Should Democrats get down in the dirt with Republicans?

1. 84

   My Esotericposted 8 days ago

   One of the constant criticisms of the Democratic Party is that it plays too nice. They refuse to use the understanded, immoral, and unethical practices that MAUGA Republicans do. This is one reason pollsters are finding that is driving the Democratic Party's approval rating so low - to put it crudely, Democrats don't have the balls to fight to win.
   
   The latest example of Republican ugliness is their attempt (probably successful) in Texas to disenfranchise Democratic voters by redrawing the congressional map to eliminate as many Democratic elected Congresspeople as possible - blatant gerrymandering.
   
   There are whispers (which should be shouts) now among Democratic leaders about fighting back by stooping to Republican levels - by blatantly gerrymandering in Blue states.
   
   All I can say to save America they need to do it.
   
   As Trump pushes Texas takeover in fight for House, Democrats plot their counterpunch
   
   https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/20/politics … -democrats

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      Credence2posted 8 days agoin reply to this

      Fight fire with fire, I say.
      
      They also say that evil prospers when good people sit around and do nothing and that is my complaint with Democrats. We cannot wait for these people to see reason, for they never compromise and would much rather take it all. Out of necessity, when dealing with the MAGA right, Democrats must realize that the gloves must come off.
      
      The Democrats have been too weak and conciliatory against a ruthless and diabolical MAGA that will stop at nothing until Trump is crowned as King.

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      1. 84

         My Esotericposted 8 days agoin reply to this

         And good people sat around and did nothing in 2024.

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         1. 81

            Credence2posted 3 days agoin reply to this

            ESO, this is it, why Trump and Trumpism comes off as so repugnant.  Being neither liberal nor conservative, it is reactionary and that is a dangerous first in American politics.
            
            If you have the time, a couple of articles to check into….
            
            https://www.salon.com/2023/07/01/theres … ing-power/
            
            https://www.salon.com/2025/07/26/david- … runs-away/
            
            
            
            
            
            Both terms describe political stances that are considered right-wing ideologies, but they differ in their approach to change and tradition:
            
            Conservative: Seeks to preserve existing institutions, customs, and values, often resisting radical or sudden changes. Conservatives value tradition, but they are open to gradual change based on experience and prudence. They may advocate for policies that maintain a stable social and economic order.
            
            Reactionary: Strongly opposes social or political change and wants to restore a past state of society – often a romanticized "golden age" that they believe was superior to the present. Reactionaries are often highly critical of modernity and may favor a radical, even revolutionary, overturning of the existing order to return to a perceived ideal past.
            
            In essence, conservatives aim to maintain stability and adapt to change cautiously, while reactionaries yearn for a return to a specific past and are willing to take more drastic measures to achieve it.

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            1. 74

               tsmogposted 2 days agoin reply to this

               I like the compare/contrast between a conservative and a reactionary. I will look further into that at a later time. Thanks for sharing that.
               
               Here may be a good place to post a reminder some may have an interest in. It is . . .
               
               Tracking Project 2025 presented by Project 2025 Tracker. (Updated July 17, 2025)
               A comprehensive, community-driven initiative to track the implementaiton of Project 2025's policy proposals
               https://www.project2025.observer/?agenc … .+of+State
               
               
               
               The link next goes to a timeline of events
               https://www.project2025.observer/visualize/timeline

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               1. 81

                  Credence2posted 2 days agoin reply to this

                  Thanks, Tim, let me know what conclusion you come to.

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                  1. 74

                     tsmogposted 2 days agoin reply to this

                     I may come back at a later time. Your post that I replied to turned me onto what is known as Reactionarism. At this time I am inclined to agree that is the political climate in a broad circle of the right today. I see the connection of Project 2025 as being more reactionary than conservative. But, I am no expert. I am looking into it further, however I am doing a study on fascism too amongst other studies I am doing like on 'Belief'. I see they are connected in that elements of reactionism are potential tools or precursors to fascist movements.
                     .

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2. 70

   Kathleen Cochranposted 8 days ago

   NO.
   
   There have to be people in this country who still act with decency and integrity.
   
   My mother used to say to me as I left the house "Remember who you are."
   
   At some point, the good people in this country will remember who we are and start acting like it again.

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   1. 77

      wildernessposted 8 days agoin reply to this

      No.  They have too far to climb up the ladder to reach even the bottom of the Republicans.  They will never make it.

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   2. 84

      My Esotericposted 8 days agoin reply to this

      The point is quickly approaching the point of no return where there won't be a nation where decency and integrity will mean anything. We will be Putin's Russia. I know I don't want that outcome.

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3. 70

   Kathleen Cochranposted 8 days ago

   "They have too far to climb up the ladder to reach even the bottom of the Republicans."
   
   Good. I hope Democrats never sink to the level of republicans.

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4. 83

   Readmikenowposted 2 days ago

   Why are democrats so unpopular?
   
   This is from the very left leaning, extremely anti-President Donald Trump, Rolling Stone Magazine.
   
   "The Democratic Party’s Brand Is Cooked
   Yet another poll finds Democrats reaching their lowest favorability rating in decades
   
   Voters have increasingly little faith in the Democrats, a new Wall Street Journal poll found, with the party reaching its lowest favorability rating in more than three decades. Voters overwhelmingly believe that Republicans are better able to handle key issues in Congress than Democrats.
   
   The survey found that the majority of voters, 63 percent, have an unfavorable view of the Democratic Party. Only 33 percent hold a favorable view. This is the most unpopular that Democrats have been according to Journal polls dating back to 1990.
   
   As President Donald Trump enacts an increasingly authoritarian agenda and provides little economic benefit to the average American, Democrats are hopeful anti-Trump backlash will give them a strong showing in the 2026 midterm election. While slightly more people expect to vote for Democrats next year than Republicans, according to the Journal poll, Democrats’ overall favorability has only dropped since Trump took office. 
   
   “The Democratic brand is so bad that they don’t have the credibility to be a critic of Trump or the Republican Party,” John Anzalone, a Democratic pollster who worked on the survey, told the Journal. “Until they reconnect with real voters and working people on who they’re for and what their economic message is, they’re going to have problems.”
   
   Anzalone’s firm, which consulted for both President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris’ presidential campaigns, worked on the survey with Trump pollster Tony Fabrizio.
   
   https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p … 235394662/

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   1. 82

      Sharlee01posted 2 days agoin reply to this

      Mike,   I could write a book on the subject. LOL   
      
      Instead, I will share just my view: The Democrat party is deeply unpopular right now because they've completely lost touch with what it means to be American. They’ve flipped our core values upside down, rewarding criminals while punishing law-abiding citizens, tearing down borders while ignoring the struggles of everyday Americans, and pushing bizarre social ideologies that most people just don’t relate to. Their obsession with identity politics, woke language games, and forcing everyone to conform to fringe views has alienated the majority. People are waking up and realizing this isn’t about tolerance or fairness anymore, it’s about control and division. What used to be a party for the working class now panders to the academic elite, corporate interests, and activist mobs. You can’t run a country by telling people their traditions, beliefs, values, or even common sense are offensive. That’s not progress—that’s un-American. 
      
      In my view, the party is sunk, and has sunk itself.

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      1. 71

         Ken Burgessposted 2 days agoin reply to this

         The Democratic Party (and for a while pretty much all politicians of both parties, for some 25+ years) have been tracking toward a 'Global Agenda'...
         
         Look to France... the UK... Sweden... Canada even... to see where they were/are trying to take America.
         
         I have often said that one of the salvations to being able to thwart those efforts in America has been where the millions of 'illegal' migrants have come from... here... vs. the EU nations that have taken in millions.
         
         In America we have taken in millions from Cental and South America... people who are of Christian descent, this matters as their morals and beliefs will not differ greatly from what America was built upon.
         
         Unlike the EU... Sweden took in millions from Somalia for Instance... in France they have tens of millions from places like Libya, Somalia, Syria...
         people with Islamic backgrounds which when taken to the extreme sees all non-Muslims as people unworthy of respect or consideration.
         
         Parliamentary question | Urgent action needed to stop the spread of radical Islam in the EU | P-002042/2025 | European Parliament
         
         https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/do … 42_EN.html
         
         On 21 May 2025, Le Figaro published a report on a study commissioned by three French Government ministries which highlights a terrifying truth that can no longer be ignored: radical Islam is spreading like wildfire throughout Europe, the result of an elaborate, predetermined plan which makes use of religious dissimulation, one of the main tenets of Islamic fundamentalism.
         
         We must put a stop to the widespread dissemination of a worldview that is based on principles that are diametrically opposed to western law and values. Organisations like the Muslim Brotherhood preach violence and anti-Semitism, indoctrinate children and are potentially being funded by terrorist organisations: they are the internal enemy that we must fight if our centuries-old culture is to survive.
         
         Its a little late in the game... According to the Pew Research Center, Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe. The Muslim population in Europe (excluding Turkey) was about 30 million in 1990 and 44 million in 2010.
         
         By 2023, that number has exceeded 50.3 million, which makes Islam the second largest religion in Europe.
         
         It is expected that by 2050 Islam will be the largest global religion across the four corners of the planet.
         
         The rise of Muslims in the West, particularly in Europe, and particularly nations like Sweden, the UK and France where they are most concentrated, will likely cause major upheaval within the coming years... not decades from now, years.
         
         Other nations... like Poland that have essentially refused refugees/migrants from nations with Islamic backgrounds will not suffer these cultural/societal changes that are coming to France and Sweden.
         
         Look to see what happens in France and the UK in the coming years... from Censorship online to bias against the 'native' populations... that is what was in store for America had there not been the disruption brought by Trump.

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         1. 59

            Willowarborposted 2 days agoin reply to this

            We currently have a president who is in the Epstein files.. the popularity of the Democratic party is not even an issue right now LOL

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         2. 82

            Sharlee01posted 2 days agoin reply to this

            Ken, I completely agree with your assessment that the trajectory of many Western countries, especially in Europe, highlights critical cultural and societal challenges tied to immigration policies and the influence of differing value systems. Your point about America’s unique position, having received many migrants from predominantly Christian countries in Central and South America, does indeed offer a perspective on why our experience with immigration has been different from that of European nations like Sweden, France, and the UK. The growing concerns about radical Islam’s spread in Europe, as you noted with references to official reports and statistics, underscore the urgency of addressing these issues before they lead to irreversible changes in social cohesion and national identity.
            
            What’s particularly relevant here is how this context connects to the political disruptions in America, including the pushback against the ‘Global Agenda’ you mentioned. The political awakening sparked by leaders who challenged the mainstream approach to immigration and cultural integration, such as Trump, was a response not only to economic concerns but also to a desire to preserve the foundational values of the country. The experiences of European countries serve as a cautionary tale, reinforcing the importance of being vigilant about who is allowed to settle and how their cultural and religious beliefs align with those of the host nation. This makes the conversation about immigration policies and cultural preservation not just relevant but critical for shaping America’s future trajectory.

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            1. 84

               My Esotericposted 2 days agoin reply to this

               I had to look up Ken's claim, and as I suspected it was overblown and full of falsehoods.
               
               Here is the truth, if you are interested:
               
               * Instead of the hyperbolic "wildfire" the report was about a strategic influence campaign:
               
               * The government‑commissioned report, prepared by two senior civil servants and presented to President Macron, notes a long‑term, non‑violent effort by groups linked to the Muslim Brotherhood to influence French civic institutions—not a violent uprising nor mass radicalization as Ken claims.
               (The Free Press, Reuters, European Parliament)
               .
               * It describes “municipal Islamism”—entryism at the local level, including schools, mosques, and NGOs—with the aim of advancing conservative norms on gender equality, secularism, and local policy (Reuters, Le Monde)
               
               * The group Musulmans de France (also known as UOIF) was flagged as the main affiliate of the Brotherhood in France, overseeing an estimated 139 mosques and affiliated sites—about 7% of France’s Muslim worship venues.
               
               * The report states no evidence of any recent effort to establish sharia law or an Islamic state in France (RFI, Reuters, Le Monde)
               
               * It frames the influence more as a political and ideological challenge, not an existential or violent threat
               
               * No mention of radical Islam “spreading like wildfire throughout Europe.”
               
               * No documentation supporting the idea of a “predetermined plan” employing religious dissimulation.
               
               The original report was limited to France, not Europe-wide, and focused on soft influence, not terrorism or indoctrination of youth or forced conversion.
               
               While some critics do associate the Brotherhood with antisemitism or extremist messaging, the report did not assert that widespread indoctrination or terror-backed funding is underway. (Arab News, European Parliament, https://debuglies.com)
               .

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               1. 71

                  Ken Burgessposted 2 days agoin reply to this

                  What happened to all those threads you had about what a great job Biden is doing?
                  
                  I miss those insightful posts filled with accurate and well documented sources ...especially the CNN links 100% on it as usual.

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                  1. 84

                     My Esotericposted 40 hours agoin reply to this

                     Deflection

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                     1. 71

                        Ken Burgessposted 39 hours agoin reply to this

                        Nah... your reply was just a tangent that had nothing to do with the statement made:
                        
                        According to the Pew Research Center, Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe. The Muslim population in Europe (excluding Turkey) was about 30 million in 1990 and 44 million in 2010.
                        
                        By 2023, that number has exceeded 50.3 million, which makes Islam the second largest religion in Europe.
                        
                        It is expected that by 2050 Islam will be the largest global religion across the four corners of the planet.
                        
                        Those are facts... your reply did not counter or disprove anything, you injected your own meaning and bias into the conversation.
                        
                        Perhaps you take offense to me noting that when they become the definitive majority that there will upheaval?  unrest?
                        
                        Can you point to a nation in the Middle East or Africa where when the majority becomes Islamic there isn't upheaval and unrest?
                        
                        Do you have examples where the transition from a Christian/Western based society to a Caliphate/Islamic society occurs it is peaceful?

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            2. 71

               Ken Burgessposted 2 days agoin reply to this

               The EU is already toast... There is no reversing the escalating trend ...here is the critical part not mentioned as to why:
               
               https://youtube.com/shorts/P8l9kJqt0sY? … llSBlAJZx4
               
               Watch the short... What happened back in the 60s?
               
               The pill.
               
               Equal rights and the progression of women in particular having complete freedom from needing men and a society that punishes them for being a 'stay at home mom with a husband'.
               
               It is what it is ... Western women are choosing not to have kids ...women in many places in the Middle East and Africa have little choice or options out.
               
               So guess who is still having 5 kids per...
               
               Not liberal - progressive women that's for sure.
               
               That's why the West is going bye bye and will be replaced by believers in Sharia Law... Give it just a few more years, keep an eye on France, Germany, Sweden, etc.

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   2. 81

      Credence2posted 2 days agoin reply to this

      The Democrats are unpopular because they are weak and accommodating toward the tyrant. I spit the lukewarm, neither hot nor cold from my mouth in disgust. Since conservatives, and I use the term loosely as I should say reactionaries, have the upper hand right now, I must just lay in wait for the opportunity to topple that apple cart.
      
      The Democrats in their weakness and fear are almost and I say almost as disgusting as the current GOP regime currently in power.
      
      Conservatives and liberals do not threaten the “guard rails” or attack the referee, but the reactionary knows no such restraint. That is what Trump and Trumpism represents.
      
      Since so many people do not appreciate the danger the Trump regime poses in the abstract, they do recognize dollar and cents issues. If Trump fails in controlling inflation and or the economy tanks, that is our opening. Trump already prepares for the possibility of failure by having Texas rewrite its legislative districts in an attempt to disenfranchise minorities groups who do not swoon over Trumps phony promises. The GOP margins in Congress are paper thin, I can only hope that tradition holds and the GOP loses one if not both chambers next year. If Trump fails, “his goose is cooked” and after November 2026, his agenda will be lame ducked.

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      1. 71

         Ken Burgessposted 2 days agoin reply to this

         Oh, don't worry about it... things will get back on track shortly for the Democratic agenda.
         
         After Trump, who has the ability to carry his message and populist/American-Citizens-First movement?
         
         I doubt anyone does... and when his time is up, nations like the UK and France will have already progressed to the point where reversing course and saving "Western" Civilization and values in those places is no longer possible.
         
         Leaving America in a world with few allies trying to maintain 'Western Society'... big picture Cred, you need to project out to where things are heading and not be myopic about the issues of the day.
         
         Listen to someone who knows:
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHf4NWM_yco
         
         Or
         
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLk4MnWtQ4U
         
         Its always good to know where things are going and why.
         
         And since the Covid lockdowns that were spread globally... I have a newfound sense of what can happen and don't blow things off just because it isn't pleasant to consider.

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         1. 81

            Credence2posted 2 days agoin reply to this

            Leaving America in a world with few allies trying to maintain 'Western Society'... big picture Cred, you need to project out to where things are heading and not be myopic about the issues of the day.
            
            Someone like Trumps very existence in so lofty a place of power is the beginning of an unprecedented, stark and dangerous trend. That is the picture and goes far beyond issues of the day. In almost 250 years this is the first time a reactionary tyrant comes into power, who can dismiss that? Can you really reduce this to mere irrelevancy?
            
            
            After seeing the video, I have to question how does Trump reflect American values, at least the ones we like to boast about? This Muslim takeover is just so much BS. So what if London had a Muslim mayor, the people voted for him and London is no less London as a result. The proposed mayor of New York City received overwhelming popular support by its residents. So, if a convicted felon can be found as an acceptable candidate, why not a Muslim, Black or female mayor? Third world people are not desirable for Rightwing America not because of their ideas but because they are non-white. We all know that, Ken.

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            1. 71

               Ken Burgessposted 2 days agoin reply to this

               Sure Cred...
               
               Go look at what Iran... Lebanon... Syria looked like   in the 70s... And look at them today.
               
               Look at what France looked like in the 90s even... And where it is today ...what religion dominates it today.
               
               But you keep pushing the black - white dynamic... As if that is the only issue impacting our world.

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               1. 81

                  Credence2posted 2 days agoin reply to this

                  Alright, Ken….
                  
                  Christianity:
                  .
                  Approximately two-thirds of French people identify as Christian, with Roman Catholics forming the largest group within this category (around 47%), according to the U.S. Department of State.
                  
                  Islam:
                  .
                  Islam is the second largest religion in France, with estimates suggesting around 5 to 6 million adherents, or roughly 8-10% of the population.
                  No Religion:
                  .
                  A substantial portion of the French population (around 34-51%) identifies as having no religious affiliation.
                  
                  Other Religions:
                  .
                  Smaller communities of Jews, Buddhists, and other religious groups also exist in France.
                  
                  Secularism:
                  .
                  France is a secular state, meaning the government maintains neutrality in religious matters, according to Britannica.
                  ————-
                  I see Roman Catholicism dominating French religious preference, what is there to be up and alarmed about with an Islam adherence of 8-10 percent of the population? How is  that “dominating”?
                  
                  I live in America and while it is not the only reason that Trump was elected, racial resentment was more than just an incidental explanation.

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                  My Esotericposted 2 days agoin reply to this

                  What has that got to do with what Credence said?

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5. 70

   Kathleen Cochranposted 2 days ago

   "Why are democrats so unpopular?"
   
   Who says they are?
   
   https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20 … education/

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