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  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 14 months ago

    Taiwan/US vs China

    Trouble brewing?

    1. Sharlee01 profile image83
      Sharlee01posted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Trouble is brewing in my view. Over the past two months, China has put out very clear statements that they will not put up with the US or any nation interfering with their policies.

      Biden's approval of a $750 million arms sale last week to Taiwan has once again defied China.

      In response to the Biden administration's announcement of the arms sale this week, the Chinese Embassy released a Thursday statement alleging interference in its internal affairs and saying the U.S. "undermines China's sovereignty and security interests by selling arms to the Taiwan region."

      The Chinese Embassy put out a statement that the provision undermines international law and "violates the one-China principle and provisions of the three China-US joint communique," adding that it sends the "wrong signals to 'Taiwan independence' separatist forces."

      "China will resolutely take legitimate and necessary counter-measures in light of the development of the situation," the embassy added on Thursday.

      Not good, it would seem Biden just is not a problem solver but a problem maker.  Poking a sleeping panda just as a rule does not work out well.

    2. CHRIS57 profile image61
      CHRIS57posted 14 months agoin reply to this

      From a foreigners standpoint: What does the US have to do with it.
      In South East Asia they stuck their fingers into Vietnam and almost got them cut off. No lessons learned?

      From someone with a little personal experience with China: I remember  the 80ties, when a Chinese national (lets say from HongKong) needed 3 passports: 1 British Crown Colony, 1 Taiwan, 1 Mainland China. Any Chinese national from either location was treated to be domestic with no protection by international laws.
      Situation has not changed over the past 40 years. Why ... why should it change now?

      If i compare Taiwan to the PRC (Mainland China) today, then Taiwan appears to be like an old, worn out, dusty model of what the PRC is today, at least economically. But not only - the island is confucian as well with all authoritarian tendencies.

      Chinese are very pragmatic people. As Chinese/American philosopher Lin Yutang wrote: "Chinese don´t dream". And what is true for the Mainland side is also true for the island side. Same culture, same heritage.

      What i want to express: Economic reality will simply reunite the island with the mainland. Not today, but probably in 10..15 years. And most of the people will be happy to reunite.

      Why should the US mess with all this?
      The US foreign policy is that of a wolf. Agressive, always protecting its own territory (wolves patrol and leave marks, the US has aircraft carrier groups that do virually the same).
      It takes a lot of energy to patrol territory in remote places. The US actually can´t afford it any more.

      China is no wolf. China is a jelly fish. Slowly moving and very gradually expanding its reach. Taiwan is definitely in reach. What can a wolf do about it? Should not be his territory.

      Now my personal opinion. You may follow it or not. But i think if China fears anyone, then it is 2 nations with borders to China: India and Vietnam. India because of sheer population size and Vietnam because they are the younger and more agile alikes. Again, my personal opinion, derived from discussions with Chinese collegues and friends.

      The US has no part in this. Russia has no part in this.
      Why by all means should the US take so much interest? Why should this be any partisan issue in the US. Definitely not worth it.

      1. Nathanville profile image92
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        By our ‘western values’ China is no angel, but I do agree with what Chris says; from this side of the pond the USA is the aggressor.  Like Chris, I have Chinese friends (neighbours) from who I’ve learnt a lot about China culture.

        Also, with the ‘silk road’ railway line running from China, through Europe and to London, England, the UK is able to trade with China, rather than trying to bully it.

        China's New Silk Railway Road to London, England:  https://youtu.be/zMcBhN49LRo

        1. CHRIS57 profile image61
          CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Arthur, yes - China is no angel, if we compare to our standards.

          In China, after trying this and that, i decided to stay in international hotels, because the internet communication was not as restricted as in remote places. I also always kept my German smartphone for the same reason. They have a lot of internet surveillance bots in place. If you type in something like "Deutsche Bank", it is likely you are thrown out of internet and you can try to reconnect after 15 minutes. 

          Chinese culture covers this surveillance stuff. It is confucian, hierarchic. People obey to their leaders and in return are taken care of.

          China´s new silk road has 2 strategic goals:
          #1: extend economic influence into Russia and Europe
          #2: get intependent of waterways. So the "wolf" can´t do much with his carrier fleets.

          While #1 is coming anyways, #2 has real geostrategic importance.
          This is why the "wolf" is messing so much with the Ukraine and Iran and the Middle East. This is why the "wolf" tries to be best friend with Kaukasian countries like Georgia. All action aims at throwing a roadblock into the land connection between China and Europe.

          This quarreling about Taiwan is a side stage only.

          1. Nathanville profile image92
            Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Thanks for a comprehensive overview Chris; what you say fills in a few gaps, but is very much how I understood it.

    3. RJ Schwartz profile image89
      RJ Schwartzposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I'm concerned that China will see the weakness shown by Biden in Afghanistan and make a move to secure Taiwan permanently - this week is already shaping up to be one of the biggest foreign policy disasters in US History and the world is watching

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
        Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        The CCP is now aligning themselves with Afghanistan, as well.

      2. Ken Burgess profile image84
        Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        China has a long history with Biden, they did everything they could to ensure he became President, there were parties throughout China when he won.

        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … reet-biden

        They've always known his weakness, they planned on it.

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 14 months ago

    President Jimmy Carter’s administration later made an official change: In January 1979, the US recognized “the Government of the People’s Republic of China as the sole legal Government of China,” and the two countries established formal diplomatic relations. At the same time, Carter terminated America’s official ties to Taiwan.

    But Republicans and Democrats in Congress were unhappy with the president’s decision. Only three months later, lawmakers — including then-Sen. Joe Biden — passed the Taiwan Relations Act, which codified into law a continued economic and security relationship with the island.

    It formalized that “the United States shall make available to Taiwan such defense articles and defense services in such quantity as may be necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficient self-defense capacity as determined by the President and the Congress.”

    The law also stated that “any effort to determine the future of Taiwan by other than peaceful means” would be “of grave concern to the United States.”

    https://www.vox.com/22405553/taiwan-chi … -ambiguity

  3. Live to Learn profile image75
    Live to Learnposted 14 months ago

    I did not know that about Jimmy Carter. He was a spineless dweeb.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
      Kathryn L Hillposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      And yet, back in the day, Biden came to Taiwan's rescue!!!
      Odd isn't it?

      And today we can say, "Yay, President Joe Biden!"
      ... and that's even odder! (and even refreshing!)

      https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/06/2 … er-taiwan/

      1. Live to Learn profile image75
        Live to Learnposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I think one thing that bothers me is how Europeans are so willing to turn a blind eye to human rights violations, if it is profitable. We have a world gone mad about historical transgressions but won’t lift a finger in support of current victims.

        1. CHRIS57 profile image61
          CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          It is never about human rights, it is always only about power.

          For every "good cause" human rights support of the USA, i can give an example for "neglect" human rights support of the USA.

          And it is not even clear, what would be "good cause"?

    2. Ken Burgess profile image84
      Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      He was far worse than that.

      I still remember his Address to the Nation (link below) he was always chastising Americans, always telling them they needed to suck-it-up, do without, deal with decline, etc. etc.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM_XuV9mUkE

      "... may become a National catastrophe"
      "...this difficult effort will be the moral equivalent of war"
      "...you will have to put up with inconveniences and make sacrifices"
      "...it worse because moral waste has occurred"
      "...it will get worse everyday until we act"

      My Gawd, the guy couldn't have been more depressing and dark if he tried.  Iran, Oil Crisis, Out of Control Interest Rates, while he was President the country was a dump and it felt like we failed at everything.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago

    I believe we are going to take on China, eventually.
    However, Biden and the rest are not strong enough. Why would the democrat leaders show any consideration to Taiwan, when they know good and well it will ruffle the CCP's feathers?

    wondering.

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago

    China is prepared to recognize the Taliban as the legitimate ruler of Afghanistan if it succeeds in toppling the Western-backed government in Kabul, U.S. News has learned, a prospect that undercuts the Biden administration's remaining source of leverage over the insurgent network as it continues its startling campaign to regain control.

    From:
    https://www.usnews.com/news/world-repor … us-threats

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago

    "China on Friday fired back at the Biden administration's announcement this week of a $750 million planned arms sale to Taiwan, calling the move a "vicious provocation" and vowing retaliation at a time of already heightened military tensions.

    A story published Friday morning in China's English-language Global Times added that the sale aligns "with a U.S. strategy to create trouble for China in the Indo-Pacific," and said the new weapons and equipment "cannot tilt the military capacity gap across the Taiwan Straits." The Global Times is considered a mouthpiece for the Chinese Communist Party."

    From:
    https://www.usnews.com/news/world-repor … the-wolves

    1. CHRIS57 profile image61
      CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Actually, whatever you interpret into something is reflecting on how you think yourself.

      If you think China´s rethoric is agressive and war mongering, then what about the USA? Why is it not agressive if loads of war material is supplied to some island at the gate of China? (What was that about Cuba during the hot phase of the cold war?).

      The USA has been playing these games for decades after WWII. Now China has also become one the big boys? So what?

      Recalling daily life in the US and in China, my personal observation is that military was always present in the US, but very seldom in China. You find barracks, airfields, naval bases all over the place in the USA, chances are high that your neighbour in a garrison city is with armed forces.
      This is totally different in China. No uniforms out on the streets, except for occasional parades. Doesn´t mean there are no troops, but population adjusted that is only some 30% of US troops.

      Chinese are very pragmatic. If they thought a war was more beneficial than peace, then they would wager war. But that is not the case. Chinese want to do business, that is threatening enough to some, but war? Never.

      1. Nathanville profile image92
        Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Yep, China wants world trade, which Americans (who are very nationalistic) see's a threat to jobs, while Europeans (including the UK) see that as an economic opportunity to trade.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago
    1. Nathanville profile image92
      Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      The video is 'Fox News' who are renowned for 'Fake News'.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
        Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        So, you don't believe the report?

        1. CHRIS57 profile image61
          CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          With respect to this Fox News report:

          Where is said that China is planning to go to war? It is only said that they will not let anyone touch their sovereignty. And that with a rethoric that every Chinese understands. Not much to object to what the expert said, the Chinese are united in this aspect.

          From my personal experience, most if not all Chinese have this trauma of semi colonial times in the 19th century (opium wars, Boxer uprising). And then in the 20th century the invasion of Manchuria and some of China by Japan. This historic trauma of being foreign controlled for more than a century persists and unites all Han Chinese.

          At the end of the interview with this expert, he came to talk about the economic ties, investments, business, banks.. between the USA and China. Well, making money is not only what Wall Street want´s to do but also what whitty Chinese want to do. Where does war fit in?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
            Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Mao

            1. CHRIS57 profile image61
              CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

              ???
              I don´t understand what this old icon has to do with current development. You can see him sculptured all over the place, but nobody is talking of or about him. That is old stuff. Chinese live here and now.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
                Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Then why did some of the Olympic athletes from China have Mao pins on their jackets? The people revere Mao to this day.

                1. CHRIS57 profile image61
                  CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Even in the city of Mao´s birth i didn´t notice much attention to him, except for tourism. However that was while i was involved in the Yangse three gorges project 30 years ago. But i still have business partners in that region. All i remember is they cook the best food in all of China.

                  Whereever it took me in China, i was shown historic sites from old dynasties, but never saw a shrine of Communist Party Grandes.

                  Anyways, i shall ask my Chinese friends about the symbolism and reverence of the sticker during the Olympics. Kind of interesting for me too.

                2. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Like with Chris, my experience of the Chinese people is that they are ordinary law abiding citizens just like you and me, and they only want the same things as us, I shall be seeing our Chinese friends at the end of the month when we hold our next BBQ, so I’ll have a chat with them then. 

                  Prior to the pandemic ordinary Chinese people were common tourists in England, and like you and me they are just ordinary people:-

                  Chinese tourists make new source of growth for UK:  https://youtu.be/YMvC7xXyb_4

                  1. CHRIS57 profile image61
                    CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    While i am trying to make everone understand the way of Chinese thinking, Chinese tourists are certainly not what is representing China, except that they come in bus loads.

                    Chinese have a very strategic approach to what they do. In my opinion best expressed by the 36 stratagems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-Six_Stratagems

                    Please observe that these stratagems evolved from domestic struggles inside of China many hundred years ago.

                    While i think China will never risk a hot war, their long term strategies will outwhit all Western countermeasures. Western democracies think from one election to the next, quickly adjusting the political course if appropriate. That may look like an advantage, but with respect to China it is not.

                    China is already peacefully eating up Africa. They are investing into every high tech company they can get a hold of (Germany is very vulnerable in the aspect). So .. they are no tourists, but they are also no warriers.

                  2. Nathanville profile image92
                    Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Below, one of our BBQ's with our chinease friends in the centre of the image.

                    https://hubstatic.com/15681521_f1024.jpg

        2. Nathanville profile image92
          Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Chris has summed it up so well.

  8. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago
    1. CHRIS57 profile image61
      CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Interesting article.

      Eventually they simply buy Taiwan. The price tag is not important as the money flows back into the domestic ecomony.

  9. Miebakagh57 profile image70
    Miebakagh57posted 13 months ago

    The discussion so far is interesting to me. I have little knowledge of what  China has impact the world.                                  Seriously, I don't have a basic or fundamentals of her history in the area being discussed. But my eyes are open to the fact that she is not as agressive as she is painted. If it is, it is Bruce Lee's karata sport fight whoooo!                                       That said, and apart karata being a sporting fight or entertainment window, it has make many weaklings become strong to ward off intruding theives anywhere and anytime. But I am yet to see China doing commercial business in Nigeria like a  Mall or Supermarket. But they are building a railway in the western part of the country.                                       Aggressively, my history tells me China sent the  Brits packing via the  Boxer and or Opium War. Other than that, I had not know China being warmongering in other parts of world, unless it would be the 1st and 2nd World Wars?

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
      Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Mao

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image70
        Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Mao? I understand it best as a cultural revolution. It is a Chinese internal affair like Trump's 'America First'!                                     However, the man, Chairman Mao Se Tung is very intrigueing in Chinese history. His death rather than his fall destroys every aspect of the cultural revolution. Had his name remove in history book and every aspect of national life. His wife and fellows cannot help it.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
          Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          The people have been indoctrinated to revere Mao. The plan of the CCP is to dominate the world. They feel they are entitled to do so.
          The Chinese people have heir traditions but not their religion. What can happen in a country which has no devotion to God? - where Catholics are murdered? What will happen to a world which does not recognize the aggression of a Godless power-hungry country?

          1. CHRIS57 profile image61
            CHRIS57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Please leave god and religion out of this.

            I know how sweaty "god" is in China. I followed my interpreter all the way up hill to the highest temple, so she could pray for her daugthers admission to university. Chinese gods can be quite exhausting.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingyin_Temple

            When i stay in Shanghai, my favourite hotel is the Renaissance Yangtze hotel close to people square and Nanjing lu (the equivalent to NY 5th ave). Next door is a Christian church http://en.chinaculture.org/library/2008 … _25619.htm
            I never noticed anything unusual, except the church architecture being dwarfed by sourrounding skyscrapers.

            Everything in good shape and used for service. Absolutely no comparison to the atrocities during the Cultural revolution, example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_ … _Gansu.jpg

            Don´t let yourself be deceived by propaganda.

            It was Karl Marx who said: "Religion is opium for the people". Well, that is not true: At least Opium expands your state of mind. Be careful with religion.

    2. Nathanville profile image92
      Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Yeah, it’s mainly America that tries to paint China as being the bad guy because I think America and Americans feel threatened by China not through war, but through ‘trade’ e.g. Americans fear that cheap imports from China is going to threaten American jobs.

      We had the same issue in the UK in the 1980’s but our Government tackled the problem by making any goods that didn’t meet strict minimum safety standards illegal e.g. that was a time when a lot of cheap imports from China were dangerous.  These days, in Britain, we welcome trade with China because as well as importing products from China (often good quality these days) it gives the consumer greater choice and also gives our manufactures the opportunity to sell to China (Export); which is good for our economy and helps to secure British jobs.

      1. Miebakagh57 profile image70
        Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Thank you for the reminder.

  10. Miebakagh57 profile image70
    Miebakagh57posted 13 months ago

    Who are thore Democrates that sold out the USA to get Bden in? Shame on them. And let vile women laugh on them.

    1. Ken Burgess profile image84
      Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I agree with and support that sentiment.  smile big_smile big_smile

  11. Abecedarian profile image81
    Abecedarianposted 13 months ago

    That would be Democrats, and they didn't sell out the USA. They voted in record numbers to elect a President. That is what is known as democracy in the United States of America. Only some people can't handle the truth.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image83
      Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I must ask, what truth?  I agree that our wonderful democracy allows us the privilege of voting.  Not really sure the president we have at this point is capable of doing his job. That is my truth.

  12. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago
    1. Nathanville profile image92
      Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      As far as I can see from the articles, in essence, it’s only China’s desire to expand its world interest in trade e.g. it’s willing to put more investment into the poor countries than any Western Country is willing to do; and therefore quite rightly reaps the benefits of building close ties with them.

      Britain obtained world dominance during the heyday of the British Empire initially through military force, conquering other lands, and enslaving their peoples; the USA took over the mantel from Britain post world war and kept its world dominance since, often by flexing its military muscles around the world.  So now maybe it’s time for China to take up the reins for a while; excepting America and Americans feel threatened by another nation being superior to them?

      1. Ken Burgess profile image84
        Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Of course, America and Americans should be.

        When you consider the complexities of global trade, the World's use of the Dollar as a reserve currency, the dependence on foreign sources of energy, any American should be concerned.

        This transition from America being the global leader to China is not going to go like it did when it went from the UK to America.

        Our cultures are significantly different, our languages and alliances different.  Transitioning from the UK to America was nothing practically, we had the same alliances, spoke the same language, shared the same culture.

        The shift from America to China will shake the foundations of the globe, it will shift power and wealth away from North America and EU and to Russia and China, BRIC nations, and the ASEAN-China  alliance.

        When the world wakes up to the significant differences between a China driven global trade and an American driven one, it will be too late.  The Financial Institutions on Wall St. that have poured hundreds of billions into developing China and the Corporations that sought their cheap labor will all pay the price for their greed and short-sightedness.

        The CCP does not care for their interests, their rights, their wellbeing, they allowed them into the country so they could use their wealth and technological advances, and once they have served the CCP's interests they will be done away with, partnerships with China last only for as long as they benefit China.

        1. Nathanville profile image92
          Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I appreciate what you say Ken; an honest appraisal of the situation as you see it, without any BS; which I respect, although our perspective and thus opinions and views remain different on the issue.

          After thinking about what you said, running at a slight tangent I thought of what it must have been like for the Brits when the Romans invaded and occupied England for five hundred years and the chaos Britain was left in for centuries after the Romans abandoned Britain in the 5th century and withdrew back to Rome.

          Yes, our languages are similar (British English & American English) and there are strong similarities in our culture; but English is not a language in its own right, it’s a hybrid of old French & German mixed in with elements from various other languages, and to this day is still evolving:-

          •    Old English:  Evolved from c660 to 1150.
          •    Middle English:  Evolved from 1150 to c1480
          •    Early Modern English:  Evolved From c1480 to c1800
          •    Late Modern English:  Evolving since c1800s

          English is not the only language in the UK, and the British culture isn’t the only main culture in Britain; and there are 24 Official Languages in the EU:-

          •    There are 14 indigenous languages currently in use across the UK, including Welsh, which is the Prime language in Wales (taught in Welsh schools as their main language); and in recent years the Cornish (Celtic) language in Cornwall, England has had a revival.

          •    As well as the British culture, we also have thriving Scottish, Irish and Welsh cultures, and there are cultural variants across the whole of England. 

          For what it’s worth, I’m just trying to make a point that nothing is static, and more often than not the fear of change is worse than the change itself.  Regardless to whether China takes world dominants or not, daily life in the West will continue as normal, and most people will not really notice or care about the world shift in power.

          Languages and culture are constantly evolving; and if a dominant China adds to that mix then there are a lot of good things about China culture that could be adapted to Western life.

          But yes, I acknowledge that for Americans and America, worried about the dollar being a reserve currency, and your dependence on foreign sources for you energy that you would quite rightly be fretful about an uncertain future.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image84
            Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            You are correct, there is variance... but you are wrong as well.

            Focusing on the big picture... it is the English Language and the English culture that has dominated, it transformed America, Canada, Australia.

            The Philippines, India, Hong Kong, and so many other places were heavily influenced by the UK and then America, the hand off from the UK to the USA was little different than if I went from NY to Montreal, yes there is a difference, but there are far more similarities and social customs that are the same.

            China is a different culture, looks at the world differently, has a different language (written and spoken) in no way is it possible that a Totalitarian Communist State will transition to world power and be as benevolent toward nations like the UK and Australia in the way the USA was.

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image70
              Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I completely agree to that. Chinese as a language or culture has not in anyway significantly impact any African country or nation.                                      Besides the Chinese culture is Communist in its entity. If China is going to profoundly impact Africa or India, it will be only in the area of trade  technology, and whoooo...martial arts.                                                    The English Language or English is a different thing. I am here not talking the American English, but the British English. The later impact the America and gave it its identity. So it does to other continents like Africa, India. But English fail to surbdue or dominate local cultures.                                         Chinese pangara. Whoooooo! Trade is not something to be afraid of. It's an exchange of money for goods and or service. Whoooooooooo!

            2. Nathanville profile image92
              Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Yep, if/when China takes over the mantle of world power from the USA they may well want to impose their stamp on world affairs, just as Britain did when it sent missionaries to third world (poor) countries to indoctrinate in what we saw as savages to Christianity; we weren’t exactly benevolent then.

              But yes, I think Miebakagh has a point when he says below “But it would be absurd to think that due to transition in trade and technology, the whole world will go communist after China.”  Yeah, China might want to impose some of its philosophies (not all of which are bad) on the West, but short of war (which I think China will want to avoid) there are red lines that the USA, UK and the EU will not cross.

              1. Miebakagh57 profile image70
                Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                'China might want to impose some of its philosophies...'  That is great. But only with the vihecle of  English. Either, Arthur, Ken, or me is not expect to learn  Classical or local Chinese. Whooooooooo!                                     It is much better if street kids were impact with that. That is the norm with every harbinging culture.

                1. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Yep, that was one of my previous points in this discussion:-

                  There are 24 Official Languages in the EU, and there are 14 indigenous languages currently in use across the UK.  The Welsh, the Scots, the Irish and Cornwall, England all have their own distinct Celtic languages, taught in schools and broadcast on TV and Radio in those areas; but they all use English to communicate with the English.  The Annual ‘Eurovision Song Contest’ (which gave rise to ABBA) with over 180 million viewers annually was originally presented in French; but in recent years the presenters have spoken English; which puts the nose out of joint for the French, but it doesn’t detract from its popularity throughout Europe, and beyond.

                  Yep, as you say, China may well wish to impart some of its philosophies on the West (many of which are good), but also like you said, no one in the West is going to speak Chinese, we’ll all retain our own languages; even in England there’s no uniform English, which is something that amazed our Australian cousins when the visited us in 2019 and spent three months touring the UK e.g. in England you only have to travel 20 miles in any direction and the accent and/or dialect can change.  I speak Bristolian, which is quite different to London’s three modern English dialects - And that’s not going to change regardless to which power rules world trade.

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image70
                    Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Very interesting facts and information. Whoooo! Let the Chinese come on. Trade is an interesting venture. They is money in the bank for that.

              2. Ken Burgess profile image84
                Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                I agree with pretty much all of what you are saying.

                So trying to project into the future... what does a world look like when it is dominated by China?

                How they act towards other nations today, as they work to usurp America, may be far different in the future, when they no longer have America to worry about.

                How they view other nations, may surprise you, clearly it would, or you would have more concern for this.

                Ponder this:

                Look how North Korea has done with China as its benefactor.

                Look how South Korea has done with America as its benefactor.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  no ability to project into the ...

                  1. Miebakagh57 profile image70
                    Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    Kathryn, are you sleeping or something? Come on. You need to wake up to reality.

                2. Nathanville profile image92
                  Nathanvilleposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes Ken, I do ponder it, and on that one example you have a valid point, but fortunately (or unfortunately) things are never as black and white as that; if it were then the UK (United Kingdoms) would truly be ‘United’!  And perhaps Afghanistan might still be safe hands? 

                  Part of the reason North Korea is the way it is, is because it’s run by a tin pot leader who supports communism; and China being a Communist country sitting on its doorstep sees an ally in North Korea.  Yes, China is imposing its draconian rule on Hong Kong, and it would like to in Tibet and other regions that China considers its territory.  The British Empire was no different in its heyday.

                  I’m sure that back in the early 19th century slave workers in the West Indies didn’t think Britain to be a good benefactor.  China’s prime interest is ‘trade’ not ‘war’, so who’s to say that given some respect by the West that in the future China is or isn’t going to be a mature International ‘trading’ nation rather than a warring nation intent of conquering the world like Britain tried to do during its Empire days.

                  I’m sure the Boxer Rebellion is a constant reminder to China on how benevolent the West can be when they occupy foreign lands!  Not.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image84
                    Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    The two halves North and South Korea are what they are because of how their benefactor nations have supported them.

                    North Koreans take trains into China to work as cheap labor, China purchases its resources.  North Korea is the way it is, because that is how China wants it, cut off from the rest of the world, a buffer state and a servant state.

                    As is occupied Mongolia, as will become Tibet, Hong Kong, and all that fall under its authority and control.  They will exist to serve the needs of China, they will be drained of resources, wealth and freedoms.

                    The British Empire being no different in its "heyday" does not make it OK.

                    The world taking a 100 year step back in its humanitarian evolution is not OK.

                    China enslaves people, harvests organs from people it herds into its "re-education camps"... where America rebuilt Japan, Germany, South Korea, in its "heyday", China is subjugating the nations it has gained control over as it enters into its "heyday".

                    Yes today America fails in its efforts, like with Afghanistan and Iraq.  America is a declining State and America no longer enjoys the huge advantages in industry, technology and education it did during its "heyday".

                    China has quite literally become superior to America at all critical levels necessary to propel a nation to become a World Super Power.  Today China is the Industrial heartbeat of the world, not America, today China is the vanguard for technological advances and building new infrastructure and trade abroad, not America.

                    We are deep into this transition, and unfortunately with such an inept President currently in place, there is no hope that America will even be able to maintain its place as world leader amongst its allies, let alone all those that oppose it.

        2. Miebakagh57 profile image70
          Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          That is awful and terrific. I learnt also and I think it was on facebook. That a  Chinese brat is sayying that China's gold or currency should replace the American Dollar.                                               How real that will be, it is up to the world to watch.                                                           Basically, power transists from one nation to another. The classic case being from Great Britain to the USA. But it would be absurd to think that due to transistion in trade and technology, the whole world will go communist after China. Where leadership is more worship than a god.

    2. Miebakagh57 profile image70
      Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Those links are interesting stories indeed. I don't see anything wrong in a legit trade or business deal.                                         Honestly, I would not support any undercut or cut-throat deal that undermine the economy of a stronger or weaker nation. Fair is a deal.                                         I believe it was after the  Nigerian Civil War that a short history book about the 2nd World War fall into my hands. I was impressed whth Japan's post war effort and economic development when she open her country to the outside world, having been on self-isolation for decades!                                         Whoooon! What is America afraid of Chinese trade, or is it a question of envy? Nigerian's significant trade with China is to develop the railroad and train which Great Britain and later Rites of Indian abandon. If China cheats, Nigeria will deal with her in the courts of law! Whoooooooo! Chinese pangara.

  13. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
    Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months ago

    "President Nixon once said he feared he had created a “Frankenstein” by opening the world to the CCP, and here we are."

    From:
    https://china.usembassy-china.org.cn/co … ds-future/

  14. MG Singh profile image72
    MG Singhposted 13 months ago

    I think Ken gave a wonderful comment. Further, I will state that the Chinese culture is totally alien to the culture of most of the English-speaking world and that includes India which has over 400 million people who know English and it is the official language of the country. The British and Americans at some places were high-handed but overall they spread a lot of goodwill and goodness around the world. You can never expect that from the Chinese who are basically having alien values and extremely volatile and intolerable as we have seen in the colonization of Tibet and Sinkiang. I am pretty sure that China will never be able to become the global Supremo and sooner than later there will be an internal implosion in China. This is the law of history and I do not think it is going to get negated.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
      Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      But they will try to dominate the world, the sillies!. And we will have to stop them from trying. It will be doable, but not pretty,
      My prediction is that we will win.

      ... and winning takes effort, enthusiasm and commitment all the way to the end.

    2. Ken Burgess profile image84
      Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I agree with this.

      To understand the difference between how the two value allies and alliances you need look no further than to the differences between North Korea (China backed) and South Korea (America backed).



      This I disagree with this, they will achieve Global Supremacy, but you may be correct in that they will lose that lofty position of power and control soon after achieving it.

      The primary reason I see success coming their way is because the rest of the world is too weak and too indulgent to put a stop to it.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
        Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        As far as you know.

        I still think we will wake up and do the right thing for the right reasons.
        Have we rejected vaccine passports yet?
        Oh, don't prove me wrong!!!!

        1. Ken Burgess profile image84
          Ken Burgessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Let's be real, this country can't save itself, it's in no position to stop China's ascension.

          Really, we have a President whose son's firm received 1.5 BILLiON from a Chinese bank 7 days after he and VP daddy visit Chinese officials.

          The media buries that story but spends four years attacking Trump saying he's a Russian puppet. With no proof.

          Our MSM is worthless. As corrupt as our politicians & serving the same Masters.

          Biden... From his basement, running a campaign of Open Borders, Harsher Lockdowns, and Defund The Police... Won the election with 81 million votes?  13 million more than Obama could drum up?

          You think we are going to "wake up and do the right thing"?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image75
            Kathryn L Hillposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            This unfolding we watch or listen in comfort, but when the boots and the guns come, then, of course, Americans will have to wake up.
            Hopefully, I won't be around to witness combat and war on this continent.

            In concrete reality, or virtual, in some manner, at some time Americans will wake up to protect their freedom and preserve their constitution. Of course, you and I won't be around. Until then, We'll only be watching it all on screens.

            ... or what? It's interesting to peer into a crystal ball, based on current events, but perhaps there is a more wholesome spirit approaching which will overpower what I call the left-over and by now exaggerated and distorted ideologies of the hippie generation. Once we see they don't work and they are unsustainable and ineffective we will finally abandon them.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww

            1. Miebakagh57 profile image70
              Miebakagh57posted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Kathryn, ken, and me,  Miebakagh will all be here when it all happen.                                         We are much stronger, healthier, and fitter. Our knowledge of health and nutrition, exercise and fitness has increased manyfold. And do not forget the doctors impact on our wellbeing. These all make longivity very profound.                                        Honestly, I am into my 70's. I will securely and safely cross into the !00. I have look into the timeless crystal ball. All is okay on the other side.

  15. Miebakagh57 profile image70
    Miebakagh57posted 13 months ago

    Years ago, when Nancy Pelosi, was Governor, I tip her as such an one that should become Speaker. I was correct because Nastrodamus nor Zoroster did not see into that.                                      But then she got very friendly with the bad boys. Especially, with all those that do not mean well for America and Their America. Pelosi, soon become the mole that is at the crossroad of Trump re-election. Pelosi made a first in toreing the annual State of the  Union address. Did she mean well? How many  Democrates stand up against her for such a foolish act? That would tip the pendulum a little favour for Trump. And so Biden walk into the  White House with over 81 million votes! Correct?

  16. Miebakagh57 profile image70
    Miebakagh57posted 13 months ago

    Interesting discusion indeed. What China can do in science and technology, America or any Western nation can.                                               These technologies that are being brag about were in the first place borrowed or copied, or exported. Sad to say some are stolen! The Concord Jet plane already grounded for lack of profit, built by Great Britain and France are examples.                                      That said,  I think it is the American Dollar that is dominant in trade. It check and keep things in balance. Almost no day pass that the dollar will not be apply to express cost in the international marketing.

 
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