not yet publicly announced.
Source AP --- https://apnews.com/article/asia-pacific … 527e421226
We will disagree on Biden's job performance. He daily has new problems occurring, most of his own making. And in regard to being delusional --- it would seem once again you dispute a fact due to just not wanting to accept the truth. Biden ordered a drone attack that killed 7 children. And I shudder to think where Milley got his tip that terrorists were in the car they blew up. Did that man take information from his newfound friends in the Taliban? I see he will be questioned in the coming weeks. It will be interesting to hear what he has to share. I will venture he was very much involved in the flawed session making that has caused such a disaster in Afghanistan. Biden left so many behind, and now, reports are leaking out of so many being systematically killed by the Taliban.
Biden has disgraced America... HE GAVE THE ORDER. The bottom line is his blame game is over in my book. He is the guy that has made one bad decision after another.
While he continues to ignore all of the messes he made ---
American's have taken notices. He refuses to take responsibility for the border, Afghanistan, the failing economy, COVID raging, and his poor Foreign policies, his infrastructure bill being held hostage by Pelosi. His poor ability to problem solve is evident. Like I said it's hard to keep up with all the problems Biden is causing.
Then there is this... Another lie out of the Biden Ad.
"White House accused of scrubbing Macron criticism of Biden from the official transcript of Afghanistan call" "The White House has been accused of omitting French president Emmanuel Macron’s scathing remarks from an official press communication on US president Joe Biden’s handling of the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Afghanistan.
The document, carrying a statement from a call between the presidents on 19 August, was released by both the governments,"
"The statement released by the French government, however, said Mr Macron reminded Mr Biden of the “collective moral responsibility” towards Afghan men and women.
It added that Mr Macron “underscored the absolute need for swift, concrete coordination between the allies to ensure the evacuation of our citizens, Afghan men and women who worked for the allies, and those who are in danger.”
“We cannot abandon them,” it added."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 07078.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … Biden.html
Then there is this --- https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/09/17 … tical-news
Furious Over Sub Deal, France Recalls Ambassadors to the U.S. ...
Then there is this bit of ugly --- A liberal judge bit Old Joe in the butt. LOL
Judge orders Biden administration to stop expelling migrant families using Trump-era Title 42 policy
"WASHINGTON – A judge on Thursday ordered the Biden administration to stop expelling migrant families with children under a public health policy that allows migrants to be turned away from the United States to prevent the spread of COVID-19 in holding facilities.
The order was issued by District Judge Emmet Sullivan of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. Sullivan's ruling will take effect in 14 days."
And it all just gets worse at the border daily..."Trump is not president... " - What difference does that make? Trump was president when he was responsible for all those deaths yet I didn't see you complaining then. Why are you complaining now?
"Not sure how anyone could defend this man." - In the same way you defend Trump with the difference being Biden is very defensible
"it has been reported that Biden ordered the strike." - Probably FakeFox News lying again. If you would read REAL news then you would have known "“As the combatant commander, I am fully responsible for this strike and its tragic outcome,” U.S. Marine Corps Gen. Kenneth McKenzie, commander of U.S. Central Command, told reporters.". Off course this doesn't say exactly who ordered the strike, but it certainly wasn't Biden (although being the kind of good president he is, he would probably (if he hasn't already) take the same responsibility as the general did - something your cowardly hero Trump would never do.
"BIDEN AUTHORIZED THE DRONE STRIKE " - Do you even read your own sources beyond the headline? This article is talking about the first strike, not the second one in Kabul.
"Biden ordered a drone attack that killed 7 children. " - Is STILL a lie no matter how many times you repeat it.
The ONLY person and people who have and is disgracing America is Trump and most Republicans.Biden is at the beach this weekend... As usual, leaving others to pick up his disasters. I am very confident the Republicans will ask Milley --- "Who ordered the drone strike that killed these innocent civilians." I am also sure of what his answer will be.
7 children were killed. This president needs to be held accountable for such a horrendous mistake. The Commander and Chief is responsible for drone strikes. https://nypost.com/2021/09/17/pentagon- … ne-strike/
" After Joe Biden took office, he halted counterterrorism drone strikes without White House approval and initiated a broad review of U.S. policy on drone use."
200,000 Americans killed by Trump. That man needs to be held accountable.
He also needs to be held accountable for the insurrection, illegally trying to change votes in GA, grifting the American public, and a host of other things.
Let's start with him first.As I said Trump is not president, and I could care less about the past. I am at this point concerned about what is happening new. It's more than apparent you are stuck on Trump. I can see you have deflected, it is obvious you can't face the present, what is happening now. You deflect and don't address the problems of this administration. I need not compare Trump to Biden. And refuse to subject me to all your conspiracy theories about Trump. We both know none of your past theories gave proven to be factual.
Lets' start with the failures of Biden, the failures that are visible, and can be proven. Like those kids, they were alive now they are dead... Due to the Biden administration. Our border is overrun this weekend with migrants living in squalor while Bidens are at the beach. COVID is running rapid, inflation is eating away at American households, And need I mention how pissed off Macronis is? --- He recalls ambassador from Washington 'without delay'. France is one of our trusted allies.
Furious Over Sub Deal, France Recalls Ambassadors to U.S. and Australia It is the first time in the long history of the French-U.S. alliance that a top diplomat has been recalled, illustrating the depth of France’s anger.
Biden is a failure of epic proportions. Hopefully, he will step down.If you "I could care less about the past." - then why are you fixated on Afghanistan? Isn't that in the past now? Also, by "I could care less about the past." you minimize 200,000 thousand excess deaths caused by the failed, disgraced, one-term, twice impeached former president.
"As I said Trump is not president, " - And I say again, what difference does that make, he was president when he was responsible for over 200,000 needless American deaths.
"Our border is overrun this weekend" - There you go misleading us again with a false statement. Our border was NOT overrun - they were on the Mexican side of the border living in squalor, exactly where you want them.
Instead of following Trump's inhumane policy, America should be welcoming these people (after vetting them, of course, for health and criminality (just like at Ellis Island) into American society to help grow our economy.
I think one of the reasons Biden isn't doing this is because he doesn't have the resources yet to process all of these people. My solution to that is quickly get more resources. Maybe he could declare a fake national emergency and divert needed funds away from our defense like Trump did. (before y'all get riled up, spoiler alert, that was sarcasm)
Biden has a long way to go to catch up with Trump who really did fail in epic proportions.Afghanistan is not behind us. We have many American's as well as others that have been left behind. You may want to put this behind you. I don't. This is not an if come conspiracy these are people Biden has left behind, and are in danger. And I am in no way satisfied to write off the 10 civilians that were killed, 7 that were children due to our military, and the Biden administration's "mistake". I want an investigation into this "mistake".
Before Biden, we as a nation did not leave any American's behind. I am not willing to disperse that values.
Biden's inhumanity in regards to migrants has far surpassed any other president has committed.
We disagree in regard to Trump's job performance. I feel he was one of the best we have ever had at problem-solving.
"And need I mention how pissed off Macron is? " - Yep, that is true - but then you probably have inside knowledge of the details. Me, I am willing to wait until the FULL story comes out. Already Australia is saying they weren't happy with the French deal because it doesn't meet Australia's national interests as well as a nuclear powered sub does.
Can we not be fair and say that there are two factions in the Republican Party, the Trumplicans and a few who still hold to the party's pre-Trump values? But the problem here is that the real Republicans, with the exception of Liz Cheney and her few supporters, are too chicken to stand up for the party. Party members like Jim Jordan, Mitch McConnell and Marjorie Taylor Greene are the squeaky wheels who are getting the grease. But Trump and others who are claiming that the Jan. 6 rioters are being persecuted and that this so-called march Saturday is in support of them are putting out more bull and lies. The Jan. 6 rioters are not being persecuted, they are being prosecuted for breaking the law. Little things like damaging the capitol, stealing documents and items from congressional offices, threatening the lives of the Vice President and Speaker of the House, contributing to the death of a capitol police officer...and "they're being persecuted?" Gimme a break.
Are the rioters at the capital being treated differently than the summer's riots all over the country, even though there were far fewer people hurt or killed at the capital?
Undeniably, the answer is a resounding "Yes!"; no other riot has had the full force of the FBI thrown against it to find those that rioted/burned/killed. No other riot has had hundreds of people accused of wrongdoing merely for being there. No other riot has had people accused of criminal activity merely for trespassing, and the large majority of the Capital rioters are guilty of nothing more than that.
Does that make a case that the Capital rioters are being "persecuted"? That would be an opinion, but mine is again a "Yes" vote. When one group is treated differently (worse) than another for identical/similar actions then we have persecution.
Not unexpected when those feeling threatened are rich and powerful, though. And that goes up exponentially when those same rich and powerful feel they can pinch Trump at the same time they persecute rioters."no other riot has had the full force of the FBI thrown against it " - No other riot attacked the Capitol and caused an insurrection. Besides, there weren't that many actual rioters to find for any given summer riot. For those riots, your "few" actually does apply.
LOL - "No other riot has had hundreds of people accused of wrongdoing merely for being there. " - Name me one person who has been charged with anything for "just being there".
The longer the Republicans think the insurrection was simply a walk in the park, as some (even here) have characterized it, the irrelevant the Republican Party becomes in the eyes of unbrainwashed Americans.
Another nail in the Republican coffin is their support of or attendance at a rally designed to support those arrested for being part of an insurrection where police officers were violently assaulted, the Capitol invaded, elected officials threatened with harm or death, and the function of gov't brought to a halt. Acts definitely worthy of Republican support - NOT.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/politics … index.html"On Saturday, Sept 18, the Republicans are going to hold a rally (which police and DHS think will turn violent) to comfort and succor to the 600+ people arrested for violently assaulting police, invading the Capitol, making our elected representatives go into hiding to save their lives, and stopping the function of government. By definition, that is called insurrection."
"Washington law enforcement bracing for Capitol demonstrations as sparse crowd gathers early"
https://www.aol.com/news/capitol-police … 00063.html
“We came back for their insurrection 2.0,” Irwin said. “We need to have dissenting voices.”
Guess the left did show up to represent...This revelation won't help the Republicans much. GOP donors indicted for funneling Russian money into Trump's 2016 campaign.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/20/politics … index.htmlIt's surprising you would feel this outweighs the current indictment SC John Durham just announced. I just put together a thread on the indictment or should I say the Durham indictments. Most of America knew Russia Russia Russia was a Clinton hit job, but it's wonderful to see the truth coming out.
Now he has a whole TWO, and the second indictment has a lot of problems. Yet you downplay the dozens of indictments and convictions Mueller obtained.
And no, "MOST" of America doesn't know that. MOST of America thinks the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. The 30 - 35% of rabid Trump supporters does not qualify as 60+% of Americans.
You can't imagine how funny it sounds here in Russia ) And a bit discouraging. Is it really that easy to buy elections in States?
Discouraging it is. In Russia, such things are the norm, but, until Trump, in America they were not. He has hurt America in SO many ways and done very little good for us.
no way to do so here. At 2021 actually there are two semi-alive "parties" - United Russia and bad old communists with neuro-wire from each brain to the central committee. Commies lose support for years. All the others look like a show of galvanized frogs. What if someone bring a bag with money to galvanized frog? It will be a dead frog with money.
however, not sure it's better than you have.
to me the story with money granting Trump a victory looks really strange. Political system in States lives for centuries. If there was such a straightforward way to trick election - why didn't some other person use it before? If someone did it - why no one talks about this? Too much questions. So seems reality is more complex.It is not that the foreign money led to Trump winning, it didn't. It is a long standing principal, originally articulated by George Washington, that foreign influence of any kind needs to stay out of American politics. That is why foreign contributions are illegal.
It is had to compare our systems because you live in a dictatorship, albeit the kind of dictatorship that Trump wished to emulate. But it can be said with truth, Trump made (and is making) American politics much more like what Russia experiences."dictatorship" in Russia is a bit ... overestimated. Today i read article about woman, jailed due to try to bribe police officer. She wanted him to rise pursuit against her husband on political reason. They supposed become refugees in States due to this. Not that easy )
laws against foreign money had been written here for not so long, a few years ago. Looks like copy-n-paste from those on your side. A few politicians ran into real troubles after that.if so it becomes even stranger. If Russian money couldn't help Trump to won, could only make troubles - why would he get them?
It is very well proven that foreign money makes its way into Candidates' campaign coffers. However, as a rule, those that perpetuate that kind of crime are caught, and much of the time the candidate they poured cash into loses anyway.
Exsample
"Washington CNN —
Eight people, including a longtime political networker and a CEO, have been indicted on charges of funneling money illegally into Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and other political groups.
George Nader, who has for decades hobnobbed with political elites and became a key Mueller cooperator, and Allied Wallet CEO Ahmad “Andy” Khawaja are accused of sending millions to political committees and hiding Nader as its source, with Nader allegedly reporting to a Middle Eastern government on the effort.
According to Federal Election Commission records and details in the indictment, the money primarily went toward backing Clinton’s 2016 campaign efforts. Though Clinton and her affiliated campaign finance groups are unnamed in the indictment, the money primarily went to her campaign, according to a source familiar with the investigation and campaign finance records. Attorneys for the Clinton campaign, the Democratic Party, and Bill and Hillary Clinton did not respond to requests for comment on Wednesday.
The other conspirators are alleged to have been part of Khawaja’s donations scheme, which allowed him to exceed campaign finance limits, according to the indictment.
Nader, specifically, is accused of sending more than $3.5 million through Khawaja to political committees so they could gain access to then-candidate Hillary Clinton in 2016. “It was a purpose of the conspiracy for Nader and Khawaja to use their access to Candidate 1 to gain favor with, and potential financial support from, the government of Foreign Country A,” prosecutors wrote in the indictment. The contributions were disguised so Nader’s involvement was hidden, the Justice Department said.
At one point, Khawaja hosted a Clinton campaign fundraiser at his home featuring Bill Clinton because Khawaja had contributed almost $1 million in contributions to the campaign. He hosted other political events, too, according to the indictment."
CNN --- https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/04/politics … index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/13/politics … index.htmlI noticed that you conveniently left out foreign contributions to Donald Trump's 2016 campaign. Apparently two "Republican operatives", who accepted $100,000 to get a Russian a meeting with Tump kept $75,000 and "funneled $25,000 into Trump's fundraising committee...."
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2021/0 … or-scheme/
Giuliani associates "were arrested on Thursday and charged with trying to aid Ukrainian and Russian foreign nationals by secretly directing $325,000 to a pro-Trump super PAC."
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/1 … ani-044244
There are more examples of this, but I think that two are enough to get the picture. Let's be honest and present both sides.It also shows that CNN reports negative things about Democrats, which some on here claim they don't. It would be nice if Fox did the same regarding Republicans and Trumplicans. And if they did happen to mention such things, did they whitewash it?
Both my links provide the same information. It was my point to show even if a candidate has money funded from foreign countries does not sure about a win, and as a rule, those that perpetuate the crime are caught. I was responding to a specific comment.
One can see my opinion covered the two thoughts I hoped to share.
" It is very well proven that foreign money makes its way into Candidates' campaign coffers. However, as a rule, those that perpetuate that kind of crime are caught, and much of the time the candidate they poured cash into loses anyway."
(please note I said It is very well proven that foreign money makes its way into Candidates coffers) I meant no bias at all.
Simply pointing out this crime is prevalent in the US, not new, and the crime does not guaranty a win. As in the 2016 election.
My article does provide the fact both candidates had foreign money illegally funneled into their coffers. Hillery receives much more cash ( $3.5 million) than Trump in this particular case.
My point --- She did not win due to having so much more cash funneled into her coffees.
I guess one would have needed to check the origin of the comment I was referring to, to understand my reply fully.
This was the comment that I responded to. --- SOCKRATUS WROTE:
You can't imagine how funny it sounds here in Russia ) And a bit discouraging. Is it really that easy to buy elections in States?
My example just was meant to prove the illegal funds don't always work to produce a winner. To be honest when researching Trump and possibly illegal campaign funds I came up with the couple of accusations you listed, and the Mueller report, that did three years of investigations and found no problems in regards to illegal funds from Foreign nations being fueled into Trump's campaign. I did find the references you offered. But they were small amounts, and would in no way proven my point. Hillary just got a huge amount of funded cash and did not win. That was my point --- a large number of illegal funds just does not always produce a winner.
Hopefully, this clears up why I used the Nader crimes to prove my point."My point --- She did not win due to having so much more cash funneled into her coffees."
Hillary won the popular vote. It was Russian interference that helped Trump into the White House. In think in this case your Nader point is irrelevant. But I agree that the question was about whether it was easy for foreign money to infiltrate U.S. political campaigns.Yes, she did win the popular vote. So maybe all that extra cash did help her win the popular vote. Who knows...
I guess SOCKRATUS could be correct. Our US elections can be won by money.Our elections have been won, mostly, by money for a long, long time.
So you feel the more money the better the chance of a win? MizBejabbers did point out Hillary did win the popular vote. She did have a lot of money backing her. As was socketed was correct to feel our elections can be bought.
I guess we can see how we came to the mess we are in today --- it was a long time coming.There is zero doubt in my mind that a large war chest greatly increases the probability of a win. Is it a sure thing? No, but it sure increases the chances.
The issue about either side getting foreign money isn't that it helped them win anything (or get votes). Today, for presidential elections anyway, even the largest donation is a drop in the bucket and, I believe, doesn't help one way or the other. The issue about foreign donations goes back to why they were made illegal in the Constitution in the first place - foreign influence.
I think, large donations, from anywhere, is, in most cases, an attempt to buy influence in case the recipient is the winner and not to throw the election in their favor. In that since, I don't think Sockratus is right.
Where Sochratus is right, in my opinion, is just the massive amounts of money allowed in the first place, although in some cases even huge cash advantages don't help in the end.
Where foreign influence is a factor since 2016, and wasn't before, is in the realm of foreign propaganda through social media. Mueller made it clear how invasive the Russians were win trying to 1) switch how people were intending to vote or 2) stop them from voting at all. I firmly believe that if the Russians had kept their nose out of our 2016 election, Clinton would have one, it was that close - less than 100,000 votes in three critical states (states which Manafort pointed out to them by the way).
I am not so sure they had as much influence in 2020 because China had come out against Trump, as did the Iranians. Both of those nations had much bigger influence operations in 2020 than they did in 2016.If Clinton could not win with her corrupt Russiam Hoax scheme that has become very apparent due to the proof the DNC and Hillary were behind the entire mess, nothing could have pulled her across the finish line...
I truly hope the Durham investigation will show the entire plan for what it was. I mean, the Steel dossier was enough that should have proved the DNC and Hillary's planned to destroy Trump with lies.
In my view, Hillary could not have won under any circumstances.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na … story.html
https://apnews.com/article/technology-j … d92b775d98
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-usa- … KKBN1D15Y7
Over the weekend it was reported Durham would have several more indictments in the next few months.
Hopefully, he will put the entire puzzle together, and Hillary will be charged with her part in the mess the DNC and she created. Along with any that went along with the poorly planned scam."If Clinton could not win with her corrupt Russiam Hoax scheme"- Everybody, except the Right-wing, knows that investigation was the result of Republican actions. The Republican-oriented FBI started the investigation; the Republican attorney general recused himself; the Republican deputy attorney general hired the Republican Mueller. Do you see a Democrat or Clinton anywhere in that list? LOL.
"I mean, the Steel dossier was enough that should have proved the DNC and Hillary's planned to destroy Trump with lies." - [i]I am curious, which claim in the Steele Dossier was proven to be a LIE?Not sure what you mean that the Republican FBI started the investigation?
In October 2015, Fusion GPS was contracted by the conservative political website The Washington Free Beacon to provide general opposition research on Trump and other Republican presidential candidates. The Free Beacon stopped its backing in MAY 2016.
Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) hired Fusion GPS to investigate Trump, while the Free Beacon stopped its backing in May 2016.[7] In JUNE 2016, Fusion GPS subcontracted Steele's firm to compile the dossier. DNC officials denied knowing their attorney had contracted with Fusion GPS, and Steele asserted he was not aware the Clinton campaign was the recipient of his research until months after he contracted with Fusion GPS
Timeline on The investigation ---
In the months before the 2016 presidential election, the FBI was uncovering efforts by the Russian government to interfere in the election, and the FBI was trying to assess unverified allegations that Trump’s associates were aiding the Russian effort.
Very's the first piece of Hillary's plan --- It was the Department official Bruce Ohr who passed on “dossier”-linked information to the FBI. But the first recorded meeting between Ohr and the FBI came four months after the FBI launched its investigation and a full month after the FBI used previously obtained information from the “dossier” to support secret surveillance of Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.
This was the first piece of the puzzle --- last I heard Ohr is a Democrat...
WASHINGTON – Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) today released a newly declassified FBI document that indicates the Bureau misled the Senate Intelligence Committee in 2018 about the Steele dossier’s Primary Sub-source and, therefore, the reliability of the Steele dossier.
“This document clearly shows that the FBI was continuing to mislead regarding the reliability of the Steele dossier. The FBI did to the Senate Intelligence Committee what the Department of Justice and FBI had previously done to the FISA Court: mischaracterize, mislead and lie. The characterizations regarding the dossier were completely out of touch with reality in terms of what the Russian sub-source actually said to the FBI.
“What does this mean? That Congress as well as the FISA Court was lied to about the reliability of the Russian sub-source. I will be asking FBI Director Wray to provide me all the details possible about how the briefing was arranged and who provided it.
“Inspector General Horowitz’s team found this briefing document. Inspector General Horowitz and his team deserve great credit for uncovering systematic fraud at the Department of Justice surrounding the Carter Page FISA warrant. I’m also very appreciative of the Department of Justice’s release of the FBI document used to brief the Senate Intelligence Committee.”
The document includes talking points from the FBI’s briefing of the Senate Intelligence Committee in February 2018 and details the FBI’s assessment of the primary source of the information contained in the Steele dossier. This FBI briefing to Members of Congress occurred after the FBI had learned that the Steele dossier was unreliable in 2017. [Document]
Among the most misleading statements from the FBI:
The FBI told Congress that the Primary Sub-source “did not cite any significant concerns with the way his reporting was characterized in the dossier to the extent he could identify it.”
However, documents previously declassified by the Senate Judiciary Committee revealed the Primary Sub-source told the FBI that he “has no idea” where some of the language attributed to him came from or that his contacts “never mentioned” some of the information attributed to them.
The Primary Sub-source told the FBI he “did not know the origins” of other information that was supposedly from his contacts and he “did not recall” other information attributed to him or his contacts.
Further, the Primary Sub-source said that Steele used “incorrect source characterization” for one of the Primary Sub-source’s contacts. The FBI told Congress that “At a minimum, our discussions with [the Primary Sub-source] confirm that the dossier was not fabricated by Steele.”
However, as Inspector General Horowitz’s December 2019 report on Crossfire Hurricane revealed, the Primary Sub-source told the FBI that the corroboration for the dossier was “zero” and that he takes what the sources for the dossier told him with “a grain of salt.”
Moreover, the Primary Sub-source told the FBI that Steele presented some of the information in the dossier as fact reported by sub-sources when the information was really just Steele’s own “analytical conclusions” and “analytical judgments.”
The Primary Sub-source explained to the FBI that his information came from “word of mouth and hearsay” and “conversation that [he] had with friends over beers”, and that some of the information, such as allegations about Trump’s sexual activities, were statements made in “jest.
However, the FBI interviews with the Primary Sub-source revealed that there were many degrees of separation between the Primary Sub-source’s contacts and the persons quoted in the reporting and that it could have been multiple layers of hearsay upon hearsay.
For example, the Primary Sub-source stated to the FBI his contacts did not have direct access to the persons they were reporting on. Instead, the Primary Sub-source told the FBI that the information was “from someone else who may have had access.”
This declassified document and other related material may be accessed at the following link: judiciary.senate.gov/fisa-investigation.
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/ … le-dossier
https://www.wsj.com/articles/newly-decl … 1595174264
I don't intend to debate the lies of the Steel Dosier, the FBI has already done that. "The FBI was warned sections of the controversial Steele dossier could have been part of a "Russian disinformation campaign to denigrate U.S. foreign relations," according to newly declassified footnotes from a government watchdog report. ""Not sure what you mean that the Republican FBI started the investigation?" - Exactly that. The FBI began the investigation into the Trump campaign in May 2016 when Papadopoulos told an Australian diplomat that “that the Trump Campaign had received indications from the Russian government that it could assist the Campaign through the anonymous release of information that would be damaging to Hillary Clinton,”. That information was passed on to the FBI by the Australians and based on that opened up the investigation on the Trump campaign, not Trump himself. - THAT was how it started, not your conspiracy theory with the Clinton campaign.
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/06/timel … stigation/
Then we have this statement in a New Yorker investigative piece:
They [the co-founders of Fusion GPS] write that “a spy whose sources get it 70 percent right is considered to be one of the best,” and that, while reporters focussed on the most salacious details, they “tended to miss the central message,” about which they say Steele was largely correct. They note that, in his first report, in June, 2016, Steele warned that Russian election meddling was “endorsed by Putin” and “supported and directed” by him to “sow discord and disunity with the United States itself but more especially within the Transatlantic alliance”—six months before the U.S. intelligence community collectively embraced the same conclusion. Steele also was right, they argue, that “Putin wasn’t merely seeking to create a crisis of confidence in democratic elections. He was actively pulling strings to destroy Hillary Clinton and elect Donald Trump,” an assessment the U.S. intelligence community also came to accept. And they note that, as of September, 2019, U.S. officials confirmed that the C.I.A. had “a human source inside the Russian government during the campaign, who provided information that dovetailed with Steele’s reporting about Russia’s objective of electing Trump and Putin’s direct involvement in the operation.”
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-colu … mp-dossier
What is the source of this statement "Very's the first piece of Hillary's plan"?
The rest of what you published is from a very biased, very unreliable, and very untrustworthy source, Lindsey Graham - enough said about his veracity.
And finally you say this again "I don't intend to debate the lies of the Steel Dosier, " - [i]And I ask you [u]again[/b], point out the claims from the Dossier that have been proven to be false.
Recently, I relied to Sharlee saying that the refugees under the bridge were on the Mexico side. I was wrong, they are in the US and Biden is deporting them as fast as he can.
Apparently, the border patrol was was riding them down on horseback - not a good look which the head of DHS is now addressing. (Firing those agents, I hope.)What is this horseback thing? Are agents literally riding over illegals, smashing them to the ground with broken limbs, or are they simply chasing them on horseback?
If the latter, would you prefer cars or ATV's? Helicopters? Or is your concept to simply let the go and continue their illegal activities?Hey, I saw the video. The head of DHS saw the videos. Both he and I thought it was terrible. But you are a conservative so I can understand why you don't think the same.
OMG, this old fool is shipping untested, unvaccinated to a city near you. Your logic escapes common sense. It has been reported over and over, that these migrants are being slipped in without vetting or tested, or vaccinated. It is true he is deporting some, but it is inexcusable for him to be sending unvetted unvaccinated untested migrants into our cities. Cities where we have been fighting a pandemic for almost two years. We have lived under mitigation to make every attempt to curb COVID -- and this feeble man is ignoring these facts. And the science! He needs to go the sooner the better. He is so dangerous, and this is just one more incident that proves that. Not sure how anyone could find his handling of the outrageous border crisis defendable. This horrific problem has been going on for 7 months now, he has ignored it, as it will just go away.
Fire Those agents --- FIRE TGHIS PRESIDENT --
These people are breaking our laws, are warned, and ignore warnings. We have laws, the President should be supporting these laws, and sending in more help to control the problem. What he is doing has now put Americans in danger of increasing cases of COVID, and possibly more closures, more overflowing hospitals that are already having problems finding beds. This may be fine with you ... I don't think the majority of Americans who have been busting ass to get rid of COVID would come close to agreeing with you. Glad I can say I did not vote for this flawed president.
I Mitigated, I took a vaccine to follow the best science could offer us. Biden has dismissed all common sense as well as science and made the decision (once again another lawed decision) to put migrants over ME, and all Americans. This is not acceptable. It is being reported by the majority of the media, he is not testing or vaccinating migrants. And he has the audacity to give a speech at the UN, and claim how he is working to stop the spread of COVID. IMO, This man is a liar, and a none caring human being, that does not have a fully functioning brain.
However, you have a right to your opinion.
Biden orders most US workers get vaxxed — but not illegal border crossers
https://nypost.com/2021/09/10/biden-won … d-vaccine/
CDC---The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced Monday it would continue to prohibit the entry of migrants through Mexico or Canada under Title 42 due to “a serious danger of the introduction of COVID-19 into the United States.” Unaccompanied children are exempted from the order, and the CDC will review the health risks every 60 days to determine if it is still necessary. https://abcnews4.com/news/nation-world/ … sions-rise
No, migrants in immigrant detention facilities are not required to get the COVID-19 vaccineOMG Sharlee, I see that you are quoting sources for your covid post, but the statement about immigrants being turned loose without covid testing is just false. I wouldn't want to submit a source either if it was Tucker Carlson. This is a reliable source FactCheck that tells that the original source was disseminating false information:
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/02/biden … he-border/And now families are blaming Calrson for their father's Covid death. Hopefully, they will sue him.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/was … 26821.html
I have to wonder how many people are dead because they believed Carlson's misinformation campaign?The conversation was about the latest Haitians that were under the bridge. They were not being tested or receiving vaccines.
Q The congregation under the bridge — the congregating there — just mentioning COVID — what is the situation there? I know that the crowd has been dispersed. Do we know who has tested positive? If people got sick, any kind of symptoms among this group of 15,000, you said?
SECRETARY MAYORKAS: Yeah, so, we did not — we do not te- — we did not test that population of individuals. We do not know — I do not know, I should say, if I may be perfectly accurate — I do not know whether anyone was sick with COVID.
We certainly had some individuals get sick, not specifically with COVID, to my knowledge, and we addressed their illnesses. In fact, we set up medical tents that had a certain standard of ability to address medical needs.
It is — it was ho- — it’s hot in Del Rio, Texas. We had cases of dehydration. We had other situations. And that is precisely why we surged one hundred — approximately 150 medical professionals to address the medical needs of that population. That is why we set up medical facilities with the appropriate equipment to address their medical needs.
And I must say, what I saw of the Border Patrol and other personnel was, quite frankly, heroic. They took — this is not their customary obligations, and yet they took great pride in addressing the needs of the people.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo … r-24-2021/"The conversation was about the latest Haitians that were under the bridge. They were not being tested or receiving vaccines." - I have to disagree., you previously said - SHARLEE01 WROTE:
OMG, this old fool is shipping untested, unvaccinated to a city near you. - The conversation was about the 12,000 Haitians that were processed and released to relatives in the US not being tested or forced to be vaccinated (since that is the only way those who didn't want a vaccine would get one). As MizBejabbers said, that claim is false. (BTW, did you ever call Trump and old fool? He fits the bill to a 'T' while Biden doesn't fit the "fool" part at all.)I believe Mayorkis was referring to the time while they were under the bridge and that they did not test them while they were there. Once moved to be processed for asylum claims, they were tested before being released to relatives or other sponsors.
The medical tents are being referred to at the site at the bridge. The sources I provided note that at the processing centers, prior to being released, they did get tested.
Not that some will feel any better that brown people get to be let in to our country to make legal asylum claims under current our, as well as international, laws.Actually, the conversation and my comment were bout the Haitians under the bridge that was being released into the country unvaccinated Here is the very beginning of our conversation on Bidenville... https://www.foxnews.com/politics/covid- … nts-border
Actually, Biden not until Aug. even considered offering the Border migrants vaccines.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/covid- … nts-border
Not sure where you got the idea migrants were being tested if not ill or vaccinated?
"WASHINGTON — White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki on Friday confirmed that the government isn’t requiring COVID-19 vaccines for people who illegally cross the US-Mexico border — despite President Biden’s new vaccine mandates for about two-thirds of US workers."
Migrants are not required to be vaccinated at the border and are tested if ill. https://nypost.com/2021/09/10/biden-won … d-vaccine/
https://www.yahoo.com/now/biden-doesnt- … 00814.html
The migrants that were released were not tested or vaccinated. I offered SECRETARY MAYORKAS own words to prove my statement
Q The congregation under the bridge — the congregating there — just mentioning COVID — what is the situation there? I know that the crowd has been dispersed. Do we know who has tested positive? If people got sick, any kind of symptoms among this group of 15,000, you said?
SECRETARY MAYORKAS: Yeah, so, we did not — we do not te- — we did not test that population of individuals. We do not know — I do not know, I should say, if I may be perfectly accurate — I do not know whether anyone was sick with COVID.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press briefings/2021/09/24/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-jen-psaki-and-secretary-of-homeland-security-alejandro-mayorkas-september-24-2021/
Could you offer a current source where you got the idea migrants are being vaccinated?"ctually, the conversation and my comment " - Sorry, Sharlee, your statement was very clear that you were talking about untested (which I noticed you omitted this time around) and unvaccinated being "released to a city near you".
"...migrants are being vaccinated?" - It depends on whether you mean forcibly "being vaccinated" against their will, in which case there is no source because I haven't claimed it. If you mean being offered a vaccination, then both Valeant and I have provided you those sources at least twice.
"Actually, Biden not until Aug. even considered offering the Border migrants vaccines." - Yes, we have been over that, then after August the border patrol was offering vaccines. What is your point? (and thanks for providing one of the sources that says Biden IS providing vaccines)
You forget. YOUR point was that Biden was releasing untested and unvaccinated "into a city near you" (your words, not mine).and our point is that is FALSE. They ARE tested before being released and they ARE OFFERED a vaccine before being released. What is it that you don't understand about that FACT?"They ARE tested before being released and they ARE OFFERED a vaccine before being released. What is it that you don't understand about that FACT?"
I have not been able to find any information on migrants being tested other than if they were ill showing symptoms. And the migrants are not being made to take the Vaccine as I pointed out. Many here in the US are being mandated to take the vaccine.
New
https://www.uscis.gov/newsroom/alerts/c … aminations --- COVID-19 Vaccination Required for Immigration Medical Examinations
Which will go into effect as of Oct 1, 2021.You really should read the links we provide. I provided this one previously.
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/po … 116347002/Your article makes it very clear that HLS is leaving testings up to the local goverments. Which it has been reported most do not have the tests or the set up to test the migrants entering their cities and states. At best it is up to an individual migrant to seek a test or a vaccination site.
I am not in agreement with letting these people in without proof of vaccine and testing. I offered you a link that as of Oct 1 2021 this will be done...
From your article --- "Migrants who are not being tested
It’s unclear how many migrants may be bypassing COVID testing screens as they wind their way through the immigration system and are released by Border Patrol. But the El Paso Times revealed Thursday one such example in Laredo.
The Times reported about an agreement between Border Patrol and the city of Laredo in which migrants released by the agency would be put on buses bound for Austin, Dallas and Houston WITHOUT BEING TESTED. A city spokesperson told the Times that the agreement was a result of strained testing capacity. "
Biden has been president for over 8 months, and the migrants have been left to make the decision to take tests and be vaccinated as they see fit.
I have offered you actual Government sites that offered information on what is being done in regard to testing.
Your very article goes along with the Government rules.Sighhh, I guess I need to read the article for you.
Rather, this fact check focuses on Paxton’s claim that the administration is “not even testing these people” being released into the U.S. We found that while there are testing protocols in place, - Your claim is there are not because you say Biden is "not even testing these people" - that is a false statement. What having "testing protocols in place" means it that the Biden administration are testing migrants.
Now you seem to be backtracking and complaining on HOW the Biden administration is actually getting migrants tested.
"migrants have been left to make the decision to take tests and be vaccinated as they see fit." - I thought you believed in civil liberties and here you are telling Biden to mandate vaccines (which I agree with, btw). Interesting.
Your claim also was that Biden is letting ALL the migrants threw without being tested - ON PURPOSE. It should be obvious that is not the Biden position and that no system works 100%. Sometimes things are overcome by events out of their control.
It is sort of like saying, after a tornado comes by and destroys your house, that it is your fault that tornado came by and I get to blame you for not taking better care of your houseI read the article, I actually offed the article in one of my comments here at HP's.
I have read the article, I also read the information that was provided by the Federal Government, and offered you that link. The FEDERAL Government is not testing all migrants, as they enter, they are screening and testing only those with symptoms.
This quote is from the link you offered
Migrants who are being tested
COVID-19 testing protocols have existed at the border under both the present and former administrations. Testing is done via a patchwork of federal agencies, local governments, organizations and contractors at various stages of the immigration process.
"In April, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security told PolitiFact that it works with state authorities, local authorities and non-governmental organizations to ensure that “100% of noncitizens” are tested for COVID-19 "at some point during their immigration journey." The agency also has told PolitiFact that a negative coronavirus test is required by the federal government before entry to the U.S."
Testing has been left up to local Governments as I have well proved.
Covid on the Border: Migrants Aren’t Tested on Arrival in U.S.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/us/c … sting.html
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo … r-24-2021/
Again my comment where I started migrants were left to lose into the country we were discussing The migrates from under the bridge. I am fully aware that the Government has asked local city and state Governments to test migrants as they entered their cities. I am also aware many have stated they do not have those abilities and are not testing.
Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas, September 24, 2021 --- I would think this proves the Bidenville migrants were not tested and they were released into the country.
"Q The congregation under the bridge — the congregating there — just mentioning COVID — what is the situation there? I know that the crowd has been dispersed. Do we know who has tested positive? If people got sick, any kind of symptoms among this group of 15,000, you said?
SECRETARY MAYORKAS: Yeah, so, we did not — we do not te- — we did not test that population of individuals. We do not know — I do not know, I should say, if I may be perfectly accurate — I do not know whether anyone was sick with COVID.
We certainly had some individuals get sick, not specifically with COVID, to my knowledge, and we addressed their illnesses. In fact, we set up medical tents that had a certain standard of ability to address medical needs.?"
Gov. Greg Abbott rejects aid from Biden administration in dispute over coronavirus testing for migrants
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/04 … s-testing/
https://www.yahoo.com/now/border-patrol … 00361.html
https://www.borderreport.com/hot-topics … in-austin/
https://nypost.com/2021/08/12/migrants- … vid-tests/
They are also not vaccinating migrants leaving that up to city and state Governments...Your times articles is five months old. And, again, Mayorkis was saying those at the camp under the bridge had not been tested. As soon as they are moved, they are tested.
Facts, as well as the ability to understand them, matter.And again that was the initial subject..Here is the comment that started the conversation on the Bidneville residents not being tested or vaccinated... Not ECO claimed the Bidenville migrants were not under a bridge in America, but Mexico... This is just not factual.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/352 … ost4203842
Pages later he corrected his statement on regards to Bidenville being in Mexico...
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/352 … ost4204135
Again my response in regard to the migrant's under the Del Rio Bridge.
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/352 … ost4204144
Myaorkis admitted they were released into the US and were not tested ...
I am over this --- believe whatever suits your needs. I will stick with Myaorkis's own words.
" Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas, September 24, 2021 --- I would think this proves the Bidenville migrants were not tested and they were released into the country.
"Q The congregation under the bridge — the congregating there — just mentioning COVID — what is the situation there? I know that the crowd has been dispersed. Do we know who has tested positive? If people got sick, any kind of symptoms among this group of 15,000, you said?
SECRETARY MAYORKAS: Yeah, so, we did not — we do not te- — we did not test that population of individuals. We do not know — I do not know, I should say, if I may be perfectly accurate — I do not know whether anyone was sick with COVID.
We certainly had some individuals get sick, not specifically with COVID, to my knowledge, and we addressed their illnesses. In fact, we set up medical tents that had a certain standard of ability to address medical needs.?"What a despicable person one must be to refer to the Haitian humanitarian crisis as 'Bidenville.'
Your lack of understanding that the medical tents were at the migrant camp, and that immigrants were tested once moved, prior to being released, is, as usual, your own ability to omit facts to believe some warped reality that gets you all angry for no reason. Some day, it's our hope that you can process all the information available to come to conclusions.Bienville was meant to be a sarcastic description I chose to use.--- the underside of a bridge. An actual plot of ground. I named that refers to the man that in my view is responsible for the problem I see at our border. I certainly did not make mention of the Haitian people that were under that bridge. My anger at the situation is solely with Biden, and my statement clearly is directed at him. I made no mentions in regards to the Haitians. or their plight.
The migrants would be tested at the discretion of city and state governments.
I have certainly not exhibited anger. I simply said, belief what you please.
I well proved my point, and how I came to it.
Not sure why you speck of you all, and our hopes --- this is laughable there are so few that post here. This is a bit funny... And I find it very odd you feel speak for others here at HP.
I for one will leave you to your beliefs... And for the record, I will stick with my sources.
You actually have not offered any that prove migrants are being tested or vaccinated. We have agreed on the cities and states are responsible for testing, unfortunately, Texas has claimed they do not have the facilities to comply with the Government's wishes. What I have found migrants are not being regularly tested, and are not required to be vaccinated.I do not care about your motivations for the usage, it's still distasteful to turn someone else's humanitarian plight into your partisan insults. You didn't have to mention the Haitians, we all know who you were referring to.
I'm pretty sure I'm among many others here who continually try and get you to recognize other sources outside of your far-right media bubble to help you realize you are spewing ridiculous claims.
As for the testing, I have offered plenty of sourcing that you continue to ignore. Just as those that still believe the big lie do not understand that the audit results in Arizona did not show any proof of actual fraud. You Trumpers continue to live in an alternate reality just so you can make your fabricated claims of doom and gloom. It'd be sad if it hadn't also become a danger to the country.I see HP has put the thread on the Arizona recount backup... Very pleased to see they reconsidered. The report is very interesting and very well presented.
So, perhaps you might take this comment to that thread. -- "Just as those that still believe the big lie do not understand that the audit results in Arizona did not show any proof of actual fraud"
I have given my opinion on the subject, I am done going in circles with someone that is unwilling to accept the facts I presented. And no you have not supplied any sources to prove your point. Although I am giving you the last word. I am going to be polite and step away from this conversation. It's clear we don't agree., and I prefer to converse with those that keep it civil, keep on subject.Actually, they did not put the thread back up. Like you, Mike spams the site by making multiple threads pertaining to similar ideas. People just felt the need to comment one of his multiple threads on the same topic. I fully expect HP to shut that one down too since its claims are not based in any reality that exists.
People? LOL So where is the thread YOU posted that claimed HP took down Mikes's thread? I posted a comment on your thread... Did HP take your thread down?
Closed: https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/352 … -democrats
And apparently HP did decide to take down my forum post noting they closed Mike's conspiracy theory laden thread about election fraud.Interesting, it is there to read, but no replies allowed. I didn't know HP had the balls.
I have checked this thread carefully you did not post any link in regard to offering proof migrants are tested and vaccinated before being released into other states as you claimed to have done. You certainly offered up lots of words... But no proof, no sources at all...
We've been talking about this issue for the past week, likely in multiple threads. And I have certainly posted links to articles noting that when Immigrants arrive at processing centers, they get tested before being released. I cannot help your memory loss about what I have definitely posted to disprove your false claims.
Nor can you prove that migrants are being tested or vaccinated.
CBP - March 2021 guidance - Migrants are required to go through a staging and COVID-19 testing process before entry. That is CBP's policy.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MIGRANTS ARE STOPPED AT THE BORDER?
It varies, but most single adults are turned away, while unaccompanied children and some families are admitted to pursue asylum claims. This practice is in keeping with the Biden administration’s continued use of Title 42, a public health rule adopted by the Trump administration at the start of the pandemic.
ARE MIGRANTS WHO ARE NOT EXPELLED TESTED FOR COVID-19?
Generally, yes. CBP, the agency that first takes migrants into custody, says they are given masks and referred to local health care providers for testing and treatment if they have symptoms.
From there, testing protocols can vary depending on which federal agency is involved. Most single adults and some families are transferred to Immigration and Customs Enforcement custody, where they all take COVID-19 tests.
Further -
All new arrivals are separated from the general population for 14 days and isolated if they test positive. Unaccompanied children are also tested before they are transferred to Health and Human Services Department facilities for minors, and then are given ongoing tests.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-he … 3a7192611bSame link I provided a few days ago...
https://www.fox26houston.com/news/hundr … in-houston
'Each migrant arriving to the shelter in Houston is immediately tested for COVID-19. The results take only minutes to complete. Then, they’re given a place to eat and sleep.'
Valeant, it is the Conservative/Trumpian way to belittle other people.
You mean as in "What a despicable person one must be..."? Or did you refer to "Some day, it's our hope that you can process all the information available to come to conclusions."? Or possibly "...your own ability to omit facts to believe some warped reality..."?
No, we are talking about things like Trump flailing his arms making fun of a handicapped reporter.
All of your examples had a condition attached, Trump was just being himself - mean.
" Not ECO claimed the Bidenville migrants were not under a bridge in America, but Mexico... This is just not factual." - To which I later corrected when I found out I was wrong.
Why haven't you submitted a correction to your claim that the the border patrol doesn't test or vaccinate, when asked, migrants when you have been given tons of evidence to the contrary?I have more than proved my point --- The border patrol test those with symptoms, otherwise, it is left up to local governments such as charity shelters that offer a bed for a day or two... I am certainly not retracting my statements I have given ample sources to prove my opinion.
"Each migrant arriving to the shelter in Houston is immediately tested for COVID-19. The results take only minutes to complete. Then, they’re given a place to eat and sleep.
The buses are filled with Haitian migrants transported from Del Rio, TX. Over the weekend, roughly 15,000 migrants were taking shelter there under a bridge."
AS I said migrants are not tested at the border. It is up to the state and cities, not the Federal government to test migrants. The Texas Governor will not take that responsibility due to not having the capability to comply.
Many are just released and enter the US with a document that they are in the US waiting for a court date. They have no need for shelter and just travel to their destination.
Migrants are not rested at the BORDER unless ill or admit to COVID symptoms. They are not vaccinated either...
That again is up to local governments to direct the migrant to a center to get a vaccine if they want one.
I offered you the link to Myorkis admitting the people from under the bridge were not being tested.
This article is informative and will alert you to the fact many are not tested and just released on their own to seek testing.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-he … 3a7192611b
Politifact --- IF YOUR TIME IS SHORT
Immigration authorities said they are working with state and local authorities and non-governmental organizations to make sure that all migrants are tested for COVID-19 “at some point during their immigration journey.”
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021 … rn-border/
Federal health officials said children at emergency influx facilities are tested for COVID-19 every three days.
The exact positivity rate among migrants is unknown. There are different categories of migrants being tested at different times and by varying groups across the border. The figures are likely to fluctuate, too.
The lack of vaccine requirements for illegal migrants is not new, as, on Sept. 10, Psaki confirmed the government would not require them, despite President Biden’s order requiring roughly two-thirds of US workers to be vaccinated. At the time, she did not elaborate on why migrants wouldn’t be subject to the same rules as US workers. https://nypost.com/2021/09/20/wh-defend … -migrants/
At any rate, I shared my opinion and offered valid sources. we can agree to disagree."I have more than proved my point " - Sorry, you haven't even come close.
You have been given plenty of evidence that the gov't does test most migrants before they are released. You just refuse, for some unknown reason, to believe those sources. Everything you show simply highlights the relatively few migrants that fall through the cracks.Migrants are not required or mandated to be vaccinated.
Sept 21, 2021 --- Soruce
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/veri … 86c621fe95
https://www.yahoo.com/now/biden-doesnt- … 00814.html
I note you have still not provided a concert source that gives a Government rule or policy that all migrants are tested and vaccinated.
I have offered several that prove there is no such policy.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arizona-su … -mandates/
OFFERED...AS I HAVE CLAIMED. Those that don't choose the vaccine are released without being vaccinated --- Into as I said a town near you. I have not found stats on how many chose to be vaccinated.
As I also have claimed over these many pages --- The migrants are tested if ill or admit to symptoms. Otherwise, they are taken to shelters, where it is a fact some will test all, some won't due to not having the sheer capacity to test.
This administration should not be leaving it up to shelters and local Governments to test and vaccinate... Our Federal Government has the authority to mandate the vaccine as many other vaccines are mandated.
MY OPINION--- this administration should have immediately mandated COVID vaccine if one wanted to enter the Country Here is what I have needed to do when returning from Mexico by air. I have needed to comply with these policies. ..
CDC -- Before you arrive in the United States:
All air passengers coming to the United States, including U.S. citizens and fully vaccinated people, are required to have a negative COVID-19 test result no more than 3 days before travel or documentation of recovery from COVID-19 in the past 3 months before they board a flight to the United States.
This administration needs to use this policy for those coming in illegally.
I expect my Government to make common-sense decisions. IMO This administration clearly does not...Your own source:
'ICE says it offers COVID-19 vaccines to all individuals detained in its detention centers and encourages them to take the vaccine.'
So migrants have access to vaccines in the same manner that US citizens do.
And let us know when migrants begin taking federal jobs or work in large companies that require a vaccine. Comparing apples to oranges.
And as long as we're talking about ICE:
https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/cou … ion-center
There are many other links I saw where courts have ordered ICE to do testing.
"OMG, this old fool is shipping untested, unvaccinated to a city near you." - OMG, you are making things up again with no foundation what so ever
I offered several sources to back up my comment. I am not willing to keep repeating those links. It has been well-reported Migrants are not repeat not being vaccinated or tested.
No, you didn't sense this JUST happened. As to your PREVIOUS claim that Biden was doing that, I clearly debunked t with reliable sources that says before any migrant gets out of border patrol custody, they have been tested and lately offered a vaccination Previously, they told the migrants where they could get a vaccine. Bottom line - either your sources are lying to you or you are misinterpreting what they say - let me be clear " shipping untested, unvaccinated to a city near you" is a LIE
Another reason the Republican Party is heading toward the trash bin of history. During the Trump era, they are responsible for 27.5% (over a quarter) of the current national debt. And now they are refusing to raise the debt limit to pay for their huge increases.
Perhaps they are looking towards the Democrat spending bill - I believe the biggest in the history of the world - and hoping to put it off?
And that 27.5% was due to a once in a 100-year pandemic. It was not to push socialist freebies. The Republicans are the only ones that will keep the US solvent. Thank God we have their sturdy resolute.
Here is a great chart that gives the stats per year on the National debt and its growth per year. Trump was doing very well until COVID. Now Obama's stats from year to year he had a pretty sizable increase in spending.
https://www.macrotrends.net/2496/nation … th-by-year
Don't blame Clinton. He balanced the budget. Look who came after him with his 20 year war that everybody is bitchin' about Biden getting us out of.
Did not intend to blame anyone only point out information to ECO., in a way that just showed facts. He is very good with stats and I had hoped he would consider the chart as factual. A more polite way to pointed out Obama raised the debt by 50% in this time in office. This chart gave a good representation of the National debt from the 1980s on.
Trump certainly raised the debt, however, it was "mainly" due to a huge crisis, just as Obama spent due to a crisis.
ECO frequently dwells on what he feels are mistakes Trump made. I took this opportunity to bring up show a chart that gave a good representation of how debt's actual growth. and compare the debt Obama left to that of Trump. Please note when ECO offered his comment in regard to the Trump debt, he did not give any account of why Trump's debt was accumulated.
This is the comment that prompted me to post the chart. ---
"MY ESOTERIC WROTE:
Another reason the Republican Party is heading toward the trash bin of history. During the Trump era, they are responsible for 27.5% (over a quarter) of the current national debt. And now they are refusing to raise the debt limit to pay for their huge increases."
Comically, Obama raised the debt by 50% - given 8 years rather than 4 it is nearly identical to what Trump did. Of course, in his first term Obama had the recession as an excuse (just as Trump did the pandemic), but in the second term the rise was even steeper for Obama.
But, oddly enough, that wasn't mentioned. Just Trump's spending.'Of course, in his first term Obama had the recession as an excuse (just as Trump did the pandemic), but in the second term the rise was even steeper for Obama.'
Obama Deficits:
First Term:
2010 deficit: just under $1.3 trillion
2011 deficit: $1.3 trillion
2012 deficit: $1.1 trillion
2013 deficit: $680 billion
Second term:
2014: $483 billion
2015: $439 billion
2016: $587 billion
2017: $665 billion
Trump
2018: $779 billion
2019: $984 billion
2020: w/o Covid $1.08 trillion ($3.7 w/Covid)
2021: w/o Covid $966 trillion ($3.4 w/Covid)
Trump had the third highest deficits in history behind Roosevelt and Bush's multiple wars. His final year was the only year slated for reduction, but the disastrous response to Covid ruined that. Trump was given a healthy economy and then ran huge deficits. One could make the case that any economic success was due to putting the country into massive debt.I am comical, I really don't know why ECO would even need to bring up the debt problem. It did really become a greater problem under Obama. I give Trump some slack due to being hit with a pandemic.
"And that 27.5% was due to a once in a 100-year pandemic." - Does this mean you are giving Obama a pass on the debt increase during his term due to the Great 2008 Recession? Somehow, I don't think you will. But, that said, sorry, at least a third of that 27.5% was due to Trump's tax scam while zero percent of Obama's increase was due to non-recession related policies.
"The Republicans are the only ones that will keep the US solvent. " - You really should read my book about Recessions. If you did, you would learn conservative economic theory was absolutely terrible for America.
FACT 1: Between 1785 and 1933, 148 years, there was about 35 recessions, depressions, and panics. That averages out to 1 downturn every 4.2 years!!. It is true that a few of those downturns were not related to conservative economic theory but to other outside influences instead. The point is, none of them were due to liberal economic theory. Why?
FACT 2: Liberal economic theory simply didn't exist during those 148 years, only conservative economic theory
FACT 3: The only real examples of liberal ideas is the attempts to establish a central bank: that happened twice, each time conservatives (who were Democrats then, Republicans today) let their charters lapse. (Each bank, when established, helped get America out of a major depression.)
FACT 4: Liberal economics began with FDR pulling us out of the Great 1929 Depression.
FACT 5: Between 1940 and 2007, 68 years, there were 11 recessions (1 every 6.2 years)
FACT 6: Between 2008 and today, where conservative economic theory once again dominated, there have been 2 almost depressions
FACT 7a: Of the 35 economic downturns before 1940, 33 were Major and only 8 were NOT the result of conservative fiscal policy.
FACT 7b: Of the 11 recessions between 1940 and 2007, one was Major (1945 after WW II) and 7 were not the result of liberal fiscal policy.
FACT 7c: Of the 2 recessions after 2007, both were Major and one was not caused by conservative fiscal policy.
[i]Those are just some of the facts from my book to shine a bright light on how devastating conservative economic policy was to America, It certainly doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why that is so."And that 27.5% was due to a once in a 100-year pandemic." - Does this mean you are giving Obama a pass on the debt increase during his term due to the Great 2008 Recession? "
This statement is clearly hypocritical.... your statement --- MY ESOTERIC WROTE:
"Another reason the Republican Party is heading toward the trash bin of history. During the Trump era, they are responsible for 27.5% (over a quarter) of the current national debt. And now they are refusing to raise the debt limit to pay for their huge increases."
Did you Does this mean you are giving Trump a pass on the debt increase during his term due to the Great PANDEMIC? You did not now did you?
Once again your bias has done you in. I simply added a chart that shows the bottom line, without any explanation why Obama how Obama came to have such a large debt. Just as you did with your comment, I presented a bottom line, a chart.
At this point, I feel if the Republicans don't stop the Democrats spending spree the country will ultimately fail. That's my opinion.
My God, you may not realize it, but in my view, our past does not apply at this point. We have a bunch of heat I consider idiots in Congress as well as a president that does not have the ability to Governen due to his lack of cognitive skills. We at this point in history have a perfect storm to bring America to its knees.
All your facts are fine, but they in no way pertain to what we are dealing with at this time. Biden has the country spinning out of control, and we have some that can't see that fact...
So all your facts come to a deaf ear.
(Most of the Obama debt was added in his last three years.)
Correction Obama's debt was added in his first three years. --- as the chart posted indicated.Most of the Obama debt was not added in his last three years. That is a lie. Most was added in his first three as I noted above with each year's deficit total.
Second, the Democrats' spending bills have provisions for actual funding. The reason Trump's tax cuts did not pay themselves was because they were grounded in the fantasy of trickle down economics - that some mystery future growth would happen due to a new change in the rich actually spending the money they accrue instead of hoarding it.
Third, as noted above, Trump's deficit grew in each of his first three years from $779 billion to $984 billion to over a trillion - even before adding in any Covid money. All while inheriting a very healthy economy that had seen record job growth. It's serious hypocrisy to ignore so much spending during a Trump term, then find Financial Jesus when a democrat is in the White House.All your opinion... Ya can't grow if you become a risk to loan too... I don't support spending money when one is already way over their head. I also don't support an abundance of social programs. For so many reasons. Poor begets poor.
I applauded the rich, and if we did not have their ingenuity we would be far less a country. I am not one for treating the rich any differently than the poor. (Blunt but that's my truth).
Typo --- I meant to indicate Obama accumulated the bulk of debt in the first three years as my chart indicated.Not my opinion, the official stats from the government sites, not some far-right organization like the Heritage Foundation. So I will call out your misinformation such as 'the most debt was added in Obama's last three years.' That's just not true according to official government data.
And again, the Democratic bills do not raise taxes beyond what the rich were already paying while being allowed to be prosperous previously. Those taxes will pay for infrastructure, child care, and care of seniors. The rich are getting rich because middle class wages have stagnated while the rich have increased their percentage of corporate profits - that is a fact.As I said I realize I had a typo. I presented a chart to show a non-bias approach. What I said in regard to Obama's debt was --- "Trump was doing very well until COVID. Now Obama's stats from year to year he had a pretty sizable increase in spending."
I am a capitalist, due to witnessing that the system has made America so successful financially, and it offers wonderful opportunities to our citizens to thrive financially. Our economic and political system of trade and industry has done us well. I prefer this trade and industry be controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by Government.Trump was not doing well before Covid. Trump cleared the trillion dollar deficit mark prior to Covid, all with a healthy economy. Obama's deficit levels did rise in his final two years, but they were still only two-thirds of Trump's debt level. So while you falsely claim Trump was doing well, Obama had a third less deficit spending and you're critical of that. Your latest partisan hackery.
News flash - Democrats are Capitalists too. Perhaps a history lesson of the tax rates that our capitalistic country has had over the years would help you understand that capitalism can exist with different levels of taxes. Were we not a capitalistic country in the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's when the tax rates on single filers was as high as 91?
https://taxfoundation.org/historical-in … -brackets/Are you a "pure" capitalist or a "regulated" capitalist. One works, the other fails (mainly because it has a short half-life)?
Must have missed your comment...
I believe in an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society. I am totally against government overreach.
I appreciate the human initiative that promotes one to strive, to build, to earn, and to Govern their own spoils...But that doesn't answer my question. Do you believe in regulated capitalism (the only kind that works well)?
I personally have never spoken to anyone, or heard anyone, promote unregulated commerce.
On the other hand I have listened as others promote near total socialism, marxism and communism - the opposite of a good capitalism. Some, unfortunately, are members of our government.Not from any who is speaking for any main stream American political party you haven't.
Maybe you are listening people from the American Communist Party.
Since you didn't absolve Obama of the debt increase under his watch, I won't for Trump either. Therefore my statement stands that "Another reason the Republican Party is heading toward the trash bin of history. During the Trump era, they are responsible for 27.5% (over a quarter) of the current national debt. And now they are refusing to raise the debt limit to pay for their huge increases"
I have noticed that when historic facts work against you, you claim the past doesn't matter (which means you will always repeat your mistakes). But when history does support your point of view, you shout it to the rooftops.
Nevertheless, your claim was that conservative economics work. What I proved to you is that conservative economics have NEVER worked more than 6 years in a row. Then it fails and we have a major recession, depression, or panic. That is just a fact.
As to the rest of your comments, that is just your BDS showing through - none of it is true.
The most effective tactic Trump is using to kill the Republican Party is the Big Lie. Republican legislatures took the bait and passed (or still are trying to pass) laws designed to suppress the Democratic vote. But like Wile E. Coyote, they are probably shooting themselves in the foot trying to capture the Roadrunner.
As usual, Republicans don't think before they act to consider all possible outcomes of their actions. In the case of voter suppression, in the ironic guise of making elections more fair, they didn't consider:
* It is morally wrong, turning off voters who are legitimately on the fence.
* They anger and mobilize Democrats to push through all of the obstacles.
* They make it more difficult for rural white voters to vote
* Like what with the two Senate elections in GA, the talk of voter fraud will discourage Republicans from voting in what they are told is a rigged election
* They lead to the election of less competent leaders who do not respond to the needs of all of the constituents
* They turn off young white voters
* They suppress the political power of lower and middle class whites.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/25/politics … index.html"The most effective tactic Trump is using to kill the Republican Party is the Big Lie."
A new thought on this the media is now saying is that the Big Lie may be killing the next election. People will no longer trust the election process no matter how fair and honest it is run. I don't like their doomsday predictions, but they may have a valid point. Trump is using German tactic of "if you repeat the lie long enough, people will believe it" to destroy our constitutional way of life. Why are we letting him get away with this? His supporters speak of all the "wonderful things" he's done for this country, but this big lie wipes out any little good he may have done."People will no longer trust the election process no matter how fair and honest it is run. " - And this is exactly why it is true when people say Trump is destroying American democracy
And now crazy Trump is claiming he "won" the sham, fake AZ so-called "audit" The dude is simply loony-tunes. Yet the Trump supporters here will continue to believe and support him. SAD.
Personally, I think that the Big Lie has been around for a long time. We have always had election fraud, ranging from gerrymandering to illegal votes to aid from foreign countries to rules that allow a party candidate to be chosen not by vote but by the will of the party VIP's to actual intimidation at the polls.
Trump (mostly; some actually believe he won the last election) brought that to the surface and a great many people have become a lot more concerned about it. Unfortunately, it is mostly exhibited against everyone else, never against the party of choice, who would never (but always do) participate in the same wrong activity."Personally, I think that the Big Lie has been around for a long time. " - Yes, since June 2020
" We have always had election fraud, ranging from gerrymandering ..." - Yes, we have always had those things but they have never, with the possible exception of the 2016 election, even come close to changing the outcome of a national election.
"some actually believe he won the last election" - - [i]That "some" is the majority of Republicans!!
The rest just minimizes what Trump and his minions are actually doing. They are calling the election "rigged". They are not saying there was a little inconsequential fraud. NO, they are saying there was MASSIVE fraud that threw the election to Biden, the Big Lie, that is why he is pushing these Sham so-called "audits".
I simply don't understand why you minimize and whitewash what Trump is doing.""some actually believe he won the last election" - - [i]That "some" is the majority of Republicans!!"
I don't know a single person that believes that. It is just another gross exaggeration from the Trump haters. Which is why I said that the Big Lie (no voter fraud) has been around for a long time - liberals typically claim there is none even when shown it happening.
The only "rigged" election I'm aware of was that of Hillary Clinton in the Democrat primaries. The rest often have at least some fraud (although I will agree that some local elections are indeed rigged) but insufficient to affect the final results.
The "they" that you refer to are a fringe element in the country, just as those that claim they are "the majority of Republicans" are. Just another radical, fringe element, of which we have plenty.
"I simply don't understand why you minimize and whitewash what Trump is doing."
Fair enough - I don't understand why you are so engrossed with the actions of a past President and why you expend so much effort trying to divide the country with accusations few will believe. We have far too much of that now, and certainly need no more."I don't know a single person that believes that. " - Then you don't know very many people. Poll after poll after poll show between
53% of Rs think Trump is the legitimate president.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/53-rep … 021-05-24/
Here 66% of Republicans think the election was stolen and therefore Trump should be president.
https://news.yahoo.com/poll-two-thirds- … 34695.html
"I don't understand why you are so engrossed with t" - [i]Because this former president is trying very hard to overthrow the 2020 election - and America itself. Because he and his supporters are attempting to, and almost have, destroyed American democracy. Since you aren't fighting Trump over this, you must be supporting his goals.
To make a point, I occasionally write that some conservatives would support a return to slavery. Well, that apparently is true as evidenced by this story where White kids, of conservative parents, are circulating a slavery petition at one Missouri school. This is what conservatism is doing to our children, disgusting.
Another reason why the Republican Party (who originally came into being to get rid of slavery) has disappeared.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/09/us/kansa … index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/09/us/kansa … index.html
Plenty of people get arrested for non-violent offenses. To think that people at a social justice protest had to just be doing something that entailed violence speaks to some seriously dysfunctional thinking.
The answer is becoming clearer, and it YES. Republicans were supposed to blow away the Democrats in the House. Instead, they barely were able to take control of the House.
The Republicans were supposed to take over the Senate. Instead, they lost a seat and now Democrats have complete control (save for the filibuster).
Republicans were supposed to gain governorships, they didn't, they lost seats and AZ turned Blue.
Republicans even lost some state houses.
Why? Two reasons that I can see. The Republican war on women's freedom to choose and Trump's toxicity.
Love it!Here is a sad quote about the so-called Republican Party under Lying Trump.
"His performance so far reflects his success at transforming the Republican Party in his image. He’s reshaped the GOP into a more blue-collar, populist and pugnacious party, focused more on his volatile blend of resentments against elites and cultural and racial change than the Ronald Reagan-era priorities of smaller government and active global leadership that former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley has stressed. "
The Republican Party, as they portrayed themselves, is no longer the party of moral leadership, ethics, small government, globalism, and family values. Instead, the Republican Party is an often violent party of revenge who are beholden to a Putin-style authoritarian demagogue. (the bold parts were uniquely Republican)
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/05/politics … index.html
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