https://thehill.com/changing-america/en … faculty-be
Check out this article from the Hill, I always say that Republicans and conservatives suck and they reaffirm that for me every day.
What if, as a student or students, we refuse to participate in such a survey? I don't see how my political views are anyone's business.
So, what will DeSantis do if he and his Brownshirts fail to have participation or get caught using specious information to throttle funding for schools and instutions that do not coordinate with right wing bullshyte?
Conservative are always talking about indoctrination, these are young adults capable of thinking for themselves. But again that is not a comfortable idea for any rightwinger to digest.
Who is to say that people will actually participate and incriminate themselves by giving honest information? I wouldn't.
I tell the Governor, that he and his fascist supporters can " eat it".
Election time is coming up and I definitely am going to vote him out
The Governor is determined to rein in free speech during protests but passes laws making it easier for KKK to have rallies on campus?
I am all for diversity of thought and ideas, but for DeSantis to attempt to measure the inmeasureable is unconscionable by controlling what it is that people believe.
"Conservative are always talking about indoctrination, these are young adults capable of thinking for themselves."
Ignoring the inflammatory and offensive language of the post, this still sticks out. You ARE aware that the logic, reasoning portion of the brain does not develop until the mid-20's? You are aware that children everywhere are extremely impressionable? You are aware that a great many universities refuse to accept conservative speakers?
And you still complain that our children are "able to think for themselves"?
(Having ask that, though, I agree - requiring colleges to question political beliefs of either teachers OR students is beyond the pale. It cannot be of any use, except to show that higher education is a hotbed of leftwing drama and brainwashing - something we already know.)
I consider anyone over the age of 18 in the majority. I fought over that in Colorado during the day against the concept of a "no mans land" between 18 and 21. You can't have it both ways, old enough to vote or be part of selective service means old enough for every other adult oriented activity. I still believe that it is wrong to have that inconsistency within our society.
Besides controlling my thoughts, Universities in the interests of free speech should allow conservatives to come to speak and they should have the opportunity to be included on any lecture circuit, but attendance is ultimately up to the students. You cannot make them attend, you know.
Yes, my intro was less than pleasant, but the Right has deserved it this time, people can think and believe as they wish, regardless of the "hotbed of leftist opinion".
"Yes, my intro was less than pleasant, but the Right has deserved it this time, people can think and believe as they wish, regardless of the "hotbed of leftist opinion"."
Hey, you are very passionate about your views, I don't think anyone can mistake that fact. And you are ultimately correct people can think and believe as they wish. However, when it comes to attending college should it not be a time to share opinions, and yes enjoy attending classes. It is becoming very clear colleges have become hotbeds of leftist opinions. It is time we get back to sharing opinions. It's a shame we need laws to accomplish a comfortable atmosphere for our children to attend college.
The very nature of university and free inquiry tend to support a liberal mindbent. Most universities and colleges are. Eew, After all, who really wants to attend Jerry Falwell University?
What is all this silencing stuff? No one is keeping Rightwingers from having their say and who is gagging students? Rightwing views are unpopular, so which students complain about being muzzled? Are they being stoned for expressing an opinion? And outside of the gobblegook of the bill, what is the real intent behind it? So, to the right, I say speak, but if you don't have much of a following, don't ascribe that the more commonly held opinion is the result indoctrination. I am aware that conservative lecturers are not necessarily invited onto the lecture circuit and that should be corrected, to pursue the wide range of views you are talking about. But as they say, you can lead a horse to water.......
I don't like the theme of the DeSantis bill and as I live in Florida, I can vote him out.
I see your point. However, this bill may open a door to learning and sharing views on college campuses.
I can't see where it will harm anyone. It is most obvious that DeSantis is politicking. He most likely hopes to impress he is a problem solver. But yeah, he is politicking. He most likely will make a run in 2024.
The bill looks to be aimed at protecting free speech and providing an open atmosphere to share views without any form of group condemnation of an individual for their views.
Today the right and left have a very severe divide in ideologies. It is clear many on the right no longer have the stoic views of the Republican of old. They are pushing back, and rightly need a neutral non-bias atmosphere especially in our colleges. So, this bill in my view can provide that atmosphere.
I agree that it is wrong to discriminate on the basis of age, just as you do.
But being politically wrong does not change basic biology. Those children are not capable of true reasoning and they are extremely gullible and easy to lead.
It is been most interesting as left wing universities consistently refuse to bring in conservative guests while at the same time proclaiming they are the bastion of free speech. Whether the students like them or not, the universities are not providing a balanced system even as they make the really stupid claims like that.
I appreciate your points here, Wilderness. It is up to the faculty and administrators at the universities to make the myriad of speakers and political views available to all. Conservatism is not a popular concept among younger people no more than "hot bed liberalism" is found among adherents of the Church of the Latter Day Saints. Nor was it popular during my time at the university level, attending a relatively conservative institution within what was considered a conservative state at that time.
So, what do we do about basic biology? Do we mandate classes and attendance as if these students were all middle school kids?
Unfortunately for conservatives, the directional changes are strong and all encompassing in all aspects.
Well I certainly agree Florida is getting transplants from the North East, those that I know are all fleeing the North East due to high taxes and idiotic "progressive" policies that are destroying those states for Middle/Working class people.
This is a big change in who is coming from the North East to FL, in previous decades it was primarily those who would be classified as 'well off liberal North Eastern types' retiring here. Today, it is people fleeing New York especially, those with Republican/Conservative mindsets.
Also the Cuban and South Americans that move to Florida are more 'Conservative' and "Rightwing' than any North East Republicans, they are often survivors of socialist states and want nothing resembling those politics taking hold here.
What I have seen from your posts in recent months, is more eccentric ranting and hyperbolic regurgitation of un-informed or misleading reports, like the article you linked to regarding this issue.
To quote DeSantis on this issue:
“It used to be thought that a university campus was a place where you’d be exposed to a lot of different ideas,” DeSantis said at a press conference this week. “Unfortunately, now the norm is really these are more intellectually repressive environments, you have orthodoxies that are promoted and other viewpoints are shunned, or even suppressed. We don’t want that in Florida, you need to have a true contest of ideas.”
“Two weeks ago, at my direction, the State Board of Education took action to stop Critical Race Theory and the 1619 Project curriculum from being a part of our school system,” DeSantis continued. “We do not want curriculum that is judging students based on their race and we do not want false history, like you see with the 1619 Project.”
DeSantis spoke specifically about how some people will see on some college campuses that murderous communist dictator Mao Zedong is treated “positively” and that people are walking around sporting shirts of Che Guevara, whom DeSantis correctly noted was a “communist thug.” DeSantis said that he wants to stop the whitewashing of the horrors committed by these communists.
DeSantis is an enemy to those pushing all the things we see leading to the chaos and decay of places like Seattle, San Francisco, Portland, and the insanity that took over campuses like Evergreen State College:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-the … 1506034740
So what the Bill states is:
"The State Board of Education shall select
or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid
survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent
to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and
members of the college community, including students, faculty,
and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on
campus and in the classroom."
In other words... a survey to determine if faculty and students feel they are free to express their opinion, as in, they are NOT being censored or silenced, they are not being forced to accept "indoctrination" of a particular political nature.
Then it goes on about protecting Free Speech, and Student's Rights to appeal if they are disciplined by the school for exercising their Free Speech, and then says that the schools must have written rules in place that they work off of, so in other words, they can't just make up a rule and suspend a student simply because it is the most politically expedient thing to do.
But the article is a nice hit piece on DeSantis for those who just want to take it for its word, and not actually read the Bill.
When I look at California which is opposite to FL as much politically as it is geographically, I have no problem with DeSantis, the alternative is governance like we see Democrats bring to CA.
Living in California for the majority of my life, always having been conservative but now right-leaning in moderation, I always laugh at people who compare other states to California. I lived in Kansas for three years, and it was a nightmare dictated by liberalism at every turn despite allegedly being a red state. Here in California, all of my friends (of which there are many) are right-leaning, or bordering on the old-time views of fascist.
I honestly don't feel affected by any liberal agenda other than illegal immigration here in California, except maybe affirmative healthcare which will feed me any drug I so desire which I find quite nice for a myriad of reasons that are irrelevant to the conversation at hand, but I felt I needed to point out where this "liberal boogeyman" title actually comes into play in my reality here in SoCal.
Other than pharmaceutical drugs and unnecessary medical treatments being widely available, California feels more red than the "conservative" state I resided in for three years, but even the red state had more illicit drugs readily available lmao.
California has the highest taxes in the Nation... Florida has no State Income tax, lower housing costs, lower gas prices, etc. etc.
California has the highest number of homeless littering the streets of their cities, over 160k, more than the rest of the entire country.
California gives drivers licenses to non-citizens, Florida deports non-citizens.
And then there are CA's droughts, flash floods, forest fires, blackouts...
While you and your friends may be in a little bubble of white-supremacy existence in CA, the rest of your state is being washed away in 'Progressive' idiocy that tells of its imminent (within a decade or so) collapse into unrest and criminal activity akin to some third world nation.
Florida has all the advantages, for NOW. California was no. 1 for a long time and I suspect that it will return to that status soon enough as the progressive way is better in the long term, and it is coming to a theatre near you.
Yeah, so California has weather issues, but the hurricanes here are nothing to sneeze at.
Florida is currently a "bubba state", and a political battleground state. When we get a few more enlightened northeastern people here, we will squeeze out all of that "bubba".
"While you and your friends may be in a little bubble of white-supremacy existence in CA, the rest of your state is being washed away in 'Progressive' idiocy that tells of its imminent (within a decade or so) collapse into unrest and criminal activity akin to some third world nation"
So what was this tirade all about, Ken? The opposite of "white supremacy" is progressive idiocy? And you know that the concept of "white supremacy" is resisted at levels of the left, period.
You have said that I like to use labels to define people. Well, looking at your posts and comments for some time leads me to the opinions I have. I am more concerned about content over labels. If it walks, quacks and waddles like a duck, I am certainly not going to call it a moose.
First and foremost, most of my friends are Latino, so this "white-supremacy existence" fallacy projection is as irrelevant as it is dashingly ignorant.
Taxes don't seem to be a real issue when taking into account your real gripe about inflation. I agree, the prices that are higher due to inflation are egregious, but I see the taxes being paid as a way to keep inflation in check. We could tax the rich higher, tax the poor less, but that also brings up economic woes, so I'll give the extra percentage in taxes while they work to ease/resolve the situation.
I already agreed with you on illegal immigration, as most sane Californians would. It's turning our ghettos into racial violence hotbeds, and it is beginning to bleed outward from the communities most would usually avoid outside of social work. I even have some Narcos (cartel) living in my gated, upscale apartment complex right now; half of those Narcos do not have legal immigration status, and I'm worried what the future holds when known cartel members can exist with impunity in my neighborhoods.
Droughts, flash floods, forest fires, blackouts... I mean, I see that we get covered in the news for our fires a lot more, and other things, but I don't see what California as a state can do about natural disasters. Unless we pick up and move this unfavorable (by your standards) population to, say, Florida, I'm not sure we could solve forest fires, and everything else is up to mother nature or some corporation to fix/avoid. Those seem like nonpartisan issues, or bipartisan at worst.
As for homeless, I'm not sure how anyone would tackle that issue. You'd probably dislike adding onto general welfare, but the fact of the matter is we need less financial handouts and more refined psychiatric care as a preventative. Most homeless individuals are so because of their mental stability, and the only way to address that issue is to be proactive, rather than reactive. Proactivity takes a progressive, expensive approach, unless you'd advocate for death camps or something, then that would just be ludicrous and you don't seem the type.
Read the legislation. The article is skirting the truth. It well appears yes students and faculty will be asked to take a survey in regards to their opinions on intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity on campus. No one can force anyone to take a survey. Plus the survey is not to assess one's political opinions. it's to assess if one is able to share their ideologies freely or if their free speech is being silenced. It's to level the playing field.
"An act relating to postsecondary education; amending
ss. 1001.03 and 1001.706, F.S.; defining the terms
"intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity" and
"shield"; requiring the State Board of Education and
the Board of Governors, respectively, to annually
assess intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at
certain institutions; providing requirements for the
assessment; authorizing the State Board of Education
to adopt rules; prohibiting the State Board of
Education and the Board of Governors, respectively,
from shielding certain students, faculty, or staff from certain speech. "
Students will have the privilege of recording and video in the classroom. This is a good thing.
Yes, it well appears the new Republicans are pushing back. Unfortunately, we need interventions at the college level to promote freedom of speech, and the opportunity to share diverse ideas.
Many of us are not willing to pay for our children to be indoctrinated or silenced by anyone. I support DeSantis's and feel my party needs more with his progressive nature, and ability to quickly handle problems.
Read the legislation it's a very good solution to make students comfortable to be able to share their views, without being silenced or in some cases shunned.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2 … ext/er/PDF
I have read several articles and the bill with all its legal jargon from the link Sharlee provided and no where does it state how to administer the survey. Nor does it say if it will be anonymous or how it will be used. I get the intent and agree to some extent, yet see it as limiting liberty with being a requirement by each individual student and faculty to share personal beliefs as they stand at that moment. If one declines to take the survey are they essentially expelled from any further class participation? Just curious . . .
I think due to the fact the bill does not stipulate it is required to participate in the survey, or that one would be penalized --- I would think the survey would be voluntary. In my opinion, it was mostly a political ploy on DeSantis's part. The bill has no real teeth as it stands. I think DeSantis will be keeping himself in the public eye, he most certainly will be one of many that will make a run in 2024 if Trump does not run.
"University professors were a target of the post-war Red Scare," the Herald's editorial board notes. "In 1949, the National Council for American Education published a booklet called 'Red-Ucators at Harvard,' listing professors deemed subversive. In 1954, Wisconsin Sen. Joseph McCarthy's House Un-American Activities Committee sought to flush out communists among educators and questioned professors accused of having ties to the Communist Party. Intellectual diversity should be something every university strives for, but we know the results of government officials policing educators: paranoia, persecution and the opposite of the free speech Republicans say they want to protect."
Unpleasant deja vu, Sharlee.
I don't think DeSantis is trying to flush anyone out. He is just hoping to make it comfortable for all to share the same freedom of speech. This seems to be a problem for you... Am I wrong? I would be disturbed if I found out anyone was made to take the survey that did not want to.
Perhaps we need to wait and see how this all plays out. I hope it works the surveys work to find problems, and solve them in a way that all feel free to express their thoughts on campuses
This to me can't be bad.
I guess that i am nervous as to his threats regarding what would happen if conservatives believe there is a lacking of intellectual diversity. I certainly do not want school funding based on the finding of Rightwingers
I am aware of your concerns, but perhaps there is another way to do this. Why intimidate students and faculty, what if no one participates in protest? Liberals are going to resent it, and will the gripes of a few conservative students be the basis for punishment of an entire institution?
Because DeSantis did speak of consequences if his standard/Rightwinger standards are not met.
"Because DeSantis did speak of consequences if his standard/Rightwinger standards are not met."
Sounds pretty reasonable given that leftwinger "standards" are that no conservative opinions are allowed and no conservative speakers will enter the campus. On the rare occasion that such a speaker slips by the censorship then students will "protest" in such a way as to drown out anything they might say.
With that as the background all that is left are those dreaded, awful "rightwinger standards" to promote actual free speech from both sides.
Well, Wilderness, i think that we can do without DeSantis and his thought police.
The problems are administrative
1. Require that the Universities give all speakers an opportunity on the lecture circuit. Equal Access.
2. Discipline or otherwise remove students that are disruptive and heckling during any speaker's address.
That is as far as I will go to encourage free speech without indoctrination. Would you see this as a solution short of controlling the thoughts and opinions of others?
After that it is up to conservatives to make their case.
Thank you, the fact that it really serves no real purpose except for conservatives to stick their noses where they don't belong. And yes, DeSantis has said that there would be reprisals against university funding "as tax dollars are wasted" if there is found to be adverse information from his surveys. I consider that to be a threat, not bad for just a political ploy, yes?
Yes, I am curious as well.
if the Dems can do it, (indoctrinate,) so can the Reps. The flip will occur. But it will still not seem fair ...
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