The hypocrisy of pro-life/pro gun

Jump to Last Post 1-3 of 3 discussions (101 posts)
  1. Nathanville profile image92
    Nathanvilleposted 2 years ago

    I’ll not get involved in the gun debate because that is something peculiar to America, but I do find the discussion on Abortion of interest.

    Abortion was originally made illegal in the UK in 1861 under the ‘Offences Against the Person Act 1861’, but that law was repealed in England, Scotland and Wales, making abortion legal in England, Scotland and Wales in the ‘Abortion Act of 1967’.

    However, in Ireland (the only part of the UK that is highly religious) the Catholics have long been anti-abortion; so Abortion didn’t finally become legal in the Republic of Ireland (southern Ireland) until 2018, following a Referendum in favour of abortion; and abortion didn’t finally become legal in Northern Ireland until October 2019, when the UK took matters into their own hands and passed the laws from Westminster (London) because the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party)(Northern Ireland Catholic Party) refused to convene the Northern Ireland Parliament to deal with the matter because of a spat that they had with the Sinn Fein (Protestant Party) over political sleaze e.g. Sinn Fein accused the DUP of corruption in Government funding of a ‘Renewable Energy’ project in Northern Ireland. 

    As part of the Northern Ireland 1998 Peace Agreement a ‘Power sharing’ Parliament was set up in Northern Ireland whereby both Catholics and Protestants have to work together in order for the Parliament to sit and pass laws.  The Northern Ireland Parliament collapsed, and was suspended in January 2017 after Sinn Fein made accusations against the DUP Party for making personal financial gain in a ‘Green’ Government funded project; and it didn’t finally sit again until January 2020 when both sides made up.

    However, in the Autumn of 2019 the UK Government, putting pressure on the Northern Ireland Government to reconvene, threatened the DUP Party that if they didn’t agree to reconvening the Northern Ireland Parliament before the end of 2019 that the UK Government would exercise it’s legal right to run Northern Ireland from the Westminster UK Parliament in London, and that one of the provisions it was putting on the statue books, unless stopped by DUP was a pro-abortion law, to bring Northern Ireland in line with the rest of the UK.

    So, in Northern Ireland abortion does not constitute a criminal offence after sections of the Offences against the Person Act 1861 were repealed in October 2019.

    The DUP Party, being a devote Catholic and hard right-wing political party is very anti-abortion, so it was a real threat to them, but they called the UK Government’s bluff and lost e.g. the UK Parliament carried out its threat and passed the pro-abortion laws in Northern Ireland, as well as legalising gay marriages in Northern Ireland to bring it in line with the rest of the UK.  Again being a hard-right political party with very strict Catholic beliefs Gay Marriages is something the DUP party would never had allowed if they’d made up their difference with Sinn Fein and reconvened the Northern Irish Parliament before the end of 2019.  So DUP have only got themselves to blame.

    Abortion in the Republic of Ireland (southern Ireland) is regulated by the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018. Abortion is permitted in the Republic of Ireland during the first twelve weeks of pregnancy, and later in cases where the pregnant woman's life or health is at risk, or in the cases of a fatal foetal abnormality.

    But like Northern Ireland, the people in the Republic of Ireland are very religious, and mostly Catholic, so the road to legalising abortion hasn’t been an easy one.

    In the Republic of Ireland the 1st Referendum in 1983, was in support of ‘pro-life’ (giving the unborn child equal right to life) e.g. strengthening the anti-abortion law.  That referendum was 66.9% in favour, and 33.1% against.

    Then the Referendum in the Republic of Ireland in 2018 was for permitting the legislation of abortion, and that referendum was 66.4% in favour, and 33.6% against – A complete reversal to public opinion 35 years earlier?

    I gather from recent news that the road to abortion in the USA hasn’t been an easy one either; although I’m not totally clear on what the current status is in America, nor on what public opinion is?

    1. Fayetteville Faye profile image61
      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this


      1. wilderness profile image94
        wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        I wouldn't call 40% of the population a "fringe minority".  While it is true that the fringe minorities often try to control the majority, a bigger problem is that the majority often simply runs roughshod over the minority without regard to their wishes or thoughts.

        Lest there be misunderstanding, I am firmly in the "pro-choice" camp on abortion although I do make an effort to understand the complaints and reasoning of the other side.

        1. Credence2 profile image77
          Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          How do we "accommodate" the minority with forfeiting the rights of the majority?

          1. Fayetteville Faye profile image61
            Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this


            1. Credence2 profile image77
              Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Example: Biden won, how do you "compromise" with the minority whose candidate lost?

              So much like cutting an infant in two to compromise with either of two mothers who both claim that the child belongs to them

              1. Fayetteville Faye profile image61
                Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this


                1. Credence2 profile image77
                  Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  The problem with that, Faye is that we have vehemently different views on what is "best for the child".

                  We all think that we work for what is best for our country. Trump and the Right have one vision, while I and much of the Left have another. What is different now, is that the differences are so great that it is questionable that the two can ever meet.

                  In today's political climate the idea that there is more that unites us than divides us may well be just a comforting homily from a past America.

                  And I won't deny that there are forces involved in the division and are associated with and stand to gain from the division. But how do you hold wealth and associated power accountable in a society that virtually worships it?

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image90
                    Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    All you have said rings sadly true.  It would seem things could become worse before better.

          2. GA Anderson profile image89
            GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Assuming you meant "without," the solution is simple and at hand. Follow our Constitution and the laws passed under its authority. We have minority and majority protections in place. And I think they are working.


            1. Credence2 profile image77
              Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              I am for that, but obviously that has not been enough....

      2. Nathanville profile image92
        Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks for your feedback.  I find it interesting in your comments to wilderness that in the USA it’s the Protestants who are anti-abortion; whereas in Northern Ireland it’s predominantly the Protestants who are pro-abortion and it’s the Catholics who are generally anti-abortion!

        1. Fayetteville Faye profile image61
          Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this


          1. Nathanville profile image92
            Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks, it's been an enlightening read.

  2. Valeant profile image87
    Valeantposted 2 years ago

    I understand Faye's point.  In one case, there are laws being passed to protect a life, even an unborn life.  On the other hand, we are seeing school shootings in most years and no legislative action taken to save those lives.

    And this scenario is not about illegal guns being obtained.  It's about legally bought firearms continuing to find their way into the hands of children and then into schools.  I'm all for Second Amendment rights, but to say that the political answer to these unnecessary deaths is to issue more thoughts and prayers, while an unborn fetus is legislated does seem to belie the hypocrisy of pro-life arguments.

    Especially as many of those same people make the body autonomy argument for vaccines and masks, while then ignoring that same principle in regards to a woman's body during pregnancy.  As well as the total omission of the physical and emotional damage, and sometimes fatal cases, caused to the women who chose to get abortions despite laws banning them.

  3. Credence2 profile image77
    Credence2posted 2 years ago

    Mike and Wilderness, you consider your diversionary tactics as clever? On the contrary, they are quite transparent and found not to "hold water" under any serious evaluation.

    Take a look at this chart of intentional homicides in the different countries, the US has a rate 5 times that of Britain and while I am pleasantly surprised that our stars don't compare with those horrendous ones of South America, for example, we are still far more homicidal than Great Britain as a whole. … ess-crime/ … ess-crime/

    Mike, you want to pick on urban areas? London is a pretty good sized place, the last time I checked. I am sure that the city has rough patches and gangs, yet still its homicide rates are below that of 30 American cities of comparable or smaller population. It does not matter whether its AK-47s or pea shooters.

    Let's see the slight of hand you employ this time to explain that little contradiction?


This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at:

Show Details
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the or domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)