Cure (Remission) for Type 2 Diabetes – Is it Available in Your Country

1. 91

   Nathanvilleposted 17 months ago

   In 2016 a BBC TV Series called “Trust Me, I’m a Doctor” did a small piolet on 10 volunteers with Type 2 Diabetes for the episode, by putting them on a low calorie diet for 8 weeks to see what benefit, if any, it had on their health.  The outcome of the mini-trial was that their diabetes for about half the volunteers went into remission. 
   
   Trust me I'm a Doctor Trailer BBC Two:  https://youtu.be/P1OIt-L-p0Q
   
   The BBC TV episode caught the attention of the NHS, so from early 2017 the NHS did a small study, with similar results; so in 2020 launched a pilot programme to provide a low-calorie diet treatment for people recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, and who were overweight or obese; involving over 4,500 people in the pilot.
   
   Following the success of the pilot, the NHS is now (as from last month) rolling out the treatment nationwide, and will make the treatment available to everyone in Britain with Type 2 diabetes and who are overweight by March 2024.
   
   If this is something that’s of interest to you, you might be interested in the following links:
   
   •        NHS diet programme rolled out to help tackle diabetes https://youtu.be/JYnKsCJml5g
   
   •        Diabetes – NHS Low calorie diet https://youtu.be/CxqYzd24aKo
   
   I’ve placed this post under politics rather than medical because I wonder, from a political aspect, if/whether such treatment will be offered to all Americans under your medical insurance system, or just a selected few who have the top range medical insurance – or whether, as American medical care is so money orientated whether such treatment will be offered at all in the USA?

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      DrMark1961posted 17 months agoin reply to this

      I do not think it has anything to do with the American medical care system. Type 2 diabetes is an increasing issue now because of what people eat, and no matter if physicians realize the problem it is going to continue to be a problem since the food industry is making soda and other foods iwth high calorie high-fructose corn syrup.
      
      The alternatives exist in every country but most people are not willing to accept them. Yes, I do think diabetes and fatty liver disease are going to increase among the poor and not among the rich. I do not think it is because of medical insurance though, it is because of cheap fast food.
      
      (We have government paid health care here in Brazil too but also have fast food everywhere, although not as much as the US and UK, and the obesity epidemic is a real problem here.)

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      1. 91

         Nathanvilleposted 17 months agoin reply to this

         Thanks for your feedback; yes it is a worldwide problem in the developed countries. 
         
         To tackle the issues in the UK, both the Government and the NHS run continued public awareness campaigns to educate, to advise and to help.  And in April 2018, following a campaign by a pressure group lobbying Government, the Government introduced a Sugar Tax on soft drinks; which has had a positive impact.  At the time, most soft drinks manufacturers reduced their sugar content by an average of 29%, except Coco-cola who subsequently suffered significant drops in sales in the UK – So in October 2022 Coca-Cola finally reduced the sugar content in their soft drinks sold in the UK by up to 26%.
         
         The Sugar Tax in the UK is:-
         
         •    18p ($0.23) per litre (2.113 USA pints) on soft drinks containing between 5g (1/8th of an USA ounce) and 8g (just under ¼ of a USA ounce) of sugar per 100ml (0.211 USA pints).
         
         •    24p ($0.30) per litre (2.113 USA pints) on soft drinks containing more than 8g (just under ¼ of a USA ounce) of sugar per 100ml (0.211 USA pints).
         
         Also the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) have imposed ‘Age Restricted Ads’ status on HFSS products e.g. products that are ‘High in Fat, Sugar or Salt’; which means that such adverts cannot be shown on TV until after the watershed (after 9pm).  The full category of food items that are classified as HFSS and therefore banned from being Advertised on British TV before 9pm are:-
         
         •    Soft drinks with added sugar
         •    Juice drinks with added sugar
         •    Milk drinks with added sugar
         •    Crisps and savoury snacks
         •    Breakfast cereal
         •    Chocolate confectionary
         •    Sugar confectionary
         •    Ice cream
         •    Cakes
         •    Sweet biscuits
         •    Morning goods
         •    Pudding and dairy desserts
         •    Yoghurts
         •    Pizza
         •    Chips and potato products
         •    Family meal centres
         •    Ready meals
         •    Breaded and battered products
         •    Main meals (out-of-home)
         •    Starters, sides and small plates (out of home)
         •    Children’s meal bundles (out of home)
         •    Sandwiches (out of home)
         
         N.B.  Out-of-home (OOH) in the UK is food from takeaways, cafés and restaurants, and food delivery services.

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            DrMark1961posted 17 months agoin reply to this

            Wow, those are some great first steps. I would add a few things to the list (like sugar free soft drinks that are sweet and stimulate insulin release and may be responsible for causing the increase in diabetes) but at least it sounds like the UK  legislators are aware of the problem.
            
            It is not the same everywhere. In the US Department of Agriculture encourages the use of processed foods and sugar in their food pyramid and most of the world takes their word as truth. It is not, which can be seen by looking at the increase in obesity rates in the last 40 years.

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            1. 91

               Nathanvilleposted 17 months agoin reply to this

               Yep, absolutely right:  Public Awareness Campaigns in the UK have highlight the increase risk of diabetes from sugar free soft drinks that use sweeteners; that’s why years ago I stopped drinking soft drinks altogether.  Apart from the occasional wine and beer my main fluid intake these days are coffee, apple juice, soda water and ginger beer, and water of course (following comprehensive discussions with two NHS nutritionists back in the summer of 2021).  I’ve always drunk coffee, and it was orange juice that I used to drink, but because of the problems I had with my kidneys a few years ago the NHS advise that Apple Juice is better for my body chemistry than orange juice because orange juice is high in potassium, and I’m advised by the NHS to limit my potassium intake.
               
               I did get the impression that the situation might be a little worse in America than Britain, but my discussion in this forum with Tim has brought it home that it’s a lot worse in America – a real eye-opener.

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                  DrMark1961posted 17 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, I do think things are a lot worse there too. SAD (the standard American diet) is full of sugar, seed oils that are mislabelled as vegetable oils, and ultraprocessed foods. My son lives in California and I am amazed at the food that they eat there on a daily basis.

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   2. 87

      tsmogposted 17 months agoin reply to this

      I did a little wandering with my thoughts . . .
      
      Interesting while I waver how to respond. I am a Type 2 diabetic since about 2003, so twenty years of living with it. The first ten years was a roller coaster for me to control it. The influence of work and my lifestyle with attempts at changing it is what impacted that.The first three years I was able to control it with weight loss, exercise, meal plans, and lifestyle. I was not medicated for it.
      
      The last ten years, not working while more able to change my lifestyle I have much better control. I was able to lower my medication prescription. However, my diabetes has impacted my health; circulation, heart somewhat, and kidney function.
      
      When I read your OP and watched the two videos my first thought was they are aimed at prevention more than anything with a weight loss program. Let me step back a minute. Firstly, diabetes as a term is a blanket and should not be used loosely as each type of diabetes is very much different.Today, there are four types of Diabetes given attention.
      
      Historically, Type 1 and Type 2 have always existed along with gestational diabetes. That is developed when pregnant. Remember with pregnancy there is weight gain. Type 1 is developed early in life as a youth or with birth. They are insulin dependent. Type 2 is known as adult onset. It is controlled with lifestyle; meals focused on carb intake, weight control, and many take oral medication like me.   
      
      Yet, in recent decades Pre-Diabetes has become more prominent. Pre-Diabetes is a serious health condition where blood sugar levels are higher than normal, but not high enough yet to be diagnosed as type 2 diabetes
      
      What is Diabetes? by Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) A short succinct read.
      https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/diabetes.html
      
      In the U.S. 38 million people have diabetes or 11.3% of the population. However, 96 million or 1 out of 3 have pre-diabetes. That diagnosis floated in my mind with the UK info you shared. I pondered if they were who the studies/treatment plans were focused on rather than the for sure people with a Type 1 or type 2 diagnosis.
      
      Yes, diabetes is covered by our insurance plans. And, testing is done more today than yesteryear as a preventive measure. In other words, if you are overweight there is a very good chance they will test your glucose level with an A1C blood test. I do one quarterly for monitoring reasons. (I don't have a weight challenge today)
      
      All About Your A1C by the CDC
      https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/managing/m … r/a1c.html
      
      But, and that is a big But, people have to go see a doctor to begin with. Only 62% of the population get an annual exam. One could suspect the lower the income the propensity of getting an annual exam goes down.
      
      I must mention pre-diabetes is on the rise with the youth today. It is a problem. With adults both pre-diabetes and type 2 are on the rise and some say is somewhat of a crisis. And, 42% of U.S. population is obese. Remember that goes hand in hand with pre-diabetes and diabetes type 2.
      
      As far as the studies/diet programs info in the OP as said to me is more prevention aimed at pre-diabetes to not become type 2. That is an opinion. But, with a early diagnosis of type 2 diet,  weight loss, and exercise means you may not require medication to control it.
      
      The reason I say that is the program is calorie based, which they emphasized in the videos. Lowering the calorie intake does not control blood glucose levels, which is what diabetes is all about. Carbohydrate count does. For a meal it is recommended to be between 45 - 60 carbs and a snack at 20.
      
      Lowering the calorie count leads to lowering one's weight loss, which assists with preventing pre-diabetes becoming type 2 and controlling type 2 from getting worse and perhaps not having to be medicated.
      
      As you know with your NHS being a national entity while ours are private enterprises by doctors or medical groups definitely treatment programs may differ. For instance I have a medical group. They offer educational programs with seminars and the doctor may refer you to a nutritionist. Type 1 more than type 2 may be referred to an endocrinologist with abnormal cases.
      
      However, in Facebook feed there are always magical cures for preventing diabetes, controlling it, or reversing it. I say magical loosely as who knows if they work or not? Not all of them are after your money too.

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         DrMark1961posted 17 months agoin reply to this

         Your post was interesting, especially that last part about Facebook. Over the years I have noticed when there are multiple solutions for a problem it is because none of them work on all of us.
         
         The carnivore diet may be okay but it is not 100%, nor is getting rid of cooking oils, removing processed sugar from your diet, etc. There are things that work, but not consistently for everyone.

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         Nathanvilleposted 17 months agoin reply to this

         Thanks for your comprehensive response. 
         
         For clarity, it is Type 2 Diabetes (for those who are overweight) that the NHS 12 week low calorie diet is for.  As you know, Type 2 diabetes is caused because the pancreas stops making insulin; and the NHS five year study has shown that for about 46% of overweight people with type 2 diabetes who go on their 12 week low calorie diet, the crash course diet actually kick starts the pancreas into start making insulin again – effectively a cure for type 2 diabetes for almost half the patients, provided that they stick to a healthy well balanced diet after the 12 week crash course diet.
         
         If you are diagnosed with pre-diabetes then all your NHS doctor will do is to advise you that you need to lose weight and exercise more; and if you want help with doing that beyond the basic advice your doctor can give, your doctor would be more than willing to arrange an appointment for you with an NHS nutritionist.
         
         Wow, 11.3% of Americans have diabetes, and more than double that have pre-diabetes – that is mind blowing.  In the UK 6% have diabetes, of which about 90% is type 2, and around 9% are pre-diabetic.
         
         And again, wow, 42% of Americans are obese; in the UK it’s 25.9%, with another 37.9% who are overweight but not obese.
         
         Yeah, I am all too familiar with diabetes in that my mother and grandmother had type 2 diabetes, and most of our family and friends have ‘type 2’ diabetes too.  Although I was obese up until last year I was lucky in that all my blood sugar tests always came back ‘normal’.  However, my NHS hospital consultant encouraged me to lose weight to help me lower my blood pressure and cholesterol levels; and prior to that I’d already had a detailed consultation with two separate NHS nutritionists, so I was already mindful to start monitoring my weight anyway. 
         
         The reason my NHS Hospital Consultant suggested focusing on weight loss is because he’d been my consultant for the previous 18 months following me being rushed to hospital in an ambulance 2021 in, and spending three weeks in hospital because of kidney issues – And after 18 months of regular check-ups, and in making a near full recovery, it reached a point where the NHS Hospital Consultant should really be discharging me – but in noticing from my medical records that I’m one of those people who don’t see their doctor unless absolutely necessary he thought he would keep me on his books for a little longer – but as I am in full health, other than being a little overweight and the cholesterol levels being a little high he thought that he could keep me on his books for another 18 months if we focused on my weight.
         
         So, with his encouragement, I’ve been diligently weighing myself once a week, and tweaking my diet accordingly so as to loose slowly, while maintaining a healthy, well balanced diet; and by doing so I’ve lost 10kgs (22 lbs) in the last 12 months, so that I am no longer obese – and I intend to lose another 10kgs (22 lbs) so that I reach my target (healthy) weight.
         It’s good to hear that diabetes is covered by your insurance plans; that is reassuring.
         
         Where you state that only 62% of the population in America get an annual exam; I had to ponder on how to relate (compare) that to the NHS, because in Britain you can see your doctor whenever you want, for whatever reason (even if its trivial), and it’s a free service – so in the UK it’s less of an annual check-up and more of a case of how frequently people see their doctor:-
         
         In the UK 24% of the population visit their doctor 3 or more times a year; while only 14% hardly ever bother going to the doctor – I was part of that 14% for most of my life; but when I reached age 55 it’s the NHS policy to offer everyone over the age of 55 a full medical check-up at least once every 5 years; and if they find anything untoward then it may mean more frequent visits.  Also, from age 60 they start testing you for various cancers once every two years, plus they offer an AAA scan to everyone when they reach 65; and currently, although I’ve made a near full recovery from when I was in hospital, and my NHS Hospital Consultant has been seeing me regularly for the past couple of years, my doctor has now decided to call me in for annual routine check-ups anyway.
         
         Yeah, I would never trust any Facebook feeds; if I want advice (short of seeing a doctor) the NHS has an excellent phone line (phone number 111) and a great website that covers detailed information, advice and treatment for just about any illness you can imagine.
         
         The NHS website: https://youtu.be/PDQ0zWH0R24
         NHS 111 service: https://youtu.be/EL8jvOtmGDI

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            tsmogposted 17 months agoin reply to this

            Wow! Interesting! I like the how the NHS goes about preventative medicine. Like I shared, here, the medical industry is private enterprise either a doctor or medical group. Each will approach preventative medicine differently, yet will follow hopefully closely the recommended guidelines made by the American Medical Association (AMA) and the CDC. And, of course, their personal mission for even being in the medical field with their many years of education, training, and medical practice.
            
            As an aside I would double check the info saying Type 2 diabetes is because the pancreas stops making insulin. It is because the cells become resistant to insulin. The cells need insulin to introduce the blood glucose into them. In other words, insulin is unable to open the door to the cell for glucose to get in. And, they don't know why that happens.
            
            From the Centers of Disease and Control (CDC) is this quote:
            
            "What Causes Type 2 Diabetes?
            Insulin is a hormone made by your pancreas that acts like a key to let blood sugar into the cells in your body for use as energy. If you have type 2 diabetes, cells don’t respond normally to insulin; this is called insulin resistance. Your pancreas makes more insulin to try to get cells to respond. Eventually your pancreas can’t keep up, and your blood sugar rises, setting the stage for prediabetes and type 2 diabetes. High blood sugar is damaging to the body and can cause other serious health problems, such as heart disease,  vision loss, and kidney disease."
            [utl]https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/basics/type2.html[/url]
            
            Me too! I didn't start to do annual check-ups until I was headed to forty. I did not have health insurance until I was I thirty. Otherwise I felt I was as healthy as a horse while filled with machismo or I was manly.
            
            A short testimony to at least my medical group. Since Dec 7 2021 I have had 134 different types of medical appointments. Those were from blood tests galore, diagnostic procedure like sonograms, CT scans, a colonoscopy, and a biopsy of my prostate. (More on that later)
            
            Plus my primary care doctor appointments combined with specialists. I had a Mohs surgery on a growth on my ear with follow-ups. I was diagnosed with kidney stuff because I had high potassium levels and low sodium levels. And, the biggie, June 2022 I was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer.
            
            I had radiation therapy with hormone therapy shots every three months through the end of this year. I had 28 sessions of radiation therapy five days a week ending Jan 30 this year. I will have follow-ups with a blood test every four months for five years with my radiation oncologist. If everything goes well for five years, then I am considered cured otherwise I am in remission.
            
            I meet with my primary care doctor quarterly with three different blood tests. I see my kidney doctor annually with blood tests for potassium and sodium levels quarterly, annually I meet with my opthalmologist for a diabetes of the eyes exam, and my dermatologist. Plus, Wed this week I have cataract surgery on my right eye with a follow-up on Thur. I had the left eye done almost three years ago. 
            
            The bottom line is I have great confidence in my primary care doctor, the specialist, the technicians, and the nurses or the medical group itself!! They either did/do due diligence or I was a cash cow. I very much feel the former!!!
            
            
            
            One thing for sure it has been an educational adventure with Google University handy. I am acquainted with everything I experienced. I am very fortunate to have medical insurance through Medicare, Part C, for those over 65. Yet, I did have co-pays along the way. Again, I was fortunate as I qualified for financial help through the medical group eliminating my co-pays.

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               Nathanvilleposted 17 months agoin reply to this

               I have to start preparing the evening meal shortly, and  I’m out tomorrow (trip to the city centre for banking and shopping in preparation for our next holiday (vacation) later this week – So, I’ll just make a quick comment now, and a fuller response later in the week.
               
               What Causes Type 2 Diabetes is an interesting point?  Wikipedia essentially agrees with what the CDC says.  However, the NHS gives two causes for diabetes type 2; cause 1, as you describe; and cause 2, because there’s not enough insulin to move the glucose e.g. the pancreas stops producing insulin. 
               
               If the NHS observation is correct, it would help to explain why the NHS treatment is effective in only 46% of cases!  The fact that after 5 years of study the NHS can help 46% of people to put their diabetes type 2 into remission might be an indication that the NHS are onto something interesting?  I guess more research is required by medical facilities around the world to get a clearer picture? – Although that will take time.
               
               To quote from the NHS “if you have diabetes, your body is unable to break down glucose into energy. This is because there's either not enough insulin to move the glucose, or the insulin produced does not work properly.”

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            2. 91

               Nathanvilleposted 17 months agoin reply to this

               Doctor Michael Mosley is a popular and well known journalist, producer, presenter who now works for the BBC, who was originally an NHS Doctor. 
               
               He’s the presenter of ‘Trust Me, I’m a Doctor’ on BBC, and he is the one who conducted the experiment in his TV programme, after contracting Diabetes type 2 himself; and after curing himself of it so that his blood sugars are now back to normal without the need for any medication.
               
               Below is the video of his personal experience with diabetes type 2:  https://youtu.be/pJG7-ELhV5Y

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            3. 91

               Nathanvilleposted 17 months agoin reply to this

               I’ve got about an hour spare before I need to make my banking trip to the city centre prior to our holiday (vacation) at the end of week; so just enough time to respond to your post:
               
               The NHS philosophy is “Prevention is better than Cure” on the basis that keeping people healthy (keeps them out of hospital) saves money (tax payer’s money) in the long run e.g. there is no incentive to treat people needlessly, for the sake of treating people, because the hospitals belong to the Government and the doctors are paid a salary by the Government.
               
               I appreciate that in America the medical “the medical industry is private enterprise either a doctor or medical group” does that mean that it’s difficult to switch between doctors/groups?  In Britain, as the NHS is national you choose which doctors practice (called a surgery) you want to register with, and if you don’t like your doctors practice (for whatever reason) you can just register with another NHS doctor e.g. we have three NHS doctors’ practices to choose from, within walking distance from where we live – and of course if you are on holiday and need to see a doctor you can just take a trip to the nearest NHS Hospital A&E (Accident and Emergency) Department.
               
               With the advancement in technology, last year the NHS medical database was centralised and went on-line:  The benefits of that is that I can now look at my own personal medical records using my smart phone; and it doesn’t matter what doctor or Hospital I go to, anywhere in the country, they can instantly access my medical records on-line.
               
               Access your NHS GP medical records https://youtu.be/3Hekk5jTidA
               
               Wow - 134 different types of medical appointments since the end of 2021 - that does sound a lot of appointments.   I’ve lost count of how many appoints I’ve had since 2021, not as much, but certainly a good few dozen, and like you since 2021 I’ve had numerous tests and scans etc., including three MRI scans, two ECG’s, chest x-ray, various ultrasound scans and countless blood tests to test for everything imaginable:  Fortunately, since my recovery from hospital all the scans and tests have come back negative – which is reassuring.
               
               It’s interesting that you mention the high potassium levels with your kidney’s; following my kidney problems, and on my appointments with NHS nutritionists, I’ve switched from drinking orange juice to apple juice on NHS advice, because orange juice is high in potassium.
               
               I’ve got my last appointment with my kidney doctor at the end of the year; and if the tests come back healthy, as they have done over the past 18 months, then he will be able to discharge me.
               
               It’s reassuring to hear that you do have great confidence in primary care doctor and the medical group; and it’s good to hear that you no longer have to pay for co-pays.
               
               As regards to the cause(s) of Type 2 Diabetes, which I briefly covered in a previous post to this question; this short video gives the UK’s perspective on the subject:  https://youtu.be/_Q_R9TFaboo

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            4. 91

               Nathanvilleposted 17 months agoin reply to this

               In the news (in the UK) today:-
               
               First UK baby with DNA from three people born after new IVF procedure:  https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 … -procedure
               
               The NHS has a comprehensive medical encyclopaedia on their website which I find very informative, and very useful. 
               
               I don’t know if the website works on your side of the pond, or whether it’s blocked; it would be interesting to know whether you can access this website or not?  Link Below:
               
               https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/

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