The Brits Are Stealing Our Idiots

Jump to Last Post 1-4 of 4 discussions (58 posts)
  1. GA Anderson profile image88
    GA Andersonposted 14 months ago

    It's just for chuckles, not a serious discussion. There have been countless Voter ID discussions and the 'anti's' are seldom able to support their opposition, but when I saw this tweet it brought a chuckle.

    The gist: apparently the UK government is now requiring an ID to vote. It also appears that, at most, the cost to citizens would be the cost of a photograph(?)

    Even if that is a simplification it doesn't change the point. The Brits have their own hyperbolic political idiots - just like us.

    Here's this guy's reason:

    ID cost may deter poorer voters, Coventry councillor claims
    "People may have to choose between food and footing the bill of photo ID if they wish to vote in the future, a leading city politician claims.

    The public will have to show photo ID at the ballot box as soon as May's local elections.

    Proposals for the move were passed by Parliament in December and the government said it would prevent voter fraud.

    But it could leave families weighing up costs, according to a Coventry critic.

    Abdul Khan, deputy leader at Coventry City Council, said of residents: "They may well decide 'look, we're going to use that money to support our family'."


    GA

    1. Sharlee01 profile image80
      Sharlee01posted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Is this really funny or is it sad? We are talking basically about society, where it is, and where it ultimately may be headed.

      So, here is my unfiltered view, the liberal mind is a claptrap, just full of absurd or nonsensical talk and ideas.

      What a load of crap. --- I can imagine if the photo cost was covered for citizens, they would come up with "well the poor need transportation, and drink as well as food while in line for the free pic.  Sound at all familiar?

      1. GA Anderson profile image88
        GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        I don't think this is about liberal minds or where society is. It is about a scheming self-serving politician. With a comparison of the cost of a photo being the difference between eating or voting what else could he be? It's just baloney.

        GA

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          Don't know about Britain, but I can print a photo for 12 cents at WalMart.  If that keeps someone from eating there is a far larger problem somewhere.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image80
          Sharlee01posted 14 months agoin reply to this

          I must come back at you  --- I mean your headline says a lot... Piked up on sarcasm right at the top.

          Then  there was this ---   "ID cost may deter poorer voters, Coventry councillor claims
          "People may have to choose between food and footing the bill of photo ID if they wish to vote in the future, a leading city politician claims."

          Who says something like this?  Do you feel, as a rule, this would come out of the mouth of a conservative?  I think one is commonly more likely to hear this from a liberal politician.

          In fact, I could dig up quotes from liberal Democrats that pretty much did make almost the identical statement in regard to making citizens pay for photo ID.

          I thought my context shared I agree that the politicians are the spoon that stirred the controversy.

          "What a load of crap. --- I can imagine if the photo cost was covered for citizens, they would come up with "well the poor need transportation, and drink as well as food while in line for the free pic.  Sound at all familiar?"

          As we saw the Democrat politicians do during COVID voting. Accusing Republican lawmakers of making it as hard as they could for the poor to vote.

          Perhaps I took my analogy too far? Not sure what you were looking for.  It mimicked Democratic politician concerns over vote ID, and the cost hardships it could put on the poor.  Hey, sorry, I feel we see more liberals having the cost concern in regard to voter ID laws. Hence, my analogy was born.

          So, let me rephrase my response.   Yes, it would appear our politicians have a lot in common with the Brits politicians.  Gosh, so easy, why did I not think of this response, to begin with?

    2. Credence2 profile image79
      Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Alright, you win with the exception of the concern stated below:

      "States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting."

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Are  you sure those are discriminatory, or were those rules made for very valid reasons?

        Example: what are the requirements for a Texas concealed weapons permit, in the area of proving identity?  What are the requirements for a student ID?  Is either one easily forged?  How difficult is it to put the wrong name on one?

        Depending on the answers, it may not be discriminatory at all, even if one race, sex, religion, etc. has a greater problem with voting as a result.

        1. Credence2 profile image79
          Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

          OK, Wilderness, I follow your argument, but those rules will need to be proven to have an objective purpose so that our groups are to be satisfied that they are not just conjured up by rightwing politicians to discourage liberal vote groups for political reasons.

          One state or Federal ID should be as good as any other, and if not I need definitive evidence explaining why.

          1. GA Anderson profile image88
            GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            You seem to have a lot of 'needs.' ;-)

            GA

            1. Credence2 profile image79
              Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

              In the face of the rightwing oriented legislatures in many states and their incessant plots, those needs seem pretty valid to me. You don't think that I am just going to trust them to do things on the up and up, do you?

              And yes, we discussed this before and I came to agree with your opinion that picture voter IDs are reasonable. OK, but still.... we will insist..

              Conservatives complained about the security of the vote and the need for state or federal issue picture ID, I was willing to go along. But they cannot tell me now that even that can be sifted without a reason, so now we have to keep the cauldron churning until they come clean.

              I simply don't like the idea of authorities thinking that they can do anything that they want based on sheer caprice. That is not understood well by conservatives.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                That you disagree with the reasons or reasoning of the right does not mean it is "sheer caprice".  Most of it has very valid reasoning, and reasons, behind it.

                1. Credence2 profile image79
                  Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  Fine, the valid reasons need to be shared and evaluated and shown to be based on neutral objective standards and not political ones.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                    They are, you just vilify them because you don't agree with them.

            2. Nathanville profile image93
              Nathanvilleposted 14 months agoin reply to this

              Well yeah GA, what works for one country wouldn’t necessarily work for another country.

              I take your point that (as individuals) the Supreme Court Judges are not going to be apolitical, the same that (as individuals) civil servants are not apolitical.  But as an institution (in the UK) Supreme Court Judges are apolitical, just as the British civil service is apolitical.

              As regards Supreme Court Judges (just as senior civil servants); they are not appointed because of their politics, and because in Britain most prominent people in society keep their politics to themselves when an appointee is made (be it Supreme Court Judge or Senior Civil Servant) politics doesn’t come into it – They are selected on their merits and their suitability for the post.

              Yeah, I can imagine that if the USA tried to emulate the British system that any such selection committee would tend to lean towards a closed shop of ‘scheming’ idiots.  However, in the UK system, those that are on the selection committee for Supreme Court Judges and those who have input into the selection process are wide and far spread (which avoids the risk of a close nit group of scheming idiots) e.g. involves input from all the four nations (England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales) from both Judges, and political leaders from Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland), and must include at least one lay person, such as an Admin worker with no legal qualifications or experience.

              Although the political leaders of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales all have some input, the Scottish Government and the Welsh Government are both Socialist Governments, which helps to balance out any political leanings of the Northern Ireland Government; and under the system the UK Government has no input into the selection process – their role is just to advice the King on who has been selected by the selection committee.

              1. GA Anderson profile image88
                GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                Your explanation seems to illustrate what I meant by you folks not making politics such an issue in the selection process. Unfortunately for us, we have made politics a national sport that usually buggers everything it touches.

                It is probably reasonable to think your selection process is not free of all politics, but it doesn't seem to be as completely driven by them as ours is.

                GA

                1. Nathanville profile image93
                  Nathanvilleposted 14 months agoin reply to this

                  If there is any politics in our legal system its not obvious e.g. all 'rulings' made by the Supreme Court is decided on legal grounds, and the full, and lengthy, transcript of the legal reasons for the decision is always made public.

                  One vital role of the Supreme Court is in the interpretation of the constitution e.g. as Britain has an 'unwritten' constitution it's not always clear what the constitution is, so when the government is challenged on being unconstitutional (which has happened a lot since 2016) it's the Supreme Court that has the final say - almost invariably, finding against the Government - I'm not aware of one decision yet that has gone in the Government's favour.

      2. GA Anderson profile image88
        GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Oh lordy, lordy, Cred. It's about scheming politicians bud, not the issue of ID or no ID.

        GA

        1. Credence2 profile image79
          Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

          I said that I agreed with the jist of your point of view, I just have caveats that I think are reasonable and have a bearing on this discussion.

    3. tsmog profile image84
      tsmogposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      First, I have no problem with an 'appropriate' photo ID to vote in person. And, I have no problem with a state verifying a person's eligibility to vote by mail including signature validation when received.

      As far as the OP, yes, I got a chuckle from it! Seems, the U.S. does not have the sole ownership of political shenanigans, eh?

      To gain perspective it depends on what the government considers an appropriate photo if that is an option. With poking about I see in the UK it is £9.99 ($12.40) for a passport photo and a visa is £14.99 ($18.60). But, a citizen card cost £15 the same as a visa photo. A driver's license is £119 or $163. Seems the citizen card is the best option if it is acceptable for voting.

      A citizen card means about three gallons of gas here in Calif. Personally, a gallon of gas means two weeks of normal everyday life driving. A citizen card would mean 1-1/2 months driving. So, it would depend on one's budget, right? But, is that enough to make the argument he is proposing?

    4. abwilliams profile image69
      abwilliamsposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Aren't the citizens being conditioned {by climate alarmists} to eat bugs? Dig up some juicy worms, locate a solid, working ant hill and Viola` money is freed up for i.d., then it's off to vote for the restoration of sanity. wink

  2. Nathanville profile image93
    Nathanvilleposted 14 months ago

    The cost of the ID Photo isn’t an issue; most people have valid photo IDs anyway e.g. passport, driving licence, and in my case my ‘Free Bus Pass’ which every UK citizen gets when they reach State Retirement Age.

    And voter fraud isn’t the issue either; it’s just a ruse by the Conservative Government e.g. voter fraud is very low in the UK, not high enough to influence any election.

    The real reason for introducing the photo ID is that those most likely to be deterred from voting, for physiological reasons, are those who are least likely to vote Conservative. 

    In practice it will make little or no difference in most constituencies, but in marginal constituencies where whether Conservatives, Labour or Liberal Democrats winning the seat is dependent on less than 100 votes, then it could make a difference in favour of the Conservatives. 

    It’s for the same reason that Scotland and Wales (both Socialist governments) lowered the voting age in Scotland and Wales to 16, because the younger voters are far more likely to vote socialist than conservative.

    1. Nathanville profile image93
      Nathanvilleposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      Having just fact-checked; on the 11th May 2021, when this bill was being debated in Parliament, the UK Government admitted that there had been only 6 cases of ballot fraud in the last General Election in 2019.

    2. GA Anderson profile image88
      GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      That is similar to the Voter ID arguments in the U.S. Same points; political motivation, (seems right to me), and disenfranchisement of some of 'the other party's voters, (also seems right to me).

      Even so, those arguments don't change the reasonableness and value of Voter ID cards.

      GA

      1. Credence2 profile image79
        Credence2posted 14 months agoin reply to this

        It does if one set of state issued ID's are treated differently from another without clear and objective explanations for the difference.

        1. GA Anderson profile image88
          GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          We've had this discussion before. I wasn't reopening the Voter ID thing again, I was poking at political idiots.

          GA

      2. Nathanville profile image93
        Nathanvilleposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Yeah, realistically I can’t see any real issue with photo ID in the UK, especially as you don’t need to get a special photo ID card e.g. valid photo IDs will include passport, driving licence, student card etc. and in my case my ‘Free Bus Pass’ (which everyone over State Retirement 65 gets) – so most people will already have a valid photo ID anyway.

        One query; you mention Voter ID cards, and in looking on the Internet I couldn’t find a clear description on how people register to vote in the USA?

        In the UK the process to register to vote is fairly automatic, as outlined below:-

        1.    In the UK, every October, or six weeks before an Election (if before October), our Local Government posts a form to the head of the household.

        2.    It’s the legal responsibility of the head of the household to put the full name and age (if under 18) of every person living in that household, then for the head of the household to sign the form, and to return the form to the Local Government.

        And that’s it, everyone in the household over the age of 18 is then registered to vote, and 3 weeks before an election each person eligible to vote will receive their own personal ‘voter ID card’ telling them where and when to vote – But you don’t have to take your card with you.  When you turn up at the voting booth you say who you are and they tick you off their list.   The only difference in the future is that they will ask to see a valid photo ID when you vote.

        In the UK, when your local government gets the form back they use it to not only register people to vote but also as a register for jury service e.g. if you are registered to vote then there is always a chance that you may be picked to do jury service.

        As a follow up, if the head of the household doesn’t return the form, they will be sent reminders, and ultimately face a hefty fine of $1,200 for not returning the form.

        These days of course, you now have the option to complete the form electronically on-line.

        When it comes to voting there are provisions for people who can’t physically get to the voting booth e.g. disabled, on holiday or as a university student living away from home.  In these cases, then six weeks before the election you can apply for a postal vote; or if you are a university student then apply to vote in the constituency of your university rather than in your home constituency.

        Is the whole process much different in the USA?

        1. GA Anderson profile image88
          GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

          The specifics of registering to vote may vary but the concepts are essentially the same.

          Folks get voter registration forms when they turn 18. One can also register by checking a box when applying for any state function/service/ID; e.g. driver's license, welfare program application, etc. We also have mail-in balloting.

          My perspective is that voting is the most important privilege a government offers. It should be worth any effort needed to exercise it.

          One old and worn argument that makes sense to me is that folks will make the needed ID efforts to get everything from  'Rewards' cards to cell phones to car rentals, but fight requiring any similar effort to vote for the leaders of a nation.

          GA

          1. Nathanville profile image93
            Nathanvilleposted 14 months agoin reply to this

            Thanks for the feedback/info.

  3. Stephen Tomkinson profile image91
    Stephen Tomkinsonposted 14 months ago

    As a "Brit", I resent the idea that we would go around stealing idiots. We don't need to steal idiots from anyone, British politics has a long and proud tradition of producing first-class idiots of all political persuasions.
    Many of us would be happy to export a variety of idiots to any country that feels that it doesn't have enough - we don't resort to theft - at least not in this field.
    I think an apology is called for. smile

    1. GA Anderson profile image88
      GA Andersonposted 14 months agoin reply to this

      You have it. I forgot that we inherited many of our cultural tendencies. Mea culpa.

      GA

  4. Stephen Tomkinson profile image91
    Stephen Tomkinsonposted 14 months ago

    Accepted, of course. Please feel free to apply to His Majesty's Government should you wish to try out one of our models.

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)