Our current Political Continuum And YES it is a Continuum

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  1. Readmikenow profile image84
    Readmikenowposted 3 years ago

    I was rated as a committed conservative.

    Those who know me, know that's true. 

    I also admit to it.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image76
      Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Outsider Left
      … along with 10% of the public

      Thought I might be a complete outsider anarchist, no one above or below me.
      I get along 10% political views from the left. Not enough to label me, for they don't stick.

    2. Nathanville profile image84
      Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      Same as Castlepaloma, I scored 'Outsider Left too'; but then I'm not American, and I am a Socialist, so what would you expect.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image76
        Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Since I don't take sides you are safe enough from me. Socialism is better than Globalist, maybe that is what you were searching for.

        I sense most people will change their mind when WEF with all their billionaires, thrillionaires and world leaders attempt to exclusively own all Governments and own us.
        Their promises is we will be happy.

        Rrrriighttt!

        1. Nathanville profile image84
          Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          As a Socialist I am a Globalist, and as we have democratically elected Governments in each of the four nations of the UK (Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland), and democratically elected Local Governments, it’s them that represent the ‘will’ of the people, and the billionaires has nothing to do with the running of the country.

          As regards British politics, about a third of the population have ‘left’ leanings, to varying degrees (about 25% solidly left, Socialists); about the third of the population have ‘right’ leanings, to varying degrees (about 25% solidly right, Capitalists); and the rest of the population are more central (Liberals).  Generally speaking it’s the more moderate (generally middle class) voters in the middle who determine whether a Conservative or Socialist Government gains powers during a General Election.

      2. Readmikenow profile image84
        Readmikenowposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        It's interesting the different way of thinking between Europeans and Americans.  I think I've told you I have a friend who lives in Wales.  His viewpoints are very similar to yours.  We argue all the time about the medical systems of our countries, the laws. 

        One of the big arguments is that he believes you have free speech in the UK and I couldn't disagree more.  In your country, you can be fined or put in jail for making a tasteless joke. It's like that in other European countries as well.  I think that is insane.  At this point in time, in the United States, we still have freedom of speech.

        1. Nathanville profile image84
          Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah, I too strongly believe we have free speech in the UK e.g. I’ve never had any problems in expressing my feelings, as necessary, and keep within the law. 

          And yes, under UK law if you make comments that is harmful to vulnerable members of society e.g. the elderly, infirmed, LGBT, minority groups etc., or your comments incite others to do harm to vulnerable people, then yes it is a criminal offence which can lead to prosecution and even a jail sentence.

          And I defend that law, because it gives protection to the vulnerable.  The European attitude is that with ‘freedom’ comes ‘responsibility’.

          Nevertheless, you can get your views across (free speech) without harming or inciting other to harm vulnerable groups in society e.g. it’s in the way you word things – diplomacy.

          1. Readmikenow profile image84
            Readmikenowposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            "comments that is harmful to vulnerable members of society e.g. the elderly, infirmed, LGBT, minority groups etc.",

            You're kidding...right?

            Thousands of people are arrested in the UK for everything from bad jokes to making fun of things. 

            A man teaches his pug to do the Nazi salute...and he's put in Jail?

            A person is put in jail because they posted rap lyrics from a popular song on her Instagram page.

            A Christian posted passages from the Bible that people found offensive...and HE was arrested.

            Nine people a day are being arrested in the UK for offensive online comments.

            https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/poli … -b8nkpgp2d

            Sorry, facts are facts, NO you don't have free speech in the UK.

            You need to get in touch with the reality that what you have in the UK is government censorship of speech.

            The guy teaching his pug to do the Nazi salute probably represents how speech in handled in the UK.

            I like the United States where the government is not permitted to determine what is and is not acceptable speech.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image76
              Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              In London England in the 70s had this place called speaker corner. Such a wide range of diverse people.
              Most educational experience I've  had in Europe. They could talk about anything like an old best friend for 40 years. Most amazing.

              Don't know what happened overall today. Although there is always enlightenment and really fun people, just harder to find.

              1. Nathanville profile image84
                Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Yep, Speakers Corner, in Hyde Park, London still exists; and is still used.

                At Speakers Corner, IN Hyde Park, speakers may talk on any subject, as long as the police consider their speeches lawful.

                History of Speakers' Corner - The beginning of free speech
                Gallows were installed on this spot from 1196 to 1783; but by tradition, every person condemned to be hung here had a legal right to make a final speech (without restrictions on what they said).

                Then in 1866 when the Government tried to supress a protest movement fighting for Liberal Reforms, the protestors marched on Hyde Park, and finding it locked tore up the metal railings to gain access to the Park, which then led to three days of riots.  The following year, when the protest group marched on Hyde Park the police and military did not intervene; and in 1872, through the introduction of a serious of Regulations governing the conduct of meetings in the Park, the Government made ‘free speech at Hyde Park’ a legal right.

                SPEAKERS' CORNER TODAY:  https://youtu.be/_Fm4fBW9qUs

            2. Nathanville profile image84
              Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              In the UK Hate Speech is just one aspect of the laws that protect vulnerable people from ‘prejudices‘.  To quote the Hate speech laws chapter and verse, the UK’s Legislation on ‘Hate Speech’ (which is a criminal offence in the UK) in a nutshell:- 

              “Hate speech laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender reassignment, or sexual orientation is forbidden.  Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.   The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.”

              With regards to you list of examples, I can’t comment on all the individual examples you’ve given without the details that goes with them; but I can make comment on two of them, specifically trolling and Nazi.

              TROLLING AND CYBERBULLYING
              'Trolling' is the anti-social act of causing personal conflict and controversy online.  In the UK it led for example people committing suicide (including children) because they were trolled.  Therefore Tolling became a criminal office in the UK in 2003, and attracts up to a 2 years prison sentence if found quality in a court of law.

              Under British Law, quoting chapter and verse again:-

              “Persons engaging in Internet trolling are immediately committing an offence under the Malicious Communications Act.”

              The Malicious Communications Act states:

              “Any person who sends a letter, electronic communication or article of any description to a person that conveys a message that is indecent or highly offensive, a threat or false information.  If the reason for that communication was to cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person, then the sender is guilty of an offence.”

              NAZI Salute
              I can’t comment on your example of a man being put in jail for teaching his pug to the Nazi salute, because I don’t have the details.  But being a member of any Nazi organisation in the UK is a criminal offence that attracts a prison sentence, and although the Nazi salute in itself is not a criminal offence, doing a Nazi salute can incite racial hatred (which is a Criminal Offence).  Therefore, in the case you refer to it depends on the circumstances, which I don’t have details for. 

              But a similar case I am aware of is a couple in the UK who named their child after Hitler were sentenced to 10 years in prison in 2018 for being members of a Neo-Nazi organisation.

              You may not appreciate or like our laws in the UK on Free Speech, but we do; and I’d much rather have the laws we have than the USA free-for-all philosophy. 

              Two different cultural values; and we’re both happy with our own culture, which surely is a good.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                From what I can tell political correctness with far too many laws from a few videos I'm seeing  They are not nearly as free and open as it was. There were more personal growth and spiritual, conversation and more vituous podium speakers.
                Sounds too much like neverending  circle of political nonsense going nowhere, much like online.

                I grew up in London Canada of street and building were modeled from London England  I tried to start up a speaker corner without success. So at least yours .still exists

              2. Readmikenow profile image84
                Readmikenowposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Sorry, you don't have free speech.  You have government censored speech.  This is a fact.  Your government determines what is and is not hate speech.  That is too much power.  In the situation of the man from Scotland who was arrested because his pug gave a Nazi salute, nobody complained.  A sheriff saw it and arrested him.  That is called totalitarianism.

                “Any person who sends a letter, electronic communication or article of any description to a person that conveys a message that is indecent or highly offensive, a threat or false information.  If the reason for that communication was to cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person, then the sender is guilty of an offence.”

                This is all very subjective and way open to interpretation.

                It makes me even more thankful to live in a country where we do have free speech.  I'd rather feel I am a citizen in my country and not just a subject.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image76
                  Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  US states are diverse in different laws and ways of living and thinking from state to state. Where Canada is nicer, yet a friendly Dictatorship tuning rapidly into a Communism and police state. I missed my opportunity to move to South America for the sake of my daughter was not ready to move. Now
                  Caught in the Covid War as a disease criminals yet healthier than most.
                  After having my US green card  refused by GW Bush because I refused Bush  a war sculpture. I found myself happier in Canada with less extremes. And of course less extreme money . Nothing against making money, just not at the expense of harming.

                2. Nathanville profile image84
                  Nathanvilleposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  That’s where we disagree.  In my view we do have ‘free speech’ in Britain e.g. I can express myself, and get my viewpoint across, on any subject to any person or organisation without a problem and without breaking the law – I’ve never had any problems or issues with freely expressing myself within the law; so I don’t see that there is an issue with ‘freedom of speech’.  It’s not as if we’re in China or Russia where speaking out against the Authorities will get you thrown in jail, or worse.

                  And I defend the ‘Hate Laws’ we have in Europe because they do protect the vulnerable; and to me (as a European) that is morally right, and important.

                  In your view the legal jargon in the Malicious Communications Act covering Trolling and Cyberbullying may sound woolly, but it helps to protect vulnerable people, including children from, stress and bullying on line which would otherwise cause some to commit suicide; so the law helps to prevent suicides in children; which in my view makes the law morally right, and important.  And the exact interpretation of the law isn’t up to me or the police; it’s up to the courts.

                  While I’m sure you are happy with the lack of ‘protective’ laws in the USA, an attitude which is very American; then I’m equally happy with the form of free speech we have in Europe.  I would be very uncomfortable under the American laws (or lack of them).

                  It remains your opinion that we don’t have free speech in Europe, and it remains my opinion that we do; it all just highlights our cultural differences.

                  It’s the same with gun laws in the USA, which as a Britain I find horrifying.  While, in the UK it’s an offence to be in position of a knife in public, which attracts a maximum 7 year prison term; to me that is a right and just law, whereas I’m sure you’ll find it horrific.  And to kill someone who breaks into your home in the UK is considered murder (potentially a life sentence) e.g. under British law you can only use ‘reasonable force’ to defend yourself, and killing someone is not normally considered reasonable force; whereas in the USA, shooting someone who breaks into your home is perfectly legal; which to me as a Brit is something I find horrific. 

                  These all highlights some of the many cultural differences between Europeans and Americans.

                  You prefer your culture to mine, and I prefer my culture to yours.  I my view my culture is more morally correct and thus the better of the two (which I am sure you will disagree with).  The two cultures are certainly different, but who is to judge which culture is better, assuming one is better than the other?

                  I think, like the gun debates between Brits and Americans on line, this is another one of those circular discussion where the ‘twain shall never meet’ e.g. where we can never see eye to eye.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image84
                    Readmikenowposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    To that I agree.  We'll never see free speech the same way. 

                    I can't imagine living in a country where I couldn't own a firearm.  In the Ukraine, you can own a semi-automatic rifle with no problems.  Handguns are illegal.  You can get a conceal carry permit with a good reason.  In the Ukraine, it means you need to be in good with the local magistrate.

                    I am someone who had his life saved from a bad man with a gun by a good man with a gun. So, I am very glad we have our current gun laws.  Many bad people with guns in the United States are stopped by good people with guns.

                    Yeah, I have no problem with a person breaking into your home being shot.  I would do the same thing should someone try to break into my house.  I know I wouldn't hesitate.  If it were up to me, I would require every person over the age of 18 to have firearms training.

                    Trust me, I don't view your culture more morally correct.  I view it as more gullible and naive.

                    So, yes, I agree with your assessment.  I don't see either one of us changing our views.

                  2. Ken Burgess profile image71
                    Ken Burgessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    The idea of being unable to defend my family from scum that have no value for other's life or wellbeing I find horrific.

                    Thankfully I live in a State where I have every right to kill someone invading my household, and I have a Sheriffs Department that encourages its citizens to arm themselves and calls the people who defend themselves and their homes from attackers and invaders, heroes.

                    What a powerless world you live in, where anyone that chooses can take your possessions or life from you and you can do nothing to stop them.

 
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