Calif bans gas fueled cars beginning 2035. What say you?

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   tsmogposted 2 years ago

   Calif officially voted to ban gas fueled cars beginning 2035. Washington and Massachusetts are thought to soon follow. What do you think about it?
   
   From CNN
   https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/25/us/calif … index.html
   
   From Fox
   https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/ca … s-electric
   
   From BBC
   https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62683260

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      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      This is what hits me mediately --- does California not already have grid problems, with scheduled blackouts?
      https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … -extremes/
      
      "Power Outage Maps
      The State’s investor-owned electric utilities, notably Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E), Southern California Edison (SCE), and San Diego Gas & Electric (SDG&E), may shut off electric power, referred to as “de-energization” or Public Safety Power Shut-offs, to protect public safety under California law." https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/consumer-suppor … utage-maps
      
      So, I would guess the state is going to build a new grid.  Seem's this Governor has put the cart before the horse.
      
      I support moving into cleaner energy, but certainly expect we have the infrastructure to support changes when they are put in place. I was pleased to see the Biden infrastructure bill pass. (The first one).
      
      Not sure what will happen to all of Biden's green bills if a republican gets backing from the White House.  A new president might can much of it.

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         tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         I agree especially with having the capacity to provide the power to charge the vehicles much less our A/C. Frankly, it is over my head and won't speculate.

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            Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Ya know, it is also over my head. I do think we need to move toward better forms of energy, but I hope to do this using common sense. I hope the infrastructure bill will be beneficial to bringing us along to where we need to be. 
            
            We were warned of brownouts this summer in Michigan, but thus far we have been lucky. Our summers have become a bit cooler over the last few years. When they warned of this, I got to thinking what if we had an electric car?

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               tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               I agree with "Ya know, it is also over my head. I do think we need to move toward better forms of energy, but I hope to do this using common sense." Yet, what is common sense? The common sense of the general public is not the common sense of the climate scientist, planners of different areas of society, and governing agencies in my view. That is one reason why I say it is over my head.
               
               Some of the wandering I did . . .
               
               First, why is important. Seems the tipping point for climate change answers that.
               
               How Close Are We to Climate Tipping Points?
               https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2021/ … ng-points/
               
               ‘Tipping points’ lead to irreversible shifts - climate experts
               https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innov … te-experts
               
               One of the first things I thought of is the life of a car. The average life span of a car is 8 - 15 years. My wild guess that means 2050 there will be no more gas fueled cars on the road with a small percentage that will remain. Maybe I got that wrong.
               
               Then I wondered about the capacity to provide electricity to keep them charged. I came across an article Electric cars could save California's power grid. I read it again realizing it is over my head, yet had a greater understanding. I found it interesting it stated "In the future, EVs will have a two-way relationship with the grid. Some EVs are already able to discharge electricity. In Japan, the Nissan LEAF can supply backup electricty in an emergency—enough to power a home for two to four days. Someday, EVs will be able to sell electricity to the grid." In my mind I see a circular relationship like solar.
               
               The following link goes to a Google University landing page for articles about if the grid will be able to supply the energy needed for EV's. I looked through five pages of articles seeing very few that were negative. However, one can argue it is because of Google's algorithm.
               https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … rs+in+2050
               
               I discovered another article, Why are Electric Cars Important to Society? (Benefits of Electric Vehicles). The opening statement left me pondering. It says, "Electric cars are predicted to be the next disruptive market force for transportation and technology. They have the potential to revolutionize how energy is used, created and redirected." The two key words for me are; 'disruptive' in the first sentence followed by 'revolutionize' in the second.
               
               I have a friend, once a co-worker, who in the past six months bought an electric car. He is one who I would have thought would never have gotten one. He posted a YouTube video offering his experience with it over the first few months of using it. He uses it for work, which is as an outside salesman for tires and family stuff. He loves it. Bare in mind I live in San Diego area and he mainly drives in San Diego city area. When charging he works in his car doing the customer care and sales stuff with his smart phone and laptop.
               
               Anyway one interesting thing is he shared he uses public charging stations that are free to use. The bottom line is today he does not pay a dime to charge his car. I am sure that will change in the future.
               
               San Diego has 1,174 public charging stations, of which 83 are free to use. Calif now has 13,694 public charging stations. Which States Have the Most Chargers Per Electric Vehicle? shares registration of EV's and charging stations by state. And, it gives by mile.

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                  Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  I’m a little more au fait on the subject, in that it’s been an interest of mine since c2012. 
                  
                  The video below might answer some of your questions about electric car and the power grid.  It’s an old video (10 years old) so it was made in the days when over 44% of British electricity came from coal, and less than 2% came from Renewable Energy – A reverse of today when less than 2% of our electricity comes from coal, and around half of it comes from Renewables.  But never the less the video is relevant, and does answer questions about the effect of electric cars impact on the national grid; which surprisingly is quite positive e.g. most electric cars are re-charged at home during the early hours of the morning when electricity is plentiful and cheap, and thus uses electricity that would otherwise be wasted, making the use of electricity more efficient and cheaper per unit.
                  
                  The key points in the video relating the electric cars is at around 5 minutes and 9 ½ minutes.
                  
                  And yes, the technology is already in place in Britain for surplus power stored in electric cars not in use to be imported into the national grid, as spare capacity, if and when needed.
                  
                  National Grid & Electric Cars UK (2012): https://youtu.be/vX0G9F42puY

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      Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      The 21st century needs to see us move away from fossil fuels and fall back on renewables.
      
      The question is that the electricity to power the vehicles has to come from somewhere, are we using more fossil fuels to generate that?
      
      The great news is NASA is getting back on track with its new launch booster, so astronauts are  back to the Moon by 2026 with some sort of permanent presence there by expected 2030. Sorry to digress.

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         wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, at this point fossil fuels will be used to power EV cars.  Fortunately, large generation plants are far more efficient than thousands of individual (often not maintained or tuned properly) small power plants in individual cars.
         
         The net use of fossil fuels (used for the purpose of moving cars) will drop even with the inevitable inefficiencies of transmission, charging batteries, etc.

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            Credence2posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for clearing this one up for me, Wilderness.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

   I say we can only control the here and now. It's very far into the future. The voting is potentially null and void if We The People decide otherwise. And I'm sure we will.
   The problem is batteries are bad for the earth. Where will all the batteries go?
   ... unless we find a better way to generate.

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      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      You hit on an important point
      Tesla claims it can recycle up to 92% of the materials inside its batteries and has said that none end up in landfills. While that may or may not be entirely true. I hope that we can address the potential environmental impacts.

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         tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         I looked about finding this video you may find interesting.
         
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9OT9O5-7ZQ

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      tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah I agree about the battery thing.

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   Readmikenowposted 2 years ago

   How will the electricity to charge all the electric cars come from?  Fossil Fuels. The energy grid in California is scheduled to have rolling blackouts because it uses more energy than it can produce. Can you imagine when tens of millions of people use electric cars?

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      Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      The number of people purchasing vehicles will taper off.
      
      The government will make it more costly to own one.
      
      The days of regular folk owning multiple vehicles, as most middle class Americans do today, families with one car or more for every person in the house, will soon be over.

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         DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         I read this to a friend of mine yesterday and that was her first response. (Her income is about $200 US per month.) Owning a gasoline car for someone with her income is a goal, owning an electric car for someone in her income class is a unreachable dream.
         
         The rich wont mind though.

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      DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I expect that those Californians rich enough to own electric cars will also set up solar panels on their house to charge their cars,
      
      And for those not rich enough to own an electric car and a private charging station?

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         Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         I agree.
         
         I have two EVs, one a hybrid that allows me to use gas if I must.
         
         My next major expense would be to overhaul my home's electrical system, install a metal roof and a Solar System, with a battery system large enough to power the home throughout the night, making grid electricity nothing but an emergency back-up I hope never to use.
         
         But I'm not rich (by American standards), if I were it would already be in place.  Still, in order for me to save money, I will have to invest in it soon.
         
         Electricity prices will become obscene in a couple of years, rates will go up dramatically just like everything else, inflation and greed.

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         Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         You can charge your EV at home very easily, you don't need solar panels.

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            DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            If you are on the grid, and you are using electric power produced by a company, yes, at the moment. Things do change though.

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   Nathanvilleposted 2 years ago

   I say ‘good for California’; thumbs up:
   
   As many here may know, the UK is banning the sales of new petrel and diesel cars from 2030; so we’re already on the road to a cleaner future:-
   
   •    In 2020, UK announces ban on petrol and diesel cars from 2030:  https://youtu.be/dUhMMybqtEU
   
   •    Why The UK 2030 Petrol Ban Is Actually GOOD!  https://youtu.be/DGjFwZZpxS8

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      tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I liked the second one best. It appears the UK is marching forward with being independent from fossil fuels. Yet, I don't know about here in Calif how fast we can get off of fossil fuels. I don't see wind and solar as able to keep up. Then what do I know ha-ha Nuclear as a potential I don't know about too. The decommissioned San Onofre power plant has been a pain in the butt here in the San Diego area that I live for years.
      
      ‘A combination of failures:’ why 3.6m pounds of nuclear waste is buried on a popular California beach
      https://www.theguardian.com/environment … ste-unsafe

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         Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah, the 2nd one is rather cool.
         
         Wow, that is worrying (nuclear waste in California not being properly dealt with); nuclear waste is properly managed in UK, which is something:  https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio … pent-fuels
         
         In spite of the fact that nuclear power is more expensive than Renewable Energy, it is part of the UK’s Conservative Government’s strategy to transition away from fossil fuels, and part of the Labour’s Policy; although the Green Party and the Scottish Government oppose nuclear energy. 
         
         I’m not in favour of nuclear power, but 65% of the British public are; so with both Labour and Conservative supporting nuclear energy, it’s not a controversial issue in England at this moment in time.

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   tsmogposted 2 years ago

   What do the auto enthusiast (Motorhead) think? Seems they are moving in the direction of electric power plants for cars. Today in the National Hot Rod Association (NHRA) there is a class for electric powered race cars.
   
   ELECTRIC DRAGSTER BREAKS 200MPH! (YouTube) 7.5 elapsed time in quarter mile
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6xgzVKph0Y
   
   The '57 Chevy Project 'X' car used since '65 to experiment with different combinations of engine, transmission, fuel system, ignition system, and etc. went electric.
   
   Project X: EV Engine Swap [Ep. 1] | MotorTrend (YouTube)
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXq1VvizqBY
   
   Project X: The EV Build [Ep. 2] | MotorTrend (YouTube)
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjK19hy7INQ
   
   Project X: Making it to SEMA (Episode 3) (YouTube)
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUkqBT2P3gc
   
   And, some inventive motorheads did the following
   
   VW Beetle converted to electric in a day
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVtOss1U7_s

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   Credence2posted 2 years ago

   There is more good news concerning the nuclear fusion concept that we have been hearing "would be just around the corner" for the past 50 years. We have approached a situation where plants are anticipated to be built (2030) as it well appears that, finally, more energy will come from a fusion reaction than what was necessary to initiate it.
   
   The availability of cheap electric energy would fit well into the desire to stave off the destruction of our environment and make electric vehicles all the more attractive with far fewer negatives.

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